Dreadball Kickstarter up and running.

[energongoodie]

The 'Dreadball' Kickstarter campaign is up and running. I've jumped in straight away. I think it's gonna be massive and I love it when a stretch goal is unlocked.

I am a massive Blood Bowl fan and am not looking at this as a replacement, just a new game that happens to be similar in it's concept.

How about you guys?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dreadball-the-futuristic-sports-game



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http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2416&d=1345816392

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I like it, but is it just me or do those helmets look similar to something.....

[eldargal]

Hmmm...

Great concept, nice models which is refreshing from Mantic, but I think they might bump into pledge fatigue with Reaper Bones and Relic Knights ending in the next few weeks.

Also, I'd be much, much more likely to pledge if there were a female team or at least the option to have female players. I see there is female star player planned but that doesn't really do it for me personally.

[Wolfshade]

This looks cool, my mates and I tried to come up with Blood Bowl 40k when we were back in school, there were some issues around the cost of players ...

[energongoodie]

Also, I'd be much, much more likely to pledge if there were a female team or at least the option to have female players. I see there is female star player planned but that doesn't really do it for me personally.

There is a robot female ref? Does that count?
2 hours in and they've got their 20k.

http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/1---Referee.jpg

[eldargal]

It's a start.:)

Another thing concerns me. Are the extra two teams added to hthe boxed set or not? If so, like th referee is, then the value of the basic 80 pledge increases. If not, the 80 pledge is really overpriced. But if they are added, then what is the point of the 150 pledge? 70 more for two star players, some digital books and your name in the supporters list? Not good value, not clearly set out.

[wittdooley]

The extra two teams are ONLY in the 150 pledge. Which, IMO, makes it vastly overpriced.

[eldargal]

Yep, if that is the case I won't be pledging. 17 miniatures for 80 is frankly absurd right when Reaper are offering 200+ for one hundred and Dark Vengeance will be coming out with 60 odd for a similar price. 33 or so for 150 isn't any better. The sculpts aren't that nice either. Even taking into account that this is a board game, Sedition Wars provided 51 lovely miniatures for 100.

If they don't re-think this approach I think they will stall at after a few days and see a very dissapointing end to the project (though it will of course get a boost in the last few days as they all do).

[energongoodie]

I completely agree that the pledge pricing structure seems a bit odd.

I went for $150. So I am paying $50 extra for 2 teams, which I think we can assume will be $20 each like the others, and an apparent $10 for a digital copy of 'Creating Dreadball'.

I am hoping that it will make sense when more stuff is unlocked and hopefully the $150 pledge mark will have some significance in what extras you get. If not it is a bit bobbins as I am not bothered about a digital book, I just wanted the 2 extra teams.

[eldargal]

Maybe, but for it to make sense surely some things need to be added to the basic box to increase its value. But if not the other two teams, then what? It can't be the star players as they are already bonuses for the 150 mark. It just seems silly.

[wittdooley]

Maybe, but for it to make sense surely some things need to be added to the basic box to increase its value. But if not the other two teams, then what? It can't be the star players as they are already bonuses for the 150 mark. It just seems silly.

The problem happens when you compare this $80 value to what you get from established board game companies at the $80 price point.

That's part of the reason I think Privateer's Sector 7 is going to absolutely bomb. I played it at GenCon, and the mechanics are actually pretty cool, but it's $70 doesn't come with any miniatures, and doesn't come with a ton of "stuff" in the box.

[eldargal]

Mantic posted this on the KS comments:

At the moment, the two extra teams are only available to backers at the Striker level (who will be getting them anyway, regardless of how far we get). Once we get far enough, we will be able to look at new ways of producing the teams and they will then be available as add-on purchases to everyone. On top of that, there will of course be free bonus miniatures for the people who've helped us get there! We will be announcing the totals for each goal as we hit the previous one, so when $40,000 comes around you'll know more!
So, my incentive to pledge now vs wait for retail/discounted retail is, what, exactly?

I think this is a huge mistake. There will be a lot of people looking at Reaper Bones over its last 30 hours and looking at this, and I' be very surprised if many of them don't just decide to go with Bones for simple value for money. Then you have Relic Knights ending in two weeks which isn't that much higher than Dreadball in terms of price per miniature and they are larger and generall nicer sculpts too. Certainly more varied.

Prices per model:
Reaper: 47c approx/ 220+@100 investment
Relic Knights: 5.50 9@50 investment
Dreadball: 5 16@80 investment

[energongoodie]

If I may say, I think that the market for the kickstarters you mention could be seen as different.

The Reaper Bones kickstarter is undoubtedly great in the sense of the amount of miniatures you get. However, I was at no point tempted or interested in those miniatures. Fantasy stuff just isn't really my bag baby. I will not pledge.

The Relic Knights has had me umming and arring. I already have the one shot relic knight. I like the other Black diamond stuff and the girls on bikes, but I think I will have a devil of a time getting someone to play with me. So I may or may not pledge.

I think the nature of this game will appeal to a certain someone who will not see it as a choice between these other kickstarter campaings, they will just see it as a new complete board game that's ready to rumble.

Lets wait and see what the extras turn out to be before we pass judgement. I am hopeful.

[eldargal]

It's true there isn't complete overlap between the target audiences, but even if you take scifi board games Sedition Wars offered 50 miniatures at 100 in the basic game box and the stretch goal added something like 30 more.

I see Dreadball and I just do not see anything approaching value for money. For 80 I would want the prospect of all four teams being included in the set, with the 150 option getting starplayers and another things as well. To make it worse there is little prospect of the initial deal sweetening that much as they have said the teams will be optional add-ons and everything else they could add, like better quality counters and hte like, really aren't a big draw.

Personally I'd have had the two extra teams added to 80 and 150, then had two more teams ready to go which would be added at 150 or as optional add-ons to 80.

[wittdooley]

Personally I'd have had the two extra teams added to 80 and 150, then had two more teams ready to go which would be added at 150 or as optional add-ons to 80.

Yeup. Can't believe they're going this route. But then again I've never run a kickstarter.

And as far as your comparisons go, I can tell you the Relic Knight minis are 4 or 5 TIMES as nice as the Mantic ones ;)

[Gotthammer]

Yep, if that is the case I won't be pledging. 17 miniatures for 80 is frankly absurd right when Reaper are offering 200+ for one hundred and Dark Vengeance will be coming out with 60 odd for a similar price. 33 or so for 150 isn't any better. The sculpts aren't that nice either. Even taking into account that this is a board game, Sedition Wars provided 51 lovely miniatures for 100.

I think you're being a little harsh here. Those other Kickstarters only reached that number of minis after they'd started and gotten a crapton of cash to enable the mass production - they initial mini to dollar ration was much lower. GW also already has the capital and business model to mass produce and potentially loss-lead on Dark Vengeance.

That said, the way Dreadball has been set up leaves a bit to be desired and the price breaks are quite odd.


I've had a few thoughts on this kickstarter trend in minis of late and your quote above really helped crystalise some of them. Will have to find time to write it up now...

[eldargal]

Fair point about Dark Vengeance, but Sedition Wars 100 set still started with at least two dozen miniatures I'm fairly sure and Reapers started with 67. I don't recall what some of the other like Zombicide started with. I don't mean to be harsh but my first thought at looking this was 'wow, this is really impressive' but then looking at the prices it turned to 'oh, another Mantic dissapointment'. Bear in mind I'm basing this on the assumption the basic 80 set won't be getting more teams so the miniature ratio isn't likely to increase much.

Edit: Ok so the first stretch goal was reached and the third (60k) is two extra team members for each team added to each set, bringing the total to 20 miniatures. That is na improvement but given thatyou want people pledging as early as possible to build momentum I really don't think it is enough.

[energongoodie]

They have stated in an e-mail I got today that one of the forth coming teams is all female, in case that peaks your interest.

[eldargal]

So long as it isn't female Vermeeyn or whatever they are called I'm all for it.:)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

O_O

Female rats? *shudders*

[TSINI]

Thank Guys, no really THANKS!! I thought I was all set with SDE, Zombicide, Sedition Wars and Relic Knights, but they you just haad to point me at this one didn't you.

The internet is bad for my wallet....

but great for my HOBBY!! woop woop!

[Gotthammer]

Fair point about Dark Vengeance, but Sedition Wars 100 set still started with at least two dozen miniatures I'm fairly sure and Reapers started with 67. I don't recall what some of the other like Zombicide started with. I don't mean to be harsh but my first thought at looking this was 'wow, this is really impressive' but then looking at the prices it turned to 'oh, another Mantic dissapointment'. Bear in mind I'm basing this on the assumption the basic 80 set won't be getting more teams so the miniature ratio isn't likely to increase much.

Edit: Ok so the first stretch goal was reached and the third (60k) is two extra team members for each team added to each set, bringing the total to 20 miniatures. That is na improvement but given thatyou want people pledging as early as possible to build momentum I really don't think it is enough.



I totally agree that compared to other Kickstarters it isn't as good value. But I'm not sure we should be comparing it to other Kickstarters, but to 'normal' minis. I posted a much longer, much more rambling series of thoughts here (http://collegiatitanica.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/kickstarters-good-or-bad-for-hobby.html).

[eldargal]

From Mantic on the KS comments:

@ Insane_prophet - there are no plans to offer the board or cards separately yet (though we do have something really cool coming up regarding the board ;) ) but there will be a separate counter pack in acrylic available soon.

@ Boris - it is a female corporation team and you'll be able to mix them in with the male corp models.

Anyway, we've still got to get the Forge Fathers and the Veer-myn out yet!
Ok, so firstly, another yay for a female team. If that is available as a cheap addition I might pledge yet.

Now to address the bolded bit, if they upgrade the board to be a more scifi, high tech arena thing perhaps even a proper terrain piece I will be all over this. This is just rampant wishlisting. But the current disco field doesn't do much for me.

Gotthammer, that is a very well thought out article. But I will say this regarding my comments about the number of miniatures, it isn't just that they are few in number (I'm pledging to Relic Knights for only twenty for 100) it is that they aren't particularly interesting. Not at all bad, but compared to the strong and varied aesthetics of Relic Knights and the vast variety of Reaper, Sedition Wars and KoW it just feels a little lacklustre not just because of the basic cost per model.

I think people getting accustomed to cheap miniatures as per Reaper Bones is a problem which is why I am hoping it is, at most, a yearly thing. But when you consider they ship out nearly two million miniatures a year I think it is a safe bet to say that much of their customerbase weren't involved in the KS and there will be plenty of people buying miniatures from them still. It is actually quite good really, the KS pays for the moulds so even if they don't sell exceptionally better after general release they won't be losing money, but still saving money on metal prices.

[Gotthammer]

Thanks for the kind words - it's something I've been ruminating on for a while now :)

Oh yes, I understand your particular issue, but you provided a nice succinct soundbyte to use ;) I also agree that they're not very thrilling minis either. The designs could work with more dynamic poses, or the same poses with more intense designs.

Part of the reason I skipped Bones was because I owned prettymuch all the minis initially on offer, and the lower quality was a turn off for the rest. I wonder if everyone realises they're going to be slightly lower quality than most wargaming plastics?

[eldargal]

I wouldn't say lower quality, the Bones model I bought to check is just as detailed as the metal and nigh indestructible. I will admit the extra flexibility is a little offputting at first.

Well the two extra players are a move in the right direction, and a female corporation team will do a lot for variety, to be fair. But I still worry about the health of the KS, relying on stretch goals to make the initial buy in economical doesn't seem a particularly sound approach.

[TSINI]

Some of the upper pledges come with special etched acrylic gameboards, i wonder if a halfway house could be an option in the future...

[eldargal]

Replacing a psot lost in the post loss thing:

Midgard Delvers revealed:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/3---Midgard-Delvers.jpg

Skittersneak Stealers revealed:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/4--Skittersneak-Stealers.jpg

[energongoodie]

Striker level is finally getting more stuff than Jack. A couple more players and some counters. There is also a ticket for a mantic dreadball event. That would appeal to me due to my lack of gaming chums.

[eldargal]

Female MVP Wildcard revealed:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/5---Wildcard.jpg
The pose is just to give the sculptor as much to work on as possible, she will be in a dynamic action pose when sculpted apparently. I just hope they manage to pull off a decent sculpt, their females to date have been abysmal.

[eldargal]

110k met, so another team expansion for Striker, which nets you this:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/Contents-Table-Striker-110.jpg
Have to admit it is looking a little more tempting all laid out like that.:rolleyes: They just need to get some of those alternate poses sculpted.

[billytwix]

Ive been keeping an eye on this one. the current value for striker doesnt wow me. If it leaves more to be desired im going to wait for retail. Being able to play two human teams against themselves is cool but id like the extras to be a bit more appealing. Still 30 days to go. So we'll see.

If they do the acrylic pitch and bases then ill be a bit more interested...

[eldargal]

I have to agree, it's a decent amount of stuff but for ten less you can get Jack and pay 20each for the extra teams. It is improving though, I believe Mantic said there were more Striker only things in the pipeline.

There is also this acrylic game board as a buy in, 80 I think:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/Hex-Board-Complete.jpg
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/Hex-Board.jpg
No interest in it myself, I'd much rather have a terrain piece with hex patterns marked on, if it were nice enough I'd happily pay 100 or more for it.

[eldargal]

John Doe unlocked:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/11---John-Doe.jpg

140k stretch goal reveled, hex bases:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/8---hex-bases.jpg

155k stretch goal revealed, MVP Number 88:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/7---Number-88.jpg

Striker apparently gets all the MVPs included and a free spur of hex bases which makes it a better deal than I had realised.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Cthulhu Rugby? What is this?

[Black Nexus]

No interest in it myself, I'd much rather have a terrain piece with hex patterns marked on, if it were nice enough I'd happily pay 100 or more for it.

What kind of terrain piece?

Through the $140K as well and they doubled up on the promise of how many bases were included which I approve of.


cthulhu rugby

Haha, it's an alien guard that entangles it's target rather than slams it. Some cool background on the website:

http://www.dreadball.com/Johndoe.html

[eldargal]

Some kind of scifi plastic playfield, to make it less like a board game and more like a representation of SpaceFootball. Like a Bloodbowl arena.

[wittdooley]

You know, I keep looking at it, and nothing about this has me impressed. I'm ambivalent about the sculpts (though I certainly think the Cthulu one is very, very stupid) and--and maybe I'm just overcritical--I really dont like the game designers steadfast refusal that the game is anything similar to Blood Bowl.

Yeah...I just have no interest :-/. I'll keep my fingers crossed that a good GW boxed set game will be coming out for its 25th Anniversary this year.

[eldargal]

Female team concept, if they can pull off some decent sculpts I might pledge for them:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/DreadBall-Female-Conceptv1-WIP.jpg

[Black Nexus]

Female team concept, if they can pull off some decent sculpts I might pledge for them:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/DreadBall-Female-Conceptv1-WIP.jpg

should happen, sculptors are pretty good. i know I'm upping my pledge.

[eldargal]

I wish I shared your confidence, while I agree that the Dreadball sclpts are rather nice, Mantics few (two?) female sculpts to date are really apalling.

[Black Nexus]

agreed. I think those (the female necromancer and the Elf Mage queen right?) are pre-Remy who did the DreadBall teams, Veer-myn, Enforcers and Corporation so I can see these being much better. time will tell i guess, but at least we can have an impact of them through pledging on kickstarter because from what I've seen they really listen to feedback.

[eldargal]

I just hope they get the sculpts or WIPs of them ready to show before the end of the KS, I want to see them before I pledge for them. Also the female team is coming when they hit 175 according to the latest update.

[Black Nexus]

sounds sensible, i want to see the updated concept art and the gameplay video

[Deadlift]

The thing with all of Mantics lines of models, they just don't seem to offer anything we haven't seen before. Nothing new and nothing really original. Space Rats just look like skaven, forgefathers (i actually don't mind these) are obviously there to grab the squat fans and everything else just seems a bit stale.

I dont want to compare them to GW but its obvious just by the models alone thats what mantic are aiming for. This dread ball is a fine example of doing something already done but admittedly with a twist. For me though the twist is not enough.

I understand the actual gameplay of dreadball has had some good reviews, but I prefer to paint so this makes little to no odds to me anyway. I especially don't like seeing repeated sculpts as is seen in all the teams. Alessio Cavatores time at GW is all too prevalent and he needs to do something a bit more original.

[Black Nexus]

alessio has nothing to do with DreadBall or the models though

[Deadlift]

well its obvious where they get their inspiration from

[eldargal]

Dreadball has hit 200k unlocking 'Season 2' or something, with more teams and MVPs on the way. Including Wyn Greth'zki:
http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/Image/DreadBall%20Kickstarter/12---Wyn-Greth-zki.jpg
Woo, Geth! Now if Dreadball makes an Asari style team I will pledge for EVERYTHING.

[lattd]

So they got bored of copying GW and now copying EA.....

[eldargal]

Save the complaints for if they don't make an Asari lookalike team.:p

[lattd]

I wouldn't mind as the artwork is great, but i always find there models only half as good, must be very frustrating for the artists. Even the name shows how blatant the inspiration is, I don't mind companies who take inspiration and make it unique but when you just copy and paste...

[Black Nexus]

it's a homage character like sedition wars did with Riddick firefly and whatsit form BGalatica.

Whereas they're now doing alien and bug concepts as well as a BIG update to the pledge levels as the next stretch goal...

With just over two weeks left to go we’re now approaching the quarter of a million dollars mark – a truly exceptional amount. With that in mind we really wanted to say thank you, so we’ve put together two new stretch goals…

$242,500 – Mee-kel Judwan, Superstar Sportsman – Season 2 MVP
What is there to say about this Superstar Sportsman other than if we hit this goal, we’ll sculpt him and include him free with Jack and Striker!
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Mee-Kel Judwan - Cool, calm and collected!

$250,000 – Full Roster
This is a truly monumental milestone and we’re going to take this opportunity to upgrade your rewards with loads more figures. If we hit this goal, we will do the following…

1) At Guard ($30) – in addition to the digital copy of the Season 2 rules already included, we will add the Season 2 teams to the list of what you can pick from and add a free MVP to every team chosen at this level.

2) At Keeper ($80) – we will complete your team roster and add in eight models, making for a total of 14 Corporation and 14 Marauders! We will also add a DreadBall Decal sheet with four sets of numbers 1-14 in four different fonts, making Keeper worth over $120.

3) At Jack ($100) – In addition to all of the extras included in Jack, we will add in nine models – 4 Corporation Players and 4 Marauder Players to complete your team rosters, as well as 1 Female Corporation Player (so eventually you'll get one of every player from Season 2!). Couple this with all of the MVPs you've got and you’ll be spoilt for choice as to what you actually play with in your team! We’ll also add the decal sheet, making Jack worth around $200.

4) At Striker! ($150) – We will complete the rosters of all four teams, adding in twelve new models – 2 Corporation, 2 Marauders, 4 Veer-myn and 4 Forge Fathers – and a decal sheet to make Striker! worth over $300!

Once we've completed your team rosters, we’ll do the Z’zor (where you’ll get one Z’zor in Jack, two in Striker and we’ll make the team available as part of the Buy One Get One Free!)

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Please help us spread the word - the more backers that support us now, the quicker we can add more free models in!

[eldargal]

So long as they make a homage team of Asari I'm all for it.

[Black Nexus]

that'd be nice i could go for a Samara!

$250,000 got hit today and now the Z'zor are up.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dreadball-the-futuristic-sports-game/posts/309471

[wittdooley]

So I keep wanting to be interested in this, but nothing is selling me. The gameplay video they posted seemed a bit uninspired....

[Black Nexus]

Try the downloadable rules :

http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e62f0c35454fa3ba687404d69/files/DreadBall_Core_Rules.1.pdf?utm_source=Mantic+Games +Newsletter&utm_campaign=30af116faf-Mantic_Games_Newsletter_DreadBall_8&utm_medium=email

gameplay video was a stripped down version anyway.

[Black Nexus]

No action in a while?

currently $383K and there's been a limit restriction on Jack and Striker to ensure that stock is allocated to those who want it pre-Christmas, suggesting they're about to sell through their first print run...

Since last post was put up Z'zor team, Z'zor MVP, Robot Team, Robot MVP, BatElf (NIghtshade), Helder, Season 2 Keepers, and Coach Renton have all been hit and they're now funding Forge Father alt sculpts and a new MVP with hints of an asterian team and MVp around the corner...

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[energongoodie]

I'm loving this guy.
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http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=2879&d=1348592825

[eldargal]

Yep, would make a decent Atlas mech fo my MassEffect miniatures too. Not identical but similar.

[Gotthammer]

So just like all Mantic's stuff then. It's pretty terrible that I'm only interested in their stuff if it's like something else, rather than being cool in its own right.

[billytwix]

Less than 74 striker package level offers left. The pre christmas guaranteed delivery ones. 150$ lots of goodies. Im ok with similarities.

[Black Nexus]

I think it's cool in it's own right and the Asterian MVP is sweet too...

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[wittdooley]

Keep trying to be interested. But there's just nothing about this that draws me in miniatures wise. In other news, it looks like Penny Arcade is slapping their names on this too. Still doesn't do it for me.

[Black Nexus]

New team up...

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From their appearance it would seem that these close relatives of the famous MVP John Doe are, in fact, several related races rather than one. Or, if not that, several races that come from the same planet. Apart from the tentacles, the biggest clue is the similarly unintelligible babbling screeches and clicks which pass for language and which defy even the most advanced computerised interpretation. Luckily, a few Argolian specialists (of the 4th Grade and above) can understand enough of this speech to act as go-betweens, which is how the Corporation learned of their passionate enthusiasm for DreadBall.

The first of these teams was simply called the Nameless, and it’s a term that often gets used as a catch-all term for all three races. Other team names focus on their suspected origins, or their many tentacles.

Kickstarter Update: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dreadball-the-futuristic-sports-game/posts/317263

[billytwix]

4 hours or so to go. They are in the third season level of funding. That means they have 4 teams / season. Te third includes some planet of the apes guys and some koopa style dinos in armor. I was concerned i wouldnt be getting my moneys worth at first. But compared with buying things later i feel confident about the game.

[energongoodie]

The Striker section of my pledge just got delivered. AKA the game and a bunch of extra figures. :D
Stay tuned.