War Walkers versus Vypers

[Defenestratus]

I'm trying to give some older units that have layers of dust caked on new life. In 6th, one of the units that I really want to use is the Vyper. With the changes to fast skimmers, these guys can go back to moving 12" and shooting two heavy weapons.

Dual cannon vypers x3 = 180 pts
Dual Scatter Lasers WW x3 = 180 pts

From the vyper perspective:

Cons - 6 less shots. No outflanking, No scout moves. Open topped (IIRC), less range
Pros - Much Much more mobile. JINK SAVE.

Has anyone given the ole Vypers the college try in 6th? How are they doing? I was thinking of making a Str 6 saturation fire list where I'd use both of these units. Just need to figure out of they're worth taking. Perhaps I should compare them against warp spiders since they share the same FOC.

[DrLove42]

I'll be honest, I haven't taken Vypers or WW since Hornets came out. All the speed and BS4?

Am i just fogetting or can only one vyper in 3 change to a underlsung cannon? Or am I mixing that up with Jetbikes?

If you can take both, I feel Vypers might offer a good choice. Their speed can make up for lack of outflanking and scout moves, the 5+ cover save is great, and just improves with Night fighting. You may lose shots, but you gain AP5 shots instead of AP6. Which doesn't make a huge difference, but DE Warriors, Guardians etc will notice it.

But as BS3, those 6 shots might be critical.

3 WW - 2SL - 24 shots - BS3 - 12 hits.
3 Vyp - 1 SL, 1 SC - 21 shots - 10 hits
3 Vyp - 2 SC - 18 shots - 9 hits.

[Defenestratus]

Hornets are just so expensive points wise. Coming naked , a squad of three of them are just shy of 200 points.

[DrLove42]

3 Hornets are 65 *3 = 195pts. 15 more than 3 equivilent Vypers and get scout, aren't open topped, are AV11, are BS4 and can move fast and fire everything.

I use 3 individual hornets in the 3 slots (don't use much else in FA) with 2 Scatters each. Come in at 85 points a pop. They either outflank, or spilt up during deployment, one in the middle as a firebase 1 on each flank. Or sometimes if they've deployed all one side they race down the opposing flank and pound at them

[Autarch]

While I love the idea of Vypers in a cinematic sense, and I love the models as well they just aren't worth it in my experience. Perhaps if they had a jetbike move in the assault phase, but when using scatter lasers, and shuriken cannons they are right in the enemy wheelhouse in terms of range. I've made a case for using x3 EML Vypers (if guard can survive on BS 3 so can we), elsewhere on the net, but I think its a suicide run when you get within 36-24 inches.

I'd go with War Walkers.

[Anggul]

I would really just wait for the new codex. Vypers are just bad, like so many things in our current codex.

I, however, don't like Hornets, because instead of making up an entirely new and pointless unit, they should have just written updated rules for the Vyper. Fluff-wise they perform exactly the same role, so why would the Hornet ever exist? Also Vypers look alot better in my opinion.

At a stretch, you could always just use the Hornet rules for Vypers if people are okay with it.

[will44]

can someone tell my WHY the Eldar engineers put a magnetic field around the War Walker's cockpit, and then they looked at their Vypers, which fly super fast with a gunner hanging off the side like Mitt Romney's pet, and decided "safe enough?"

These are the things that make me cry when I look at my Eldar Codex.

These hornets sound awesome. Oh forgeworld, I hope we can buy your stuff easily in stores soon.

Also, I think the War Walkers are still the more viable option but I too hope that one day the Vyper becomes a viable model.

[CouchViking]

It's an apple vs orange argument, their two completly different units. Vypers being a harassment unit designed to make your opponent their way. While warwalkers are supposed to unleash punishing salvos of str6 fire to reduce your opponents units number. It's a poor comparison I've used both and with great effectivness when used how they were designed.

[Chronowraith]

Both War Walkers and Vypers are viable. They fulfill separate roles on the tabletop with vypers being used to pick off small units and harass flanks at maximum range and War Walkers go after harder targets where weight of fire is important.

Also, at present, War Walkers are the best anti-flyer unit we have in the normal codex simply due to the amount of shots they throw out.

As for the Hornet it depends on the type of game you are playing. For friendly games at my FLGS or at the homes of my mates I'd pick hornets every time. For tournaments though, Hornets aren't even an option at the moment.

[Autarch]

It's an apple vs orange argument, their two completly different units. Vypers being a harassment unit designed to make your opponent their way.

Very good point.

Like I mentioned its one of the reasons I like them with EML. You can keep them at maximum range and use their speed to get clear shots down open firing lanes. Not the only way to use vypers of course, its just something I like personally.

[Lost Vyper]

I go with WW´s. Three of those bad boys with scatter lasers outflanking are bad news. Last game i played against BA and took out a Bike Squad and dealt always 8-14 wounds on units. Only downside is the AP6, next time i´m trying Star Cannons. I have used Vyper (only got 1 model) with BL just to harass, but the 5+ save just doesn't fare, when you are shot fa. with a Predator wth Heavy Bolters + Autocannon... I got 2 x 3 WW´s almost in every game and i´m waiting to use them against Necrons (down go the chariots!)...