Mogul Kamir

[Kevlarshark]

How does Mogul Kamir's Cyber Steed (+D3 attacks on the charge instead of +1) interact with Vicious Temperment (subject to Rage +2 attacks for charging)?

a)He gets only +D3 attacks for Cyber Steed
b)He gets only +2 attacks for rage
c)He gets d3 +2 attacks for rage+cyber steed

[DrLove42]

D3 + 1?

[bfmusashi]

Mogul Kamir, for those that don't know, is an Imperial Guard Rough Rider upgrade character. His purchase gives the unit Furious Charge and while he's alive he grants Fearless and Rage. He has a Cyber-steed* that gives him "+D3 attacks instead of +1" when he charges. He also has a power weapon the first time he charges that goes at Strength and Initiative 5.

I'd read this to mean you get +D3 attacks on the charge to a minimum of +2 unless you are performing a disordered charge, in which case you are stuck with just +D3.

*It never says it's a robot horse, so anything can be a Cyber-steed. Dinosaurs, wolves, dreadnoughts, Meganobz....

[gwensdad]

Well, after checking and rechecking the rulebook, the best entry I can see refers to a model gaining the benefit of several special rules at once. The +D3 is a special rule and +2 attacks is another special rule so they stack. D3+2 attacks.

So the first time he charges (with the lance) he's S6, 6*+D3 attacks.

*base 3 attacks, +2 Rage, +1 extra close combat weapon (unless lances get made into specialist weapons)

[bfmusashi]

The lance rules specifically say you don't get the bonus attack for an extra hand weapon and the rule book says a fixed value is the final determinant in the order of operations. It's Strength and Initiative 5 now.

[Kevlarshark]

Cheers for the responses so far!

bfmusashi, I like your reading of the rules it seems fair (D3 or +2 whichever is higher), but we all know GW FAQs are seldom fair.

gwensdad, I guess that makes sense too...A similar situation would be a model with a Power Lance (+1 strength on the charge) using furious charge (also +1 strength on the charge) gaining User +1, +1 (again!) but only when charging. With Mog' My only doubt is that both bonus replace the standard +1 you gain for charging. Can you replace the same bonus twice?

also..
Although Lances are not Specialist weapons, you can not gain an additional attack from having an additional close combat weapon, this is in the lance description (codex IG page 44).

Unless not having specialist weapon somehow overrides this (unlikely since the codex description takes priority)?.

[gwensdad]

New FAQ just changed this. The not getting a second attack is out and the S is now +2 to the model, not a straight S5 attack. (also AP3)

[Kevlarshark]

New FAQ just changed this. The not getting a second attack is out and the S is now +2 to the model, not a straight S5 attack. (also AP3)

So the standard RR with a CC weapon (or pistol) and his lance will get 3x S5 I5 attacks on the charge and with Mog leading they will be 4x S6 I5 attacks... Awesome if it wasnt for their dubious WS and armour they would be one of the nasty-est CC units in the game. They are serious contenders in a most punch for the points situation.

[Chris*ta]

So the standard RR with a CC weapon (or pistol) and his lance will get 3x S5 I5 attacks on the charge and with Mog leading they will be 4x S6 I5 attacks... Awesome if it wasnt for their dubious WS and armour they would be one of the nasty-est CC units in the game. They are serious contenders in a most punch for the points situation.

Plus they have Hammer of Wrath. And with the changes to movement for cavalry (and to Fleet) they can move a long way and put out an awful lot of potential wounds in one turn.

I like them a lot. They used to be limited to counter assault duties against power armour/terminators, whereas now they can take out lighter armoured troops fairly effectively :) but no longer the terminators :(

They're probably the best melee unit in IG (I know, yay!) but, for the points, they're real useful.

[evilamericorp]

The D3 from the steed and 2 from Rage cannot stack, as they're both replacement values. Each of them replaces the +1 attack for charging, and you can't replace that bonus attack twice. Just like when you're upgrading a model and it says replace bolt pistol with X or Y, you only have one bolt pistol to replace, so you couldn't take both X and Y.

[Kevlarshark]

The D3 from the steed and 2 from Rage cannot stack, as they're both replacement values. Each of them replaces the +1 attack for charging, and you can't replace that bonus attack twice. Just like when you're upgrading a model and it says replace bolt pistol with X or Y, you only have one bolt pistol to replace, so you couldn't take both X and Y.

If this is the case he needs FAQed because it is still unclear if the D3 (for cyber steed) or the +2 for rage takes priority...but also means he either has a useless piece of wargear or a useless special rule.

Problem is...

...that while your example is logical it is somewhat contradicted by the BRB on page32 "a character cannot gain the benefit for a special rule more than once. However the effects of multiple special rules are cumulative."
2x different special rules both modifying the same value=cumulative (currently in RAW anyway) unless someone can clear this up?

Logic and rules do not always interact.