DA Rumours

[DrLove42]

COuldn't see a DA thread, so started a new one. The text is a mix of a poor italian translation and new clarification



It's just the Dreadnought. DA Dreadnoughts can purchase an offhand autocannon or missile launcher as normal, upgrade their primary gun as normal, or replace both arms with a pair of matching guns to be deemed "Mortis."

one character prevents you from taking allies from Guard.

about the Deathwing I heard something about a box containing two hammers and shield and weapon type weapon nemesis that should give FNP to 2 +
The apothecary is FNP 5+ like normal, only one unit per army, there is a similar-to-warding staff option but not as good and for librarians as it uses a warp charge but is an automatic psychic power that can be shut down only by runic weapons and the like.

there will be new variants of land speeder ... (And perhaps also one that makes the functions of the storm talon)
Correct, the Tempest basically. It's can Zoom, comes with a twin-linked assault cannon (not on a turret) and typhoon launcher.

The presence of 3 banners that will characterize the army and the command team.
Replacement for the distributed per-squad banners. These are a lot like the SM special characters, they grant a USR for the whole army when purchased and are very expensive, must be modeled (but come as raised image banners in the DA character box) and still apply even if the banner is lost. It's just a visual representation of a way to place points.

Note: This is also the current direction for the next SM release, where Combat Tactics is renamed Chapter Tactics and is replaced by paying a surcharge on your HQ, instead of having to buy specific characters.
Named characters still impose their Chapter Tactics as per normal, and are cheaper than a standard HQ + ChapterTax, but it's a nice alternative.

the DA will have different rules on the use of plasma weapons .. something warming ... to represent the fact that they are experts in using these weapons.
They can reroll failed armor saves against Gets Hot! and vehicles get to reroll its 4+ to avoid the hull point.

New aircraft is introduced into the codex DA will not be the storm Talon.
That would be the tempest from above

the cyclone missile launcher will have an AA if the model remains stationary for that turn.
Close but no cigar. Remaining stationary lets you reroll misses with Cyclone launchers against flyers.

There will be new options for the predator.
Plasma Destroyer Turret, heavy 3 plasma cannon, no plasma cannon sponsons.

WW AA will have the option as an upgrade and 3 different types of missile to choose before the game.
Replace both Castellan and Vengeance with Helios Missile launcher for free. Heavy 1, Twin Linked, Skyfire Interceptor.

special character chaplain will be introduced
He's not new, it's Asmodai. He's just making a come back.

there will be new psychic powers and will be given space to a couple of new units that are not present in the previous codex.
The first part is true, they get a new Lore with only some resemblance to the current codex. There are 2 new units (outside of the additions of Vanguard and Sternguard).

There are two basic troops choices and not just one.
Tactical Squad and Deathwing are troops.

it comes to AA missile launchers in the new codex .. I do not know, and this refers to the type of the missile destroyers or to those mentioned above.
Devastators can upgrade to take flakk missiles at +5 points per model, replaces Krak and Frag options.


via StickMonkey 9-6-2012



Timeframe
Despite the WD cover, I am hearing Nov/Dec timeframe. Not sure if this is reveal in Nov WD (released in Oct) release in Nov, or reveal in Dec WD...the way the rumors are flowing its getting very difficult to be sure what is meant.

Here's what my sources have past along:

Characters:
New Azrael - PA, helmet on and off options, still with a watcher model holding combi-plasma (supposedly the watchers have an expanded role on table top now, but this is the first I've hear of this and no details given, so lots of skepticism.)
Azmodai - TA
Ezekial model staying the same.
Ravenwing Bike captain
Named Sargeant (Nameth?)
Belial gets a model
Sammael gets a new model (I am not certain, but this could be the bike captain being mistaken)


Units:
Landspeeder-esq flyer. (we've heard this before, so could be rehash) Has Aquila like wings. TLAC, TML, TLPC, TLHvyB (sounded like these were options, not that it had them all at once)
Plasma Pred (heard this before, too) TLPC turret.
Deathwing Box (new to me) AC, Cyclone Launcher, THSS x2, LC x2, PS x1, PC, HF, PF x5, SB x5, CF x2 (Lots of bits there, consistent with the load of extras in things like the Space wolf Termies, Plasma Cannon Termie? IBIWISI)
New Dreadnought type. Mortis options.
Inner Circle box. Elites. Robed PA. dual unit box. one is CC focus, the other is dual pistols (gunslingers, anyone?) one version uses chaplain helmets.
Seige unit. (not many details given on this, sounds like techmarine thunderfire type unit, hoping to get more on this)

via StickMonkey 9-17-2012


Ok boys and girls. Not going so far as to call these rumors, as I have word only of some drawn art assets, but it could point to potential models and rules so passing it along.

First:
Ravenwing.
Got some art of an attack bike with what could be a plasma blaster in the gunner side. definitely plasma. but multiple barrels. could also just be TLPG but the source said it was one weapon not side by side when asked.
Second shot has a squadron of bikes, 6 bikes + attack bike riding down orks, in the air is a landspeeder, but it has underslung missle pods. Could certainly be creative license.

Deathwing.
Got art of Termie with a plasma cannon, back pack and hoses running behind.
Termies fighting chaos, one with LC and Cyclone launcher, the rest SB and PF, SGT in front with PS. Lends credence to mixed squads being present.

Other.
Art of supposed new flyer does very much resemble the lightning, with a landspeeder-esque body.
Shot of chaplain in TA fighting a hellbrute. So obviously wasn't meant for DV as that chaplain is PA.
Techmarine firing unknown weapon. Looks like a punisher cannon. supported with servo harness and held at hip. one servo arm is feeding belt ammo into it.

One thing, I've gotten a lot of rumors winging my way of techmarines. IMHO I am not certain some of it might not be for something else down the road. There is no particular fluff reason I'm aware of DA would have a greater than normal emphasis on TM. Iron hands, sure. But not DA.

Or possible as a first founding chapter there is just more artificer armor present and the art is being mistaken for techmarines...


via BoLS 10-2-2012


Jetbike unit mentioned


via Faeit 10-19-2012


Matt Ward is the Author


via GWTilea 10-29-2012


Deathwing (4 units in the codex)

Command Squad - 2 wounds like Paladins, WS5 BS5, Command Squad squad upgrades... can have attached Chaplain and/or Librarian. Very pricey.

Elite Squad - WS5 assault unit with mastercrafted weapons and special options

Troop squad - Standard DW squad, can have an attached Chaplain

Heavy Support Squad - BS5 dedicated ranged squad - no assault weapons, more heavy heavy weapons - AP3 Stormbolters.

Ravenwing (4 units in the codex)

Command Squad WS5 A2, all members can buy sergeant upgrades, unit has command squad upgrade options.

Troop Squad - 3-10 bikes, 0-1 Attack bike, gains Ravenwing special rules and options.

Fast Attack Squad - 1-5 Attack Bike squadron, can split into 2 units

Land Speeder Squadron - 1-5 Speeders with access to standard equipment, can split into 2 units

Odds & Ends

New Dreadnought type - Terminator options.

Large flyer - transport capacity: 20 (or 10 terminators)

Chaplains can deploy singly, or join units like Sanguinary Priests.

Codex should be out between february and april...

via Stickmonkey 10-31-2012

Deathwing

Honor Guard Terminator squad unlocked by select HQs (Belial - others???). One such unit per HQ, only one may carry a Chapter Banner. Other banners exist however. Models are W:2 WS/BS:5 Non-scoring. Can take Apothecary.

Elite Terminators are W:1, WS/BS:5. Unit has new CC options neverbefore seen on termys. Unit size max of 5. Vanguard Strike upon Deepstriking!

Troops Terminators are standard DW. Sergeant may upgrade to to Chaplain. Can take new options such as Plasma Cannon. Up to 10 models per unit. No more Cyclone/CC option on single models. Mix of CC and Ranged models still permitted withing unit.

Ravenwing

RW Command Squad is only unlocked by select HQ characters. One banner option for RW. No apothecary for RW, with a "Mini-Chaplain" upgrade instead. This option provide a Litanies buff his unit only.

Troop RW squad matches the current RW bike squad, minus the Speeder.

RW Attack Bikes - plasma gunner option
RW Land Speeders - plasma gunner option


via Stickmonkey 11-1-2012

HQ:
Azrael - Artificer or Terminator options. New model. Lions Helm grants 3+ Inv., Lion's Wrath grants Gets Hot rerolls (army-wide?), Master crafted Plasma Blaster (see Horus Heresy book?), Sword of Secrets is Sx2 Master Crafted Power weapon. Watcher in the Dark model is W:1 5+ Inv, with no other stats. It cannot be targeted by anything including blasts, and must stay within 2" of Azrael or is removed. Watcher can take Look Out Sirs.

Belial - Terminator armor. New model. Eternal Warrior 2+ Inv!!! Grants Elites Deathwing Termys Heroic Intervention if he is attached. Cannot take options, Master Crafted Strombolter. Sword of Secrets is a Relic Blade with an additional effect. Belian grants a buff to Termys within 6".

Sammael - If mounted in his Speeder, unlocks scoring Speeders. Can also take his normal bike.

Azmodai - Current model (finecast) Unlocks no units. His Litanies grants a longer ranged more potent buff.

Ezekiel - Current model (finecast), Psyker Level 3

Barakiel - Master of the Forge. Armed with a "Reaper Cannon" - 36" S:5 Assault (6 or 12?) AP:3 Extremely Expensive in points.

Librarian - Power Level 1 (upgrade to 2)
Company Master - Power Armor, or Terminator armor
Interrogator Chaplain
Command/Honor squad Terminators or Bikes with Belial or Sammael respectively, Apothecary, Standard bearer, 1x Heavy weapon upgrades. W:2 regardless of armor, or bikes.

Elites:

Chaplains / Brother-Interrogators - Unit size 1-3. Chaplain style death masks, dual bolt pistols and power maul. (can upgrade pistols). B-I have an increased BS over regular chaplains and can operate independantly as IC or join units, B-I only buff the unit they join with litanies (more potent version), while non-upgraded chaplains buff a 6" bubble. B-I are only characters if independent, and cannot leave attached units (similar to Wolfguard).

Inner Circle Unit Terminator armor. W:1, Heroic Intervention if Belial is attached to the unit. WS/BS 5. They get a cover save upon deepstriking. "Lion-themed" visually. Entire unit can purchase Sergeant upgrades. No heavy weapons, Unit max size:5. Categorized as Deathwing Assault Unit

Dreadnought - Venerable and Mortis options. Categorized as Deathwing Assault Unit.

Scouts - Land Speeder Storm as dedicated transport. "Markerlight" effect targets one enemy unit - other Dark Angels units then get a bonus (reroll to hit?) versus the unit as long as the Scouts are within line of sight to thier "Fallen" target. Teleport Homer. Sergeant Namaan (WOOHOO!!) returns, granting Reserve rerolls to all Death Wing units.

Techmarine

Veterans

via Stickmonkey 11-6-2012

TROOPS:

Deathwing Terminators - Same general layout as we have now, but with additional Plasma Cannon and Autocannon heavy weapon options.

Tactical Squads - The old classics we all love, moving on...

Ravenwing Bike Squad - Up to ten bikers, for each 5 bikes, you may upgrade one to an Attack bike. Attack bike gunner options are: HB, MM, HF, Twin-linked Plasmagun!. Squad can Combat Squad and has Teleport Homers.

FAST ATTACK:

Ravenwing Landspeeder Support Squad - Same as now, but gunner option are: HB, MM, HF, Twin-linked Plasmagun!

Ravenwing Bike Support Squad - Full Attack Bike unit (could also be a duplicate report of the TROOPS Bike Squad)

Assault Squad - Same old classic jump-pack squad we have now.

Ravenclaw Air Superiority Fighter - Dual "Reaper Cannons" allowing Snap Shots on flyers. Can be replaced with 2x Missiles, or 2x Plasma Cannons.

via MarikLaw 11-7-2012

Little birdy told me that Dark Angels Tactical Squads will be able to take a Heavy Flamer as a heavy weapon option. Was also told that the Heavy Flamer option would not be unique to Dark Angels and that subsequent Marine book Tactical Squads would get Heavy Flamers as well.

Another word from the same little birdy as before: The plasma re-roll special rule that Azrael gets is also a "Chapter Tactic" that most characters (excluding named ones) can get, albeit for a points increase (not cheap either, apparently).

via Stickmonkey 11-12-2012

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Predator - Plasma and "Reaper Cannon" new main gun option, no new sponson options - new model kit possible (and the Predator is kind of an old kit).

Whirlwind - Flakk missile option.

Land Raider - Dark Angels get all the current Imperial types. Deathwing can take then at dedicated transports.

Dreadnought - The classics that we know and love, moving on...

Devastator Squad - Flakk missile option.

Vindicator - Nothing new here...

Siege Cannon - Techmarine's mortar-like cannon. Multiple sources speak of this model being somehow interchangable with Imperial Guard artillery kits to round out the last missing models. ~Editor's note: the Griffon perhaps?

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS:

Rhino - Standard rules.

Razorback - Standard rules, new updated model kit with ALL turret weapons options mentioned.

Land Raider - Deathwing Terminators ONLY.

Land Speeder Storm - Scouts only.

Battle Bunker - from the Wall of Martyrs kit.


via Stickmonkey and Faeit 212 11-19-2012

Dark Angels Scheduling:

- Dark Angels devoted White Dwarf for January

- Miniatures go up for pre-order end of December and are available very early January. ~So save up some of your holiday money!

Rules-wise we hear the following:

-Sammael still rides the Imperium's only functioning jetbike.

-Larger sized Tactical Squads have been reported ~perhaps the 1st Chapter is still holding onto some of the "old Legion ways"???

-Standard "Green Dark Angels" are well represented with 8 unit choices across the codex. It won't be all Deathwing and Ravenwing.

via Stickmonkey 11-26-2012

Expected Dark Angels Launch miniatures:

Deathwing Box
Ravenwing Box
Dark Angels Powered Armor Box
Mystery Large Vehicle

3 New Characters:

Belial,
Asmodai
Namaan

...existing characters moved to finecast.

Dark Angels recieve a Full codex - not a White Dwarf update.


via Italian forum: GWtilea 11-27-2012

- Whirlwind will get recut with a third missile rack with a single big missile (AA skyhammer option?)
- Two new flyers - one smaller and one bigger (rumored Darktalon and Nephilim from BL book?)

via anonymous 12-12-2012

Darkshroud
Land Speeder variant which has an ancient statue from the Fortress-Monastery. Using channeled warp energy, it creates and impenetrable field of darkness beneath and behind itself.

Dark Talon
Flyer of unknown size which operates in squadrons, armed with hurricane bolters, maybe more.

Nephilim Strike Fighter
Variant on the Avenger, has wingtip-mounted Blacksword Missiles and an Avenger weapon system.

Black Knights
The Ravenwing elite, they have plasma weapons on all their bikes, and instead carry raven head-shaped thunderhammers into battle, with the Hunt Master having a corvus hammer.


via White Dwarf / Faeit 212 12-20-2012


Units
Dark Talon: Rift Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Stasis Bomb (one-use, dropped on an enemy for -3 WS and -3I)

Nephilim Fighter: Heavy bolters, Blacksword missiles (unit is "good at taking on enemy flyers"), Avenger mega-bolter / Las-cannon.

Deathwing Command: Options incl. Apothecary and Standard bearer. A "Champion" wielding the "massive Halberd of Caliban" is cited.

Deathwing Knights: Terminators - WS5, Storm Shields, Power-mauls and special rules, incl. Hammer of
Wrath and "Smite" which makes them strike at S:10 AP:2 for one round. DW Terminators and the DW Knights can be fielded in units of 10. DW can take Plasma Cannons and they have the USR "Split Fire"

Land Speeder Vengeance: AC/HB, Plasma Storm battery (firing either 3 small blasts or 1 large blast).

Darkshroud: HB/AC, Shrouded USR and confers Stealth to allies within 12".

RavenWing Black Knights: Plasma Talons (instead of bolters), Corvus hammer (???), optional RavenWing grenade launcher.

Sammael: 4+ inv.save (conferred to his land speeder)

Dreadnaught: dual linked-autocannons, Venerable dreadnaught has "DW vehicle" rule (???)

Rules:

DW Knights and Black Knights have a rule called "Inner Circle" granting a re-roll in close combat (???).

"DW Assault" rule ensures Deepstrikes in turns 1 or 2 with no rolling, decided by the DA player before the game begins.


via White Dwarf / Faeit 212 12-26-2012

Deathwing Knights
WS:5
T:5 when packed in close together
Smite (one use ability which lasts one turn)
Optional Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport

Deathwing Terminators
1 per 5 may upgrade to the following:
Heavy bolter
Plasma cannon
Assault cannon
Cyclone missile launcher
Optional Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport

[isotope99]

All sounds reasonable and easily representable with current kits plus a few new ones to mkake it a fairly efficient release box-wise e.g.:


New multi-purpose IG style character/command sprue
New predator
Finally a proper rifleman style dreadnought


Won't like it if you pay extra AND have to give up your current missiles for flakk. One or the other sounds more reasonable. Wonder if they will roll this out to other armies via an FAQ (preferable) or just update codices one at a time.

Be nice to see some whirlwinds on the tables again.

[Wildcard]

I kinda like the choose one or another - it makes it more of tactical choices. And it doesn't make your units completely useless if (in this case) enemy wont bring any planes to the table, since you can still use your weapons to fire at ground targets (and if you hit only 6'es, you can move as well cos it doesn't make your chances any better)

My terminators are a bit fearfull of the amount of plasma those dudelings will be able to wield.

I usually play against two friends: another plays chaos space marines, and another plays orks (now most likely decided to go with the starter box DAs)

Those are gonna be brutal matches with elite plasma dudes and lots of lots of hordes coming towards my puny Grey Knight terminators :D

All in all, game evolves, and brings new stuff and rules and so on to the game. Couln't be happier!

[Azrell]

those are rumors? rly the dark angels get mortis dreads... wow. this just in DAs to have bolt guns in there tactical squads!! pffff everything here already exists in a previous codex or is already FW.

[Madness]

COuldn't see a DA thread, so started a new one. The text is a mix of a poor italian translation and new clarification
if you need help with a translation I'm italian.

[Kozemp]

special character chaplain will be introduced
He's not new, it's Asmodai. He's just making a come back.

This makes me unreasonably happy.

[Incubi]

Must be a Chaplin perhaps Asmodai or perhaps the Chapter Master? All those fluff stories about leaving other armies in the lurch.

Also makes me think of Cypher for some reason - but that was more him causing unrest with allies - the thinking was that he'd be an allied contingent in white dwarf right?

[Kawauso]

The only thing I dislike about these rumours...

...is how long other SM books will have to wait to get the same tweaks to stuff they already have. That is, skyfire options on Whirlwinds, etc.

[JMichael]

The only thing I dislike about these rumours...

...is how long other SM books will have to wait to get the same tweaks to stuff they already have. That is, skyfire options on Whirlwinds, etc.

Perhaps, but personally I hope (and honestly believe) that after the DA codex the other Marine armies will be errata'd to include those options (flakk and skyfire).

[Kawauso]

Perhaps, but personally I hope (and honestly believe) that after the DA codex the other Marine armies will be errata'd to include those options (flakk and skyfire).

See I'd love to believe that...

But how long were BT and DA waiting on 3++ storm shields, etc.? Space Wolves and Blood Angles too, prior to their new books.

[thingol]

Why am I suspicious of DA once again being the first SM codex out of the gate with a new release?

[Rajden]

OK I GET IT, Dark angels are the first founded chapter, the big brother... But REALLY GW? Dark angels were first out the last edition too and look where that put them. I really hope that taking skyfire shot upgrade doesn't compleatlely exchange the normal fire ability. I doubt that there are any (really) good reasons for removing the standard shots, If they can carry frags and kracks, why not just allow the player to choose one of them to be removed? Or are the missile laucher completely adapted for skyfire targeting? :S

Lets just hope being first out this time around isn't such a bad thing.

[incenerate101]

OK I GET IT, Dark angels are the first founded chapter, the big brother... But REALLY GW? Dark angels were first out the last edition too and look where that put them. I really hope that taking skyfire shot upgrade doesn't compleatlely exchange the normal fire ability. I doubt that there are any (really) good reasons for removing the standard shots, If they can carry frags and kracks, why not just allow the player to choose one of them to be removed? Or are the missile laucher completely adapted for skyfire targeting? :S

Lets just hope being first out this time around isn't such a bad thing.

Are you kidding? Do you know how ridiculous that would make missile launchers? Give them AA and AV? No. I think their is going to be more to the Skyfire rules perhaps something to do with Skimmers and Fast Vehicles. Perhaps something along the lines of the launcher itself being equipped to target things faster then a normal tanks.

[Subexarch]

Nothing wrong with them giving up the ability to effect ground targets to shoot down aircraft. You think ML spam is bad now? Give them all three missles and you'll never see another type of heavy weapon in a marine army.:eek:

[Renegade]

Nothing wrong with them giving up the ability to effect ground targets to shoot down aircraft. You think ML spam is bad now? Give them all three missles and you'll never see another type of heavy weapon in a marine army.:eek:

Leaves more for the Imperial Guard.

Seriously, IG players would love it as it would make the Russ king of the tanks.

[Brother Sutek]

Asmodai coming back? Good news indeed! Our current psychic powers getting changed? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! I haven't used a librarian since the current book gave us these crap(in my opinion) powers and have been annoyed since the BAs got our old ones plus better and actually useful options! As for the Tempest, seeing as I have three already I would love to have them in the new book but actually be able to field them without argument and possibly lower points cost :) The DAs got me into 40k in 2nd edition but the change in fluff and rules have made me play eldar and IG far more, looking forward with a truck of salt that they fix the book. Who knows they might even give artificer armour to more than techmarines and special characters ;)

[harveydent]

What about Brother Bethor!?!?

[Tynskel]

OK I GET IT, Dark angels are the first founded chapter, the big brother... But REALLY GW? Dark angels were first out the last edition too and look where that put them. I really hope that taking skyfire shot upgrade doesn't compleatlely exchange the normal fire ability. I doubt that there are any (really) good reasons for removing the standard shots, If they can carry frags and kracks, why not just allow the player to choose one of them to be removed? Or are the missile laucher completely adapted for skyfire targeting? :S

Lets just hope being first out this time around isn't such a bad thing.

Uhhh...
Dark Angels were a 4th Edition Codex.

[Deadlift]

Why am I suspicious of DA once again being the first SM codex out of the gate with a new release?

Unless chaos hit us mid September then I think DA could be next, just looking at the inside rear cover of this months WD.
1st legion too.

[Eberk]

Uhhh...
Dark Angels were a 4th Edition Codex.

Indeed... DA Codex dates from 2006, 5th edition came out in 2008.

So DA "again" being the first codex of an edition ???? Didn't happen in 4th, didn't happen in 5th...let's see about 6th

[incenerate101]

Indeed... DA Codex dates from 2006, 5th edition came out in 2008.

So DA "again" being the first codex of an edition ???? Didn't happen in 4th, didn't happen in 5th...let's see about 6th

The rumor is that chaos marines and renegade guard codeicies will drop first late September or early October followed shortly after by dark angels.

[Deadlift]

The rumor is that chaos marines and renegade guard codeicies will drop first late September or early October followed shortly after by dark angels.

Rumours maybe, wouldn't be the 1st time GW have sprung a surprise on us though. I kind of hope it's DA tbh :)

[incenerate101]

The thing about it is chaos rumors have been around since 5th and with all the new models coming out for demons as well it's kind of heart lifting to start having hard evidence of it all xD but both will be fun. A full fallen army would be sick xD

[Dalleron]

I've read before that the DA codex was the prototype for the SM codex. Then the next SM codex came out and all but invalidated the DA codex. Free/cheaper weapons and combat tactics. I hope that this doesn't happen again.

[DarkLink]

Faeit says they'll be revamping the Heavy Bolter stats. Unfortunately, supposedly they're just making it a Salvo weapon so you have an Assault 2 option, or something to that effect, which means heavy bolters are still pretty much useless on just about everything that can actually take them.

[Dlatrex]

Do we have any more information about the implications of the picture in the penultimate page of white dwarf? Have DA's replaced CSM as the next most likely release?

[Kawauso]

Faeit says they'll be revamping the Heavy Bolter stats. Unfortunately, supposedly they're just making it a Salvo weapon so you have an Assault 2 option, or something to that effect, which means heavy bolters are still pretty much useless on just about everything that can actually take them.

According to the salvo rules though that 'assault 2' option wouldn't permit assaulting after firing and would only be at half the weapon's full range, however...in this case 18". Bleh.

I think heavy bolters should have pinning.

The rule doesn't crop up enough in the game and it would at least make heavy bolters quasi-interesting...plus I can just imagine the shells those things spew really encouraging one to keep their head down.
More instances of pinning throughout the game would at least make the rule more relevant, seeing as pinning checks are pretty easy to pass for most units anyway.

I just have this fancy notion of being able to suppress units with a 4x heavy bolter Devastator squad...I love the models. :)

[DarkLink]

I think heavy bolters should have something that makes them not suck. Pinning or not, move and shoot or not, a mere three str 5 ap4 shots when you can upgrade to a much more potent weapon instead is pretty much worthless.

[Kawauso]

Maybe Salvo 6/4, Pinning?

I dunno. Something to make them relevant would be pretty great though.

[Defenestratus]

Maybe Salvo 6/4, Pinning?

I dunno. Something to make them relevant would be pretty great though.

How about keeping them just the way they are.

They punish my Eldar pretty badly as it is.

A Baal predator makes quick work out of a squad of Dire Avengers pretty damn quick.

[DarkLink]

Predators, GK Razorbacks, and Retributers are basically the only units in the entire game where heavy bolters are actually a viable option that isn't completely superseded by a superior available option. There's something wrong with that.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

A Baal predator makes quick work out of a squad of Dire Avengers pretty damn quick.

Isn't that largely the Flame Cannon/Assault Cannon?

[plawolf]

Well obviously you know something is badly underpowered when no-one takes it even if it's free (ie 10 men tac squads).

Although another unit where you might see HBs would be Long Fang squads, albert they would be mixed with another HW choice, most commonly the missile launcher.

------------------

Anyways, back to DA, I have a feeling that DA might bring a kind of balance to 6th ed as the amount of plasma, and the increased safety margin in using them should help to make people think twice about investing too much in termie armor.

That should help to change the metagame so that armies who don't have decent access to AP2 or better weapons would have less of a chance of running into a wall of 2+ armor saves and not having much of a chance to start with.

My Draigowing GK army may need to start bring along crusader 3++ meat shields to hide behind now, and ironically, DA will probably be one of the best counters to the new Deathwing armies.

[Bracchus]

Isn't that largely the Flame Cannon/Assault Cannon?
A dakka preds two heavy bolters and autocannon tend to make mincemeat of anything not 3+. Mine always have anyway.

[Wildcard]

Also battlecannon russ with 3x HB eats pretty much everything non 2+ alive. 170pts tho for one..

[Defenestratus]

Isn't that largely the Flame Cannon/Assault Cannon?

Nope. Thats the Heavy Bolter shots.

6 Str 5, Ap 4 shots

hit on 3's wound on 2's no saves (except crappy cover)

Not everything in the game has a 3+ save. Last night I played two escalation league games where not a single troop choice in the game had better than a 4+ armor save.

Amazing huh?

[Bigred]

New units and stats added to OP

[Dalleron]

I wonder why the LE chaplain's rule hasn't been brought up here. Making a squad that he joins have Preferred enemy to chaos SM. I doubt they'd introduce that for only a model in a starter set. Unless I missed that in the revised OP. Odds that it sticks around?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nope. Thats the Heavy Bolter shots.

6 Str 5, Ap 4 shots

hit on 3's wound on 2's no saves (except crappy cover)

Not everything in the game has a 3+ save. Last night I played two escalation league games where not a single troop choice in the game had better than a 4+ armor save.

Amazing huh?

You're a bad man.

[bolsadmin]

OP updated, new artwork descriptions and equipment hints.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Dark Angels Discussion: The Plasma army? It's how I play anyway, but fair enough. Everything sounds okay, and it shouldn't be much of a change from what I have now.

Heavy Bolter Discussion: Salvo 2/3, Pinning; test for each unsaved wound while stationary. Would mean you actually stand a chance of supressing a unit.

[Denied]

I don't trust a thing StickMonkey says he makes it all up and is wrong yet every once in a blue moon he gets one thing right by accident and then people hail him as an internet profit.

[MarneusCalgar]

Hope they get more than plasma things...

[undone]

Sounds like Dark Angels will be pretty cool, but I can't really recognize the Death Wing from way back when.

Any word if there will an option for peace pipes?

2814

Surely the indian bonfire jamboree fortifications are in.

2813

[Marius]

Dark angels are space marines knight version.
They should do something with that.

Instead of vanguard veterans- Ravenwing lancers.

Inner circle knights...

Deathwing champion

Ravenwing champion...

[robrodgers46]

Now that all the boring Chaos stuff is no longer a rumor, can we go back to focusing on rumors I find personally interesting? :) Any news on the DA front?

[steelrudi]

Now that all the boring Chaos stuff is no longer a rumor, can we go back to focusing on rumors I find personally interesting? :) Any news on the DA front?

I heartily agree. Where are the DARK ANGELS!!!!???? I wish GW would pull their collective heads out. They know were waiting for this, and they tease us unmercilessly. They are a bunch of Gits. :D:D

[uglytater]

Maybe GW has a horrible secret about the DA army and isn't telling us because they've been sworn to secracy. I need to paint more Deathwing now...

[steelrudi]

I've been collecting DA for over 20 years so I'm used to waiting, but this is maddening!!! So I'm working on a DA Crusade/Heresy army.
Anything to spend my money.

[Absolon]

I've been collecting DA for over 20 years so I'm used to waiting, but this is maddening!!! So I'm working on a DA Crusade/Heresy army.
Anything to spend my money.

When I started Dark Angels armor was still black and GW recommended highlighting by rubbing a crayon over the model. The good old days when Rhinos came 3 to a box

[steelrudi]

Dont forget the RT landraiders 2 to a box. I love those things. Always looking for more too.

[Wildcard]

Leman Russ Battle Tank, 10 in a box...

We have a winner? :D

[DrLove42]

New stuff from Faeit. Probable release in November?


via Stickmonkey over on Warseer
Right now info I have is we will see DA in November, and we can play with them before Christmas.

From the rules rumor dept I have a few bits, please bear in mind these are only rumors:

HQ:
Azrael
Belial - not needed for deathwing
Sammael - not needed for ravenwing
Azmodai
Ezekiel
Barakiel - named Techmarine/master of the forge! Note: barakiel is known as Angel of Lightning in references
Sabrael - guardian of the inner circle, gives bonus to inner circle unit
Librarian
Company Master TA option
Interrogator chaplain
Command squad ( option to take TA or bikes with Belial or Sammael respectively, and apothecary, standard bearer, 1 heavy weapon)

Elite:
Techmarine
Chaplains (x3 can function independently like sanguinary priests in BA, or form a unit w special rules). Only characters if independent.
Inner circle unit ( name is not known) tasked with hunting down one enemy unit, special rules for doing so. Can death wing assault, can assault on deep strike. But glass cannon, great in assault, but standard PA so will be easily shot up.
Brother-interrogators - this unit wears chaplain style death masks, but are not chaplains, they are a specialist unit adept at near range combat, standard armament is dual bolt pistols and power maul. Can upgrade pistols.
Veterans
Dreadnought
Scouts

Troops:
Terminators
Tactical squad
Ravenwing Bike squad not sure how it differs from ravenwing assault squad.

FA:
Ravenwing assault squad
Ravenwing support squad
Assault marines
Ravenclaw air superiority fighter

Hvy
Predator
Whirlwind w flakk options
Land raider
Devastator w flakk options
Dreadnought
Vindicator

Rumor is there is something else for the heavy slot too, but no info specific to it.

Fortifications:
Siege cannon ( this is supposedly the Techmarine cannon described earlier)
Battle bunker

That's enough to chew on for now....might be a few more surprises...and this is still just RUMOR folks...names and all.







Land speeder storm was also in the FA slot, according to sources.

No mention of excessive plasma-ness in this round.

Phil did say that. However, there has also been much debate over getting appropriate xenos fortifications into the mix. They have eldar, ork and tyranid terrain just waiting to be produced that I know of. Maybe next summer will be summer of fortifications. :P


Standard Dedicated Transports are there, Rhino, razorback, and Drop Pods. I have conflicting rumors the Land Raider is in as a Dedicated Transport for Terminators.

Also in discussions at Games Day, the StormTalon is to remain a Codex Space Marines only vehicle.

Mixed terminator squads: Earlier rumor was mixed squad remained, however, cyclones could only be taken on SB marines. I haven't heard any more on this, that was a while ago, it really could go either way. I wouldn't build any more or tear apart those you have just yet.

the company master for DA in TA will be a single plastic character blister. It will include some options for loadout but not all, but will be blinged out like the DV termies.



the new landspeeder
Its bigger than the StormTalon, but the fuselage has a landspeeder style to it. I took it to mean squarish. The wings are supposedly fanned forward like an Aquila. And others have mentioned it would not take much to make this look like the chapter symbol, but I haven't heard anything on this.

The single character sprues have plenty of space on them for options. Look at what is packed onto a character finecast sprue. You have Arjak in a smaller finecast sprue and he's in TA, then you have Draigo with head swaps. I don't find it at all implausible they could have 2-3 weapons, perhaps a sword, a storm bolter or a combi weapon all on the sprue. Also, IIRC there was a single sprue terminator released with WD with the starter release for 5th. Granted, it was just a starter terminator, but it certainly fits in the character sprue sized thoughts.

From what I have heard there is a death wing upgrade character, a tactical upgrade character, a ravenwing upgrade character, and a scout upgrade character, namaan being one of these.

[Learn2Eel]

Sounds good, I do like the Dark Angels. They've needed the update for a while.

[magickbk]

I hadn't used my Dark Angels in years. They were my original army, back during Rogue Trader with the black armor. One of my final games of 5th Edition, I decided to dust off my old 2nd/3rd edition army for a single game, they hadn't been on the table since 3rd edition, maybe around summer of 2000. I missed them. Can't wait for the Codex to come out.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Sounds great! I'm guessing the Inner Circle and brother-interrogators will be one plastic duel-kit, Ravenclaw another - so I guess the third will probably be a a deathwing kit (especially if they are troops and have command options). If they get a 4th I'd hazard a guess at it being a Mortis Dread, Plasma-pred or that other rumoured siege engine thingy. Sounds like a pretty good release to me, especially if they get a plastic character sprue or two.

[Marius]

sounds very very good rumors!!!

[musical-fool]

Sounds great! I'm guessing the Inner Circle and brother-interrogators will be one plastic duel-kit, Ravenclaw another - so I guess the third will probably be a a deathwing kit (especially if they are troops and have command options). If they get a 4th I'd hazard a guess at it being a Mortis Dread, Plasma-pred or that other rumoured siege engine thingy. Sounds like a pretty good release to me, especially if they get a plastic character sprue or two.

I could see more of an upgraded/updated DA spue kit for the likes of DW/RW special weapons, command options, etc. and possibly an updated Dread kit to fit the mortis options for the liek of DA and GK

There were rumours a while back syaing that there was a possibility of a new kit with full option for chaplains and librarians. Could the techmarine rumour overkill be pointing in this direction? i.e. a new kit further down the line for C:SM with multiple options?

[eldargal]

Stickmonkey says/implies/whatever that advance orders for DA go up in late november for a december release and that Warriors of Chaos for WFB are in the early November slot.

[Deadlift]

Stickmonkey says/implies/whatever that advance orders for DA go up in late november for a december release and that Warriors of Chaos for WFB are in the early November slot.

Wouldn't that conflict with the Hobbit ?

[musical-fool]

Wouldn't that conflict with the Hobbit ?

Isn't the Hobbit next month? The image is in the last few pages of WD

[eldargal]

Well the Hobbit is arriving in December too, but it could be a later release. Get DA out before the film hits on 14th of December in the US and 26th of December here, have a pre-Christmas release of The Hobbit stuff to get those sales? Just speculation.

[Deadlift]

Well the Hobbit is arriving in December too, but it could be a later release. Get DA out before the film hits on 14th of December in the US and 26th of December here, have a pre-Christmas release of The Hobbit stuff to get those sales? Just speculation.

It's 26th here ? fudge nuts I thought we got it on the 14th too.

Thank you, you have managed to bring me up, and knock me down in one sentence :p

[eldargal]

Alternatively Stickmonkey is wrong and we will see WoC in October, Da in November and Hobbit in December.:p Though GW did say they had a big surprise planned for December, and they had already talked about the Hobbit so it isn't a surprise...

I'm a bit miffed about that too, having to wait twelve days longer. Not too fussed, I'm avoiding all knowledge of the films so as much of the imagery is new to me. As I've read the book around forty times I have to try an keep some surprises.

[musical-fool]

Well the Hobbit is arriving in December too, but it could be a later release. Get DA out before the film hits on 14th of December in the US and 26th of December here, have a pre-Christmas release of The Hobbit stuff to get those sales? Just speculation.

That is what I think (and hope) will happen. Just that there is nothing that I noticed that points to a DA release and only the picture of Sir Ian for The Hobs. Would they be wanting to ramp up the enthusiasm for it a couple of months early?

[Deadlift]

That is what I think (and hope) will happen. Just that there is nothing that I noticed that points to a DA release and only the picture of Sir Ian for The Hobs. Would they be wanting to ramp up the enthusiasm for it a couple of months early?

Don't forget last months WD had DA on the rear inside cover, maybe were seeing a pattern here and the inside cover is a hint of what's to come not next month, but the one after.

[Zahariel]

Well the Hobbit is arriving in December too, but it could be a later release. Get DA out before the film hits on 14th of December in the US and 26th of December here, have a pre-Christmas release of The Hobbit stuff to get those sales? Just speculation.

Funny has something changed as i'm still seeing 14th as UK release date?

http://www.odeon.co.uk/fanatic/film_info/m13655/The_Hobbit_An_Unexpected_Journey_3D/

EDIT - here's me assuming you are residing in UK, if not apologies for butting in! ;)

[apahllo]

plasma, nuf said. oh wait, i forgot about plasma, thats another important part of my DA build.

[archimbald]

is there anything in the pipes or that anyone has guesed at about regular C:SM units such as the sternguard, vanguard, ironclad dreads joining the codex?? personally i hope they will.
and scouts still as elites, that sucks

[Kawauso]

is there anything in the pipes or that anyone has guesed at about regular C:SM units such as the sternguard, vanguard, ironclad dreads joining the codex?? personally i hope they will.
and scouts still as elites, that sucks

Seeing as the Ironclad skipped out on Space Wolves and Blood Angels, and DA already have their own dread variant (Mortis) going into this...I highly doubt they'll get in on a new DA book. The [blank]guard veterans will probably be passed over in favour the rumoured Inner Circle guys, but you never know - BA got to keep both and got Sanguinary Guard, too. Maybe it depends if Ward or Kelly are writing. :P

As for scouts being elite, it's not so bad, provided they get something more than a stat boost to set them apart (look at Wolf Scouts - good times!)...particularly if Deathwing units are going to move to troops.

[archimbald]

Seeing as the ... ...DA already have their own dread variant (Mortis) going into this...I highly doubt they'll get in on a new DA book.

forgotten about him, worthy exchange though


The [blank]guard veterans will probably be passed over in favour the rumoured Inner Circle guys, but you never know - BA got to keep both and got Sanguinary Guard, too. Maybe it depends if Ward or Kelly are writing. :P
heres to hoping


As for scouts being elite, it's not so bad, provided they get something more than a stat boost to set them apart (look at Wolf Scouts - good times!)
or a character...

[apahllo]

I'm pretty psyked up for this ravenclaw. I'm kind of hoping its more along the lines of a storm raven then the talon. Transporting units is something that I've found hard to do in 6th Ed and I've been able to use droppods effectively. Maybe along the lines of a razorback in the sky.

But the named techmarine is going to be really interesting. He has gotta be more then the mof but it doesn't fall in line with da fluff. The unforgiven don't trust mars with their secrets. It's going to be an interesting incorporation fluff wise, but I'm more excited to see if bakariel has a better repair power or an awesome gun in his arsenal.

[DrLove42]

Ask for rumours and you shall recieve.

Faeit 212 is reporting today the author of Dark Angels has been discovered.

Unsuprisingly, its the king of power armour....Mister Matt Ward

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

YEY! I am happy with this! It means that my army will induce rage on many levels! SUCCESS!!!!!

[Psyberwolfe]

YEY! I am happy with this! It means that my army will induce rage on many levels! SUCCESS!!!!!

That would be more than awesome. Going from the one DA player everyone joked about to the guy whose army pisses everyone off.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

High five!

[Chardun]

I can't wait until we have special Angel boltguns that have Dark bolt special issue ammo while Raven bombs get dropped from the sky buy whatever flying school bus we get for a flyer....

I wonder what new enemy of the Imperium we get to do fist bumps with in the fluff. Perhaps we can have a Chapter Master that lives in the warp but never gets voted out of office...

Aw, who am I kidding? It's going to be fun to be the one with a codex under the affect of the power of creep for a change.

[Kirsten]

Ward should just be given the rules to write, and be kept away from anything fluff related, then you would have a great book.

[Kyban]

I can't think of anything too bad in the BA book but it's been a while...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

To be fair, I thank Ward for his resurrection of the Necrons, he is truly a god!

[Kyban]

I'm okay with most of his fluff and his rules are decent too, though I do think they tend to be slightly better than other authors'.

[bfmusashi]

He can get wonky. In Grey Knights Mortain is two different kinds of planet and the Brotherhood Champion can take digital weapons even though his sword already rerolls to wound. The fluff stuff didn't bother me since the only deviation from the 40k standard as I knew it was the Blood Angels and Necron working together against Tyranids. Then that became acceptable after Necrons got their update.

[DrLove42]

Little slow on this from Faeit 212



via Time Ceaser from the Feait 212 inbox
Hello Natfka,
This is too let you know that I talked to someone who talked to a guy who is not a manager, but someone sent from GW.

He said that the new DA codex should be expected in January 2013

Make of it what you will

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

JANUARY?!?!?

MOTHER OF THE GODS! DECIDE ON A DATE!?!?!

/rant

[DrLove42]

I have to say 1 40k codex in the same year as the rulebook is a bit crap. We'll see what Nov is on Saturday, then its just what December is besides Hobbity

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I imagine it will just be the Hobbit.

[DrLove42]

Nope apparantly Nov in Warriors of Chaos.

Which with the Hobbit Dec, i'd imagine does agree with new year for DA

[White Tiger88]

Nope apparantly Nov in Warriors of Chaos.

Which with the Hobbit Dec, i'd imagine does agree with new year for DA

Yup.....Ward Angels 2.0 is on its way!

[leth]

Crap, I have to clear out my bikes before the new jetbikes come out.....

Made a solemn promise once they made jetbikes it is all I would use. Forgeworld Started it, now DA is gonna finish it.

Hope they do not have too much iconography on them. Otherwise its gonna be a pain filing and smoothing it over.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Love, I was saying that Dec will be purely Hobbit.

[Psychosplodge]

Dec will be purely Hobbit.

Which will suck balls...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Indeed.

[magickbk]

At least we'll have a clear month to save up our GW funds for the DA release...

[alshrive]

2 months! November Chaos, Dec Hobbit....

[eldargal]

Nope, some other things coming too apparently, at least for WFB.

Love, I was saying that Dec will be purely Hobbit.

[Eljonson]

Dark Angels please hurry up and come out already :)

[Psychosplodge]

Dark Angels please hurry up and come out already :)

That's what HE said...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Shush you.

Also, at EG, oh okay then. :p

[Absolon]

I was talking to some friends that are typically in the loop and while nothing I tried could pry a date from them, they all agreed at this point April is far to early for a Dark Angel release.

Not getting a good feeling about the DA release

[Marius]

far too early??? are you fuc... kidding me?? when it will be good after 8th edition???

[Mr Mystery]

Why so down on The Hobbit? LotR is an awesome game!!

[Psychosplodge]

This ones a film about walking to a mountain right?

[Kawauso]

This ones a film about walking to a mountain right?

Even the trees walk! :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Why so down on The Hobbit? LotR is an awesome game!!

Because I want fracking Dark Angels!

[Psychosplodge]

Even the trees walk! :)

:D

[Wildeybeast]

This ones a film about walking to a mountain right?

Completely different to LotR which was about walking to a volcano. :p

[Psychosplodge]

Completely different to LotR which was about walking to a volcano. :p

Indeed.

[DrLove42]

A bit of on topic rumours;

From Faeit 212


via Master Sheol tranlated these rumors from Italian. Below the english translation is the original in Italian
DA Playtest Rumors
Today a guy posted some rumors on the GWTilea italian board...
He told he has some rumors about DA coming from a UK playtester...
Basically what it says is that DW and RW will have 4 units each and some other info too...

Deathwing should have:
Command squad- 2 wounds like GK paladins... WS5 and BS5... command squad upgrades... upgrades for attached chaplain and/or attached librarian... very expensive unit...
Elite squad - Close combat specialistic unit with mastercrafted weapons and specific options... WS5
Troop squad - the DW squad we know now but without any speacial ability... i guess they will be just fearless without DWA... chaplain in TDA can attach...
Heavy Support squad - BS5... no access to assault weapons but access to heavy weapons... AP3 Stormbolters...

Ravenwing should have:
Command squad - 2 attacks... WS5... all the guys can take sergeant upgrades... command squad upgrades...
Troop squad - like the bike squad in vanilla codex (3-10 bikes and 2 bikes can become a single attack bike) but with RW special abilities and options
fast attack squad - 1-5 attack bike squadron can split into 2 units
LS squadron - 1-5 LS with access to all equipment as per vanilla codex plus the specific RAM version (rumored to take LC too) they can split into 2 units

New kind of dread that can take terminator options...

Very big transport flyer with room enough for 20 marines (the rumor says 20 tda but i guess it will be 20 PA or 10 tda)...

Chaplains that can act like a single unit or join squads like SP in BA army...


Another guy i know told me about a rumored name for a DA veichle... VENGEANCLAD or similar... maybe it will be the dread with terminator options...


Codex should be out between february and april...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Tasty if true!

[Kirsten]

a new dark angels vehicle in a matt ward codex means it will be called the Dark Tank

[Psychosplodge]

Not Dark helmet? A special character dreadnought...

[Marius]

i hope this rumors are true... one of my friends is sure codex will be ending january...

[Defenestratus]

Sorry - not buying the WS5 tripe.

[Psychosplodge]

if it's not in the first half of next year, and next months the hobbit...why would it be so advanced?

Also a proposed special unit?
3163
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcougpe1nF1rqwjemo1_500.jpg

[isotope99]

Sorry - not buying the WS5 tripe.

Paladdins and Death company are WS5 I think so there is Matt Ward precedent for this kind of thing.

The multiple unit types per box is also consistent with the grey knights release, although 4 different types of deathwing feels a bit much.

[apahllo]

dw, ws/bs 5!!! 2 wounds!! and as a heavy support unit! wow that was a n awesome rumor page... i really like the idea of dividing dw across the book. cc squad, elites, troops, and heavy. but im even more surprised about rw, as thats what i play. im just hoping for a points deduction...

[Deadlift]

Paladdins and Death company are WS5 I think so there is Matt Ward precedent for this kind of thing.

The multiple unit types per box is also consistent with the grey knights release, although 4 different types of deathwing feels a bit much.

Agreed, if DW and RW both get as much as is rumoured then they are really going to be the meat and potatoes of the codex with the rest of the DA bing an afterthought. I hope this isn't the case. Deathwing lists are cool but I would like to see a resurgence of the 1st Legions other marines too.

For the record, I like Matt Wards codex writing. It's entertaining in an OTT way and I see nothing wrong with that in 40k

[Psychosplodge]

Hasn't somebody said the original author of the rumour admitted making it up on the FB group?

[Deadlift]

Hasn't somebody said the original author of the rumour admitted making it up on the FB group?

Just had a look on Faeit 212, looks like its fake :) still want robe wearing, plasma cannon wielding terminators though.

[Psychosplodge]

That would be an immense dressing gown...

[Deadlift]

"Is that a plasma cannon underneath your gown ? Or are you just pleased to see me ?"

[Psychosplodge]

It's my sandwich.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It's the fence that they are sat on.

[Kyban]

Robes + Plasma Cannon = Flaming Marine

Would be a scary sight though.

[White Tiger88]

Robes + Plasma Cannon = Flaming Marine

Would be a scary sight though.

Also would force me to paint an all pink army.........with baby blue trim.

[Bigred]

Latest rumors added to OP (scroll down)

[aleyland]

They seem to be taking that plasma cannon fetish to a new level with Ravenwing/Deathwing use.

[DrLove42]

2++ and Eternal Warrior and can assault out of a deepstrike.

:O

[alshrive]

2++ and Eternal Warrior and can assault out of a deepstrike.

:O

is that your O-Face? i know i had a very similar reaction!

[Deadlift]

2++ and Eternal Warrior and can assault out of a deepstrike.

:O

This is extreme even for Ward, I can't see it myself. But if its true, fook me Dark Angels players are in for all kinds of hate.

[eldargal]

It is extreme but if it is appropriately costed then it wouldn't be too terrible.

[DrLove42]

How many Draigo wing armies will start "Count as Deathwing"

[DWest]

Also keep in mind that while they can assault from deepstrike there haven't been any rumors of ways to reduce scatter except locator beacons on Scouts, maybe Tac squads, both of which are just begging to get hosed down if your opponent brings a list like this.

[Kyban]

I'm a little skeptical about a lot of the rumors but if even half of them are true it'll be awesome. So far it sounds like it'll be a neat codex.

[magickbk]

I'm going to be mad if everyone jumps on the Dark Angels bandwagon. I may need to field portions of my Rogue Trader, 2nd Edition, and 3rd Edition armies so people know I'm not a bandwagoneer.

[Maverick421]

I'm going to be mad if everyone jumps on the Dark Angels bandwagon. I may need to field portions of my Rogue Trader, 2nd Edition, and 3rd Edition armies so people know I'm not a bandwagoneer.

You don't need to do all that, although old school armies are cool. You just need to represent the DA! I've been running DA since 3rd ed. and they are the reason I got into the hobby. :)

[bfmusashi]

The last time 2++ was rumored it was on every Grey Knight in a squad and worked all the time. Turned out it was one per squad and close combat only. 2++ isn't that big a deal unless that guy gets a jump pack and a ton of attacks. You can always kite him like my IG platoons had to kite AV13 dreads in 5th.

[MajorWesJanson]

From the sounds of it, Belial's 2++ will be either only in CC, like a warding stave, only in challenges, or like the Shadowfield where it breaks once it fails once. And his Heroic Intervetion seems to only work with the Inner Circle Deathwing squad, not necessarily with the 2 wound command squad/honor guard.

[apahllo]

From the sounds of it, Belial's 2++ will be either only in CC, like a warding stave, only in challenges, or like the Shadowfield where it breaks once it fails once. And his Heroic Intervetion seems to only work with the Inner Circle Deathwing squad, not necessarily with the 2 wound command squad/honor guard.

]challenge power, thats the direction cc characters seem to be going imo. good thought!

DWest, dude, you totally forgot about ravenwing. they all have teleporthomers now.

[Psyberwolfe]

I too am worried about the DA bandwagon. I warned Goatboy that I was going to punch him in the mommy daddy spot if he made Goat Angels.

[bfmusashi]

I'm looking forward to the DA bandwagon. It means my Daemonhunters are going to finally get those new units as everyone sheds their Grey Knights mwahahahahahaha.

[plawolf]

I too am worried about the DA bandwagon. I warned Goatboy that I was going to punch him in the mommy daddy spot if he made Goat Angels.

I thought he already did Goat Angels when Blood Angels first came out? He should call them Dark Goats, assuming that's not already taken by a new unit in the codex. You couldn't really put it past Ward could you?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

*assumes hipster shades*

I liked Dark Angels before Mat Ward broke the Codex and made them an amazing army to play. :p

[Daemonette666]

Matt Ward has worked on mainly Imperial Codexes (except of Necrons). How about we ask GW to make him work on all the remaining Xenos codexes, so Eldar, Tryanid, Tau and Ork players can play over powered cheap point unit armies with heaps of sneaky tricks low cost upgrades, new shiny "OMG it kills everything and will not die" units, most of which have some way of becoming a scoring unit, and over powered Command units that give the army super bonuses for almost no points cost.

That way the Xenos players will have a chance at being top dog for once.

And I play CSM & Chaos Daemons armies, so I will not be affected by his ridiculous OP Crud codexes.

[Marius]

I'm looking forward this codex... Matt always make very epic codexs. By the way... so many people annoyed about overpowered Matt codex??? space wolves??? that is the most overpowered...

[Dalleron]

At the risk of derailing this thread, I don't see how the SW 'dex is overpowered compared to BA and GK. Descent of Angels is possibly the most OP rule I"ve ever seen, given it's two benefits. And GK marines with force weapons on everyone? Don't even mention the IG codex.

[Gir]

Matt Ward has worked on mainly Imperial Codexes (except of Necrons). How about we ask GW to make him work on all the remaining Xenos codexes, so Eldar, Tryanid, Tau and Ork players can play over powered cheap point unit armies with heaps of sneaky tricks low cost upgrades, new shiny "OMG it kills everything and will not die" units, most of which have some way of becoming a scoring unit, and over powered Command units that give the army super bonuses for almost no points cost.

That way the Xenos players will have a chance at being top dog for once.

And I play CSM & Chaos Daemons armies, so I will not be affected by his ridiculous OP Crud codexes.

Better yet, lets give them to Cruddace, so he can make them nearly unplayable, while Imp guard remain massively over powered!

[Bigred]

OP updated with TROOPS and FAST ATTACK rumors via Stickmonkey.

[Marius]

How to check this rumors??

[Wildcard]

Oh how I would love Ward to write me a IG codex.

- 100 point fully upgraded leman russes that can fire always everything at their full ballistic skill (and even use battlecannons to shoot flyers), interceptor and skyfire included -naturally!
- Every sergeant has an " one use autohit markerlight" that calls for d3 manticore missiles, special upgrade to make the markerlight bend around corners!
- Vendettas have their TL LCs upgraded to turretet TL LCs. Comes with the new mechanicum invention: "Over Power of the Machine Spirit"
- Hot shots become str 4 ap 3 assault 2 24" (First rank fire, second rank fire increases the shots by one past 12" and doubles the shots up to 12". Sergeant able to give the order to the squad by default)
- Cheaper heavy weapon squads, and more high RoF ap 3 and ap 2 weaponry
- Super heavies as standard to the heavy slot

- Strenght in Numbers special rule to blobs with 11+ members (All models of the first row will be able to soak up to 3 wounds worth of damage, because pressure of the men in their back will keep them upright. Will be removed as casualties even when suffered one wound at the end of enemys shooting phase)

- Ogryns: 30pts, ws5 bs 3, 3w, i4, a3, 4+ save, furious charge, rending, stubborn, counts all transports as assault vehicles, Ripper guns: 18" S 5 ap -, assault 3 twinlinked, rending. Sole purpose (commander gives one order to the ogryn squad at the start of the game. Ogryn squad becomes fearless, and the controlling player must elect to pass or fail all checks against Ld values whatever best helps ogryns to accomplish their given mission. Missions usually are (but not limited to) Hold the objective, kill enemy unit x, kill the warlord, hunt the psykers, etc etc)
- Warp, wurp WHAAAT?: Even the malicious forces of the warp avoid the simple brains of Ogryns in the fear of being trapped there forever due to too simple cortex. Because this Ogryn targeted by any psychic power is always negated on a roll of 4+ (must be rolled every time any psychic power would affect them), in addition any psyker joined ogryn squad can ignore the effects of perils of the warp on a 4+)

Oh, almost forgot: First rank fire, second rank fire affects all the weapons, and that order can be given to vehicles as well (to increase shots by 1 per weapon up to max range, or double the shots up to half range.) But to balance this out, we unanimously agreed that vehicles had to be stationary to be eligible for this order!)


Oh please, let it be ward!!!


/EDIT: Lol, those ogryns actually became almost worth including in the lists :D

[StarWarsDoug]

OP updated with TROOPS and FAST ATTACK rumors via Stickmonkey.

SM here, good day BOLS from the far side of the world... Some new small bits to clarify:


Raven's Claw is apparently a nickname or playtest name of the fighter, sounds like this is not the final name.


The snapfire only applies to this rumored reaper cannon on the fighter when firing "full auto" as a Heavy 12 cannon to balance it. Again, according to playtest notes.


TL plasma guns on some models will make their way to standard C:SM

Bikes exchange 2 for 1 on attack bikes, its not a max unit of 14 marines, its a max unit of 10 marines always.

Gunners taking new weapons is not taking away from the other existing options on landspeeders, and I did not mean to imply it.


Cheers...now to get some sleep...

[Deadlift]

This all sounds awesome, but can someone answer this question. When did Dark Angels become big users of plasma weaponry ? I don't have a problem with it, I am just interested to know why.

[Anggul]

This all sounds awesome, but can someone answer this question. When did Dark Angels become big users of plasma weaponry ? I don't have a problem with it, I am just interested to know why.

I don't know, but to be honest I think the Terminator Plasma Cannon is the only one that will be used. Multi-meltas are still the best use of Attack Bikes and Land Speeders in my opinion.

[robrodgers46]

Fluff changes over time. Since GW clearly intends to keep Dark Angels a separate army, internet whining notwithstanding, they are looking for ways to differentiate them from other Marines. If they have indeed settled on this obsession with plasma, then great, DA are now obsessed with plasma.

An opinion on Mr. Ward. Neither of my armies were done by him, but I have played against his work. They seem fun to play, fun to design lists from, and challenging as opponents. Why is that a problem? I literally cannot fathom the hate. I've seen claims that his armies are undercosted and overpowered. Compared to what? Is there an accepted standard? Is a particular codex the baseline and all others are measured against it? If so, cool, which one is it?

I know, telling internet whiners not to whine is like telling the sewer not to stink. But it gets really tiresome to come to a thread looking for rumors and information and instead having to wade through post after post of complaining about Matt Ward.

/rant

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

^This

[Psychosplodge]

They always have haven't they? The old DA tac squad came with a plasma cannon didn't it?

[Kyban]

I always got the impression that DA were Plasma specialists and BA were Melta specialists, not sure where it started though...

[Psychosplodge]

Well the inferno pistol Dante carried and Tycho's combi melta....I can see why'd you'd think that.

[Kirsten]

dark angels have had a lot of plasma weapons for quite a while now, the idea was basically that they got into the armoury first and stole everything as the first legion :P

[magickbk]

They always have haven't they? The old DA tac squad came with a plasma cannon didn't it?

As far back as 2nd Edition, the story references the Chapter as having a significant armory of rare stuff due to being the first and oldest of the original legions, including many plasma weapons, Terminator suits, Land Speeders, Land Raiders, and other things. In the 3rd edition codex, they started being allowed to take more of those weapons than other chapters, and that has simply continued. Most commonly, availability of Plasma in Tactical Squads.

[Bigred]

via Stickmonkey 11-12-2012

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Predator - Plasma and "Reaper Cannon" new main gun option, no new sponson options - new model kit possible (and the Predator is kind of an old kit).

Whirlwind - Flakk missile option.

Land Raider - Dark Angels get all the current Imperial types. Deathwing can take then at dedicated transports.

Dreadnought - The classics that we know and love, moving on...

Devastator Squad - Flakk missile option.

Vindicator - Nothing new here...

Siege Cannon - Techmarine's mortar-like cannon. Multiple sources speak of this model being somehow interchangable with Imperial Guard artillery kits to round out the last missing models. ~Editor's note: the Griffon perhaps?

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS:

Rhino - Standard rules.

Razorback - Standard rules, new updated model kit with ALL turret weapons options mentioned.

Land Raider - Deathwing Terminators ONLY.

Land Speeder Storm - Scouts only.

Battle Bunker - from the Wall of Martyrs kit.

[Bigred]

Aslo, the Dark Angels have been noted as being heavy user and experts with plasma arms for several editions now - due them being the First Legion and possessing an impressive and ancient armoury.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Cannot wait for this. :D

[Wildcard]

Land Raider - Dark Angels get all the current Imperial types. Deathwing can take then at dedicated transports.

My Grey Knight Terminators weep because they seem to be becoming the only terminator group in the whole game that cannot take LRs as dedicated :(

[Deadlift]

No drop pods ?

[daboarder]

My Grey Knight Terminators weep because they seem to be becoming the only terminator group in the whole game that cannot take LRs as dedicated :(

At least they can still take good land raiders, Chaos is stuck with the god relatively awful godhammer.

[apahllo]

No drop pods ?

My thoughts exactly. I hope it's a mistake.

[Skalver]

No drop pods ?

Possibly it was felt that with just taking away scouts from troops didn't balance out adding both Deathwing and Ravenwing squads so they took away the drop pods and the potential for drop pod deployment to balance it out a little more.

Given the chapter has two full rapid deployment companies beyond what a typical chapter had it could make sense thematically for drop pods to be a seldom used option. The mention that dreadnoughts get deathwing assault, would suggest that drop pod removal is quite a possibility as you would no longer need them to deep strike dreadnoughts. The new large flier option would also make a little more sense, as a former legion it would fit for them to have a large amount of drop ships to use further obviating the need for drop pods.

The army can't just end up as being regular space marines with a ton of extra stuff, they have to have some disadvantages relative to the normal C:SM chapters, maybe drop pod removal was considered a reasonable way to do that, though it would suck for anyone who has a lot of drop pods painted up.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I'd be very surprised if they lost Drop Pods, after all, the Drop Pod has a Dark Angels logo as part of the kit.

[DarkLink]

At least they can still take good land raiders, Chaos is stuck with the god relatively awful godhammer.

Actually, the Godhammer is pretty good. For Grey Knights. I don't think Chaos could properly utilize it. But it does absolutely have a purpose, trust me, I played Daemonhunters and so I spent most of 5th ed with multiple Godhammers in almost every list.

[Animus Silvanna]

Actually, the Godhammer is pretty good. For Grey Knights. I don't think Chaos could properly utilize it. But it does absolutely have a purpose, trust me, I played Daemonhunters and so I spent most of 5th ed with multiple Godhammers in almost every list.
I remember those days. I once had a GT list that had 7 landraiders. It was pretty awesome but sometimes went really bad if they had the means to crack open armor like that. Owell you live you learn.

[Wildcard]

Dark Angels with "Plasma Rounds"
Via Faeit 212:


via Master Sheol on Warseer
About DA models... A guy in the italian forum i go told that a friend of him saw some new DA models...
I think this must be taken with a huge amount of salt but this is the rumor...

DW box in DV style...
Veteran unit in PA + robes with guns an shields and a lot of blings...
Belial model in a very cool TDA...

The other guy who gave the rumors of multiple DW units said

Élite DW CC unit can purchase one of the following upgrades: BS5, some kind of reroll in H2H, some kind of bonus for DS...

Heavy support termies can swap PF for a second SB (assault4), sternguard ammo and peculiar heavy weapons (AC with "plasma" ammo or something like that) and take one of the following upgrades: BS5, some kind of reroll against veichles, full BS of charged...

Please take all this rumors with a HUGE amount of salt... They are not mine... I am just reporting and translating them from italian sources...


Str 7 ap2 assault cannons.. Who dares to say any bad things of grey knights anymore :)

BS 5 Terminators with assault 4 stormbolters that include sternguard mags..

None of our team is getting DA, but still i am a bit afraid what will become of that codex..

[Absolon]

many rumors stated the DA would be in the next issue of WD. Since the issue officially released yesterday. Can anyone say if they were included or not. Hopefully not everyone WD is as delayed as we are hearing they are going to be in this part of the world

[RGilbert26]

No it's Hobbit next month so no DA, if we're getting DA in January then when WD comes out beginning of said month we'll know for sure :p

[David Blumenthal]

Do the rumors always get so wacky right up until the release? I just ask because this is the first time that I've been on a forum before a release.

[Animus Silvanna]

Yeah sometimes then right out of left field "Luthor will be an HQ choice that unlocks inner circle as troops, also has eternal warrior and 3++ and lion sword that wounds on 2+ at AP 1." an outrageous claim that is almost always a ruse. You just don't know until everyone knows really. anything up until then is just setting yourself up for a let down.

[Aspire to Glory]

Yeah sometimes then right out of left field "Luthor will be an HQ choice that unlocks inner circle as troops, also has eternal warrior and 3++ and lion sword that wounds on 2+ at AP 1." an outrageous claim that is almost always a ruse. You just don't know until everyone knows really. anything up until then is just setting yourself up for a let down.

Ah, ok. I figured. I can glean what seems to be the most sensible from the existing rumors. The one that I care most about, though, is the actual release date. Heh.

Seems to be January if no other weirdness occurs. Though I wonder why there haven't been any glimpses of the new minis at conventions and such. I guess to not overshadow current releases.

Oh, well.

[Dalleron]

If you want a glimpse of the forthcoming DA models, its out there in the Dark Vengence box set. I would expect them DA flavour models to be pretty close to those models.

[Bigred]

via Italian forum: GWtilea


- Whirlwind will get recut with a third missile rack with a single big missile (AA skyhammer option?)
- Two new flyers - one smaller and one bigger (rumored Darktalon and Nephilim from BL book?)

[Farseer Uthiliesh]

Just noticed that the codex is gone from Dicebucket's website. Anyone else noticed DA items vanishing from other sites?

[jonsgot]

Yep While I was writing this http://chaptermasters.com/spoof-review-january-white-dwarf-370/ I noticed The Metal Death Wing Terminator is not longer available on the GW website!

So it has begun!

[jonsgot]

Doh and apparently hasn't been since May and the Codex is still available. There goes that theory then!

[Zweischneid]

Dark Angels Pictures Leaked (http://blog.pinsofwar.net/dark-angels-pictures-leaked/)

Dark Angel pics leaked.



https://s3.amazonaws.com/pinsofwar2/Blog+Pictures/Ravenwing+Landspeeder.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/pinsofwar2/Blog+Pictures/RavenWing+Flyer.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/pinsofwar2/Blog+Pictures/DeathWing.jpg

[Kirsten]

ooooh, funky

I can definitely use that fighter, going to have to get one of those

[Fizzybubela]

Holy s!!t

[Kenneth Lund]

Your welcome for the pictures :D

[Houghten]

Thoughts, in no particular order:

- That shrine on the back of the land speeder looks like it counts-as a totally awesome sound system.

- Well, now we know why Forge World withdrew the Aquila.

- Plasma land speeder! Damn you GW, I did it first!

- Ravenwing black knights! with a special rule "It's Only a Flesh Wound" that grants 3+ FNP!

- About bloody time Belial had a model.

- Please tell me those Terminators are plastic and not Finecast.

[Kenneth Lund]

They are plastic. And a multi kit. Command group and knights in one box

[Kirsten]

I think the plasma cannon variant of the speeder would look better without the front cupola. Need better pics of that Belial model, he looks bloody awful there, like an old man shouting get off my land

[Kenneth Lund]

Sadly his pose does noget get better when your looking in the WD..

But look on the bright side.. Terminator Plasma Cannons :D

[Zweischneid]

Credit added (http://blog.pinsofwar.net/dark-angels-pictures-leaked/) (if you're Dakka's ZombieDK?)

Sorry, was nearly livebloggin this as you (?) added pics to Dakka!

[Kirsten]

I think the land speeder would look ten times better with a normal front instead of that weird set up, the back end looks awesome though. belial still looks awful, keep going back and checking, and it still sucks. he looks old and frail and confused, and is standing amazingly straight and upright.

[Cpt Codpiece]

£45 for a storm talon with wings? erm NO thanks, £27and a sheet or two of plasticard will do the trick.

landspeeder looks very wrong, pintel guy has no legroom.

new termies look very preheresyable :)

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I like the dark angel stormshields, they are really pretty

[Psychosplodge]

That stormtalon variant looks a damn sight better than the standard one.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It.... isn't a variant...

[Psychosplodge]

It still looks better than that ridiculous chin turreted abomination.

[Defenestratus]

It.... isn't a variant...

Really?

Could have fooled me.

[Mr Mystery]

Looks more like an adapted Aquila Lander to my eyes...

Also...Mk6 Apothecary helmet. Interesting bit that!

[Bigred]

Latest WD rules added to OP

[White Tiger88]

Latest WD rules added to OP

Troop landspeeders?????? WHAT IS GW SMOKING NOW DAYS!!!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Probably whatever you are on. :p

[Psychosplodge]

Don't tell me WT has joined the development team? O_o

[Wildcard]

Whos WT?

Jeremy Vetok is supposed to be the author behind Dark Angels Codex (according to faeit):


Jeremy is the author of the Skaven armybook, as well as the Orcs and Goblin book. He also was apparently part of the team for the Ogre book as well. So Welcome Jeremy Vetock to the bigtime...... to 40k. We cannot wait to read your work with the Dark Angels codex.

[Psychosplodge]

WhiteTiger88? lol

I hope he isn't I haven't been impressed with his column and doubt his ability to pen a decent codex based on that exposure to his writing.

[eldargal]

His WFB books are generally quite good, I like his column too, nothing earth shattering but enjoyable enough. More interesting than a lot of hobby blogs.

[Psychosplodge]

is he a fantasy author then?

[eldargal]

Yep, he wrote Skaven and Ogre Kingdoms and possibly another one? I forget.

[Bigred]

OP updated - latest termy info from White Dwarf

[Learn2Eel]

via White Dwarf / Faeit 212 12-26-2012

Deathwing Knights
WS:5
T:5 when packed in close together
Smite (one use ability which lasts one turn)
Optional Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport

Deathwing Terminators
1 per 5 may upgrade to the following:
Heavy bolter
Plasma cannon
Assault cannon
Cyclone missile launcher
Optional Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport

Bloody hell. Those Deathwing Knights sound insane. Thankfully that Smite ability is only once per game and for one round. Still....T5 if they bunch up? WS5 with power mauls and storm shields? Even massed bolter fire - the usual way of killing storm-shield Terminators - will struggle if they are T5 when bunched.
Deathwing are about what I expect, though taking two heavy weapons in a 10-strong squad sounds pretty dirty.
I guess we have to wait and see what the costs are. If those rumoured ones were true (5 Deathwing is 220, 5 Knights is 235), I guess that fits. Hopefully the upgrades for the Deathwing are appropriately priced.

Oh, and it looks like Dark Angels will be able to field masses of Land Raiders just like Blood Angels.

[DarkLink]

Until you hit them with a plasma cannon and get like 6 AP2 wounds.

[Wildcard]

FFS! Again Grey Knights, the best equipped and most well supplied force in the imperium gets the least amount of landraiders..

[Learn2Eel]

I guess there are always other factors to consider. If they know Plasma Cannons will be their main enemy, then don't bunch them up - in that situation you listed though, only 2 would die on average anyway. Then there is whether or not they are in a Land Raider, how many turns you get to shoot at them, etc. They sound dirty for the cost but I'm definitely not saying they are broken, they will die just like other Terminators. I guess you just have to be prepared to force their owner into choosing to bunch them up or spreading them out so that either your blast weapons or massed fire hurt them more.

I think their Smite ability also won't save them against certain other deathstars, and being a one-use only ability means the player has to be very careful with when they use it. Using one of my armies for example, an Iron Arm/Warp Speed Swarmlord would probably still rip them to shreds. Issue a challenge after they declare whether they are Smiting (though it depends on when you have to declare it of course), if they accept, they've just effectively wasted it, if they decline, that's one less hitting you. Assuming 2 for both Iron Arm and Warp Speed (so S/T 8, I8 and A6) and Preferred Enemy, you are still looking at five hits, five wounds and about three dead guys before they can attack. After that, whoever is left (assuming a five man squad and the character declined a challenge) attacks, getting one hit, wounding and it is a 50/50 chance the Swarmlord saves it. Even if the Swarmlord fails its save, it still has 4 wounds left and will proceed to kill the remainder of the squad.

It will be interesting to see their full rules though.

[Learn2Eel]

FFS! Again Grey Knights, the best equipped and most well supplied force in the imperium gets the least amount of landraiders..


A friend of mine told me that apparently Grey Knights don't really use vehicles, or more-so they prefer either deep-striking in or going on foot. If that is true, it isn't all that surprising.
Also, having the most Land Raiders really isn't something to be proud of....

[Learn2Eel]

Apparently Deathwing Terminators have to pay 5 points for the TH/SS combination. Sounds right to me. With their apparent higher base cost (220 points for a squad) it sounds like the codex author is doing a good job of balancing them. Taking a Heavy Flamer - according to another person with the WD it is a heavy flamer, not a heavy bolter - /Assault Cannon/Plasma Cannon replaces your Storm Bolter, whilst a Cyclone Missile Launcher is still separate.

Sammael's sword is AP2, though it is just Strength as user. I guess that makes sense. The Chaos codex had a few weapons that strike at Initiative order and were AP2.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Wow, Sammael you sexy, sexy man.

[Wildcard]

Also, having the most Land Raiders really isn't something to be proud of....

Say that to my 35 terminators :P


A friend of mine told me that apparently Grey Knights don't really use vehicles, or more-so they prefer either deep-striking in or going on foot. If that is true, it isn't all that surprising.

Thats really fun. I know super powers does have serious amounts of nukes, yet they don't use them, but does that kind of mentality have to be included in a game :)

[Mr Mystery]

Well. Yeah! Keeps the various Chapters different!

[Learn2Eel]

Say that to my 35 terminators :P



Thats really fun. I know super powers does have serious amounts of nukes, yet they don't use them, but does that kind of mentality have to be included in a game :)

Remembering that Grey Knights don't have access to a lot of stuff other Loyalists can take. They get their own stuff to compensate. Storm Ravens, Dreadknights, Inquisitors, Henchmen, etc. Not to mention all those lovely upgrades and unique weaponry they get. If that bit about the background is true, and from what I've seen it is, I don't see how it is really an issue. Plus, again, you get Storm Ravens, which are far more useful than Land Raiders anyway.

You also have to look at differentiating each chapter/codex, as Mr Mystery points out. Grey Knights are completely different to other Space Marine codices, they have lots of stuff you can't get anywhere else. They lose out on some stuff that others get but gain a whole slew of awesome wargear.

Just saying, it isn't like you are losing out elsewhere.....

In any case, it looks like Dark Angels have to pay for an upgrade to make their Land Raiders dedicated transports for both Deathwing and Deathwing Knights.

[Dominic]

In any case, it looks like Dark Angels have to pay for an upgrade to make their Land Raiders dedicated transports for both Deathwing and Deathwing Knights.

If deathwing assault ends up being like it is rumoured to be, I doubt deathwing would take land raiders, not when you can show up en masse exactly when (and where to some degree) you want

[Learn2Eel]

It is the thought that counts. A lot of people still swear by Land Raiders, so it doesn't hurt.

[DrLove42]

Lots of rules leaked today (good seeing as WD told us nothing)


From Faeit 212


collated by Callum

- The special rule "Inner Circle" gives hatred against Chaos Space Marines and Courage.
- The table of Warlord includes options to increase the turboboost of bikes, +1 / -1 to the roll of reserves etc...
- Belial can change their weapons as before. And yes, he does make Terminators troops.
- Sammael makes RW bikes troops as, also.
- Azrael gains +2S and AP3 for his sword. makes both RW and DW troops.
- No specific psychic Dark Angels. Ezekiel has a power that is S4 AP 2, D3 shots, I believe.

Deathwing Knights
- +1 To their Toughness if they are base to base.

Land Speeder Revenge
- The Plasma Storm Battery is S7 AP2, 3 small blast or 1 large blast.

Land Speeder Shroud (80 pts)
- Has the dark rule, which gives +2 to it's cover save.
- A 6 "units gain Stealth.

Ram Ravenwing
- Rift Cannon: Strength 5, AP-, blast, blindness.

Nephilim (about 150/160 pts) According to Warseer 180.
- Avenger Mega Bolter: Strength 6, AP4, heavy 5
- Missiles : Strength 6, AP4
- Unrelenting Hunter: Allows exchanging a result of the enemy weaponry destroyed by an immobilized result.

Black Knights Ravenwing (126 unit 3)
- Hammer Corvus: Strength +1, AP-, Rending.
- Plasma Talons 18" plasma guns.

Command Squad Ravenwing.
- Same points as the Black Knights.

Ravenwing (80 points a unit of 3)

via Baret
80 points for a 3man bike squad! 27 points for each additional member. They still come with scouts, have special combat squad splitting (3/3 bikes and the AB and speeder separately (so 3 scoring and a vehicle). 126 points base for those fancy command bikes, their plasma is only 18" though..


Termie squads are 210, have split fire rules, can take 10 members with heavy weapons per 5. They are 44 Points for each additional member.

Everything has a version of stubborn.

via Archibald_TK on Warseer
(the one where we got some infos during the SoB WD release). I was reluctant to post them as the other posters in the thread mentioned it comes from a new rumourmonger but after seeing what the German forum says I suppose they may be true (or they may be coming from the same source so salt and all of that)


A brief summary of what we didn't know before:
- Azrael giving 4++ to his squad; has a S6 P3 weapon
- Warlord table gives +1d6 to turboboost distance/reroll running roll to the Warlord unit, furious charge, +1/-1 to reserve rolls, fearless, he mentions one giving "insensible" which I cannot translate as it's not a rule I know, it sounds like the beginning of the French FnP rule "insensible à la douleur" but I highly doubt he was referring to that
- Nephilim close to 160 pts with upgrade, gatling gun same sucky stats as discussed before
- The weapon of the Deathwing Knights champion is +2S AP3 and cannot be switched for something else
- Inner Circle mentioned as being Fearless, Hate (CSM) like in the other rumour
- Caliban Halberd +2S AP2 strikes at Init
- Access to Divination
- He mention later that while he didn't really check for that, the little boxes that you usually see in the army list allowing to switch FOC slots, he only remember them next to the 3 SC

via chizal on Warseer

In store atm with the codex. all i said is conformed. bane of the traitor(-1ap vs c:csm in cc) is deathwing knights weapons only .

Neph fighter is 180 with either weapon option

azrael does unlock both wings as troops
He has to be in the primary detachment

Also inner circle is fearless and PE c:csm
Blade of caliban is str+1 ap3 unwieldy but a lot cheaper then a normal pweapon

cammand squads are fixed number and can be taken 1 per hq of the same type

Special items include conversion and displacer and power fields. random stat monster slayer power sword and a weapon thats str+3ap3 bane blind concusive

Armoury in the codex called the armory of the rock. also small tidbit is all missle launchers can be upgraded to flak apart fron the whirlwind which got screwed. also dev squad are super cheap. 5man squad with 4 multi meltas 110pts lol



Are the fixed numbers 5-man for Deathwing and 3-man for Ravenwing?
Correct 5&3


Black sword missiles S6 AP4? It wasnt the megabolter with these stats?
both have those stats. bolter r48 missles r36 also rhe fighter has missle lock spacial rule i. the army list but has no blast missle. some silly mistake as it makes no sense we hope


belial 190 any load out
land raiders with deathwing vehicle now have the venerable rule so may reroll pen results


do Land Raiders have to pay extra to get the deathwing vehicle rule?
30 extra and has to have it

No storms. no homers on scouts.chaps &libs can take bikes. only gramd master unlock troops. can have a techmarine per hq taken


Do standard bikers have Skilled Rider?
Nope only black knights


Veng strike gives all models twin linked shots the turn they deepstrike
smite is str+6 ap2 one use. Doesnt say if it to one attack or all that turn.
The fighter has missle lock in the points section at the back but does not have any blast missles so must be a mis pri t.
The deathwing vehicle rule is just anotber name for venerable


If it says something like “Once per game the DW knights can make an attack at ……….” People would start questioning is that in addition to normal attacks? Does it get used for all attacks? Does it replace their attacks with one attack?
Here’s hoping we don’t need to argue about it for 2 months…….
It has its own sub profile str+6ap2 melee one use only


What about named characters?
Same old 5. Some new rules like azrael can choose his warlord trait from the 6 new ones. unlocks both wings as troops. also him or belial lets you not scatter with his unit when deepstriking. had to leave and there was no way to sneak the book out the store

Ezeke is mastery 3 has to take mindworm and then rolls twice on any except biomancy

Chaplain one gets instant death in melee but no ap or his crozius

oh and samiel is the only eternal warrior again


Why is it only ever people who can't spell who leak things?

Also LOL at the aircraft that GW said would rule the skies. S6 on all its weapons? The Vendetta continues to laugh in everyones faces

[Simian]

Any one else noticed that azrael and ezekiel have vanished from the GW Dark angels HQ page.... release in finecast soon do you think? (you can still find the metal models if you search for them but they're no longer on the main pages.)