Space Wolves in 6th: Shoot or Assault?

[Saint_Anger]

Hi all,

I do wonder what is the most potential way to play Space Wolves. Is it a good shooting army or close combat one? With the mark of Wulfen & Wolf standard, grey hunter squad almost beat anything. But with the 6th rule stating you cannot assault in the turn you disembark from rhino, is it more likely that SW will tend to be more shooting rather than close combat? Three squads of Long Fang are very powerful distance enemy to deal with, aren’t they?:confused:

[Vashtek]

Shoot them, overwatch them, then beat them up in close combat when they charge you. Works for me :)

[Anggul]

They're equipped to do anything, so just do whatever is best against the current opponent. Shoot them down and if you get the chance, charge and crush them. It's worth sticking a Wolf Standard on them for so cheap.

[incenerate101]

Space wolves have always been an assault army and still are. Their shooting is that of an average space marine even with the Long Fangs ability to split fire. In 5th they were an assaulting army, but now in 6th most armies i have seen are a counter assaulting army. With their Special Rule to always act as charging (granting you pass a leadership check) they can move up in their Rhinos, disembark and shoot and not be able to assault with minimal risk to the units in the squad due to their 3+ Armor Save on top of still being able to rip almost anything apart in close combat.

The way i play my wolves is ill move up to about midfield and take positions around the board that allow me LoS and range on 90% of my opponents army and shoot away. This forces your opponent into cover or forces them to move up allowing me to either move into assault range, shoot and assault, but against fast armies like Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Orcs, Blood Angels, ect. Ill sit and gun line them and take the assault from them and still do just as well in combat.

[evilamericorp]

Space wolves have always been an assault army and still are. Their shooting is that of an average space marine even with the Long Fangs ability to split fire. In 5th they were an assaulting army, but now in 6th most armies i have seen are a counter assaulting army.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Maybe if you're a sucker!

I have 10 Cyclone missile launchers and 50 stormbolters in my SW army; now that 6th is here, they all get the precision shots rule. I can shoot just about anything off the board. Punching things is for Orks.

[incenerate101]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Maybe if you're a sucker!

I have 10 Cyclone missile launchers and 50 stormbolters in my SW army; now that 6th is here, they all get the precision shots rule. I can shoot just about anything off the board. Punching things is for Orks.

Because you are playing loganwing. A net list that is strong but has so many holes it's not even funny. If you are wining with a list like that I feel bad for you. A loganwing army will get destroyed by any player that can out maneuver you.

[Saint_Anger]

I have 10 Cyclone missile launchers and 50 stormbolters in my SW army.

Can you clarify how you do that in what size of army list is? Five 10-man squad of Wolf Guard Terminators with Logan as HQ for 2000 pts? If yes, your list would be very boring in my opinion.

[incenerate101]

Can you clarify how you do that in what size of army list is? Five 10-man squad of Wolf Guard Terminators with Logan as HQ for 2000 pts? If yes, your list would be very boring in my opinion.

Yeah that's what loganwing is.

[Chumbalaya]

Shoot them, overwatch them, then beat them up in close combat when they charge you. Works for me

Wolves don't have the means to rush into assault unless you load up on TWC, but they excel at controlling midfield with bolters and plasma in cheap units that can fight reasonably well in assault. Long Fangs just round them out with supporting long range firepower. SW101 is essentially clogging up midfield with Grey Hunters while Long Fangs sit and shoot, adding support units as needed.

Thread solved.

As for this little comment

Because you are playing loganwing. A net list that is strong but has so many holes it's not even funny. If you are wining with a list like that I feel bad for you. A loganwing army will get destroyed by any player that can out maneuver you.

That's so wrong it isn't funny. Well, maybe a little. Good Loganwings are not pure Terminators. That's a ton of unnecessary points wasted on armor when you can get by with just 1 Terminator sporting the cyclone. Loganwing is unique take on the Wolfy style that typically eschews masses of bodies at midfield in favor of superior firepower at range with tons of cyclones supplementing your Fangs' firepower. It's a more elite army, but definitely my preferred set up. Hell, with allies you can easily plug in bodies from IG to make up the numbers and add in even more long-ranged firepower.

[evilamericorp]

Can you clarify how you do that in what size of army list is? Five 10-man squad of Wolf Guard Terminators with Logan as HQ for 2000 pts? If yes, your list would be very boring in my opinion.

I only have 2 terminators in each squad with cyclones and power fists. Power armor wolf guard with storm bolters are 21 points each, which is a bargain for a SM vet profile with countercharge and 2 bolt shots out to 24". 5 squads with Logan and a divination rune priest comes out to 2000 nicely.

As for the "Net List" jab, I've never seen or heard of anyone running a copy of my list. Show me where on the net anyone has 40 PA wolf guard with storm bolters...

[Filthspew]

I do wonder what is the most potential way to play Space Wolves. Is it a good shooting army or close combat one

Both! :D

Wolves can be kitted for either, and will tear most armies a new one.

[spaceman91]

If i can throw my 2 pence in. I have always preferred my wolves to be shooty and wait for the charge. only lost one game out of the twenty i played before being asked by friends to chill the wolves out for a bit. Before any says i must be using a dirty list it really wasn't, counter attack is just funny.

[Tusleplopp]

Might as well focus on shooting. you beat face anyhow ;)
Lots of bodies is always nice ;)

[thelion]

balance it is all about balance set your sw army up to do both b/c for the most part with a space wolf army (really any space marine army) any unit that is good at one is at least ok at the other so as long as you don't over focus on one or the other you sould be fine.

[incenerate101]

As for the "Net List" jab, I've never seen or heard of anyone running a copy of my list. Show me where on the net anyone has 40 PA wolf guard with storm bolters...

1. A net list is an army list that is most commonly used for said army. Not a list on the Internet.

2. Did I say your list was copied somewhere? No. Your list is a standard strategy used by most space wolf players to lazy to come up with a unique tactic. ( not saying youre lazy ). Storm bolter cyclone launcher spam has been played 100's of times in my local GW store alone ( considering I played a similar list for a year straight).

3. My point is that this common strategy is easily beat in 5th and even more so in 6th. For example DE armies that are shooting focused will destroy it, MEQ armies will rip you apart considering most of your shooting is strength 4, nidzilla will destroy you. And that is just a few examples.

(all points are based on the assumption that you and your opponent have average dice rolls)

[DarkLink]

I don't think I've ever seen a competitive assault SW list. I've seen plenty with assault elements, but always backed up by strong shooting. To say that SWs are an assault army and not a shooty army is rather ignorant of the results of the last few years of tournament play.


1. A net list is an army list that is most commonly used for said army. Not a list on the Internet.

By definition, a net list is a template for a particular army build propagated by the internet and thus widely used. So, by definition, the internet is involved (that's why it's called a net list).

Including some terminators with Cyclone Missile Launchers, in and of itself, is not enough to qualify as a net list. A net list has a carefully defined structure honed to a particular strategy, which is why its proponents tout it as ideal. I can't say I've seen many army lists consisting of mass Wolf Guard Terminators online, so I question its existence as a net list.



2. Did I say your list was copied somewhere? No.

You just heavily implied it (by bring it up in the first place), and then heavily implied that he was a lesser player for it (by the tone with which you brought it up), and then heavily implied that any competent player with a "balanced" list (read: not-net list, whatever that means by your use of the term) could beat him, a gross over-simplification on multiple levels.



Your list is a standard strategy used by most space wolf players to lazy to come up with a unique tactic. ( not saying youre lazy ).

If you don't want to call him lazy, then you might want to word this sentence more carefully. Specifically, I think what you mean to say is "some lazy space wolf players use net lists, though you're not one of them". It's still a jump to assume that he is, or isn't, a "lazy" player (again, whatever you even mean by that) based on nothing more than the general idea of his army list.



Storm bolter cyclone launcher spam has been played 100's of times in my local GW store alone ( considering I played a similar list for a year straight).

Anecdotal evidence. I've only seen Terminator heavy Loganwing once or twice, so in my limited experience it's very rare. Nor have I seen that specific list toted as particularly potent, so again I'm not sure if it would even qualify as a net list based on the Space Wolf lists I've seen online. The SW net lists I have seen are usually either missile launcher spam, or razorback spam, but never storm bolter spam specifically. That fact that you've played it, and that someone on the internet might have conceivably made up the list and posted it, does not qualify it as a net list.


3. My point is that this common strategy is easily beat in 5th and even more so in 6th. For example DE armies that are shooting focused will destroy it, MEQ armies will rip you apart considering most of your shooting is strength 4, nidzilla will destroy you. And that is just a few examples.


Most of those examples are unqualified, nor is the fact that a relative hard counter for a list exists. Anyone can tailor a list to hard counter just about anything, and even the most "balanced" list has bad matchups. Either way, assuming his army list sucks with little more than a vague idea of what's in it is poor logic. Grey Knights get by very well with their "mere str 4" storm bolters, because they have plenty of psycannons, just like Space Wolves get by thanks to missile launchers.

[thelion]

as always a well written and well thought out post dark. and i have to agree in this case. as a death wing player i tend to use very term heavy lists and i can tell you that it dose give its own challenges. such as the lesser numbers you are playing with makes it so that every time you pay a price it is a high price. but on the same token you can lay some real pain on units that are not ready for that kind of fight(ig platoons usuly get the crap kicked out of them when i get to them). but in the end with an army like that you have to get in and assault. then push from assault to assault. this kinda tactic can be difficult against more balanced armys. and against power shooting armys you are going to feel allot of pain but it can work. at the same time in team play it can be a very very usefull (i have a friend who plays raven guard and a scout heavy list so most of the time a can put 2 to 3 sqds on an obj in the first turn) the big thing to rember with an army list like that is that you need to play very very aggressively or you will just flounder

[Learn2Eel]

Space Wolves do both really well, which is why they are a monstrous army to face in the hands of a capable opponent. They have probably the best troops in the game for sheer versatility and value.
My preferred style of play (competitively) would be to move up in rhinos with Grey Hunters, jump out and rapid-fire with boltguns/plasma/melta/etc, then Overwatch any charging enemies, then beat them to death with Counter Attack. No other army can do stuff like that and still weather heavy punishment.

On a personal note, I was wondering what people think of taking a themed Thunderwolf/Fenrisian Wolf army? It's not suppossed to be competitive, but I have a few questions about it;
a) In the list I came up with (1500), I had 60 Fenrisian Wolves (6 units of 10). Is this a good number of Wolves?
b) What is the best way to equip Thunderwolf Cavalry? Considering the 'themed' list I came up with consists only of Wolves/Thunderwolves, is it worth giving them all Storm Shields to soak up inevitable anti-tank firepower? Also, is it worth paying for Thunder Hammers on all of them or only on a few?
c) Is taking a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf to complement Canis a good idea (i.e. one HQ for every Thunderwolf pack)?

It's an expensive, funny and themed (i.e. not competitive) army list I cooked up for when I eventually do Space Wolves (even being a dedicated Thousand Sons player, I love wolves (the real life ones)).