Leftover Marines

[ElectricPaladin]

As I'm sure you know if you read any of my other threads, my primary armies are Blood Angels and Tau. However, since a lot of my models come from trades and lot boys, I have a number of leftover bits and bobs, figures that don't really match the Blood Angels way of making war - specifically, Marines with boltguns, shooty terminators, drop pods, and scouts (I guess they could be useful in a Blood Angels army, but I haven't used them in that way, so far).

You may also already know that I've decided to use some of these spare marines to build a small Blood Ravens detachment to use with my Tau.

What you don't know - because I decided just now - is that I've decided to give into temptation and use these leftover models to make an entire Blood Ravens army. This is going to stay a strictly tertiary project for me, but it could be fun. It hurts me to have so many potentially gorgeous models just lying around, and this could be a fun way to use them.

Anyway, I'm still inexperienced in the ways of Codex chapters, so I thought I'd come to you for advice. Here is a list of the models I have:

1 Librarian w/Force Axe and Bolt Pistol
13 Marines w/Boltguns
1 Marine w/... I think it's a combi-Melta?
1 Marine w/Meltagun
1 Marine w/Multi-Melta
1 Marine w/Power Axe and Bolt Pistol
5 Scouts w/Sniper Rifles
4 Scouts w/Boltguns
1 Scout w/Missile Launcher
5 Terminators
• 1 Sergeant w/Power Sword/Storm Bolter
• 2 Power Fist/Storm Bolter
• 1 Chain Fist/Storm Bolter
• 1 Power fist/Assault Cannon
• And I have the bit for a Cyclone Missile Launcher, currently not attached to anything.
2 Drop Pods

Here's the best list I've come up with so far.

1000 Points

HQ
•*Librarian (Epistolary)

Elites
• 5 Terminators w/1 Chain Fist, 1 Assault Cannon
• 5 Sternguard Vets, Combi-Melta Sergeant in a Drop Pod

Troops
•*10 Tactical Marines, Sergeant w/Power Axe and Teleport Homer, 1 Meltagun, 1 Multi-Melta, in a Drop Pod
• 10 Scouts w/Camo Cloaks and Boltguns, Sergeant w/Teleport Homer, 1 Missile Launcher, 5 Sniper Rifles

Scouts infiltrate, one of the Drop Pods makes a Turn One Drop Pod Assault (whichever I need more). The Librarian drops with the Tactical Marines. Between my Scouts and my Tacs being able to Combat Squad out, I have lots of objective holding power.

I have two main questions:
1) In general, what do you think of this list, given my limitations (the models I have on hand)
2) On the other hand, if you were going to buy something to add to this list, what would it be?

[Seirin]

For tacticals, I find rhinos to be more useful than pods on the whole, as you can camp your squads inside until last turn (assuming rhino survival) or use them as LoS shields. On the whole I'm not a drop pod fan...you may have noticed...haha.

Ok for your list!

First thing, give your scout sgt melta bombs - the amount of times you'll find them useful is unreal.

Overall the list looks quite fun, though perhaps a little unfocused.

Biggest pros: strong midfield presence, fair anti-armour ability and a strong combat unit (termies)

Biggest cons: Mobility; once deployed everything is footslogging, fragile: no metal boxes to protect everything while they footslog, ranged shooting; barring the scouts and their 1 ML, you have little long ranged firepower.


What I'd add:
Terminator libby - more durable and can deep strike with termies.
More tactical marines - 10 man squads in rhinos running around, maybe with melta or plasmas are fun.
Dreadnoughts: cheap and useful, gear it for close up and theres a use for a drop pod
Landspeeders: Some dislike them, I personally love em. 60pts for 2 heavy bolters on a super mobile chassis? yes please!
Techmarines or Thunderfire cannon - if you play the bunker down game, bolstered ruins are awesome. Cannon has uses against hordes too.
Predators: Similar to speeders, cheap and cheerful and lots of shooty.
Devastators: Not as good as long fangs, but 150pts for 4 missile launchers is still good.

[ElectricPaladin]

Thanks for your input! However, I should add that I've discovered/converted a few more models for this army, based in part on some advice I got on Dakka. I now have:

HQ
•*Librarian

Elites
•*5 Terminators, 1 Assault Cannon, 1 Chain Fist, 1 Power Sword
• 10 Sternguard Veterans, 3 Combi-Meltas, in a Drop Pod

Troops
• 10 Tactical Marines, 1 Meltagun, 1 Multi-Melta, in a Drop Pod
• 5 Scouts w/Camo Cloaks, 4 Sniper Rifles
• 5 Scouts w/Camo Cloaks, 1 Missile Launcher

Fast Attack
• 2 Landspeeder Typhoons

As for adding to the army, it definitely seems like even with the Typhoons, long-range high-strength shooting is still my weak point. I'd also like to snag a Heavy Support slot to take advantage of the "Heavy Support can claim objectives" mission. I also like the idea of adding something striking and sexy, like a Thunderfire Cannon or Dreadnought in a third Drop Pod, but I kind of think something more conventional, like a Predator or a Devastator squad, will serve me better.

The appeal of a Predator is also that it will start in play, preventing this increasingly Drop Pod and teleport-heavy army from being shot off the board on turn one!

Anyway, I've got some time to contemplate this decision. Thanks again.

[ElectricPaladin]

Actually, it occurs to me that I've never really given any thought to which tank I want. My other Space Marines army is Blood Angels, and the answer in that army is almost always "Predator" and by "Predator" I mean "Baal Predator." For this army, what do you think would be best?

• Autocannon Predator? Heavy Bolter or Lascannon Sponsons? Lascannon Predator?
• Whirlwind?
• Vindicator? With or without siege shield?

More options than I'd previously imagined. Which do you suggest?

EDIT: Also, for the record, I just found a pair of missile launcher guys (primed red, but with no BA iconography). I could add them to my Sternguard squad. It feels bad to take two Boltguns out of the squad, but an extra pair of Missile Launchers does add some of that long-range fire you were talking about, and I can Combat Squad them with the three combi-melta guys to make a vehicle-hunting squad, or squad them with three bolter guys to make what's basically a small Devastator squad.

[Seirin]

Sternguard first: I personally prefer boltguns to all options - combi-weapons if you have the points. Cheapest option and special ammo = win. IMO use those MLs for a start on a devastator squad.

For tanks...

Whirlwinds are crap, essentially. Avoid.
Vindicators are OK, but don't exactly count as 'long range' support... Plus if you can hit your target...it can charge you.
Predators are my choice here, and autocannon/heavy bolters ftw. 85 pts for a fair stream of fire is quite a bargin. 86 with searchlight. Autocannon/las sponsoons is an option though if you really need more anti-armour.

For the landspeeders..can you convert them to tornado patterns? Twin multi meltas or heavy bolters are cheap (60pts) but fun. Typhoons are - IMO - only for when your army needs varied fire - option for both infantry and vehicles - which your army really doesn't - you have meltas, but also have plenty of regular fire.

[ElectricPaladin]

Sternguard first: I personally prefer boltguns to all options - combi-weapons if you have the points. Cheapest option and special ammo = win. IMO use those MLs for a start on a devastator squad.


I basically agree with you, I just thought it would be a good way to stick some extra long-range fire into this list. Frankly, though, they aren't likely to be that useful. More often than not I'm going to be throwing my Librarian with Telekinesis/Pyromancy into the Sternguard squad and dropping them within rapid-fire range of my opponent's hardest target. Long-range fire won't help them much in that situation.



Whirlwinds are crap, essentially. Avoid.
Vindicators are OK, but don't exactly count as 'long range' support... Plus if you can hit your target...it can charge you.
Predators are my choice here, and autocannon/heavy bolters ftw. 85 pts for a fair stream of fire is quite a bargin. 86 with searchlight. Autocannon/las sponsoons is an option though if you really need more anti-armour.


Noted, noted, and noted.

However, don't you think that the Lascannons/Bolters version is best? Reliable lascannon shots at extreme range, bolters for infantry? It's a little more expensive, but I think lascannons are far superior to autocannons, and bolter sponsons will allow the tank to function when volume of fire is more important than quality of fire. In my experience, I'm almost never going to be leaving the tank stationary, anyway. I'll be playing cat-and-mouse with my opponent's anti-tank. Given that, having a mixed loadout seems like the best idea.



For the landspeeders..can you convert them to tornado patterns? Twin multi meltas or heavy bolters are cheap (60pts) but fun. Typhoons are - IMO - only for when your army needs varied fire - option for both infantry and vehicles - which your army really doesn't - you have meltas, but also have plenty of regular fire.

Here, I really disagree with you. Typhoons have the advantage of range, which is important for such a fragile vehicle. All the Tornado armaments (except heavy bolters) require getting a little too close. And, my Typhoons also have heavy bolters, so they're versatile!

More importantly, Typhoons do fill the roll you posted above that I'm lacking: long-range firepower.

[Seirin]

Typhoons: noted, tbh I think its another example of my personal bias overruling my evaluation..lol.

For the libby/sterns I'd suggest Divination. Prescience for sternguard rerolling shots will outweigh any offensive ability you'd gain from telepathy or pyromancy - and prescience is the sig power, so no chance of failing the rolls.

As for preds, its mostly a point vs effect thing, and a decision as to what your goal is. Are you trying to play anti vehicle or anti infantry? A twin-linked las with HB sponsoons is 130pts, autocannon and las spons is 120pts. Obviously 2 lascannons beats 1 twin linked cannon, and its cheaper too. The twin-linked/bolter version has 1 anti-armour weapon and 2 lighter weapons, whereas the autocannon/las version has all 3 weapons able to break most armour - and can still double as an anti-infantry platform if needed.

In short...las/bolter is a jack of all trades pred, auto/las is a purist armour vehicle while still retaining anti-infantry power (though ideally used for harder, smaller targets).

[ElectricPaladin]

Something else I could do is field a pure dakka pred (auto/bolters) and a normal librarian. That gives me enough points for an aegis defense line and quad gun, into which I could deploy my scouts (probably the missile launcher squad, as the missile launcher and the quad gun share a range), giving my list a defense against fliers...

[Seirin]

Could be interesting! Libby would be slightly less effective but assuming he has prescience then thats all he really needs after all.

Only thing I could suggest, rather than your scouts, what about deploying the pred behind the ADL? Make it more survivable while the scouts can benefit from less substantial cover.

[ElectricPaladin]

Could be interesting! Libby would be slightly less effective but assuming he has prescience then thats all he really needs after all.

Only thing I could suggest, rather than your scouts, what about deploying the pred behind the ADL? Make it more survivable while the scouts can benefit from less substantial cover.

True, but preds can't fire gun emplacements. Scout sergeants, on the other hand... That said, there's probably something to the idea of making sure the pred can hide behind part of the aegis line.

[Seirin]

True dat', though its also not a certainty that you'll be facing fliers - thus the predline might be more useful overall, situation dependent.

[ElectricPaladin]

True dat', though its also not a certainty that you'll be facing fliers - thus the predline might be more useful overall, situation dependent.

Good point.

Though, don't forget, since the quad gun has both Skyfire and Interceptor, it can be fired at both fliers and ground targets with impunity.

That said, you've got a good point about also playing hide-the-pred.

[Seirin]

Its something I sometimes do for fun with 2 raiders and a shrouding GK libby when I really wanna be irritating ¬¬ works a treat. Better still a bolstered ruin but..can't be picky :D.

True on quad gun. Shame how..fragile scouts can be though.

[ElectricPaladin]

Another Heavy fire support thought: land raider? A straight up land raider could make a good ride for my Terminators, or for another option, like a power unit made of Captain, Command Squad, Librarian, and anything else I can fit in there (Techmarine, to keep the Land Raider running?).

[Seirin]

Hmm. Land raiders are good, but honestly speaking they don't offer THAT much distance fire. Their strengths would be as you suggested - use as an assault vehicle. In which case then a redeemer might be better than a straight up raider as you'll be trying to play it 'in your face', lending more to the flamestorms than lascannons.

Only gripe with raiders is the cost tbh, pretty much the most durable tank in most senses, but also a full quarter of your points in 1k games, an eighth even in 2k games. Not saying don't take it, but if it's housing your primary game-winner unit you'll need to build around it.

As for contents..sitting both your HQ's and an expensive but fragile unit together smacks of 'all your eggs in one basket' and becomes a juicy target for anything and everything; great - if you didn't have whats likely 700pts tied up in that big 'shoot me' wagon. Try to keep the unit inside as cost effective as possible; you want em for combat? Use storm/hammer termies. Want em for Hit-and-run shooting? Maybe use a rhino or three.

Servo harness techies are great though (or can be, if your lucky with em).

[ElectricPaladin]

Terminator libby - more durable and can deep strike with termies.


I thought you'd be interested to hear that I've bought some bits: Grey Knights terminator, Grey Knights force stave, Grey Knights servo-skull. I'll be combining those with some terminator bits I already have to make a terminator librarian.

Should be fun.

[Seirin]

Hope it turns out well!