I Like the Sista Rant

[Drunkencorgimaster]

People have made the claim that Sisters are broken.
I have made claim that people are idiots. As often as possible.

Melissa has popped up with the "Sistas Rant" (like the above quote) in so many posts, I could not respond to them all and thought maybe this deserves its own post.

I actually am beginning to find her pretty funny. I think maybe she is just doing a little "lite trolling" but in an Andy-Kauffman-the-joke-is-on-you style. If you step back a moment and think about it, it is actually freakin' hilarious what she does. You can do a post "What is your favorite color for Tryanid toenails" and Melissa will show up and somehow turn it into a rant about the Sisters of Battle not getting a make-over. Has she ever miked it up with the big EE19? That might be interesting to say the least...

Melissa, if I just spilled the beans and ruined your fun, sorry.

I am probably violating some rule about commenting on other people with a post like this, so in case I get banned, Goodbye Adramelech, Crazyredpraetorian, Duke, Kanaellars, Buffo, and all my other posse-faves. Nice knowing you.

-Oh yeah, if I do get banned take a vote on bringing me back. Vote Drunkencorgis!!!, vote DCM!, I love you guys!!!!

[Katie Drake]

Sir, are you drunk?

[Melissia]

Of course not, I'd never post in a thread about the color of Tyranid toenails. Unless it involved me pointing out that my favorite color of Tyranid toenails is "burnt brown". [/badumskhh] And now, exit stage left, before the tomatoes are thrown.

[Commissar Lewis]

I agree her ( though tbh it is the internet, so my intel on their gender is feeble at best) posts are funny. Though as a person who has some SoB models to back up my Redshirts, I agree the Inquisition needs some work.

Plastic Sisters would be awesome. Moreso because I could kitbash and convert them into female Guard models.

[Drew da Destroya]

I feel strangely compelled to say something along the lines of "The real trolls are those misinformed idiots who keep spouting nonsense about a combined =I= codex. What's going to happen is that the Grey Knights and Inquisitors will be squatted, while the Sisters will be given their own codex and furthermore will be made the featured army of 40k, supplanting even the Smurfs".

Hmm, not sure what came over me, since I heard from a friend, who heard from his cousin, who heard from a guy, who's related to a redshirt, who talked to a blackshirt, who was in the GW HQ bathroom in the stall next to Jervis, and overheard him on the phone with his mother, and he was saying that that they were working on a Combined =I= codex including the Grey Knights, Witch Hunters, Alien Hunters, and Inquisitors, but they were retconning the Sisters of Battle to become the Sisters of Silence, since the Horus Heresy novels were more popular than the SoB army anyway.

:D

[RocketRollRebel]

I feel strangely compelled to say something along the lines of "The real trolls are those misinformed idiots who keep spouting nonsense about a combined =I= codex. What's going to happen is that the Grey Knights and Inquisitors will be squatted, while the Sisters will be given their own codex and furthermore will be made the featured army of 40k, supplanting even the Smurfs".

Hmm, not sure what came over me, since I heard from a friend, who heard from his cousin, who heard from a guy, who's related to a redshirt, who talked to a blackshirt, who was in the GW HQ bathroom in the stall next to Jervis, and overheard him on the phone with his mother, and he was saying that that they were working on a Combined =I= codex including the Grey Knights, Witch Hunters, Alien Hunters, and Inquisitors, but they were retconning the Sisters of Battle to become the Sisters of Silence, since the Horus Heresy novels were more popular than the SoB army anyway.

:D

over heard it in the bathroom at GW eh? If that is true it's the best thing ever!

[DarkLink]

I gotta say, I find that I post about how I play Grey Knights a LOT, kinda like Melissa and her Sisters. Wait... kinda like just now... Ummm...


I think the best hope for the Inquisition is just to do some community approved houserules. It's fun to work on them, too.

[Melissia]

We talk about what we like. I like the Sisters of Battle. Maybe they just appeal to the inner feminist in me. Maybe it's just that they're ordinary human beings that fight against the worst horrors of the 40K galaxy through determination and a good application of technology and firepower. Maybe I'm a pyromaniac. Maybe I really like the idea of someone performing miracles through sheer willpower alone. Maybe I wish I was as awesome as they are. DUnno. Maybe all of these.

I love bolter shock. I love Acts of Faith. I love flamer spam. I love melta spam. I love the Exorcist tank and all of its organ player goodness. I love AP1 bolter rounds. I love the amount of finesse required to do it successfully compared to other armies. I love the Repentia models even if the unit is the worst unit in 40K tabletop. I love penitent engines even if they're a close second. I love the mental image of a small woman in power armor taking Abbadon in a one on one fight and winning. I love the fact that they're not supersoldiers. I love the fact that unlike Marines, they're still human beings. I love the fact that they are the elite of humankind, moreso than any other human organization. I love the fact that they decide a bayonet isn't enough so they attatch a huge spiked AXE to their bolters instead.

I love the Sisters of Battle. Unashamedly so. And I won't stop just because it annoys people.

[trjames]

We talk about what we like. I like the Sisters of Battle. Maybe they just appeal to the inner feminist in me. Maybe it's just that they're ordinary human beings that fight against the worst horrors of the 40K galaxy through determination and a good application of technology and firepower. Maybe I'm a pyromaniac. Maybe I really like the idea of someone performing miracles through sheer willpower alone. Maybe I wish I was as awesome as they are. DUnno. Maybe all of these.

I love bolter shock. I love Acts of Faith. I love flamer spam. I love melta spam. I love the Exorcist tank and all of its organ player goodness. I love AP1 bolter rounds. I love the amount of finesse required to do it successfully compared to other armies. I love the Repentia models even if the unit is the worst unit in 40K tabletop. I love penitent engines even if they're a close second. I love the mental image of a small woman in power armor taking Abbadon in a one on one fight and winning. I love the fact that they're not supersoldiers. I love the fact that unlike Marines, they're still human beings. I love the fact that they are the elite of humankind, moreso than any other human organization. I love the fact that they decide a bayonet isn't enough so they attatch a huge spiked AXE to their bolters instead.

I love the Sisters of Battle. Unashamedly so. And I won't stop just because it annoys people.

This is a brilliant post. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

[crocker]Leave Melissa alone! Leave her alone![/quote]

And Melissa...tsk...tsk...

Humanity sucked so bad they had to make better humans, i.e. the space marines, to be the elite of human kind. I'm sorry the idea of supermen who live only with other supermen and spend all day in training and 'prayer' ;-) doesn't suit you, but by the Emperor, we are here, we are fear (incarnate), get used to it!

Also, don't kid yourself, a single sister will never beat Abaddon, thats just ridiculous. I mean honestly, if I went around telling people that a single tactical marine could beat down Abaddon, they'd lock me away!

And also, is this forum moderated? Or is it a free for all?

[Jwolf]

The forum is moderated.

[Maria]

I do find the 'woe is me and woe to my SoB' attitude kinda funny in an emo kind of way :)

[crazyredpraetorian]

I do find the 'woe is me and woe to my SoB' attitude kinda funny in an emo kind of way :)

..........LOL! Wow, you're right! That is very true. I can't believe I missed that.:D

[Denzark]

I wish the Dark Eldar moaners could do it in a way that tickles our respective delectations as Melissa does about Squads Of Biatches.

[Xas]

Also, don't kid yourself, a single sister will never beat Abaddon, thats just ridiculous. I mean honestly, if I went around telling people that a single tactical marine could beat down Abaddon, they'd lock me away!



on a rules-perspective this is not SO unrealistic if you take a HQ modell.

she can have an ok number of attacks with a s5 pwoersword or a s6 powerfist as well as maintain a 2+ invul save for allmost the whole game (takes 1 faith point and a sucessfull lds test per turn afaik, could be player turn).

so its the sisters 4-5 A, hitting on 4+, wounding on 3+ (assume fist since abby shurely has the higher I anway), saving on 4+ AND abbies deamon weapon biting himself 1/6 chance. against 4wounds.

against abbies ~8A hitting on 3+, wounding rerollable on 2+, saving on 2+ against 2 wounds (he would autokill but she can ahve an item to make the first autokill only take 1 wound).

the sister needs 24A to kill abbadon (not counting his Dweapon) or 18A (if he looses 1 wound to the sword) and abbadon needs 19A to kill her.

so as this prolly takes 3 rounds of combat it basically is a question if abbadons sword bites him or not (which gives the sister time AND help in dmaging him).


final statement: acts of fate are fun and all sisters need are rhinos 15pts cheaper :P (and refractor fields for their chainsword lunatics)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I love Melissia rants, and usually the people that are brutally honest like that are the ones most worth knowing at least from my experience.

[Melissia]

Also keep in mind that Sisters are immune to force weapons (these weapons count as power weapons against the Sororitas).


Also, don't kid yourself, a single sister will never beat Abaddon, thats just ridiculous
Except it's happened before. My Canoness is awesome like that. She's also taken down a melee oriented Hive Tyrant before, too, oh, and she killed 'ol Ghazzy just for kicks.

Mind you, I was somewhat lucky with the dice... but it happened. Sisters HQ units should never, EVER be underestimated.


(and refractor fields for their chainsword lunatics)
Just call it a 5++ save. They wouldn't use such protective technology in the fluff, something about needing to be hurt and killed to redeem themselves.

My own remakes have them be given the 5++ invulnerable and FNP.

[Duke]

Ahem... well, I guess it is time to throw in my two cents.

First things first, Congrats to Melissa for Achieving a whole thread about her seemingly unccany ability to change any subject to SoB. Sometimes I think it is a personal goal of hers to find a way to fit it in every thread she posts in...

And just in case anybody was wondering I voted for DcM, what is better than a corgie? Well, a druken one who is also a master...

Question for Melissa:

Originally Space marines were little more than really tough humans, they evolved into super-genetic beasts over the years. Would you still support your SoB's if this same turn of events happened? I only ask because it seems a lot of what you like about them is that they are 'normal,'

Duke (FTW)

[Drew da Destroya]

We talk about what we like. I like the Sisters of Battle. Maybe they just appeal to the inner feminist in me. Maybe it's just that they're ordinary human beings that fight against the worst horrors of the 40K galaxy through determination and a good application of technology and firepower. Maybe I'm a pyromaniac. Maybe I really like the idea of someone performing miracles through sheer willpower alone. Maybe I wish I was as awesome as they are. DUnno. Maybe all of these.

We all know the real reason you love the Sisters is because you ARE one, sent back in time by a Warp Storm, and all of your promotion of the army is a thinly-veiled PR campaign to make sure the concept of the SoBs are thoroughly ingrained in our society. This way, once the Sisters are finally founded, there will already be a large and willing body of volunteers!

Admittedly, once we discover that Orks are real, I plan on going Digganob, so I can't really blame you.

[Aldramelech]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! I cant take anymore bloody SOB whining!

If it Carry's on I'm going to chain myself to her front door in nothing but my underpants, and stick two pencils up my nose! You have been warned! Beep, Beep, Beep, beep.

[Melissia]

If it Carry's on I'm going to chain myself to her front door in nothing but my underpants, and stick two pencils up my nose!
This can be solved with fire.


Originally Space marines were little more than really tough humans, they evolved into super-genetic beasts over the years. Would you still support your SoB's if this same turn of events happened? I only ask because it seems a lot of what you like about them is that they are 'normal,'

Duke (FTW)

I would still support them... but much less than I do now. I think the superhuman aspect is fine as a part of the genre, after all it's just part of what humans do and part of human culture (and let's face it, it'll happen in some form or other someday in the future, and we know it will), but to me it makes for boring characters. It's part of the reason Halo is so boring for me (aside from the game itself being mediocre, but that's another topic entirelly), for example, and a good deal of the reason why Red Faction 2 was kinda meh, compared to RE1 And RE:G.

In essence, Marines just drop in, kill everyone, go on to the next battle. I haven't read a single Marine fiction piece yet that can match the awesomeness of the Guard fiction (Especially the Ciaphas Cain series), and to me the Sisters are much closer to the Guard than the Marines-- they have power armor (Which in the current fluff is actually equal in protection provided to the armor worn by the Marines), yes, but they have to deal with the psychological effects of battle, of war, of chaos, of everything. The Marines... they don't. They don't know fear and so they can never conquer it, and so they can never truelly be great.

[BuFFo]

I vote DCM.

But...

Sisters of Battle rox.

[therealjohnny5]

i love this thread...melissa kudos for bringing it back to the fire...you're consistent if nothing else.:p

[L192837465]

I have but one reason why sisters of battle are terrifying:

They are still normal woman. Normal woman suffer something once a month that all men fear, even more than space marines.

There's a reason they all have loincloths over the crotch, and a reason why they all have flamers. I'll let you use your own imagination why the latter.

[sangrail777]

Hell yeah for Melissia!!! The constant SoB rants are funny.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

I do find the 'woe is me and woe to my SoB' attitude kinda funny in an emo kind of way :)

Oh, catfight!


And yes, from a fluff perspective (the only perspective ;) ) a Sororitas could never kill Abaddon.

[Melissia]

Oh, catfight!


And yes, from a fluff perspective (the only perspective ;) ) a Sororitas could never kill Abaddon.
Actually, from a fluff perspective a Sororitas would be the most likely ones to kill Abby. Canoness Praxedes, for example, single-handedly took down a Hive Tyrant in close combat. And then led a small group of Sisters in a hit and run campaign against a Tyranid invasion horde that delayed the Tyranids for something along the line of months as the planet's population was evacuated. Sisters are also very resistant to psychic powers, especially force weapons, due to their faith and the Emperor's protection.

What an Astartes will fail to do, a human with faith and willpower will succeed.

[Chumbalaya]

Make me a sandwich!

[Marshal2Crusaders]

Actually, from a fluff perspective a Sororitas would be the most likely ones to kill Abby. Canoness Praxedes, for example, single-handedly took down a Hive Tyrant in close combat. And then led a small group of Sisters in a hit and run campaign against a Tyranid invasion horde that delayed the Tyranids for something along the line of months as the planet's population was evacuated. Sisters are also very resistant to psychic powers, especially force weapons, due to their faith and the Emperor's protection.

What an Astartes will fail to do, a human with faith and willpower will succeed.

Well then, an Astartes with Faith and Willpower must be a thousand times better than a mere mortal with faith and willpower. Because, well he is an Astartes, and as such above mortals. Its like a wildcat, sure they could kill a person, but a person can kill a bear with less trouble than the wildcat could kill a person.

[Aldramelech]

Yeah! And this Beer is not cold enough wench! (that'll be the effect of all that bloody fire!)

[Melissia]

Well then, an Astartes with Faith and Willpower must be a thousand times better than a mere mortal with faith and willpower.My answer to this is quite simple: An Astartes does not know fear, therefor he cannot conquer fear. His willpower is therefor weaker than the common man's, whom knows fear and has conquered it. Oftentimes the very aspect of the Astartes that makes them strong also makes them weak, like a muscle that has been overtrained and suffers for it.

[Maria]

Normal woman suffer something once a month

.

Why is it suffering? The only chance we get to commit murder and get away with it .. i call it a blessing. ;)

[ChrisW]

Sisters are a tough army. i've been foiled by the powers of faith more often than not.

the mini's make great conversions to Slaanesh though. heck all the -][- forces make great conversions to the dark powers. particularly i like the walking throne i saw at the flgs.......

[Duke]

My answer to this is quite simple: An Astartes does not know fear, therefor he cannot conquer fear. His willpower is therefor weaker than the common man's, whom knows fear and has conquered it. Oftentimes the very aspect of the Astartes that makes them strong also makes them weak, like a muscle that has been overtrained and suffers for it.

Im going to have to argue with this one... I don't think that your logic here is sound.

I could easily convey my thoughts by using theology, but to keep myself from getting banned I won't even touch actual religion. . . As such I am going on the opposite side of the spectrum with drug abuse, if this is a sensitive topic for you then feel free to skip the following paragraph.

Based on your logic I could translate your argument to say that a person who was a drug addict and overcame it is stronger than a person who never was addidicted, becuase he/she didn't have to fight it. I can say that I have known drug/ alcohol addicts and they don't 'get over it,' they learn to live with it... That's why they call themselves addicts after being clean for several years. It is something that haunts them constantly, thus serving as a potential weak link in the chain. Whereas a person who never experienced it has a stronger chain because that specific link isn't weaker.

Please feel free to openly dispute my argument, should you feel so inclined... Or PM me.

Cheers,
Duke (Forever)

[Gotthammer]

Well then, an Astartes with Faith and Willpower must be a thousand times better than a mere mortal with faith and willpower. Because, well he is an Astartes, and as such above mortals. Its like a wildcat, sure they could kill a person, but a person can kill a bear with less trouble than the wildcat could kill a person.

I believe the Astartes you refer to are called Grey Knights.

[sangrail777]

Hey Duke fluff wise our Blood Angels believe they are stronger for risisting the Red Thirst and Black Rage every day. Where as some say they are weak for even haveing this "taint"
Wouldn't this kinda be along the same lines.

[Nabterayl]

Im going to have to argue with this one... I don't think that your logic here is sound.

I could easily convey my thoughts by using theology, but to keep myself from getting banned I won't even touch actual religion. . . As such I am going on the opposite side of the spectrum with drug abuse, if this is a sensitive topic for you then feel free to skip the following paragraph.

Based on your logic I could translate your argument to say that a person who was a drug addict and overcame it is stronger than a person who never was addidicted, becuase he/she didn't have to fight it. I can say that I have known drug/ alcohol addicts and they don't 'get over it,' they learn to live with it... That's why they call themselves addicts after being clean for several years. It is something that haunts them constantly, thus serving as a potential weak link in the chain. Whereas a person who never experienced it has a stronger chain because that specific link isn't weaker.

Please feel free to openly dispute my argument, should you feel so inclined... Or PM me.

Cheers,
Duke (Forever)

I hear what you're saying, and in this particular case I might agree with you, but Mel's point touches on something that's always bugged me about marines, which is that they're ... oversold? There is something distinctly more heroic to me about the Imperial Guard and the Sororitas.

Marines go where they want, to fight who they want, when they want, on the terms they want. When they do so, they have the advantage of the best of everything the Imperium can provide - the best equipment, the best bioengineering, the best psycho-indoctrination.

They can do plenty of things that ordinary forces can't do, even ordinary spec ops like storm troopers, but at the end of the day, they're still just glorified spec ops. There's plenty of things that ordinary forces do that marines either can't or won't. Try asking a space marine chapter to do what the Death Korps did on Vraks and they'll laugh in your face. Is Armageddon being overrun? Well, too bad - the Blood Angels lost a hero, so they're going home for the funeral. The Inquisition needs help? Well, they'll think about it. If the going gets too rough, they'll just leave, or never arrive at all. When they do arrive, they decide what their objectives are, and you just have to hope that their objectives are useful to you. If their objectives screw over your war effort, well, too bad. At the end of the day, the most important thing to a space marine is ... space marines. They may be badasses, but they're also insufferable gits.

That's much less true for the Sororitas. The Orders Militant are less like independent nations and more like soldiers. They don't have the luxury of saying, "Sorry, too many of us will die if we do that vitally important thing you've just asked us to do." The just front up and do it. Faced with the choice between the death of a battle-brother and the death of a pious, unquestionably loyal civilian, a space marine will let the civilian die. I'm not so sure that a sister would do the same.

[Aldramelech]

Its all a bit "Macho women with guns" for my taste. You just know that they were thought up by some twisted little perve with a leather fetish.

I can picture the scene..........

"We need to make a new SOB Codex"
"Bring out the Gimp!"
"Gimps sleeping"
"Well wake him up!"

He cant write the next one yet, someone got medieval on his ***.

[Commissar Lewis]

Personally I love the "badass chicks with guns" aspect of the SoB. Hell, they were my first army. I ran SoB with soem inducted Guard, until I seg-wayed into Guard entirely.

If the SoB weren't so expensive, I'd still be running em.

And I do like the human armies more than the superhuman ones. My friend regularly kicks my *** with his chaos marines, but in my mind I'm more heroic - I'm fighting superhumans with friggin lasguns and ******* flak armor.

So keep it up, Mel. If you ever want to start a campaign to get GW to update the Sisters, you have my axe.

[Lerra]

My #1 rant about the 40k world is that there are so few female models, and that's my only real complaint with the Sisters. It's like GW put all of the females into one army so that they didn't have to bother putting females anywhere else.

I'm always surprised how much it bothers people to see females in terminator armor. "But . . . but . . . women can't fight like that. It's just wrong." You are playing a game with aliens and daemons and people who shoot psychic power out of their fingertips, and you can't accept that a superhuman woman with powered armor and 40th century weaponry can fight? Or if she does, she is only a sex object and not just a badass character? What does that say about you?

That's what is so awesome about sisters. They aren't superhuman and they don't rely as heavily on technology as the space marines do, and they are still badass. And they don't have to wear chainmail bikinis to do it.

I'm currently building a female terminator HQ to count as Logan Grimnar. I'll enjoy the fits of apoplexy from some of the guys.

[Aldramelech]

Got no problems with female models, Id love some for my guard, just dont enjoy the fetish aspect of SOB.

[Duke]

Hey Duke fluff wise our Blood Angels believe they are stronger for risisting the Red Thirst and Black Rage every day. Where as some say they are weak for even haveing this "taint"
Wouldn't this kinda be along the same lines.

Yes, the BA do say that they are stronger for it... But when you look at it being a vampire is always awsome, Period. lol.




...Marines go where they want, to fight who they want, when they want, on the terms they want. When they do so, they have the advantage of the best of everything the Imperium can provide - the best equipment, the best bioengineering, the best psycho-indoctrination.

... Is Armageddon being overrun? Well, too bad - the Blood Angels lost a hero, so they're going home for the funeral. The Inquisition needs help? Well, they'll think about it... When they do arrive, they decide what their objectives are, and you just have to hope that their objectives are useful to you. If their objectives screw over your war effort, well, too bad. At the end of the day, the most important thing to a space marine is ... space marines. They may be badasses, but they're also insufferable gits.

... Faced with the choice between the death of a battle-brother and the death of a pious, unquestionably loyal civilian, a space marine will let the civilian die...


Madness? MADNESS? INSUFFERABLE MADNESS?!! THIS IS SPARTA! ;)

Duke

[Aegis]

Frankly, it is wonderful to see so much attention on the Sisters. Maybe GW will finally take notice, and get their act in gear to make a new book for us, with cheaper rhino's.

On the other hand, it is nice that they are still, essentially, a niche army (not as much as the 100 DE players out there are a niche unto themselves, but a niche...). It means when I field my sisters at local tournaments, most players look at me like I am the special kid with a helmet... And then I proceed to incinerate/melta/condemn them to the bottom of the standings.

Few things are sweeter than an opponents first encounter with faith points, especially when that faith makes those wonderful 3+ armour saves into 3++ saves.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Of course not, I'd never post in a thread about the color of Tyranid toenails. Unless it involved me pointing out that my favorite color of Tyranid toenails is "burnt brown". [/badumskhh]

-we shall see...we shall see...



PS. When I came up with this thread idea last night, I was not sure anybody would respond. I got home from work, saw all the posts and thought..."Oh-Oh, I'm in trouble!" -Who'da thunk Melissa of Battle would be such a hot topic?

[TalonZahn]

BLOCK OF TEXT, then...

Faced with the choice between the death of a battle-brother and the death of a pious, unquestionably loyal civilian, a space marine will let the civilian die. I'm not so sure that a sister would do the same.

So you think a Guardsman or SoB would let a fellow squad mate or platoon mate die before saving a pious civi? You could not be more wrong on this, I assure you. You yourself wouldn't do this. Let's say you've been in battle for... 6 months with 9 friends, relatively short time. Lived through hours of combat, saved each other, watched over each other. Oh yea, you've trained for who knows how long with these men, which very likely you grew up with at the least on the same planet, if not from childhood together.

Now, I capture you, your squad mate, and random civi #43573. Then I stick a frag grenade in their mouths and tell you to pick 1 or all of you die.

/wave bye to civi

Marines are a scalpel.

Everyone else is meat for the grinder.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

My #1 rant about the 40k world is that there are so few female models, and that's my only real complaint with the Sisters. It's like GW put all of the females into one army so that they didn't have to bother putting females anywhere else.

I'm always surprised how much it bothers people to see females in terminator armor. "But . . . but . . . women can't fight like that. It's just wrong." You are playing a game with aliens and daemons and people who shoot psychic power out of their fingertips, and you can't accept that a superhuman woman with powered armor and 40th century weaponry can fight? Or if she does, she is only a sex object and not just a badass character? What does that say about you?

That's what is so awesome about sisters. They aren't superhuman and they don't rely as heavily on technology as the space marines do, and they are still badass. And they don't have to wear chainmail bikinis to do it.

I'm currently building a female terminator HQ to count as Logan Grimnar. I'll enjoy the fits of apoplexy from some of the guys.


For the Blood Angels thing, being a Blood Angel comes with the rage, so I ask you who is stronger a man who can climb a rope, or a man born with one arm who can climb the same rope.

It says we can read. There are no female space marine. SITFU and drive on. Hell even Mel has my back on this one, she'd hate to see any kind of marine take more away from the SoB.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

Has she ever miked it up with the big EE19? That might be interesting to say the least... We have met in other threads. Actually I find Melissia to be exactly what I am -- an intelleigent poster with differing opinions from my own, which we both vocalize in our own ways. I have nothing but respect for those who challenge my posts, so long as they are logical and not just sniping.

I would like to see moderators lock threads such as this one...this is rather unrelated to the game, and could have probably been a lot worse if Melissia herself had not been so sporting about it.

[Nabterayl]

So you think a Guardsman or SoB would let a fellow squad mate or platoon mate die before saving a pious civi? You could not be more wrong on this, I assure you. You yourself wouldn't do this. Let's say you've been in battle for... 6 months with 9 friends, relatively short time. Lived through hours of combat, saved each other, watched over each other. Oh yea, you've trained for who knows how long with these men, which very likely you grew up with at the least on the same planet, if not from childhood together.

Now, I capture you, your squad mate, and random civi #43573. Then I stick a frag grenade in their mouths and tell you to pick 1 or all of you die.

/wave bye to civi

Marines are a scalpel.

Everyone else is meat for the grinder.

Oh, to be sure. But now say that you've got two marines cornered with two civilians. There's an escape route for only two people; the others will die. How many marines will sacrifice themselves so that two random civi's can live? How many marines would sacrifice themselves so that even two inquisitors, or two high Ministorum officials, or two Imperial Guard war heroes might live? I submit the answer is virtually none. The marines might stay and fight for any number of reasons, just like they take on dangerous missions for any number of reasons, but they'll never sacrifice themselves, because in a marine's eyes, a space marine is worth more than any other subject of the Imperium. Indeed, more than many subjects of the Imperium. How many space marines would willingly sacrifice their entire chapter if it meant that a thousand souls would live pure? Ten thousand? How many space marines would sacrifice their chapter if it meant that even ten billion souls were saved? But how many sisters would sacrifice their entire Order if by her deaths each woman could save a million souls? Not all of them, but a fair number, I bet. Same with the Guard.

I don't mean to say that guardsmen and Sororitas are motivated to fight to defend mankind. I'm sure that when the bolts start flying, virtually none of them stick it out "to defend mankind" and virtually all of them stick around for the normal reasons human beings stick around. But when push comes to shove I'll bet you could find at least a minority of guardsmen and sisters who would sacrifice themselves for another, or others, under the right circumstances. Marines don't do that. A marine may die protecting you, but he'll never die to protect you. He thinks he's more important than that.

There's a remote possibility that he's right. But it's hardly admirable even if he is.

[Logan]

Got no problems with female models, Id love some for my guard, just dont enjoy the fetish aspect of SOB.

You think SOB have a fetish aspect?
Dont ever go to the Torture Garden dude.
If you think that is fetish the real thing would kill you.

[TalonZahn]

But when push comes to shove I'll bet you could find at least a minority of guardsmen and sisters who would sacrifice themselves for another, or others, under the right circumstances. Marines don't do that. A marine may die protecting you, but he'll never die to protect you. He thinks he's more important than that.

Again, this points back to the whole "Band of Brothers" ideal. Those Guardsmen are often defending their own planet or one in their own system. They are also trained like Russian WW2 soldiers. Attack and risk death, or retreat and face certain death. I absolutely believe that a Blood Angel would die to protect citizens in the Baal system. The UM's have done it for theirs. In defense of Random Rock #967236, not so much. The marine conditioning makes them that way. They are there to do a job and leave. Chances are the civi is tainted anyway. The SM isn't there to find out. If the space marines really didn't care, it would be purged from orbit every time. It also doesn't help that most worlds are back water hick planets that nearly worship the super-human marines.

Since the SoB are a Religious Cult, well, they sort of have to care about the pious vs. non-pious/devout/etc.

Also, a marine is worth any number of civilians lives in just about all eyes in this 40K setting. Isn't in the movie Swordfish where he asks him something along the lines of... If you had to kill 1 child to resolve X problem, could you do it? How about 10, 100, 1000? See where I'm going? That's what this comes down to. If a Chaos Titan is wearing an orphanage on each foot as a shoe, what would you do to resolve removing the titan?

Me, I would nuke it from space.:p

[Melissia]

That's much less true for the Sororitas. The Orders Militant are less like independent nations and more like soldiers. They don't have the luxury of saying, "Sorry, too many of us will die if we do that vitally important thing you've just asked us to do." The just front up and do it. Faced with the choice between the death of a battle-brother and the death of a pious, unquestionably loyal civilian, a space marine will let the civilian die. I'm not so sure that a sister would do the same.

This is correct. The Sisters of Battle embrace Martyrdom as a way of life. This is seen to the utmost extreme in the Sisters Repentia, but is able to be seen everywhere else in the organization as well. Most Schola Progenium graduates whom attempt to get into the Sisterhood never make it partially because of this-- most people just aren't cut out for a life dedicated entirely to self-sacrifice in the Emperor's name. And by entirely, I mean mornings, days, nights, and then back to mornings again, every second is dedicated to the Emperor and His Imperium.

Keep in mind that these women are not brainwashed or mind-wiped or hypnotized. They do this through perseverance and sheer force of will. They conquer their fears and are stronger for it. Marines are an excellent fighting force, of that there is never any doubt... but that's all they are.

[Lerra]

There are no female space marine. SITFU and drive on.

So in the history of the universe, with all of the gene-seed mutations and impurities, there could never be a space marine who was missing a Y chromosome (aka was female).

I know space marines like their men, but to say that it's physically impossible to have female space marines is taking it a bit far.

[Melissia]

It's not explicitly stated that there are no female Space Marines. There are things stated about it, like that the gene-seed is incompatible, but gene-seed can and has been altered over time.

Exit, stage left. [/devil's advocate]

[Duke]

Except for the fact that GW has specifically said there has never been nor ever will be female Astartes. Sisters are the closest to chick-marines.

[Melissia]

And that is something Sisters are not, and have never been. Even in RT days, tehy weren't female Marines.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

So in the history of the universe, with all of the gene-seed mutations and impurities, there could never be a space marine who was missing a Y chromosome (aka was female).

I know space marines like their men, but to say that it's physically impossible to have female space marines is taking it a bit far.

Shall I find the exact reference for you?


It's not explicitly stated that there are no female Space Marines. There are things stated about it, like that the gene-seed is incompatible, but gene-seed can and has been altered over time.

Exit, stage left. [/devil's advocate]

Now, now, it is indeed stated explicitly. Sure geneseed can be altered but the product fo the alteration is no longer a Space Marine ;)


Except for the fact that GW has specifically said there has never been nor ever will be female Astartes. Sisters are the closest to chick-marines.

Si, but sisters are nothing like Marines, except for their armor and bolters (in universe, I couldn't give a rat's left *** about game mechanics)


And that is something Sisters are not, and have never been. Even in RT days, tehy weren't female Marines.

Sisters were around in RT day?

[Melissia]

So the Lamenters Chapter isn't Space Marines? They were formed from an attempt to "cure" Blood Angels gene-seed.

The Sisters of Battle were indeed around during the Rogue Trader era. They were actually quite powerful back then; they policed the Space Marine chapters and punished the ones that went wrong.

[Commissar Lewis]

Damn, looks some arguement be brewing, and I ain't sober enough for this.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

So the Lamenters Chapter isn't Space Marines? They were formed from an attempt to "cure" Blood Angels gene-seed.

Well then, my statement stands. The Emperor made Space Marines using a specific process, thus defining Space Marines. Altered Geneseed is not what the Emperor did, therefor they are not Space Marines. I believe you will be the first to agree that wearing power armor and carrying a bolter doesn't make you a space marine. Another example would be Luthor, who was altered but not a Space Marine. Or any of Fabius Bile's creations, they arn't Space Marines. And to be honest, there wont be many Lamenters for much longer...


The Sisters of Battle were indeed around during the Rogue Trader era. They were actually quite powerful back then; they policed the Space Marine chapters and punished the ones that went wrong.

Oh well thank God we got rid of that garbage. I mean who needs SoB to police Space Marines, amirite???? *High fives other Space Marine Players* ;)

[Aldramelech]

We have met in other threads. Actually I find Melissia to be exactly what I am -- an intelleigent poster with differing opinions from my own, which we both vocalize in our own ways. I have nothing but respect for those who challenge my posts, so long as they are logical and not just sniping.

I would like to see moderators lock threads such as this one...this is rather unrelated to the game, and could have probably been a lot worse if Melissia herself had not been so sporting about it.

Oh your no fun at all!

Seriously, I'm quite sure that the mods are watching closely and that any inappropriate behavior would be squashed.

Threads such as this provide light relief, nothing wrong with that. And now it has actually developed into a serious discussion on SOB, which is better then having the crazy lady hijack every other thread on the forum!:D

You should get more fun out of life.........;)

[Aldramelech]

You think SOB have a fetish aspect?
Dont ever go to the Torture Garden dude.
If you think that is fetish the real thing would kill you.

My friend, I'm a white 38 year old married man with children from England. Shoes with heels bigger then 3 inch's are "fetish" where I come from! :eek:

As a married Englishman sex is something that occurs on special occasions, by appointment, with the lights off. (now if I could only stop my being spanked by ho's addiction everything would be perfect);)

Seriously, (and you have to be English to fully get this) those figures were so obviously designed by some little perv with a Glennis Barber fixation its untrue...... which is just creepy.

In my opinion, I think GW is embarrassed by the whole thing, and they would quite like it to die quietly.
In that respect I do feel sorry for all SOB fans, because I don't believe you will ever get those new models or even a Codex. I really think you have become the new 'S' word.

[Logan]

[QUOTE=Aldramelech;24229]My friend, I'm a white 38 year old married man with children from England. Shoes with heels bigger then 3 inch's are "fetish" where I come from! :eek:

As a married Englishman sex is something that occurs on special occasions, by appointment, with the lights off. (now if I could only stop my being spanked by ho's addiction everything would be perfect);)

Seriously, (and you have to be English to fully get this) those figures were so obviously designed by some little perv with a Glennis Barber fixation its untrue...... which is just creepy.
QUOTE]

snap - I'm a 37 yr old white Yorkshireman (living in exile in Kent) with kids, to me its not fetish if theres no ferrets or a least a whippet involved. It gets super kinky if I take my flat cap off.

Still dont see macho nuns with guns as fetish though. I suppose it comes down to what floats your boat;)

[eldargal]

My (unofficial, obviously) female SM chapter came about through a mutation in the geneseed which prevented succesful grafting into male subjects but allowed grafting onto female subjects. It annoyed the hell out of the Fluffguard in my group but they had to admit it was feasible. Sure it isn't officlal but GW have never explicitly stated there can be no female SMs, even if they will never support any.

I wrote out a long fluff based post on why the idea that altered geneseed means they arent real SMs is the height of silliness, but its getting too far off the topic.

I think labelling Melissia's complaints about SoB rants does them a disservice, they are well written, intelligent and courteous. No trolling. I haven't fielded an SoB army, if only because the support GW has given them as been lacklustre, and I already have a runt DE army. I have played SoB armies however and I have never found them to be a walkover.


Well then, my statement stands. The Emperor made Space Marines using a specific process, thus defining Space Marines. Altered Geneseed is not what the Emperor did, therefor they are not Space Marines. I believe you will be the first to agree that wearing power armor and carrying a bolter doesn't make you a space marine. Another example would be Luthor, who was altered but not a Space Marine. Or any of Fabius Bile's creations, they arn't Space Marines. And to be honest, there wont be many Lamenters for much longer...



Oh well thank God we got rid of that garbage. I mean who needs SoB to police Space Marines, amirite???? *High fives other Space Marine Players* ;)

[Aldramelech]

On a completely serious note I have to disagree.

Whereas some posts have been as you have described, many have been no more then the ravings of a petulant child who is not getting her own way. "Ill scream and scream and scream until I'm sick!" springs to mind. Some needed a new smiley on the end.... A metaphorical stamping foot.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

These considerations mean that only a small proportion of people can become Space Marines. They must be male because zygotes are keyed to mle hormones and tissue types, hence the need for tissue compatibility tests and psychological screening.

Index Astartes, pg. 7 . Sorry Ladies and Gentlemen, but this means there can be no female Space Marines. Women with genetic manipulation to gain Astartes like abilities sure, why not? But a loyalist Chapter made of or including females? NO. Female Ultramarines, Templars, and so on are NOT POSSIBLE, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER in 40K.

I'll throw in a definition of the word must (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/must), for kicks. Notice it say compelled to, and all other manner of words that are synonymous with 'no other option'.

[eldargal]

I may be wrong but to my knowledge (and I do not claim to be an expert so do correct me if you are) there is no exclusively male hormone or tissue type. So, I'm going to proceed with my Space Kittens chapter and assume that quote from Index Astartes is just typical Imperial misunderstanding of science (ie the writer not knowing what he was talking about).

Edit: The fluff explicity states that the humans of the 40k universe are homo sapiens so you can't go arging that 40k humans are different on this level. If they were, they wouldn't be homo sapiens.


Index Astartes, pg. 7 . Sorry Ladies and Gentlemen, but this means there can be no female Space Marines. Women with genetic manipulation to gain Astartes like abilities sure, why not? But a loyalist Chapter made of or including females? NO. Female Ultramarines, Templars, and so on are NOT POSSIBLE, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER in 40K.

I'll throw in a definition of the word must (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/must), for kicks. Notice it say compelled to, and all other manner of words that are synonymous with 'no other option'.

[Melissia]

Females need testosterone, and in fact are more sensitive to testosterone than men. Males need estrogen, and in fact young males need it far more than young females. Actually, infant females have a chemical that blocks the effect of estrogen, whereas infant males don't-- and it is vital that infant males have estrogen in their body. The same could be said for other "male hormones" or "female hormones".

[Logan]

Just finished a full spectrum analysis of a marine and a sister of battle and it seems they are different on a molecular level,
the marine is plastic
while the sister is a white metallic substance
As near as I could get to a DNA test sorry, maybe we could try taking them on Jeremy Kyle! (you probably need to be A Brit to get that)

[Aldramelech]

Just finished a full spectrum analysis of a marine and a sister of battle and it seems they are different on a molecular level,
the marine is plastic
while the sister is a white metallic substance
As near as I could get to a DNA test sorry, maybe we could try taking them on Jeremy Kyle! (you probably need to be A Brit to get that)

LMAO. I cant quite believe that their having a discussion on the genetic makeup of toy soldiers:p

[eldargal]

Why? Look in the fluff section, there is a twenty page thread about the made up history for the toy soldiers.



LMAO. I cant quite believe that their having a discussion on the genetic makeup of toy soldiers:p

[Aldramelech]

And I dont get it.........

If you want to have a female chapter, Why not? Whats to discuss? Why do you have to justify yourself?

Fantasy Gamming, is the key word here fantasy? I would say so.

[Lord Azaghul]

I love the Sisters of Battle. Unashamedly so. And I won't stop just because it annoys people.

loving the sisters in fine, trying to turn every thread you touch into a "its not fair for sisters" threat does tend to get old:p

That being said, I whine and complain about fantasy every time it comes up because I thoroughly believe gw broke the game with daemons, vampires, and DE -thus it being little or no fun for me using the armies I like to play! (see what I just did there? - awesome wasn't it!)

[TalonZahn]

Just finished a full spectrum analysis of a marine and a sister of battle and it seems they are different on a molecular level,
the marine is plastic
while the sister is a white metallic substance

Best post in the thread.

I'm still laughing.

[jeffersonian000]

Just to throw in the RT card, but there use to be female Space Marines as well as female Imperial Guard back in 1st edition. In point of fact, there were two different models for female Space Marines which both came in the same blister pack under the product name "Female Space Marines". They were lead miniatures, and the line was dropped about the same time lead was replaced by non-lead pewter (aka white metal). The last time those two female Space Marine models where issued, they were available in white metal in the Warhammer 40k Adventurers product line under the names 'Babs' (power hammer) and 'Gabs' (sword and bolter). I still have a 'Gabs' figure in my collection, which will some day see the battlefield again as the Lady Inquisitor Gabriella Barbosa. Until that day, she sits patiently waiting for me to decide on how I will re-paint her (she has a Librarians sigil on one of her pauldrons; I’m leaning toward Ultramarine blue just piss people off or Exorcist red to fit in with Inquisition/fluff).

As to Sisters of Battle in 1st edition, they did not exist as models but were seen in illustrations as tough nuns in the same power armour as Marines, only with wimples instead of helmets. One could say that Babs and Gabs were the first Sisters of Battle to be cast as models. I have distant memories of someone actually fielding an entire 1st Ed Marine army based on just those two minis. Alas, I was but a teen then, and now am nearing my 40’s.

SJ

[Lerra]

Logan, that was epic :)

At the end of the day, this is just a game. I love seeing all the weird armies that people come up with - steampunk necrons, all-human Tau forces, zombie guard - it's just fun. If the fluff bothers you, just pretend that you are playing against Daemons who just happen to look like female space marines.

[Elliott]

My respect for Melissia: through the roof.

Well done! Someone makes a thread about your posting habits, and you're an incredible sport about the whole thing. Furthermore, I really do dig your take on the Sisters of Battle - I think you voice their mentality/ideology to a tee. I'd drop my Tau cadre in a moment to play Sisters of Battle, if only they were made in plastic.

[Gotthammer]

Index Astartes, pg. 7 . Sorry Ladies and Gentlemen, but this means there can be no female Space Marines. Women with genetic manipulation to gain Astartes like abilities sure, why not? But a loyalist Chapter made of or including females? NO. Female Ultramarines, Templars, and so on are NOT POSSIBLE, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER in 40K.

I'll throw in a definition of the word must (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/must), for kicks. Notice it say compelled to, and all other manner of words that are synonymous with 'no other option'.

The article that comes from also mentions the numerous Primarchs each Chapter has - as in the greatly revered heroes of said chapter.It fails to mention the twenty primarchs as we know them today, and that line has been ommited from the current codex.

Refering to one line originating from RT is hardly a good idea in saying an absolute, especially when the writers of that line stick a disclaimer with it to re-write anything you want anyway.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

I may be wrong but to my knowledge (and I do not claim to be an expert so do correct me if you are) there is no exclusively male hormone or tissue type. So, I'm going to proceed with my Space Kittens chapter and assume that quote from Index Astartes is just typical Imperial misunderstanding of science (ie the writer not knowing what he was talking about).

Edit: The fluff explicity states that the humans of the 40k universe are homo sapiens so you can't go arging that 40k humans are different on this level. If they were, they wouldn't be homo sapiens.

You are not wrong, but it still says MUST be male, so they can't be female. Again, to be a Space Marine you have to follow certain procedures. To be a badass female warrior in power armor with a boltgun, you need the players imagination, just dont try to tell me it was a chapter commissioned by the HLoT. Thats where it gets ridiculous.


Females need testosterone, and in fact are more sensitive to testosterone than men. Males need estrogen, and in fact young males need it far more than young females. Actually, infant females have a chemical that blocks the effect of estrogen, whereas infant males don't-- and it is vital that infant males have estrogen in their body. The same could be said for other "male hormones" or "female hormones".

So are you backing me up? LOL


And I dont get it.........

If you want to have a female chapter, Why not? Whats to discuss? Why do you have to justify yourself?

Fantasy Gamming, is the key word here fantasy? I would say so.

Because there are rules and accepted truths to this game, if you want to go against the grain, whatever but have some good justification and don't shoehorn it in.


Just to throw in the RT card, but there use to be female Space Marines as well as female Imperial Guard back in 1st edition. In point of fact, there were two different models for female Space Marines which both came in the same blister pack under the product name "Female Space Marines". They were lead miniatures, and the line was dropped about the same time lead was replaced by non-lead pewter (aka white metal). The last time those two female Space Marine models where issued, they were available in white metal in the Warhammer 40k Adventurers product line under the names 'Babs' (power hammer) and 'Gabs' (sword and bolter). I still have a 'Gabs' figure in my collection, which will some day see the battlefield again as the Lady Inquisitor Gabriella Barbosa. Until that day, she sits patiently waiting for me to decide on how I will re-paint her (she has a Librarians sigil on one of her pauldrons; I’m leaning toward Ultramarine blue just piss people off or Exorcist red to fit in with Inquisition/fluff).

As to Sisters of Battle in 1st edition, they did not exist as models but were seen in illustrations as tough nuns in the same power armour as Marines, only with wimples instead of helmets. One could say that Babs and Gabs were the first Sisters of Battle to be cast as models. I have distant memories of someone actually fielding an entire 1st Ed Marine army based on just those two minis. Alas, I was but a teen then, and now am nearing my 40’s.

SJ

The Proper title was females IN POWER ARMOR or something along those lines, not female Space Marines.


Logan, that was epic :)

At the end of the day, this is just a game. I love seeing all the weird armies that people come up with - steampunk necrons, all-human Tau forces, zombie guard - it's just fun. If the fluff bothers you, just pretend that you are playing against Daemons who just happen to look like female space marines.

An army on the tabletop is very different from the one you have online. Online it needs to be fluff oriented unless your in one of those super cool forums where they talk about WAAC gaming and the most powerful lists. WHile it may look amazing IRL, it doesn't sound amazing when you try to tell me why the Mechanicus invented steam technology just for your skitarii regiment.


The article that comes from also mentions the numerous Primarchs each Chapter has - as in the greatly revered heroes of said chapter.It fails to mention the twenty primarchs as we know them today, and that line has been ommited from the current codex.

Refering to one line originating from RT is hardly a good idea in saying an absolute, especially when the writers of that line stick a disclaimer with it to re-write anything you want anyway.

No, No...

You are reaching and stretching to justify, which means you are wrong. Just because it was omitted doesn't mean it doesn't still stand, plenty of things have been omitted, like is Lion El'Johnson not at the heart of the Rock anymore? Or Rogal Dorn's remains on board the Phalanx(or in a Chapel, can't remember)? Just because these things arn't restated every edition doesn't make them untrue. For Crying out loud the best fluff about the sisters of battle is second edition, does that mean C:WH erased it? No.

The writers say do what you want to sell you models for Christ's sake, don't be naive. It is an absolute, so don't try and tell me otherwise because your wrong. But this is about Melissa, so if you want to continue the Old vs New Fluff/Universe with a game vs game with a universe/I do what I want argument, start a new thread and we could pound our heads into a wall over there.

[Aldramelech]

Which rule would that be? Point it out. Where in the entire rulebook does it say that?

Accepted truths? In a fantasy made up universe?

[Marshal2Crusaders]

Which rule would that be? Point it out. Where in the entire rulebook does it say that?

Accepted truths? In a fantasy made up universe?



If you play this game and participate in it's online community you play by the same rules as the rest, that's why it's called a community. Patronizing people for discussing in universe issues is not participating on the community. So again, if you don't want to participate, feel free to get out.

[Aldramelech]

And again I say, Show me these rules. Point them out and I'll happily knuckle down.

I play this Game and have for 20+ years, And so far I am unaware of anything that has happened in the last 20+ years that makes you the boss of me my friend.......................

This is an open forum and I will dip in and out as the fancy takes me. I don't require your permission or acceptance to be here and I will leave when I'm god damn good and ready!

[Marshal2Crusaders]

And again I say, Show me these rules. Point them out and I'll happily knuckle down.

I play this Game and have for 20+ years, And so far I am unaware of anything that has happened in the last 20+ years that makes you the boss of me my friend.......................

This is an open forum and I will dip in and out as the fancy takes me. I don't require your permission or acceptance to be here and I will leave when I'm god damn good and ready!

Oh, your right. You certainly can do as you please, it is the Internet. But we were discussing a fluff issue you deemed irrelevant, and I certainly wouldnt want to inconvenience you with things like a book saying there can be no female space marines, chaos grey knights, or frateris Templar. These are examples of course, of things that can't happen in 40k, due to specific edicts or statements in the fluff.

[Aldramelech]

And I don't think its right to stifle someones creativity because someone somewhere made a decision years ago about a made up universe, this is only their interpretation and does not make the like's of Eldergirl's any less valid.

As long as the Game rules are followed what possible difference does it make?

Your so called facts have no basis in fact whatsoever. How silly would you look if someone in GW decided next year that they wanted to 'engage' more female consumers and launched a female Space Marine Chapter? Impossible? Stupid even?
They can make the 'rules' your so fond of as they go along, why shouldn't we?

Free your mind and your *** will follow.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

And I don't think its right to stifle someones creativity because someone somewhere made a decision years ago about a made up universe, this is only their interpretation and does not make the like's of Eldergirl's any less valid.

As long as the Game rules are followed what possible difference does it make?

Your so called facts have no basis in fact whatsoever. How silly would you look if someone in GW decided next year that they wanted to 'engage' more female consumers and launched a female Space Marine Chapter? Impossible? Stupid even?
They can make the 'rules' your so fond of as they go along, why shouldn't we?

Free your mind and your *** will follow.

Brother, you arn't tracking me, I would embrace the new femmarines with gusto, because GW made it possible. What they say, I go by. So if they say the missing to primarchs were matriarchs I'd immediatly start quoting that like I quote the current stuff. Right now, impossible.

[Melissia]

So are you backing me up? LOL

No. I back noone's opinion up except for my own. I am merely stating the facts.

[RealGenius]

I think everyone's position is clear at this point.