so at the risk of asking a stupid question

[thelion]

so at the risk of asking a stupid question i was wondering if someone could explain to me how the new alleys rule works in 6th ed? the reason i ask is i have been told that i do not suport my death wing army well so while i have been looking through my own codex for an answer to this question i am at this point wondering if it would be possible and at the same time useful/ a good idea to include a sqd of leman russ battel tanks to my army inorder to give them some rolling back up?

[DarkLink]

There's a chart of who can ally with whom in the rulebook.

If you can ally with someone, you can take some units from their codex in a second mini-force org chart, with 1 HQ, 0-1 Elites, 1-2 Troops, 0-1 FA, and 0-1 Heavy Support. You can't ally with yourself.


There are 4 levels of allies:
Battle Brothers: The allied units basically count as being part of your army for all intents and purposes, except allied units can't use your regular army's transports, and vise versa.

Allies of Convenience: The allied units count as enemies, so you can't cast friendly psychic powers on them or join your ICs with them, but you can't target them with shooting attacks or similar.

Desperate Allies: Allies of Convenience, but in addition if a regular unit is within 6" of an allied unit, you have to roll a D6 and on a '6'*, that unit can't do anything.

Forget what the last is called, but the point is you can't ally with that army.


*Check that, this is from memory.


If you take a second FOC at 2000+ points, you can take a second allied detachment of the same army as your first allied detachment.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Yup, DarkLink's got it right. Note that the "roll for derping out" attached to Desperate Allies takes place at the beginning of the Movement Phase.

Deathwing often suffer from a lack of numbers and problems against hordes and parking lot armies, right? The Imperial Guard would probably be a good ally in that case.

[thelion]

ok so what you are saying is that in order to take a min force org from the there special force org chart for them. in other words i cant just add a sqd of ig tanks to my deathwing i have to have a min thankyou for your help guys

[Tynskel]

yeah you need a 'primarus psycher' a vet squad and then some IG tanks.

[thelion]

why are you suggesting a primarus psycher? i was thinking more of a lord comassiar?

[da_WaaaghMaster]

why are you suggesting a primarus psycher?

Good question. I'm curious too. Maybe for anti-psyker defense? Do you use libby's? Or is the Primaris Psyker the guards cheapest HQ? Not that familiar with their codex.

[thelion]

to be honest i dont use alot of hq choices i usuly only have one in there and i kinda have to have that one you see i play a death wing army (go ahead make fun of me everyone i know dose till i hit them with 30 terms on the death wing assault) but i tend to lean twords the Chaplin if i have a second hq choice in there

[sangrail777]

I'll make fun of you all day long "thelion"
really tanks? lol
No really they got it right bro, ya can't just take a sq. of tanks. You'd have to take an HQ and 2 troops first. I really think your own codex can support your deathwing. You just gotta take some basic troops.
You always say how Dark Angels are a shooty army, but you've only tried that aproach once or twice. Use your tacs to set up an outer cordon, and send your deathwing in the center.
Keep asking questions though cuz I think it will help you. And you need help!

(I'm only giving thelion crap cuz I'm the guy that beats him every weekend.)

[sangrail777]

As far as psykers go, we don't use them much in our games, at least to not much effect. We've had issues of allies killlng psykers with vindicators. So sad, it was my psyker dread that took the round.
And I keep killing my opponents psykers in round one or two, mostly by "lucky"/"unlucky" drifting rolls. Honestly I've killed more psykers by mistake then on purpose.

[thelion]

you know at least i keep trying and i dont think i have to take 2 ig troops just one i am just looking at options and some stuff that might be fun to play with :)

[Lemt]

You want some heavy firepower for your Dark Angels but your codex is found wanting? Forgeworld has the answer!
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Support/SPACE_MARINE_RAPIER_LASER_DESTROYER.html
WH40k approved, 3 S9 AP2 Ordnance TL shots at 36". And for the cheap price of only 180 points! The crew are even boltgun-armed space marines, so it's a tough unit to boot.

[thecactusman17]

I'll make fun of you all day long "thelion"
really tanks? lol
No really they got it right bro, ya can't just take a sq. of tanks. You'd have to take an HQ and 2 troops first. I really think your own codex can support your deathwing. You just gotta take some basic troops.
You always say how Dark Angels are a shooty army, but you've only tried that aproach once or twice. Use your tacs to set up an outer cordon, and send your deathwing in the center.
Keep asking questions though cuz I think it will help you. And you need help!

(I'm only giving thelion crap cuz I'm the guy that beats him every weekend.)

HQ and one troop, actually.

Good cheap IG troops? Vet squad with a Commisar or Primaris Psyker both work quite well. Leman Russ Tanks are OK, but a better option for crowd control might be 2-3 Hellhounds in a squadron, thanks to their awesome weapons and inability to miss vs. most targets. They will definitely prove to be more cost effective.

Oh, and don't forget about Vendetta Gunships. Flyers are great, and IG flyers are even better. 3 Twin-Linked lascannons apiece for less than 140 points each? You can get three of these for the cost of two and a half Russ tanks, and often they'll be more effective over the course of the game. Plus they will give you that critical anti-air support as your opponents start to add flyers to their armies.

Be aware, mass-flyer lists are possible but often very un-fun to play against. Bring them only to WAAC competitive events, not to normal table games, unless your opponent knows your intention and has no complaints.

[sangrail777]

So far I've ruled the skies in our games. depending on my list/army I run 2 thunderbolts, or 2 hell blades, 2 dakkajets, etc etc.
The skies are mine.

Good point about the one HQ and one Troop though. But honestly I see him play he needs more then a simple vet squad an HQ and a few tanks can do. The Valks might be nice, but it depends how he'd play them.

He really needs about 3 somethings packing big guns that can reach out and touch you and have 2 tac sq's to stay back and defend these guns.

(I like LEMT's idea)

and thelion I've never knocked you for trying (just for whinning)

[da_WaaaghMaster]

Sounds like he needs some flyers of his own, or a few hydras. I always thought Deathwing/Ravenwing hybrids were the way DA's are supposed roll. All Deathwing sounds powerful on paper, but doesn't seem too tactically flexible to me. Never played against them so honestly wouldn't know.

[Lemt]

Note that what I proposed isn't useful versus flyers!

[thelion]

Sounds like he needs some flyers of his own, or a few hydras. I always thought Deathwing/Ravenwing hybrids were the way DA's are supposed roll. All Deathwing sounds powerful on paper, but doesn't seem too tactically flexible to me. Never played against them so honestly wouldn't know.

they have some power to them but they do tend to flounder since we normal play team games i can rely one my partner for some support for them but yea i do need to find something to help them. im most likley going to stay in my codex for this but i have just ben looking at all of my options