Feel no Pain, Eternal Warrior and Instant Death.

[Lemt]

Let's say a miniature has both the Feel No Pain and Eternal Warrior rules. It is wounded by a weapon that inflicts Instant Death. Is it allowed to use the Feel No Pain rule to try to negate the wound?

Snippets from relevant rules :
Eternal Warrior (p. 35): "A model with this special rule is immune to the effects of Instant Death."
FNP(p. 35): ..."Note that Feel No Pain rolls cannot be made against unsaved Wounds that inflict Instant Death."...
Instant Death (p. 38): "Unsaved Wounds inflicted by an attack with this special rule automatically inflict Instant Death."... (p. 16) ..."...it is reduced to 0 Wounds and removed as a casualty."...

[Aramel]

FNP(p. 35): ..."Note that Feel No Pain rolls cannot be made against unsaved Wounds that inflict Instant Death."...

If you took a wound that would normally cause instant death, then you cannot use FNP. The "effect" that is ignored by eternal warrior is that of losing all remaining wounds. This does not mean that the attack ceases to cause Instant Death. Therefore it still bypasses FNP.

[thecactusman17]

Eternal Warrior ignores the effects of instant death, not that it is not inflicted. An instant death wound is still an instant death wound against anyone it hits, but some models get to ignore the wound loss mechanic of ID.

[stephen.esven]

No FnP can be taken. Since Eternal Warrior negates the effect of Instant Death, the wound does not inflict ID, and thus FnP can be taken.

[Wolfshade]

No FnP can be taken. Since Eternal Warrior negates the effect of Instant Death, the wound does not inflict ID, and thus FnP can be taken.

No, Eternal Warrior negates the effects of instant death, it does not remove the instant death effect from an attack.
As the attack causes instant death you cannot as per the wording of feel no pain use feel no pain, regardless of whether or not you are immune to it.

Welcome to the forum

[Anggul]

+1 to the various people saying you don't get FNP, for the reasons they have given.

[Kevlarshark]

Not too sure how many things this would effect...Greater Daemons of Nurgle, maybe?

Please look carefully at the Eternal warrior wording (there is some paraphrasing for effect going on)

"A model with this special rule is immune to the effects of Instant Death."

The word immune is not ambiguous at all.

One of the effects of Instant death is that you cannot take your FNP save. Model is immune to this (and all other possible ID effects), ergo it should be able to take its FNP save.

If you still feel there is a clash of rules here then roll off for it each time it crops up (The most important rule) p4.

[Zeshin]

One of the effects of Instant death is that you cannot take your FNP save. Model is immune to this (and all other possible ID effects), ergo it should be able to take its FNP save.I think that's the rub. Is the prohibition on using FNP for ID an effect of Instant Death or a limitation of Feel No Pain? I believe it is a limitation of FNP. Combine this with the fact that you may be immune to ID's effects but you have still suffered an unsaved wound which causes Instant Death and you have an unfortunate but fairly clear answer.

[Anggul]

I think that's the rub. Is the prohibition on using FNP for ID an effect of Instant Death or a limitation of Feel No Pain? I believe it is a limitation of FNP. Combine this with the fact that you may be immune to ID's effects but you have still suffered an unsaved wound which causes Instant Death and you have an unfortunate but fairly clear answer.

Indeed, Instant Death doesn't ignore FNP in it's effect, it's FNP which disallows itself against Instant Death causing wounds.

[Xenith]

One of the effects of Instant death is that you cannot take your FNP save.

I'm pretty sure that the only effect of instant death is that the model dies, instantly, having it's wounds reduced to zero. The instant death rule in no way mentions that you get to roll FnP.


One of the effects of Instant death is that you cannot take your FNP save. Model is immune to this (and all other possible ID effects), (emphasis mine)See, now there you have just added words to the rule.

A model that is 'immune to Instant death' is immune to having its wounds reduced to zero by an attack that causes ID, it does not make the weapon with the ID rule lose the ID rule.

[Kevlarshark]

I'm pretty sure that the only effect of instant death is that the model dies, instantly, having it's wounds reduced to zero. The instant death rule in no way mentions that you get to roll FnP.

(emphasis mine)See, now there you have just added words to the rule.

A model that is 'immune to Instant death' is immune to having its wounds reduced to zero by an attack that causes ID, it does not make the weapon with the ID rule lose the ID rule.

No. I was clarifying my interpretation of the rule, the bit where I quoted the rule is in quote marks.

Anggul and Zeshin, you have a strong point here.


"Instant Death doesn't ignore FNP in it's effect, it's FNP which disallows itself against Instant Death causing wounds."


I was initially thinking along the lines of "Immune to the effects of ID means that the effect (in this case no FNP roll) is ignored".

That was my gut reaction to the rule, but as you pointed out "No Feel no Pain roll" bit is not an effect of Instant death or Eternal Warrior but an effect of Feel No Pain. It may still need a bit of clarifying in FAQ, but as it stands my initial view point has been proven incorrect.

Creatures with eternal warrior and feel not pain are quite tough enough already so I am quite happy that they wont get an "extra" save when you finally do hurt them!