Minor Chaos Gods

[DarkDesigner]

Ok, so I've been looking around to see whether anyone had posted something similar and couldn't really see anything, apologies if this is a debate going on elsewhere that you're already sick of!

So, it's always been of interest to me that the four Chaos gods are always talked about as being the 'Major' gods - and the current Daemon codex and army book both mention that there are minor gods in the pantheon.


It occurred to me that the Chaos Star has 8 points, and as there are four major gods representing the four cardinal points of the star, it would make sense for there to be four minor gods occupying the smaller spikes. I was also thinking about the fact that there are 9 traitor legions amongst the first founding, only four of whom are devoted to a god.

So, assuming that the Black Legion should remain undivided in the centre of the star, that could mean that the Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers could perhaps be aligned with a minor deity we just don't know about... what do you think about this conjecture? Is this an idea you like, or do you not really agree with the four unaligned legions having an associated deity? If they did, what do you think that God would be the deity of?

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

The minor gods of Chaos we know of are Malal (or Malice), who represents Chaos fighting Chaos. Don't know if he'd be appropriate to be on the star with the others. The trio of "Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar" are also mentioned, but they're kinda a joke, corrupted names of authors who've influenced Chaos.

The old Lost and the Damned/Slaves to Darkness books often stressed that there's little to no difference between "Strong Greater Daemon" and "Weak Chaos God" (although I assume this doesn't apply to marked Greater Daemons). It's also mentioned that Khorne collects the skulls of "usurper war gods".

Gork and Mork are mostly mentioned in a theological sense now, but in older stuff they'd sometimes get into punch-ups with the Chaos Gods.

I don't think the "undivided" legions would be dedicated to specific minor gods - the Word Bearers believe that it is foolish to worship a single god since they are all part of Chaos and should be worshiped as a single entity/pantheon. The Alpha Legion and Night Lords often distance themselves from warp-worship, although this can vary from warband to warband.

Lost and the Damned/Slaves to Darkness also described the Night Lords and Iron Warriors as being partially dedicated to Khorne.

[rakshasa]

As Rev. Tiberius mentioned, Malal is a major Chaos God that is opposed to the Other Chaos Gods (to restore the balance?) but is rarely mentioned. Pity that as a Chaos Anti Chaos army would be awesome (I know I'm building one :D)

There are other gods although I remember only a couple of what may or may not be minor gods:
One was a god that tried to bring or had a hand in the downfall of the Eldar (think it's somehow serving Slaanesh atm) but i don't remember it's name. Think it was in one of the Ciaphas Cain novels.

Another one was a human on the verge to ascension in one of the Soul drinkers novels that promised deliverance through pain/death. Looked to be somewhat nurglish in appearence but the concept was different than entropy and decay and cycle of life/death.

There might be some others but can't seem to find anything else other than general statements that there are other gods.

[plasticaddict]

If you don't mind crossing fluff Malleus Darkblade dealt with "The Screaming Child God" that had his own small realm. He screamed throughout eternity to share his agony.

[fuzzbuket]

well considering that the star has always been the chaos gods insignia even though slannesh only became a god in 20,000-30,000? ( i think as its birth calmed the warp which led the way for the crusade?)

im not sure if malal is cannon anymore but in the gk books i think it is mentioned that chaos gods arnt gods: just chaos daemons that have grown insanley powerful.

also does the harlequin god/khaine count as chaos gods? i always felt that kahine was a embodiemnt of khorne for some reason? (blood sacrifices ect)

[DarkDesigner]

The minor gods of Chaos we know of are Malal (or Malice), who represents Chaos fighting Chaos. Don't know if he'd be appropriate to be on the star with the others. The trio of "Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar" are also mentioned, but they're kinda a joke, corrupted names of authors who've influenced Chaos.

Lost and the Damned/Slaves to Darkness also described the Night Lords and Iron Warriors as being partially dedicated to Khorne.

Yeah I've read about Malal, and I was always disappointed that Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraze-Etar didn't have any attributes assigned to them, or if they did the information has disappeared into the aether. Certainly didn't know about the Iron Warriors and Night Lords being partially dedicated to Khorne, as a Slaanesh worshipper that makes me feel he's getting a bit big for his boots!


As Rev. Tiberius mentioned, Malal is a major Chaos God that is opposed to the Other Chaos Gods (to restore the balance?) but is rarely mentioned. Pity that as a Chaos Anti Chaos army would be awesome (I know I'm building one :D)

Awesome, make sure you put some pics up and link it here when you do, would love to see that :) I have a sidelined project of daemons based on Necoho, the atheist god. I loved the idea of a god that got stronger the more people swore he didn't exist :)


If you don't mind crossing fluff Malleus Darkblade dealt with "The Screaming Child God" that had his own small realm. He screamed throughout eternity to share his agony.

A screaming child god? There's an idea with some terrifying possibilities, could use Tzeentch daemon rules to represent it perhaps?


also does the harlequin god/khaine count as chaos gods? i always felt that kahine was a embodiemnt of khorne for some reason? (blood sacrifices ect)

In fantasy I'm sure they always said that Khaine was the elvish pronunciation of Khorne, not sure if that's in Eldar mythos as well. I think the laughing God is supposed to be an embodiment of the C'Tan Deceiver, although my Necron knowledge is pretty sparse. I used to wonder whether the C'Tan could be something to do with Chaos, but then I wouldn't place either him nor the Nightbringer in the camps of any of the existing gods, and so they could be protential candidates for minor gods too?

[Kawauso]

In fantasy I'm sure they always said that Khaine was the elvish pronunciation of Khorne, not sure if that's in Eldar mythos as well. I think the laughing God is supposed to be an embodiment of the C'Tan Deceiver, although my Necron knowledge is pretty sparse. I used to wonder whether the C'Tan could be something to do with Chaos, but then I wouldn't place either him nor the Nightbringer in the camps of any of the existing gods, and so they could be protential candidates for minor gods too?

The C'Tan are 100% material, and the Warp is anathema to them.
They were corporeal beings with barely-perceptible forms that fed on the energy of stars when the Necrons found them, and shortly thereafter the Necrons helped fashion necrodermis bodies to 'contain' their essences.

While they're certainly god-like in a lot of ways they have no connection to the Warp whatsoever.

[Wildeybeast]

I've always wondered if there are 'good' gods in the warp. The warp is made of human emotions and whilst the negative ones are strongest (especially in the grimdark future) there are positive ones. I view it as being like the dream realm thingy from the Dragon Age Origins game. The bad emotions/thoughts are the ones that come through and try to eat our faces, but there are also good ones hanging around in there fighting them (Justice appears in one of the expansions).

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

im not sure if malal is cannon anymore but in the gk books i think it is mentioned that chaos gods arnt gods: just chaos daemons that have grown insanley powerful.Malal wasn't used for quite a while due to an IP dispute, but a recent short story features an anti-Chaos Chaos god called "Malice", with the Sons of Malice chaos marines bearing Malal's colors, so he's back :)


I was always disappointed that Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraze-Etar didn't have any attributes assigned to them, or if they did the information has disappeared into the aether.It was mentioned that most Chaos Marines pay tribute to them by putting spikey pieces on their armour, but it was just a tongue-in-cheek reference to some authors, I doubt it'll be worked into canon again.


Certainly didn't know about the Iron Warriors and Night Lords being partially dedicated to Khorne, as a Slaanesh worshipper that makes me feel he's getting a bit big for his boots!The partial dedication's pretty old fluff, though. It hasn't been mentioned for the Night Lords ever since 2nd ed., although it was noted that the Iron Warriors have an above-average number of Bezerkers in the Index Astartes. Considering the original Night Lords contained many criminals, it's pretty likely some small Slaaneshi cults exist within the legion.


I've always wondered if there are 'good' gods in the warp. The warp is made of human emotions and whilst the negative ones are strongest (especially in the grimdark future) there are positive ones.Some stuff mentions that the big four also have positive sides (Tzeentch-hope, Slaanesh-love/artistry, Khorne-honour, Nurgle-fatherly etc). It's just the galaxy's such a grimdark place that the positive aspects are mostly drowned out.


also does the harlequin god/khaine count as chaos gods? i always felt that kahine was a embodiemnt of khorne for some reason? (blood sacrifices ect)40k's always been pretty fuzzy on what they are, although the similarities between Khaine and Khorne are undeniable, right down to the headdress-style. I thinnnnk the two most likely theories in the fluff is that they're either "good" warp deities made by the Eldar or the ancient Old Ones, a material species which made most of the others.

It could also be that Khaine was such a murderous warrior badarse that his existence made up much of the violence and combat in the galaxy, shaping the "young" Khorne into something like Khaine - similar to how Khorne's been mentioned to have Ork-like facial features due to how much violence that race contributes to existence.

[UltramarineFan]

From reading the new fluff on Night Lords they are largely broken up into different factions though will still fight together for certain key objectives and not as likely to fight each other as say the world eaters.
They seem to mostly be unaligned and in the books there are two main guys who really follow chaos, one kills himself, the other is punished for being so bloodthirsty.
Out of the legions I'd say Night Lords would be most likely to follow Malal, as a lot of them see that the chaos gods are real and powerful but also see that to follow them often leads to being semi-taken over by the gods and their wills at best.

[DarkDesigner]

I agree, the Night Lords are said to resent their association with Chaos and so Malal would be a perfect candidate for them.

The Alpha Legion I would possibly put with Zuvassin, the trickster, as their style of subterfuge and deception would appeal to him.

I was thinking, the Iron Warriors are the legion within which the Obliterator virus originated, could this be seen as a blessing from some dark god of technology (perhaps the true omnissiah?).

That just leaves the Word Bearers, who as has been rightly pointed out believe in polytheism and should probably be left with undivided. This leaves only the Black Legion left and the only other minor god I know of (apart from the silly author ones) is Necoho, the atheist god. Although if any Legion were sure of the existence of Gods and Daemons, it would be them, so maybe not...