Chaos Marine Rumor Roundup (BoK and others)

[DrLove42]

Use this thread as the Latest CSM RUMOR ROUNDUP

New rumours on Chaos from BoK

Not sure I like the sounds of things for Chaos dreads.
Also Lucius now sounds like a absolute beast, as do some of the chaos special weapons. Looking forward to seeing the real thing now.
And we've finally got our first Mastery Level 4

Blood of Kittens 8-11-2012

Remember I might just repeat other rumors floating around and debunk others.
–Special Characters–
Ahriman: Mastery Level 4, Same Stats as before, Access to Biomancy, Pryomancy, Telepathy, and Tzeentch. He is the master of witch ire spells, he can cast three spells that are witchfire in the same phase. He can also give up to three units infiltrate ability.
Huron: Same Stats as before, Mastery Level 1, Spells are randomly determined at the start of each turn.
Typhus: Same Stats as before, Mastery Level 2 can only take Nurgle powers, Destroyer Hive has been changed to be a Nurgle Holocaust Str4 AP2 ignores cover. Has Fear
Kharn: Same Stats as before, Him and his Unit get 2+ to deny witch and is completely immune to force weapons. Still attacks random people, but now a sneaky way around it. Always hits on 2+ in Assualt. Best part is he has Hatred that he can give to the rest of his unit.
Fabius Bile: Same Stats as before. Enhanced Warriors can only ever kill one model gives them Str and Fearless.
Lucius: Same Stats as before. His attacks are the same number as your opponent WS (Avatar vs Lucius fun times). Re-rolls all Wounds, Armor saves made by Lucius inflict str 4 ap2 hits back.
–Vehicles–
Dragon: 170pts AV 12/12/10 Can Vector Strike as a MC, Has Str 8 Heavy 4 guns
Shooty Demon Engine: 120pts AV 12/12/10 Two Str 8 Heavy 4 guns
Assault Demon Engine: 135pts AV 12/12/10, Immune to Cover, 12″ Move, Two Str 8 AP1 Melta Weapons, plus PowerFists
Hellbrute New CSM Dreadnaught: 105pts Crazed, BIG CHANGE no more DCW now just power fist will strike at I1
Chaos Land Raider: 220pts Only Godhammer variant, only holds 10 guys, still can get dozerblades
Upgrades: Mini Deff Roller Str 5 Ap – hits and double for failed death and glory, Chaos Lash whips but reduce attacks to 1
–Unique Items–
Demon Weapons: All Demon Weapons on a roll of 1 will attack user, but no longer will you lose the rest of your attacks.
Unique Chaos Power Axe: +2 str Ap2, Blinds Opponents, Gives Rage, Demon Weapon.
Unique Chaos Power Maul: AP4, Fleshbane, Demon Weapon, Any unsaved wounds causes instant death after toughness test is failed, in addition at the end of the assault phase any model with in 3″ must make another toughness test or take an AP1 wound.
Unique Chaos Power Sword: Ap3 Marked for Death, select any character get str x2 AP1 instant death when engaged with that character
Unique Chaos Flamer: Str 5 Ap3 Torrent, Soulblaze
Unique Icon: Once you kill a model the Icon unlocks and any model enemy model within 12″ must take Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests and all friendly deep strikers don’t scatter.
Unique Spell Book: Gain Random powers every turn can possible hurt you as well
–Wargear–
Attack Familiar: Two additional familiar attacks
Magic Familiar: Grants Random Spells
Chaos Iron Halo: 4+ invul can stack with MoT so that means 3+ invul
Flails: AP 2 Str 8 reduce WS of targets
–Units–
Chosen: 19pts each, Infiltrate gone
Terminators: 31pts each, Upgrades got very cheap FULLY kitted 10 man unit is about 400 pts with more versatility than another other Terminator unit in the game. Still has Combi-Spam.
Zerkers: 19pts each, Chainaxe Str 4 Ap 4
1k Sons: 23pts each, Champion Mastery Level 1
Plague Marines: 24pts each, Same as before now have Poison Assault Weapon
Noise Marines: 16pts each, Must still buy Sonic Weapons. Sonic Blaster 24″ inch Str 4 Ap5 Salvo, Ignores Cover, Blastmaster 25 pts assault 2 or heavy 1 blast same as before now with ignores cover, Doom Siren Same as before.
Assault Oblits: Elite Slot Weapons act like Ymgarl Genestealers powers
Possessed: Random Chart is now D3 acts like Ymgarl Genestealers powers, but determine at the beginning of the turn.
Havocs: 13pts each, 5-15pt drop for all special weapons from past edition, can buy Flak missiles
–Psychic Powers–
Tzeentch: 4 powers only. Prime Power Random Str blast that keeps on exploding random hits for every dead model, 1-2 Roll on Big Chart re-roll spawn result, 3-4 Bolt of Tzeentch but how is a Beam, 5-6 Breath of Chaos
Ok that is all I got guys every last drop of rumor juice is gone! Enjoy, oh wait what is this at the bottom of my cup…
Prepare to be Despoiled
Abaddon is still one bad ***. His stats and cost remain the same. He will always be your Warlord. Drach’nyen: Demon Weapon, Specialist Weapon, +1 str ap2. Talon of Horus: x2 str, re-roll wounds, BA get hatred to Abaddon, Any friendly unit within 12″ of Abaddon gets Preferred Enemy. The biggest thing about Abaddon though is he makes CHOSEN TROOPS
Latest from Faeit 212 8/13/2012


Chaos Codex Shipdate - September 8th
All new Chaos Minis will release by end of September


Faeit 212 8-18-2012

Hellbrute Rules

I just want to clarify that while it is listed as having a Power Fist and not a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, because it is a Walker it does not suffer from the Unwieldy special rule, that's why it's simplified in the codex entry.

120 points

It's 12/12/10
Str 6, ws 4, bs4, i4

Multi-Melta / Power Fist (with inbuilt combi-bolter)

can swap the Multi-Melta for a butcher-cannon, or twin reaper auto cannons (which is pretty cool, since that's an entire riflemen in one arm, but with less range), twin-linked lascannon or a twin-linked heavy flamer.
can swap combi-bolter for a meltagun or heavy flamer

Has rampage

Mark of Khorne: Rage USR
Mark of Nurgle: 5+ restore a hull point OR repair immobilized / weapon destroyed at the start of a turn. Does not let it get back up after having been killed unlike Unholy Vigor.
Mark of Slaanesh: Sonic scream, gives it offensive/defensive grenades
Mark of Tzeench: flame weapons (if it has any) are +1 strength and -1 AP (heavy flamers are AP3... whaaaat)

9/5/2012 Via Faeit 212

Latest CSM Cultist rules
2687

9/10/2012 via Faeit 212


Schedule
September 23rd for Games Day UK the CSM codex will be there......
September 29th pre-orders are up.
October 6th is the release date.
October 20th, all new units in the codex are released.


Dark Apostles
It's correct in how they are purchased and that they confer abilities to the unit they're in.

They universally confer fearless(because they are fearless) and furious charge. Beyond those two, the abilities that they add to the unit are not as good as the ones you have posted, and in some cases not even remotely similar.

Dark Apostles's are more along the lines of watered down cult troops, but if added to a cult unit they still "bolster" the cult units effects.

i.e. Dark Apostle in a Plague Marine unit get FnP 4+ instead of 5+, or confers a 5+ to a unit of marines or cultists.

Let me be frank though and clarify that there is no unit that gets rampage that is not limited to 3 models. It's reserved for independent characters, walkers, monstrous creatures and some multi-wound, small number units.

Your unit of 8 khorne berserkers doesn't potentially double in effectiveness by taking less of them.

Daemon Princes
The daemon prince stuff is accurate
Daemon Princes are exalted CSM's, not Daemon's (though they have the Daemon rules), so they are not the same as from the Daemon codex. They have clear heritage as space marines.
the chaos space marine daemon prince being increased by 40pts! & having the lash ability taken away for good
the daemon prince will have to pay the same points for wings as a daemons prince from the chaos daemons codex so it is is more balanced.

[Wildeybeast]

All sounds interesting enough. I don't play Chaos but I am quite excited to see how the first new codex of the edition works.

[Mr Mystery]

All seems quite restrained for a rumour.

Still not terribly convinced the Hellbrute replaces Dreads though. As ever I shall wait and see!

[The Madman]

the dreadnought sounds like bull, why would chaos ones be worse then loyalist ones? makes no sense.

[Wildcard]

I am having a hard time figuring out how the hell the GK are supposed to

a) Survive all that ap2 / ap3
b) Manage a fair fight against those chaos dudes
c) HQ options pitched against each other..
d) That many str8 ap2 weapons available will render paladins to a point of uselessness (not that i've personally ever used them that much)

Not that it isn't great that Chaos Space Marines are getting a new codex, quite the contrary.

Great to see new rules, and first 6th ed design codex wise come to life!

[DrLove42]

Complaining about yoir grey knights finding it hard isnt going to garner a lot of sympathy

[Wildcard]

Dr Love, I aint living in a 5th ed, and, if you would have seen me play ever, you couln't point a single time i had psyfleman or more than 3-4 psycannons in a 2000+ pts game.

Nor was i looking for any sympathy, just fyi..

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

This coulda gone in my Chaos thread, jus' sayin'.

[Cpt Codpiece]

ahriman...... i dont know what to say. master of the corvidae and no divination tree :confused: he was not skilled as a pavoni, no a pyrae and certainly not an athenean.

hmm either BS or GW dropped the ball big time

[Kawauso]

The potential widespread S8 Heavy 4 weapons that these rumours suggest (Butcher Cannons, I'm assuming?) has me both excited and worried about Chaos.

I mean, a walker with two S8 Heavy 4 cannons at 120 points?
And a flyer with 1-2 of those at 170? Plus Vector Strike?

Sounds awesome to use, but it doesn't sound like it will be terribly fun to play against...

Ah well. As always these things are hard to gauge at this point.

[the jeske]

the guns are hvy 2 . the walker does get 4 shots [with 2 guns] and the flyer gets 2 . I love how people look up the rules and then switch to writing about the guns and instead of writing the actual stats write the number of shots. All nice an well unless stuff has 2 weapons.

[Kawauso]

the guns are hvy 2 . the walker does get 4 shots [with 2 guns] and the flyer gets 2 . I love how people look up the rules and then switch to writing about the guns and instead of writing the actual stats write the number of shots. All nice an well unless stuff has 2 weapons.

Where did you get that info from?

I ask because while S8 Heavy 4 guns do sound crazy-good, they also -do- match the profile of a weapon that already exists - namely the Butcher Cannon from FW on the Decimator daemon engine.

[the jeske]

yes true . but I assure you there is no 220 pts 8 shots str 8 walkers with +4 inv[+5 from possession +1 for being tzeench] in the new chaos codex .

[da_WaaaghMaster]

ahriman...... i dont know what to say. master of the corvidae and no divination tree :confused: he was not skilled as a pavoni, no a pyrae and certainly not an athenean.

hmm either BS or GW dropped the ball big time

I was about to say the same thing. Maybe GW doesn't care about the HH books? Shouldn't he have all disciplines anyway? Anything will be better than the last codex though; he was a total putz there.

Also, there's an awful lot of ap1-2 CC attacks at a time when most of us have all gone to ap3 or worse; and are usually stuck @ initiative 1 to get that ap2.

Any rumor on army comp? My Thousand Sons have been shelved since the last codex and I'd like to dust 'em off!

[Defenestratus]

welp... all I can say is... if this true, a new army book for my armies needs to hurry up :P

[Bigred]

by Cpt Codpiece
ahriman...... i dont know what to say. master of the corvidae and no divination tree he was not skilled as a pavoni, no a pyrae and certainly not an athenean.

hmm either BS or GW dropped the ball big time

To be honest, I don't have a problem with Ahriman if the rumors are true. The studio needs to carve out space for the handful of "Uber-psykers" in the game. Really at the top tier you're talking about:

Ahriman
Eldrad
Fateweaver

They are all immortal, or close enough, so Master Level 4 would seem justified when they get codex updates. As a designer, you probably don't want them to be cookie cutters of each other, so its better to give them a thematic focus.

Eldrad should certainly be the divination dude.
Ahriman as the firepower guy would fit with the overall ***-stomping theme of the Chaos Marines.
Fateweaver probably lies between the two - part divination, part firepower.

Its been 10000 years since the Heresy. Maybe Ahriman just got bored of divining the future only to have Tzeentch pull the carpet out from under him. More effective to just set the loyalist-idiots on fire and move on.

[Solution9]

I've been trying to get into 40k for a while. I finally got my 6th Ed rulebook in the mail the other day. I may now consider doing a Nergal army. Was thinking of Trynaids or Space Wolves but Chaos has had me thinking for a while and now with an upcoming book I may now really consider it.

[ragnarcissist]

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/08/chaos-marines-september-8th-and-more.html

Summary by bigred

Chaos Space Marines
Initial wave including codex - September 8th
All additional units shipped by end of September



exciting!!!!!!

[da_WaaaghMaster]

@ Solution9. space Wolves are a sure bet, I'd stay away from 'Nids until you have a good grasp of the rules. As far as Chaos is concerned; You WILL be playing with a Chaos army eventually (There's no choice, Chaos claims everyone sooner or later), so you may as well get it out of the way and collect Chaos first!

On topic: A little disappointed if the rumor is true about the tzeentch discipline only getting 4 powers.

Also: Eldrad is dead, he couldn't divine that Slaanesh was going to eat his face. There's now room for a new divination guy. I nominate Ahzek Ahriman! (I'm more than a little biased here)

Don't get your panties in a bunch Eldar players, I was only making a joke.:D

[Kawauso]

Also: Eldrad is dead...

I know you were joking, but to be fair, people like Tycho of the Blood Angels are also dead, and that never seems to stop them from showing up on battlefields. :P



Would be nice to have a reason to want to take Ahriman. Though I kind of hope he gets a new model. Just looks a little dated right now.
I know he won't though. :(

[da_WaaaghMaster]

Thanks for the info! This is awesome news!

This got me too:
Starter box not being released in September at all....:(

It's coming in August!!!:eek:

Those bastages @ GW keep taking my moneys.

[Archon]

Lucius: Same Stats as before. His attacks are the same number as your opponent WS (Avatar vs Lucius fun times). Re-rolls all Wounds, Armor saves made by Lucius inflict str 4 ap2 hits back.

This seem to be good. Never realy used him, but the model is cool and so is the background. With this rule he comes near his reputation as a swordsmaster who likes the confrontation with equel foes and gets bored, when he is forced to fight guardsmen:cool:


Noise Marines: 16pts each, Must still buy Sonic Weapons. Sonic Blaster 24″ inch Str 4 Ap5 Salvo, Ignores Cover, Blastmaster 25 pts assault 2 or heavy 1 blast same as before now with ignores cover, Doom Siren Same as before.

Another rumor pearl. From overpriced to valued. Guess the Sonicbalster is 2/3 ;) wicht will make acutaly no change to the current state.


Hellbrute New CSM Dreadnaught: 105pts Crazed, BIG CHANGE no more DCW now just power fist will strike at I1

Wonder if GW will NOT sell these guys:confused:


Chaos Land Raider: 220pts Only Godhammer variant, only holds 10 guys, still can get dozerblades

This is so meh and boring ... and still no dreadclaws *sigh*



The potential widespread S8 Heavy 4 weapons that these rumours suggest (Butcher Cannons, I'm assuming?) has me both excited and worried about Chaos.

I mean, a walker with two S8 Heavy 4 cannons at 120 points?
And a flyer with 1-2 of those at 170? Plus Vector Strike?

Sounds awesome to use, but it doesn't sound like it will be terribly fun to play against...

Ah well. As always these things are hard to gauge at this point.

Don´t forget that butcher cannons are usally mounted on a demon engine and sofar BS 3 and compare this with the psyfilmen who put out 4 TL/S8 shots per turn (and still kinda possessed).

[Kawauso]

Don´t forget that butcher cannons are usally mounted on a demon engine and sofar BS 3 and compare this with the psyfilmen who put out 4 TL/S8 shots per turn (and still kinda possessed).

But see, 2 butcher cannons on a BS3 platform vs. a Psyfledread is on average just as good with the potential to be quite a bit better.

8 shots at BS3 avg. 4 hits. Which is about the same as the Psyfleman with its 4 twin-linked shots at BS4. But the daemon engine has the -potential- to get up to 4 extra hits that the Psyfleman can never manage.

Hence my worrying - but as always we'll have to wait and see.

[ragnarcissist]

these next couple of months are gonna be rough on the wallet! cant wait for the leaked pics!!! should be in mere days

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Le sigh.

[Wildeybeast]

I call nonsense. This breaks the current, well established and effective release schedule - WD comes out last Saturday in the month, the big release wave is 7 days later, with a secondary one two weeks after that. On this basis we have the smaller release 7 days after WD with a big release another 7 after that? I don't see it.

[Wildcard]

And as a daemons, they get 5++ save
as a daemon engine they get (rumoured) hullpoint regeneration, ignore shaken and stunns.

[Defenestratus]

Also: Eldrad is dead, he couldn't divine that Slaanesh was going to eat his face.

Yes! The great result we achieved as a result of "winning" that summer campaign that one year...

We Eldar players choose to not recognize that bit of tripe that GW tried to foist on us.

[eldargal]

Not to mention it is actually ambiguous. The bit in the latest codex about one of his students, Q'sandria, claiming he is stil alive. Q'sandria is a play on Cassandra who was a Trojan seeress who was cursed so no one would believe her. ;)

As prevously mentionedbeing dead is no handicap for being an SC.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes! The great result we achieved as a result of "winning" that summer campaign that one year...

We Eldar players choose to not recognize that bit of tripe that GW tried to foist on us.

'Ah, yes, "Eldrad is dead", we have dismissed these claims.'

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/479/hqdefault.jpg

[ragnarcissist]

if this is true, the schedule would probably look like this:

- Preorder Starter: August 25th
- Release Starter: September 1st
- Preorder Chaos: September 8th
- Release Chaos: September 13th


but we wont know till the WD is leaked

[Doktor Porkov]

So, is Hellbrute meant to be a regular Infantry, as opposed to being a Monstrous Creature or a Walker?
I base this on the line that he is armed with a power fist, striking at Initiative 1 (due to Unwieldy). If he is a Walker or MC armed with a power fist, he would surely strike at normal Initiative, as Unwieldy does not apply to either MC or Walker.

[Scripts]

...but we wont know till the WD is leaked

Assuming a store breaks the embargo and risks the wrath of GW...:(

Of course, if it is a individual not affliated with a store, then GW can't do anything about it...:cool:

[Archon]

But see, 2 butcher cannons on a BS3 platform vs. a Psyfledread is on average just as good with the potential to be quite a bit better.

8 shots at BS3 avg. 4 hits. Which is about the same as the Psyfleman with its 4 twin-linked shots at BS4. But the daemon engine has the -potential- to get up to 4 extra hits that the Psyfleman can never manage.

Hence my worrying - but as always we'll have to wait and see.

First they won´t come cheep as a psifelmen.
Second what is bad in been better than a psifelmen?:cool:

In the end - when chaos gets a psifelmen too, yes thats will be a little sour, cause you can´t complain about the gk ones any more and people will build lists with a least 3 of them as they ever do the exploid.

[Kawauso]

First they won´t come cheep as a psifelmen.
Second what is bad in been better than a psifelmen?:cool:

In the end - when chaos gets a psifelmen too, yes thats will be a little sour, cause you can´t complain about the gk ones any more and people will build lists with a least 3 of them as they ever do the exploid.

According to the latest rumours, it's 120pts for that walker with 8 S8 shots at BS3. That's cheaper than a psyfleman and better.

My complaint stems from the fact that psyflemen are too powerful for what they cost, and I don't think the solution is to give another army access to something better.

[lattd]

We don't know if the HellBrute can always shoot, it may have a chart like the current dread and be a bit annoying as its not garuanteed.

[Mephistonsrage]

Ahhhh, the joys of chaos are about to be spread over Terra. Glad to see they will be the beasts they are supposed to be, and that the named characters and daemon weapons are alot more thought out in how to use them in their applications. Hellbrutes sound fine to me. We'll see about the dreads.

[xilton]

land raider still 30 pts bellow marines. Spirit of the machine is not what it was anymore and not worth 30 pts diff.

those psyriflemens will be dozies even at BS3. wonder if they'll have other rules that make them not as good as we think they'll be

ahriman level 4. might be pushing it a bit here. wonder what he'll cost with all those rules.

I do hope the dragon flyer will be a nice model

flails AP2?!? don't get that one, I know they want to make them unique but AP2. Hoping not everyone can use them. Might have it 5-10 pts per model maybe. we'll have to see. many changes here.

Hope the new walkers have nice models for once. The old dread was awful and personally, the defiler is uuugly at best (even if some like it)

[da_WaaaghMaster]

The rumors being released so close to the official chaos release makes me think they're mostly accurate. This is pretty unfortunate as they seem rather beardy. I sure hope there's something in the codex that will help to balance out some of this over-the-top power. I'm quite happy to have my Thousand Sons gain a bit of power, but not if it invalidates my other armies. Maybe GW's intention is to have a good-guy army that nobody wants to play against (GK's), and a bad-guy army nobody wants to play against?






P.S. .....Eldrad might probably be mostly dead.....maybe.... :p

P.P.S. ...Tycho can't be dead, he's a vampire. Only werewolves can kill vampires right? ;) (just don't ally with Space Wolves)

[DrBored]

Remember a few things. Some may have already been mentioned.

Daemon engines will probably be BS3 instead of the ubiquitous BS4 that we like to associate with marines.

A lot of those Daemon Weapons and awesome HQ's will probably cost quite a few points.

Looking at the individual rumors as is makes it seem like we're getting a lot, but once it's all organized into slots and choices, we're going to see things calm down quite a bit. Then we'll get into the list-breaking phase where people try to tell you that a few of the new kits are total bunk and the rest are absolutely necessary in every army.

Then they tend to switch places. For example... the Dreadknight. I'm just hoping the Hellbrute just isn't a chaos Dreadknight... I really don't want any more baby carriages.

[namzum]

i can see more people playing chaos with these rules it was good being only 1 of 2 people playing them :( . but hopefully it will make a change from playing against BA, SW and GK all the time.

[Kevlarshark]

Daemon weapons are currently Chaos Lord only, 40pts and you can only have one in your force, cant see that changing much...

I am quite glad about the Strength 8, 4 shot (butcher cannon?) you guys should probably be more worried if the storm laser has made it in.

It fills a gap in the 6th Ed Chaos shooting and allows players to decide what to take rather than "I need a shooty unit...lets get the Obliterators". Now it looks like there are going to be actual choices in the codex.

Thank god too, I was completely sick of the old Chaos codex...Almost every unit in it was just feeling sad and tired. Even the useful units like 'Zerkers, Plague Marines, Daemon Princes and Oblits suffered from the 'only good choice' problem.

Now I have some hope that there will be options for each role in my lists... Now if I need an Assault type unit I have the option of taking Bezerkers or Raptors maybe Chosen or even a CC type Hellbrute?

Sod the 'beardy' type debates till we see the points costs and FOC.

[The Shadow King]

Sorcery wise I think each power should get access to it's own lore and Divination for Tzeentch, Biomancy for Nurgle and Telepathy for Slaanesh. That would seem to make sense, no? With the current lists for unaligned guys and girls.

[Demonus]

Hope the new walkers have nice models for once. The old dread was awful and personally, the defiler is uuugly at best (even if some like it)

The Defiler should have had 2 giant crab claw hand options as the other options for are just awful. WTF is that squid arm flail thing supposed to be?

[Kevlarshark]

It was supposed to be a "living vehicle" upgrade from the previous codex which gave the defiler D6 S4 shooting attacks with a mighty 3" range...oddly the actual model bit is longer than the range of the attack...no one used it, it was rubbish.

GW then forgot it was still in the box.

[Deadlift]

The Defiler should have had 2 giant crab claw hand options as the other options for are just awful. WTF is that squid arm flail thing supposed to be?

Could not agree more with this, it looks like some demented swing ball game, instead of a weapon.

[DrBored]

A friend and I were playing other friends with our Chaos lists against Grey Knights, Orks, and Blood Angels in different matches. I did decently, but it was a struggle the whole way. He just got stomped unfortunately. What's sad is that he's just getting into 6th edition and Chaos Marines. Kept trying to tell him to just hold off for a little while longer...

[Thanatos_elNyx]

Sorcery wise I think each power should get access to it's own lore and Divination for Tzeentch, Biomancy for Nurgle and Telepathy for Slaanesh. That would seem to make sense, no? With the current lists for unaligned guys and girls.

I would think Tzeentch should get access to all lores given that the Thousand Sons were the ones to come up with the lores in the first place.

[Kawauso]

This could help shore up the rumours of an imminent Chaos Marine release:

Recently I ordered two boxes of the Finecast Chaos Marine Raptors from the website miniwargaming.com, as they were a daily deal at the time and the price was too good to ignore.

The order languished for a couple of weeks in 'processing', which is pretty unusual, but just today I received an e-mail from them about it. They apologized and informed me that the Raptors are no longer available from Games Workshop.

Now I've sorted out a refund and all that good stuff, but the really interesting takeaway to me is that it seems like this is a good piece of evidence in favour of an upcoming Chaos book and models (including, apparently, some new kit for Raptors/jump infantry).

[spaceman91]

my local manager has said to me after a very sneaky phone call that it would not be the starter first. when i asked if it would be chaos he smiled and said he couldn't say. make what u will of that.

[mallet_man]

did there not used to be a chaos space marine bike squad available as well on the GW site? personally I am hoping that we see pics soon to show they have redone all the troops choices into a few plastic kits esp the basic chaos marine and noise marine sets! With a Dark Angel Librarian and Chaos Marine?! in the back of this months white dwarf does that mean it is looking more likely the starter set will come first then again like people have said here why release a starter set for models who's rules are being updated a couple weeks later exciting times ...

[DrLove42]

Faeit 212 (http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/release-confirmations-starter-set-and.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Faeit212+(Faeit+212))


via Ravengardt here on Faeit 212
this time I got something for you.
and the where briefed. On two things. Yeah you guessed. 25.08. will be preorder date for the starter box. There will be a limited version with an Interrogator Chaplain. 08.09. will be the release date of CSM Codex.

Things are starting to firm up!

[machidiel9]

Take a look at the pre-view of the new box set, and all reputable sources are talking about the dread being replaced by the hell-brute. The Hell-brute is just basically a daemonic dread that you can dedicate.

[Kawauso]

Boo, rampage. =/

I know it was a pipe dream, but I was hoping for something like a Thousand Sons sorcerer dreadnought.

Rampage isn't so fun...particularly when (at a glance) it doesn't look like this thing gets any benefit over loyalist dreads.

[DrBored]

Boo, rampage. =/

I know it was a pipe dream, but I was hoping for something like a Thousand Sons sorcerer dreadnought.

Rampage isn't so fun...particularly when (at a glance) it doesn't look like this thing gets any benefit over loyalist dreads.

Nope, not a whole lot of benefit. Just some different weapons, the abilities to get marks to give them a 5+ hull point recovery, rage USR, sonic scream (and we don't even know what that is) or whatever else. We also don't know what vehicle upgrades they can have, or the exact wording of the Rampage rules yet. We do know that it'll be about 120 points base, but that's comparable to other dreads base.

I predict, however, that the Hellbrute will be one of those big juicy kits that everyone will drool over, but that won't actually be that useful on the tabletop. Just like the Dreadknight. Everyone was gushing over that, but in the end... I certainly don't see it on any tables.

It's possible that after a points investment, the Hellbrute could become something decent, especially since it can potentially move AND run AND assault all in the same turn. That's like... 6 + 3d6" of movement? Max of 24 inches that you could get in one turn? That means someone, someday, is going to get lucky and get an assault first turn with that beast, and everyone is going to call it broken and cheese.

Even though the chances of getting that many 6's is... well, low enough to be ignored.

[Kawauso]

Nope, not a whole lot of benefit...We also don't know what vehicle upgrades they can have, or the exact wording of the Rampage rules yet. We do know that it'll be about 120 points base, but that's comparable to other dreads base.


True. But loyalists get the same thing with a storm bolter in place of a combi-boltgun for 105 points, sans Rampage.

I know we don't have a full picture or anything, and of course I withhold final judgment - just not sure I like how it looks from here.

Your assessment of the model with regards to its kit and relation to tabletop performance could well be accurate. I know that no matter how good or bad it is, I'm going to want some form of dread for my Thousand Sons (contemptor, maybe...?).

[DrLove42]

Faeit 212 reported that rampage is different

Apparantly now if you fall victim to it, you still shoot twice, but at the nearest enemy in range. If no enemies in range, then at your units. Failing that, he has to run at the nearest enemy and then can assault them normally

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Yeah Rampage seems to be useful in some ways! Especially the chance of 8 Twin-linked reaper Autocannon shots... :L

WAIT... Rampage is a USR? I am not saying it wont get crazed, but I reckon it'll also get the Rampage USR :D. Which could see a khornate dread with two fists get up to 9 attacks on the charge if your in a combat with Numerical Superiority (+ 1 for extra fist [I am presuming it starts at 2], + 2 for Rage and + D3 for Rampage)

[Learn2Eel]

You guys have it mixed up.
Rampage is a USR that the Hellbrute has which gives it D3 bonus attacks in a combat where enemy models outnumber friendly models.
Crazed is the Hellbrute-specific rule that Chaos Dreadnoughts currently have and is being tailored for the new Hellbrute.

If you roll a Blood Rage result and have Mark of Khorne as well as a second power fist, you are looking at very early charges with potentially 10 attacks on the charge striking at initiative order, strength 10 and AP2. I would like to see a Loyalist Dreadnought that can put out that many strength 10 attacks.

As far as not having benefits over loyalist Dreadnoughts, I laughed a bit. This thing gets lots more attacks even without the second melee weapon, and can be a rifleman (albeit with shorter range) whilst still keeping the power fist. Add in marks to give it crazy stuff like flame storm cannons (heavy flamers and mark of Tzeentch) and you are looking at some nasty combos loyalists simply don't get. The only question is the costs on upgrades; as it stands, the 15 extra points looks to be worth it base, even with Crazed.

[Bigred]

Latest Rumored CSM Cultist Stats

2686

[Blackmonkey0]

Just in case someone has not mentioned it already the CSM Battleforce is no longer available from UK GW website.

[DrLove42]

Also some blogs are reporting that their stores have been told not to order any more CSM codexes from GW

[Galadren]

Also some blogs are reporting that their stores have been told not to order any more CSM codexes from GW

Indeed. My LGS owner just told me the other day that he can't order the CSM Codex at all anymore.

[Deadlift]

Latest Rumored CSM Cultist Stats

2686

Not convinced by this one. The layouts all wrong.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Gentlemen, Chaos is coming.

[Deadlift]

Just as I am thinking of starting an Ork army :P

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I thought you were considering Eldar?

[Deadlift]

I did, even bought a wraithlord too. But after discovering washes using oil based paints and white spirit and weathering powders with alcohol, well Orks it was. Plus the codex is a good fun read. Lets face it all other armies kind of take themselves a bit too seriously. Orks are comic relief in the grim dark future. I really like that.

Plus Sotonshades told me too :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Damn that Shades...

[Angron]

I find myself cautiously enthusiastic that new CSM won't be a steaming pile on delivery.

[Learn2Eel]

Has no one seen the new rumours on Faeit? A recent batch of them were proven to be false by the man himself, but Naftka posted another set that is from one of his reliable sources.


via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)

Dragon Flyer - 12/12/10

2 butcher cannons, bs3, immune to shaken/stunned, can be locked velocity as normal. Flyer only, no hover/skimmer mode. Can vector strike at strength 10. Strafing run.
Because this might be misinterpreted I'm going to be really clear: It does not have "two firing profiles." It has 2 butcher cannons, and that's it. It does not have blasts of any kind. It is "BS4" against ground targets because of strafing run (go read it, it's a USR for details).

Terminators can be upgraded to chosen, getting +1 WS (5) and +1 wound (2), and fearless. They can take marks on top of that. It gets expensive.
- Interestingly enough, when upgraded they are troops if you take Abbadon, yet normal Terminators are Elites.
There are no "chaos storm shields,"
The best you can get is Mark of Tzeench to upgrade your 5+ invulnerable from Terminator armour to a 4+.

There is a piece of chaos wargear that gives a 4+ invulnerable, but it is not a storm shield it can just be added for characters. Yes it upgrades via mark of tzeench to 3+. No it's not available for sorcerers.



Some very interesting tidbits, particularly related to the Dragon. Lots of rumours pegged its points cost at about 170, and many people were wondering what it had to justify the price tag. Well, I think 8 S8 shots a turn plus a S10 Vector Strike whilst being daemonically possessed is our answer. If true, this thing will absolutely maul other flyers - even Stormravens. With this thing, you could potentially - and it wouldn't be all that unlikely - destroy two Stormtalons in a single turn. One with a Vector Strike (D3+1 S10 automatic hits), and the other with the 8 S8 shots.
I saw some people complaining on the website that it sucks it can't hover, but really, why would anyone want to? Between flying, AV12, and Vector Strikes and BS4 against ground targets (yes, that's insane), you make Grey Knight Psyflemen Dreadnoughts look like pansies by comparison for only 35 points more - if these rumours are true.

Also, the part about Chosen Terminators being Paladin equivalents really caught my attention, especially given how you are able to give them both Marks and Icons to make them essentially Cult Chosen Terminators. And, if the recent Dark Apostle rumours are true, could anyone imagine T5 2W Feel No Pain +4 Terminators paired with Abaddon who makes them Troops? It's cheesy as hell, but every rumour says that doing stuff like that gets really expensive. The sheer fact you can do stuff like that though is amazing - it really sounds like they are embracing the unique nature of Chaos armies, I can really see a lot of distinct, competitive army lists popping up everywhere.

Hopefully these rumours are true.
Also, anyone notice the bit about being able to give characters a +4 invulnerable save, and then pair it with the Mark of Tzeentch to give a character a +3 invulnerable save? Dark Iron Halos anyone? Hopefully Ahriman has that.
It sounds like out Lords are going to be insane in this codex.

[Learn2Eel]

Just had a revelation.
So, most rumours have this thing at 170 points, which, as I discussed above, is an absolute steal for how much damage this thing puts out.
Now, anyone remember those earlier correlating rumours that said daemon engines - including the dragon - had an ability to re-roll to wound and Armour penetration rolls?
Combine that with the data above....and you have something beyond awesome for its points.

They are just rumours though, but I am starting to get very excited.

[Kawauso]

Just had a revelation.
So, most rumours have this thing at 170 points, which, as I discussed above, is an absolute steal for how much damage this thing puts out.
Now, anyone remember those earlier correlating rumours that said daemon engines - including the dragon - had an ability to re-roll to wound and Armour penetration rolls?
Combine that with the data above....and you have something beyond awesome for its points.

They are just rumours though, but I am starting to get very excited.

These kinds of rumours do the opposite of make me excited.

I want CSM to get good stuff, including a flyer, of course.

I don't want them to get stuff that's -so- good it makes everything else pale in comparison - like psyfledreads, etc.

[Learn2Eel]

I do agree, and with Phil Kelly at the helm it should be a well balanced codex. But, frankly, I'd rather Chaos be over-powered than under-powered, if that makes any sense.

[bolsadmin]

Dark Apostles and Daemon Prince latest added to OP.

[Gir]

Local Games Workshop has announced that the next White Dwarf has been moved in to the 22nd of September. This means we should see some leaks next week.

[lattd]

And could allow marines in september... as some rumours had suggested.

[Mr Mystery]

Local Games Workshop has announced that the next White Dwarf has been moved in to the 22nd of September. This means we should see some leaks next week.


Don't count on it. White Dwarf seems to suggest it's Dark Angels next, going on the inside back cover.....

[celestialatc]

So Daemon Princes are losing Lash? They better have some neat abilities to make up for that!

[Twizted86]

So normally I don't post, but I thought this might be worthy of something. I might be reading into it too much but the Los Angeles battle bunker just posted on facebook that this Saturday they will be unveiling their new realm of chaos section (gaming boards they have been working on) and that they will have some more excitinging announcements.

[Zeshin]

So normally I don't post, but I thought this might be worthy of something. I might be reading into it too much but the Los Angeles battle bunker just posted on facebook that this Saturday they will be unveiling their new realm of chaos section (gaming boards they have been working on) and that they will have some more excitinging announcements.Those tables are pretty sweet, but when I brought it up to the very tiny woman running the store she didn't even seem phased and said it was a local event only. I don't necessarily believe her, but she seemed genuinely confused why I would think it implied a chaos release.

[incenerate101]

Here in Memphis (north American HQ) everyone is hyped about chaos being taken off the shelves slowly ( only things left in our store are plague marines and the basic troops ). Looking at the projects the staff is working on are also pointing at chaos release soon.

[Twizted86]

Those tables are pretty sweet, but when I brought it up to the very tiny woman running the store she didn't even seem phased and said it was a local event only. I don't necessarily believe her, but she seemed genuinely confused why I would think it implied a chaos release.

Well they are also starting a dark vengeance escalation league on the 24th, but you can't make a Chaos army out of the box. So I'm not really understanding their events.

[DrLove42]

Now we've got some bits from WD (the pictures) a little more info on some rules has floated through

Faeit


Chaos Space Marines
- its coming along with the new models - within the next 2 weeks.
- Hard Cover
- Phil Kelly is the author
- Some photos of the 'dex are in the WD, though they're quite small and hard to make out text.
- Lots of background included
- Some beautiful artwork
- Several rules mentioned, including 'Veteran of the Eternal War' (not sure of the specifics as I don't have the WD handy) but from memory it gives a unit fearless (definately not 100% sure on this - might be +1LD) and Prefered Enemy (Space Marines). Cannot say if this rule is an upgrade or universal rule.
- There is a Chaos Boon table, which I believe has been discussed before. When an IC defeats an enemy IC in challenge, they can choose to roll on the table. Looks to be 2D6 (maybe even 3D6) and that IC recieves a boon for the rest of the game. Image of this table is too small to make out what each result is.
- New Maulers (CC varient oblits)

All hail the Church of Kelly!

[DrLove42]

Even more info!


either a new Abbadon nor a new kharne -for now-
The close combat obliterators (mutilators) are a finecast kit
There is a new finecast sorcerer (unimpressive) an a Dark Apostle (beyond awesome)
From the ForgeWorld News: There is a picture of Angron. The miniature.

BramGaunt on Warseer has mentioned that the codex cover is the same used on the Black Library book, "Blood Gorgons".

Dark Apostle, sorcerer, aspiring champion (new finecast): 15,50€
Warpsmith: 23€
Codex: 39€
Raptors/warp talons: 26€ (same as sanguinary guard)
Heldrake: 59€
Forgefiend/clawfiend: 52€
Mutilators: 41€ (3 finecast)

Obliterators and everything else thats metal goes finecast, that includes Death Guard and Thousand Sons.
the Codex cover artwork is the one that was already used by the BL "Blood Gorgons" Novel.

There are only 4 psychic powers per God, sadly.
If you upgrade your Demon prince to a specific god he gains hatred for the opposed chaos god

A posessed vehicle ignores stinned an shaken on 2+, but if a unit embarks you have to roll a D6 : on a roll of 1 you lose a random member if the squad and the vehicle regains 1hp
Obliterators can morph assault cannons

Rival Chaos gods? I guess Khorne vs Nurgle, Slanesh vs Tzeentch?

No new models for lots of guys, and maybe nothing new for 1k Sons, or Kharn is dissapoint

Also disapointed the new awesome CC Obliterators aren't used for the normal oblits

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No, the divide has always been Tzeentch vs Nurgle and Khorne vs Slaanesh.

[lattd]

Always thought it was khorne v tzeentch, the combat vs magic and nurgle v slaneesh, pestilence v decadence

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The main rival of the Lord of Sorcery is Nurgle (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Nurgle), the Plague Lord. Where Tzeentch seeks to build and constantly evolve, the Lord of Decay desires only to break down and dissolve, disrupt and destroy. On innumerable occasions Tzeentch's intricate plots have been foiled by Nurgle's malign influence, and the two Chaos Gods' daemonic and mortal servants clash as often with each other as with their mutual enemies in the Imperium. Despite Tzeentch's rivalry with Grandfather Nurgle, he is nonetheless the Chaos God with the most influence over the other Ruinous Powers (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Ruinous_Powers). At times, the Chaos Gods must unite and act in concert if their individual plans are to reach fruition, and it is always Tzeentch who brokers these rare alliances of Chaos Undivided (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos_Undivided). However, Tzeentch never acts out of altruism, and it can be guaranteed that every time he moves to unite the powers of Chaos he does so ultimately with his own unfathomable goals in mind.


There exists an ancient rivalry amongst the Lords of Chaos. Khorne's arch enemy is Slaanesh; Khorne is a spartan god who acts outwardly, killing others. He hates the hedonistic Slaanesh, an inwardly acting god who seeks to pleasure himself with every act and experience. As such, Khorne and Slaanesh personify two entirely opposing aspects of Chaos. Also, Khorne favors a straightforward approach to combat, and considers any form of sorcery as cowardly. Thus he is also deeply scornful of Tzeentch and the Changer of Ways' constant plotting and scheming. yet Slaanesh, considered a weakling without martial pride or honour by Khornates, incurs most of Khorne's hatred.

There we go.

[DrLove42]

So in other words, to deal with my friends Tzeentch demon list I need a lot of Nurgle stuff

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes.