Which army for which amount of experience?

[TheVoidmaster]

I have a friend who, while isn't new to table-top gaming(he is huge into Magic the Gathering) recently decided that he would problably like to get into Warhammer 40k. Before he makes his decision on what army he buys, he wanted to know which armies match which amount of expertise.

What I mean is this, which armies belong in which difficulty category. Here is what I am thinking, I have kinda based this off of my experience(been playing 40k for 4 years now) and which armies are forgiving if you make mistakes, can do most things relatively well and don't have an obvious weaknesses etc.

Good for people new to games(Beginner)
-Space Marines
-Blood Angels

Good for people who have some experience with table-top games(Intermediate)
-Space Wolves
-Imperial Guard
-Tyranids
-Necrons
-Chaos Demons
-Chaos Space Marines
-Orks
-Grey Knights

Good for people with 40k experience(Expert)
-Eldar
-Dark Eldar
-Tau

This is, so far what I am going to tell him. What does everyone think? Is an army not where it belongs?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Grey Knights are a beginners army, because they require no thinking to play them. Take copious amounts of cheese and you're set.

I would probably also point out that M:TG isn't tabletop wargaming. :p

[Wolfshade]

Orks are a great beginners army.

Step 1: Gather all the Boyz
Step 2: Charge!
...
Step 4: Winning!

Obviously, there are more subtle ways to play orks, but when you are charging with 30 boyz 4 attacks each most things tend to die under an avalanche of die

[the jeske]

a good starting one is A one which is good in general B one that has acess to all teh good stuff in the game/edition C plays its own game more or less ignoring what opponents try to do D ignores most of the mechanics in the game either by replacing them with own superior ones or not carring.

good starting army in 6th are necron . lots of flyers , very good hth . ultra shoting . partly ignore being killed, partly ignore other rules[night fight , tesla and overwatch, guass and vehicles , necron vehicles rules , scarabs both of the swarm and the brain warping sort ,non necron flyer transports geting destroyed and their cargos going up in flamers etc].

SM ok for a shop , because they are easy to sell , problem is they do not make a good army . A dude that someoen told that sm ok will hit the NPE wall very fast , an Necron player wont ,

GK are good too because they play their own game . problem with GK lists in 6th is that this is not 5th , to have a good GK army you need a lot more skill . +your probably going to build a different army then you do at start.no such problems with necrons .

But it is true that GK and SW are good fire and forget army . Buy 15 RL LF some transports 2-3 GH with full plasma Term WG and you can play for a year and then sell the army.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

GK need skill? Oh really?

Funny then that I saw a 12 year old with a GK army massacre a Veteran with a Nid army at the weekend. :p

[DrLove42]

Yay! All of my armies (including my starting one) are expert level!

Best way to choose an army is say **** it to the internets ranking and pick models you like. If you like the models, you;ll get on better with the army.

Main choice is style of play and models.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yay! All of my armies (including my starting one) are expert level!

But are you an expert? :p

[DrLove42]

Well I wasn't when I started....all the way back in 4th

Now though....nope still not one :D

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Bless.
I'm becoming an expert, nearly there.

I started in 4th as well. :D

You're another person that I need to play against. :p

[Learn2Eel]

I have a friend who, while isn't new to table-top gaming(he is huge into Magic the Gathering) recently decided that he would problably like to get into Warhammer 40k. Before he makes his decision on what army he buys, he wanted to know which armies match which amount of expertise.

What I mean is this, which armies belong in which difficulty category. Here is what I am thinking, I have kinda based this off of my experience(been playing 40k for 4 years now) and which armies are forgiving if you make mistakes, can do most things relatively well and don't have an obvious weaknesses etc.

Good for people new to games(Beginner)
-Space Marines
-Blood Angels

Good for people who have some experience with table-top games(Intermediate)
-Space Wolves
-Imperial Guard
-Tyranids
-Necrons
-Chaos Demons
-Chaos Space Marines
-Orks
-Grey Knights

Good for people with 40k experience(Expert)
-Eldar
-Dark Eldar
-Tau

This is, so far what I am going to tell him. What does everyone think? Is an army not where it belongs?

Personally, I'd chuck Chaos Daemons and Tyranids into the Expert category as well. Dark Eldar aren't too hard to use, or at least they weren't in 5th Edition, but given how 6th has hit them....hmm yeah they can stay. I'd move Orks and Grey Knights into the beginners section.

My thoughts on each army individually - these are tips you could give your friend if you think they are suitable;
Space Marines - ultimate beginner's army (poster boys for a reason). Most adaptable army, small model count, versatile. Can deal with any situation, and your troops are tough.

Space Wolves - some more complicated tactics but a very strong army if used right. All infantry having counter-attack, long-fang units split-firing and Wolf Guard/Wolf Scouts, etc require some more careful thinking due to their better arsenal/abilities to exploit them fully.

Blood Angels - what goes for Space Marines goes for them, though Blood Angels are more suited around rapid assault. They are the fastest Marine army in the game which is no mean feat. Easy to learn but you need to consider some more interesting options like Death Company, Librarian Dreadnoughts and super-characters like Mephiston. Remember the Red Thirst!

Dark Angels - an older codex that is suffering from codex creep, but they are still Marines. They are also one of the few armies in the game that can do an entire army of Terminators (!) - known as Deathwing - but they are also well known for their rapid moving force of land speeders and bikes - the Ravenwing. Difficult to master but well worth the trouble.

Grey Knights - they aren't quite as easy to learn as Space Marines, even though they are arguably the easiest codex to win with as a beginner. You need to remember a lot more rules and interesting options, such as how every unit in your army is a psyker (even your vehicles!), the other army that is able to take an entire force of Terminators (!), and capable of probably the most disheartening forces to face off against. Plenty of mobile firepower, great at shredding infantry, suffers somewhat against vehicles - particularly at long range - amazing close combat ability, even on the basic troops! They are however very much an army that requires care to use - they are super-elite marines that will always be outnumbered.

Chaos Space Marines - an older codex that can put out frightening amounts of models and firepower. Daemonically possessed Vindicators are the bees knees. Daemon Princes, Obliterators, Defilers, Plague Marines and the like are all great choices. Remember the difference between you and normal Space Marines - you are better in combat and cheaper, but lack And They Shall Know No Fear and comparable ranged weaponry. A good choice for any player, even a beginner. Good model range too - if you like daemons and spikes.

Chaos Daemons - arguably the hardest army in the game to use. Definitely not for beginners. However, they are hugely rewarding if used right - they can be absolutely devastating in good hands. Remember that very few armies can stand up to you in close combat.

Imperial Guard - a good army, but not the best one to start out with because of the insane amount of options/models on offer. They can field more firepower and models than any other army in the game, period, and will do so regularly, even in a more elite 'veteran' army. You are, however, possibly the weakest army in the game when it comes to close combat. Simple trick; stay back, shoot! Always remember that you can field 9 tanks (and I mean TANKS) as opposed to an opponents 3.

Orks - a great beginners army. Possibly the simplest army in the game to play - your ultimate goal is to charge straight at your opponent and fight them in melee. How you get there is up to you; on foot, in a trukk, or with a rokkit on your back? You decide.

Tyranids - another difficult army to learn that I wouldn't recommend for beginners. Tyranids embody synergy moreso than any other codex; everything in your army has to complement one another. Never think about a unit or model individually; think about the army as a whole and the place that unit or model has in the army. Lots of little bugs and some big bugs is the best way to go; Tervigons are frightfully good....at making your opponent rip their hair out as the bugs they killed simply get replaced by new ones. Zoanthropes and Hive Guard are almost a necessity.

Necrons - a codex that got super-charged by 6th edition changes (expect other codexes to pick up as well as they are re-done/FAQ'd), they are the kings of medium-range shooting, and scarily durable. Their 'We'll Be Back!' rule is intimidating for any opponent; they have to really focus fire on each of your units until they are wiped out, meaning your other units can move up with ease. And if they don't wipe the unit out, laugh as half of them get back up and continue fighting! Watch out for combat though; an area most Necron units suffer from greatly due to their low Initiative. However, their durability often sees them through combat, and coupled with We'll Be Back rolls mean you can lock a dangerous enemy unit in combat for a long time. Don't forget about Wraiths, Scarab Swarms, Lychguard and the like though; they are point-for-point some of the nastier assault units in the game. A good army to learn with.

Eldar - advanced players only. Known for years as the 'expert army', they require a deft touch and a prudent mind to master. If you do manage to learn the tricks of the trade - literally - with them, you can be almost untouchable. Just remember that your armies are less durable, smaller and put out less firepower than most other armies in the game. You have to really remember what each unit is good for; Fire Dragons are tank hunters, first and foremost. Dark Reapers are there to cut Space Marines down like butter. Wraithguard are devastating at close range against any target. But also remember each units weakness!

Dark Eldar - hit hard by 6th Edition, they are a hard army to use. You will often outnumber your opponent and have much more firepower, the trade-off is that you are quite easily the least durable army in the game. A common Dark Eldar army will have around 50-60 models at 1500 points and you should expect most of them to die in every game. You fly around in paper planes with armour made from silk. Remember that you are also probably the fastest army in the game, and abuse that like no tomorrow. Expect losses, so don't pour points into fewer units. Learn to control your engagements; if your opponent has weapons that can take down your Ravagers, rush them off to the other side of the board and throw your paper planes at them instead!

Tau - a difficult army to use, but well worth it. You outgun every army in the game, but you are also horrible in combat, about the same level, if not worse, than Imperial Guard. Remember that, and remember you are a very mobile army. Your battlesuits are amongst the most respected units in the game for this reason; you can jump out of cover, cause devastating damage at range, then jump back out of harm's reach before your opponent can retaliate. You have the single most powerful gun in the game, the Railgun. It will usually be in range to shoot on any board and you can pretty much say goodbye to whatever it hits. I would recommend learning how to use units as deterrents and ambushers; Crisis and Stealth battlesuits are exceptional in this role, as are Kroot as distractions. Your battlesuits can do a lot of damage, but they can't take too much back. That is probably the mantra of this army; you deal out a whallop of hurt, but you get it dished back in spades.

Hope this helps!
Remember to tell your friend though that, as echoed above, its more about what army you like the look of most that should affect your decision. Every army can be made into a fun and competitive option. My general descriptions above are more based on the 'meta'.

[Wolfshade]

Yay! All of my armies (including my starting one) are expert level!

Best way to choose an army is say bananahammock it to the internets ranking and pick models you like. If you like the models, you;ll get on better with the army.

Main choice is style of play and models.

This ^^

[TheVoidmaster]

Thanks everyone for your imput.

The reason GK is not in beginner is because they do have an obvious weakness, they only have 2 weapons for fighting heavy armor like Land Raider or Monoliths or Leman Russ'. Orbital strike is not very accurate unless you get servo-skulls near which is hard to do since most players will be within 6 inches of them and conversion beamer only fires once and can still scatter. While its easier to hit a vehicle in melee now, having no answer for those heavy vehicles means your men gotta take it to the teeth over and over again before they get there, meaning even if they take that heavy out, there may not be enough left to win the game. I have seen this a few times when GK go up against Leman Russ heavy IG, its not pretty. Other than that, melta weapons are pretty hard to come by. Unless you bring allies, but where not going there lol.

Necrons also not beginner because while they are great at shooting, they still get owned really badly in close combat by just about anything thats a dedicated CC unit. A unit of 20 Necron Warriors is almost guranteed to get beat by a 10 man Assault Marine squad and get sweeping advanced meaning Reanimation Protocols is useless. If you know how to exploit this weakness, a CC army can wipe the floor with your Necrons.

Yes, I am aware that Necrons have some CC of our own, but Lychguard are overpriced, C'tan are WAY overpriced, Scarabs can tarpit things, but will only win in massive numbers, and no one is going to take Spyders over the Doomscythe because of how awesome it is. Wraiths are about the only exception but they still have slow intiative and whip coils make them cost more than a Terminator and they still get owned by massed shots/CC attacks and no Reanimation Protocol.

I've played Necrons for years, and the reason for their not being a beginner army is complicated, as you can see.

[Learn2Eel]

Thanks everyone for your imput.

The reason GK is not in beginner is because they do have an obvious weakness, they only have 2 weapons for fighting heavy armor like Land Raider or Monoliths or Leman Russ'. Orbital strike is not very accurate unless you get servo-skulls near which is hard to do since most players will be within 6 inches of them and conversion beamer only fires once and can still scatter. Other than that, melta weapons are pretty hard to come by. Unless you bring allies, but where not going there lol.

Necrons also not beginner because while they are great at shooting, they still get owned really badly in close combat by just about anything thats a dedicated CC unit. A unit of 20 Necron Warriors is almost guranteed to get beat by a 10 man Assault Marine squad and get sweeping advanced meaning Reanimation Protocols is useless. If you know how to exploit this weakness, a CC army can wipe the floor with your Necrons.

Yes, I am aware that Necrons have some CC of our own, but Lychguard are overpriced, C'tan are WAY overpriced, Scarabs can tarpit things, but will only win in massive numbers, and no one is going to take Spyders over the Doomscythe because of how awesome it is. Wraiths are about the only exception but they still have slow intiative and whip coils make them cost more than a Terminator and they still get owned by massed shots/CC attacks and no Reanimation Protocol.

I've played Necrons for years, and the reason for their not being a beginner army is complicated, as you can see.

Grey Knights have a few ways of dealing with AV14, but they aren't reliable, except for the Vindicare. Psycannons are reliant on good rolls to deal with AV13 and AV14 - you need 6s. Ultimately the best way for most armies to deal with AV14 are meltas but Grey Knights lack that, instead we get Psyflemen dreadnoughts which can glance them to death, or even daemonhammers.

It depends on the Necrons though. I charged a unit of Immortals that had a Cryptek with that annoying lightning power, and half my Wych unit died instantaneously. Charging a Daemon Prince/monstrous creature at a Necron/Destroyer Lord or Overlord can end very badly if they have the appropriate wargear. They aren't always easy beats in combat because they are still very durable. Sweeping them also isn't the easiest thing to do; they are all either Leadership 10 or Fearless, and if you beat them that badly for them to fail on average then you probably are hitting them with a nasty assault unit.

Scarabs are good against vehicles and walkers I probably should have specified. I agree on the others. Wraiths scare most people in my store but most of them don't see them as what they are; two wound Space Marines. Toughness 4, 3+ save. Just shoot them with massed bolters, don't worry about things that are AP3 or lower which should probably be shooting at other targets anyway.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I've found a way to make Flayed Ones viable.

[Learn2Eel]

I'm surprised no one I know of uses them to be honest. I've always liked Flayed Ones. They may not be the most competitive option but it's not like they are Chaos Spawn.

[TheVoidmaster]

Grey Knights have a few ways of dealing with AV14, but they aren't reliable, except for the Vindicare. Psycannons are reliant on good rolls to deal with AV13 and AV14 - you need 6s. Ultimately the best way for most armies to deal with AV14 is meltas but Grey Knights lack that, instead we get Psyflemen dreadnoughts which can glance them to death, or even daemonhammers.

It depends on the Necrons though. I charged a unit of Immortals that had a Cryptek with that annoying lightning power, and half my Wych unit died instantaneously. Charging a Daemon Prince/monstrous creature at a Necron/Destroyer Lord or Overlord can end very badly if they have the appropriate wargear. They aren't always easy beats in combat because they are still very durable. Sweeping them also isn't the easiest thing to do; they are all either Leadership 10 or Fearless, and if you beat them that badly for them to fail on average then you probably are hitting them with a nasty assault unit.

Scarabs are good against vehicles and walkers I probably should have specified. I agree on the others. Wraiths scare most people in my store but most of them don't see them as what they are; two wound Space Marines. Toughness 4, 3+ save. Just shoot them with massed bolters, don't worry about things that are AP3 or lower which should probably be shooting at other targets anyway.

I see your point, but a squad of Immortals with a Cryptek is over 200 points. So, they should be tough to kill, but I bet if you had hit them with an equally expensive unit of Incubi...would have been a totally different story.

I also agree that Lords/Destroyer Lords can hold up to a Demon Prince/MC, they can survive its attacks but because of low WS and I low attacks, they will most likely die after putting 1 or two wounds on them. For them to be able to have a chance to beat a Demon Prince/MC, that Lord is gonna be expensive, like over 200 points expensive.

[Learn2Eel]

I was talking more about MSS and the like. Your opponent might expect it, but they can't do much about it. If I ran Necrons though I wouldn't bother with them personally, they seem like expensive gimmicks to me. Not that I disagree with your overall point - Necrons should not get into combat, but I think they hold their own better than Imperial Guard and Tau.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Mindshackle Scarabs are so worth it!

Take 20 Flayed Ones
Take a Destroyer Lord with MSS and Res Orb
Have fun
.........
Profit!

[TheVoidmaster]

I was talking more about MSS and the like. Your opponent might expect it, but they can't do much about it. If I ran Necrons though I wouldn't bother with them personally, they seem like expensive gimmicks to me. Not that I disagree with your overall point - Necrons should not get into combat, but I think they hold their own better than Imperial Guard and Tau.

MSS definately has its place. Only problem is, it is random who gets hit. So, you might not get that Sarge with Power Fist. :(

I'm really suprised at all this Flayed One talk. They're OK, but I'm sure as heck not gonna spring for that finecast model as I would need alot and they are expensive money wise.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I didn't make mine from FAILCAST. :D

I made them from Warriors.

[jifel]

Most of the power armor codexs are easy for beginners really. Space Wolves, vanilla, BA and Gk I'd say are the "easy to play" ones. The "medium" are probably Crons, DE, Orks, Chaos, Daemons and IG (who arent bad for new players) and then the "hard" ones are SoB, Nids, Eldar and Tau.

[Chumbalaya]

Play with the models he likes most. Pretty much every army can be made easy or difficult, what's more important is learning the game and how to best use your army.

[Anggul]

Just get him to choose which army he likes most. Let him look at the models, read a bit of the fluff and decide that way. The rest can come afterwards, and is part of learning. I started with Nids, then expanded to Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau.

If the player is young and finds it hard to understand new concepts and strategies, Start with vanilla Marines, they're good for that, and show off a lot of the basic rules, types etc.

Anyone above the age of 12 however, should probably be okay to start with whichever army they really like the look and fluff of and still get into the game and do fairly well. What's the point in being able to win games if you don't like the army you're doing it with?

[the jeske]

GK need skill? Oh really?

Funny then that I saw a 12 year old with a GK army massacre a Veteran with a Nid army at the weekend. :p

that says more about nid power level then anything . At top tournament level GK are a hard army to play + they arent the army a dude starts when he picks up GK . a new GK guy may do draigo , less chance for a puri spam in 6th , but in general his army will have GK in it . Best GK armies are build with cortez and henchman and a lot fewer GKs.



What's the point in being able to win games if you don't like the army you're doing it with?
0_o what kind of oxymoron is this . but then again you western guys say it is possible to dont like a jobs that pays . God knows what goes on in your twisted world .

If he ever played seriouse MtG he will want a working army and care little about how the models looks like[as long as they are easy to transport] and/or their fluff.

[Archon Charybdis]

MSS definately has its place. Only problem is, it is random who gets hit. So, you might not get that Sarge with Power Fist. :(

Challenge. If he refuses now the Pfist isn't attacking your squad and you can MSS some other schlub, and if he accepts he may well end up hitting his own guys (though it's very likely a Lord will kill him before he strikes). Mindshackle Scarabs were obnoxious before, they're downright broken with the advent of Challenges.

[Neelam]

Thanks everyone for your imput.

The reason GK is not in beginner is because they do have an obvious weakness, they only have 2 weapons for fighting heavy armor like Land Raider or Monoliths or Leman Russ'. Orbital strike is not very accurate unless you get servo-skulls near which is hard to do since most players will be within 6 inches of them and conversion beamer only fires once and can still scatter. While its easier to hit a vehicle in melee now, having no answer for those heavy vehicles means your men gotta take it to the teeth over and over again before they get there, meaning even if they take that heavy out, there may not be enough left to win the game. I have seen this a few times when GK go up against Leman Russ heavy IG, its not pretty. Other than that, melta weapons are pretty hard to come by. Unless you bring allies, but where not going there lol.

.


Woah woah, firstly you can't reduce the scatter of OSR - not that anyone takes it ! Psycannons /psybolt riflemen do just fine at taking out 13/14 in 5th it was a bit of a struggle but in 6th you're laughing. Also a raven does a damn fine job at anti armor , multi melta + assault cannon usually does the job.

Another option is interceptors with a hammer / psybolt ammo (Strength 5 will glance rear armor to death on anything that isn't a landraider / necron quantum shielding.

Just adding my 2 cents - not having a go!

[Kyban]

Another option is interceptors with a hammer / psybolt ammo (Strength 5 will glance rear armor to death on anything that isn't a landraider / necron quantum shielding. !

Actually Necron shielding doesn't protect rear armor! :D