1500 Space Wolves .... need help deciding between two lists

[Whereswaldo]

I have been having a hard time on deciding if I want to play a space wolves army that uses drop pods or rhinos for the main means of transportation. I would rather use drop pods but I have not played any since the new rules have come out and I am still painting my army. I have not purchased any drop pods or rhinos yet and I would like some input on these lists before I make a decision. Any advice to improve these lists to make them stronger or if there is something I am missing due to the new rules please let me knows. Any input on which of the two lists is stronger would also be appreciated. I feel like the first list is more durable but less flexible and mobile than the second. I have been looking around for battle report videos of drop pod armies but I have found less than a handful (so I don’t know if they are inferior to rhinos or just less popular. Thank You - sorry for the cut and paste

Space Wolves 1500 Point Drop Pod Army Variant – List 1

1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader, Terminator Armor, x2 Wolf Claws – 130 (Pack Leader for a 8 man unit)
3 Wolf Guard (x3 Terminator Armor, x3 Combi-Melta, x3 Power Fist – 174 (Pack Leaders for the 8 man units)
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) - 170
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) - 170
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) - 170
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) – 170
10 Grey Hunters (x2 Plasmagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) – 205
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback) - 155
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback) – 155

1499 Total

I am tempted to change the Long Fangs to 4 Multi-Meltas each and throw them into a drop pods instead of a razorbacks but I’m not sure on how well that would work. – being within 24” at turn 1 with MM’s would be nice.
Dreadnought equipped with a Multi-Melta, Close Combat Weapon (with storm bolter attached), and extra armor in a drop pod costs 175 (and I have one lying around) – could replace the plasma hunters with a dreadnought and upgrade the wolf guard battle leader to a wolf lord with that option. I’m just not sure how viable Dreadnoughts are right now with the current rules / army make-ups.
Not exactly sure on the Wolf Guard Battle Leader’s wargear but It worked with the points. Thinking swapping the WGBL for a Wolf Priest in Terminator Armor.

Space Wolves 1500 Point Mechanized Army Variant – List 2

1 Rune Priest (Living Lighting, JOTWW) - 110 (Pack Leader for one of the 9 man units)
3 Wolf Guard (x3 Combi-Melta, x3 Power Fist – 129 (Pack Leaders for the 9 man units)
9 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino) - 185
9 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino) - 185
9 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino) - 185
9 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino) – 185
10 Grey Hunters (x2 Plasmagun, Wolf Standard, Rhino) – 205
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback) - 155
5 Long Fangs (4 Missile Launchers, Razorback) - 155

1494 Total Point Value

On both lists in higher games the razorbacks would be upgraded to TTL I wanted to but I could not spare the points. I would have liked to add Thunderwolf Calvary to list 2 but the points were not there. I’m trying to keep the list at 1500 then as I play with it add on to what its lacking for 2000 point games.

[Filthspew]

I dont think they differ that much, just two means of delivery.

Drop pods are in your face, but only half in turn one. The rest might be late and come dripping.
Since you have little control over reserves, that is a problem with the drop pod list.
And as you noted yourself, its static. Once there, your mobility is gone.
But for objective grabbing missions, it has an edge.

The good thing is that you can place reserves where needed.
You can spend all remaining points on power armor, as you dont need armor saturation.
If only rhinos are on the table, they are gone faster than drugs at a wych party.

Your lists are both lacking variation and versatility IMO.
Throw a plasma in there, a mark of the wolfen or so.
And use the long fangs abilities, with a single lascannon or whatever you fancy.
Be careful not to block your own firing lanes when drop pods come down!

Dreadnoughts have taken a hit in 6th, especially in cc.
But they are still mean machines, and a great way to vary a drop pod list.
Never take multi meltas though. Assaultcannons!
An assaultcannon is better against any AV but 12 and way better against wounds.
Just pummel vehicles with dccw.

Personally I would prefer the drop pod list.

Mainly because so many talk about it and nobody does it :)

But Im not sure its tournament competitive, exept it will throw some people off not knowing what to do with it..

[RGilbert26]

Is there a reason why you don't have 5 heavy weapons in the Long Fangs?

[Learn2Eel]

I'll be honest, I can't offer great advice when it comes to Space Wolves. I like the Drop Pod list more though for the reasons listed above - very few people run a drop pod list, and as such a lot of gamers wouldn't know how to properly deal with it. Also, it'd be hilarious - you are right in your opponents face on Turn 1, you probably blow up a few of their transports and you get charged, laughing as you not only get more/the same amount of attacks they do but have virtually two rounds of shooting as well (one as Overwatch).
Space Wolves are very much the ultimate "come at me" army. You don't want to get charged by them but charging them isn't fun either.

[Learn2Eel]

Is there a reason why you don't have 5 heavy weapons in the Long Fangs?

The Sergeant can't take a heavy weapon. He only has a 5 man squad.

[RGilbert26]

Wrong, Long Fangs can be 6 strong with 5 heavy weapons and Wolves dont have Sgts.

[Vashtek]

If you are going with drop pods, I'd go the whole hog and drop the long fangs to get a couple of multi-melta dreads with heavy flamers in pods. These can then be 'the first wave' if you need them to be against certain armies. It also means that hopefully you wont be wasting your hunter units bolter shots on vehicles and you'll be shooting the people inside instead. There's a good chance that the long fangs will be in the dark, have difficult firing lanes due to all the drop pods and be isolated from the rest of your list. AP3 is no longer great at blowing stuff up which you need to do with an alpha strike type list. I'd also go with a rune priest for the pod list - you can line up really nice JOTWW shots.

The rhino list is basically fine, albeit slightly dull. I'd still consider having one drop pod with a double melta squad as it forces your opponent to do things differently. Also nice for the relic mission.

[Learn2Eel]

Wrong, Long Fangs can be 6 strong with 5 heavy weapons and Wolves dont have Sgts.

Erm do you not see that he has 5 man squads? And actually, Longfangs come with a Squad Leader? So no, I am not 'wrong'. :rolleyes:
Where would he free up points then for the 6th member in each squad? That would be better than simply saying "Why don't you have this?".
He'd have to free up about 50 points to fit the extra members into each squad, I'm not sure where he should cut out the points. Four missile launchers split-firing is pretty darn good as it is, I don't think he needs another one in each unit.

[Whereswaldo]

Ya, the long fangs are short a man because of the lack of points. After thinking I am really wanting to try to make drop pods work. I might try to keep the first list and swap the WGBL for a RP, swap the long fangs to 4 Multi-Meltas and put them into a pod instead of a razor. There is always the option of dropping one of the long fangs for a dread in a pod.

Thanks for the advice so far, has really been good ... anything else? Idk when I think of space wolves drop pods come to mind and if they are not played very much could be a good surprise for some games.

[Whereswaldo]

As of now the list is looking like this


Space Wolves 1500 Point Drop Pod Army

1 Rune Priest, Terminator Armor, Combi-Melta, Chooser of the Slain – 135 (Pack Leader for a 8 man unit)
(JOTWW, ?)
2 Wolf Guard (x2 Terminator Armor, x2 Combi-Melta, x2 Power Fist – 96 (Pack Leaders for the 8 man units)
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) - 170
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) - 170
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) - 170
10 Grey Hunters (x2 Plasmagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) – 205
10 Grey Hunters (x2 Plasmagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) – 205
6 Long Fangs (5 Multi-Meltas, Drop Pod) – 175
Dreadnought (Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon (with built in Heavy Flamer), Extra Armor, Drop Pod) - 150

1491 Total

I swapped one of the melta packs to another plasma ... with the amount of melta I have in this list x2 plasma packs in pods should help with terms / other heavy infantry.

Not sure what is the best choice for the 2nd power on the RP and I really would like to get Master of Runes on him.

Thoughts?

[Denzark]

I think in 6th the WG packleader has lost out to the free second weapon upgrade in a 10 man squad. Also I would consider you have too much redundancy in troops.

So, would say drop WG, go for 10 man squads with free weapon.

Also some Mark of Wulfen as a further discouragement to being charged.

Dro at least 1 GH squad to get something bigger and nastier like an extra dread - no one sh*ts it at one suicide dread.

[Learn2Eel]

I agree with Denzark. A single Dreadnought is too easy a target and not very threatening. Pairs of things is usually the best way to go.

[Sash]

I too agree with Denzark. It seems that 6th ed rewards versatility far more than 5th. I'd drop the dred for another long fang pack with missiles unless you're trying to stick %100 drop pod theme.

I'm not a big fan of wolf guards in term armor because I always get busted wanted to assault into cover and avoid it instead because of the lack of assault grenades.

One thing that I've really liked is sticking some mark of the wulfen grey hunters in my packs and then giving it to a single wolf guard. Together they've wiped out entire squads and the guard is a relatively cheep character that can pack a lot punch in a challenge situation.

[Whereswaldo]

Here’s what the list is looking like now …. Thinking about swapping the dread’s assault cannon to a Multi-Melta. Wanted to work in the Mark of the Wulfen with the Grey Hunter squads but didn’t have the points … i’m hoping a Wolf Guard with a Power Fist will be enough.

Space Wolves 1500 Point Drop Pod Army

1 Rune Priest, (Runic Armor) – 120 (Pack Leader for the 8 man unit)
(JOTWW, Living Lighting)
3 Wolf Guard (x3 Combi-Melta, x3 Power Fist) - 99 (Pack Leaders for the Grey Hunters)
8 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) - 170
9 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) – 185
9 Grey Hunters (Meltagun, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) - 185
10 Grey Hunters (x2 Plasmagun, x1, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) – 205
10 Grey Hunters (x2 Plasmagun, x1, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod) – 205
Dreadnought (Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon (with built in Heavy Flamer), Extra Armor, Drop Pod) - 165
Dreadnought (Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon (with built in Heavy Flamer), Extra Armor, Drop Pod) - 165
= 1499

Drop x2 Grey Hunter packs with Wolf Guard pack leaders and x2 Dreadnoughts at turn 1 (or a x1 dread and a plasma pack depending on whats on the table).
Wait for the Rune Priest pack to be dropped hopefully for a good JOTWW and the plasma packs near heavy infantry for rapid fire.
It’s a static delivery for reinforcements but it could throw people off depending on how its deployed and when. I really want to try to keep the drop pod theme.
The drop order could be adjusted to w/e depending on how they deploy but I think thats how it would work out the majority of the time (turn 1 JOTWW in the right spot could be interesting too)

Any other advice … its been really helpful so far

[Filthspew]

That is a really nice list!

Something most people will never have seen before (7 drop pods), is allways fun.

You have 50 power armor at 1500 pts.
And they are bloodthirsty wolfkin at that.

Thats awesome. Many people will have trouble with so much 3+ at that pts level.

Mostly for the aesthetics, Id like some variation between the squads, but that a taste issue.
Especially mark of the wolfen, a saga somewhere etc.

There are so many tactical possibilities here.

Dont forget how much space 7 drop pods need.
When the first 4 come down, leave room for the rest in the rigth places.

Also, you can trap parts of an army with them if your opponent deploys wrong.
Set them on a line and disembark to the one side, with the rest of the opposing force on the other.
Divide and conquer at its finest :)

I think it will be a fun list, and it will grow on you the more you play and learn to use its tactical options.