I <3 Ultramarines

[eldargal]

I'm not the biggest Space Marine fan in the world. I don't like the GWs policy of Marine ******** which ultimately creates a cycle of Marine support and other races neglect. I don't like some of their ridiculously over the top background. I'm really, really sick and tired of FW producing one Land Raider or dreadnought variant for every xenos unit.:rolleyes:

I know it is fashionable to hate them, but I really love the Ultramarines.


I love their colour.
I love their Greco-Roman influenced aesthetic.
I love their background, that they were the ones who dusted themselved off after the HH and kept the Imperium together.
I love their long history of duty and service without any of the gimmicks of the Blood Angels or Space Wolves.

I <3 Ultramarines. If I were going to have a proper Male Marine army, it would be Ultramarines.

So there.:rolleyes:

[Kyban]

They are pretty neat, and as GW's poster boys they get a lot of love so there's no lack of good fluff. The problem is they are also so common because of that, at my FLGS we have two regulars who play Ultramarines which is about the same as any other codex, including other vanilla marines.

[Anggul]

Ditto.

Not sure what the 'Male Marine Army' part is about, but yeah, agreed on everything.

If I were to ever play a Marine army, it would be them and possibly Dark Angels too.


Not before I get everything I've ever wanted for my xenos first though. :p

[Typhusoid]

I tend to agree with you on your point about aesthetics, I really love the Greco-Roman theme. I don't hate Ultramarines the way some people seem to, but I suppose I find them a little dull. I attribute this to two things:

1) Generic-ness. The Ultras are pretty much the base, benchmark SMs, so all the other chapters tend to seem interesting by comparison. In particular, the fact the are so diligent about the Codex Astartes; a little deviation tends to add character. When you hear about, Iron Hands, that they are focused on enhancing themselves with cybernetics and using heavy vehicles that instantly creates a kind of feel and character. With Ultras it's 'they adapt to suit the situation.' Doesn't really capture the imagination (at least not for me).

2) Poor characterisation. Perhaps this should be 'bland characterisation.' It's a well known fact that a few flaws go a long way, and for me the Ultramarines a just a little bit too perfect. Take Marneus Calgar. He's defined as a tactcial genius and stalwart defender of the Imperium. That's it. You could replace him with a robot and it would make little difference. A chapter like the Dark Angels seems much more compelling, as the themes of shame and redemption make them more characterful, and even a teensy bit relatable.

Also, it is annoying the way Ultras were pushed by Mat Ward in the latest codex. I have the appropriate WD issue to hand, and in it he literally says all the other chapters wish they were the Ultramarines. If you play, say, Salamanders of Imperial Fists that's bound to piss you off.

[Archon]

I don´t like them. I like that they keep a own realm, I accept that they are the imbodiment of space marines (marines exemplar, but i fear thats another sub chapter). I like the color too. But I still don´t like them.

That is mainly because i ve read "Dead Sky, Black Sun", "The Nightbringer", "Chapters Due" and (still reading but it is oh so simple stuff) "Fall of Damons". I realy dislike the Name "Sicarius" when I read this name, I know there is totaly no suprise in the story, the will made it, he will be famous and have only a scar or too ... thats not fun to read.

And: I have seen them far to often on covers, in codecies, in rulebooks, on the gw page etc. pp.... but i have to admit, i stilll like to see a very good painted UM Army,even better if it contains the father of the tactical squad: Sgt. w/BP&CCW, Flamer, Launcher :cool:

But in general I don´t like any marine chapter - but I like the Chaos Space Marine Legions:D

[DrLove42]

I agree and i think not being the poster boys of an edition will work in their favour. Let them cool off for a bit.

[Sainhann]

I must prefer that the Cover of 6th Edition calls out the only Space Marine Chapter (I.E. the 1st)

Dark Angels

Cold Hearted buggers who have their own agenda.

What is not to like. They are not the goody shoes Ultra Marines who I dislike.

[keithsilva]

I am a Ultramarine fan, I have a good looking Ultramarine army. I love there fluff, the onyl thing i hate is the way GW makes them seem to perfect in which case they are not if you read there fluff. I mean they have deviated from the Codex Astartes, for exsample Tyranid Hunters.

I just wish GW wouldnt have taken out Tyranid Hunter out of the codex they were fun to play.

[Wildeybeast]

I tend to agree with you on your point about aesthetics, I really love the Greco-Roman theme. I don't hate Ultramarines the way some people seem to, but I suppose I find them a little dull. I attribute this to two things:

1) Generic-ness. The Ultras are pretty much the base, benchmark SMs, so all the other chapters tend to seem interesting by comparison. In particular, the fact the are so diligent about the Codex Astartes; a little deviation tends to add character. When you hear about, Iron Hands, that they are focused on enhancing themselves with cybernetics and using heavy vehicles that instantly creates a kind of feel and character. With Ultras it's 'they adapt to suit the situation.' Doesn't really capture the imagination (at least not for me).

2) Poor characterisation. Perhaps this should be 'bland characterisation.' It's a well known fact that a few flaws go a long way, and for me the Ultramarines a just a little bit too perfect. Take Marneus Calgar. He's defined as a tactcial genius and stalwart defender of the Imperium. That's it. You could replace him with a robot and it would make little difference. A chapter like the Dark Angels seems much more compelling, as the themes of shame and redemption make them more characterful, and even a teensy bit relatable.

Also, it is annoying the way Ultras were pushed by Mat Ward in the latest codex. I have the appropriate WD issue to hand, and in it he literally says all the other chapters wish they were the Ultramarines. If you play, say, Salamanders of Imperial Fists that's bound to piss you off.

Agree with this entirely. Everyone knows Raven Guard are the best!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Wildeybeast wins, screw the Ultramarines. VICTORUS AUT MORTIS.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I more indifferent to them really, I never really understood the scathing hatred they got, but never qute got the love either.

I guess basicly, I think like any other army - if they are done right or have the right amount of creativity put into them - they can be pretty good, but overall prefer custom made chapters/craftworlds/dynasties ect. I think the best ultramarine army I ever saw was a pre-heresy one on warseer. Modelwise, I do like the retinue figures in the Marneus Calgar set.

[Anggul]

I think the reason I like the Ultramarines is because they're clean, uniform and exemplary. We see so many Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Salamanders and other 'characterful' chapters, that it's actually the uniform, clean and militarised armies which start to look 'unique'. I think it's the same thing that makes Tau appeal to people.

[Wildeybeast]

I more indifferent to them really, I never really understood the scathing hatred they got, but never qute got the love either.


I think the hatred comes from all the Marines players who have to use Codex Astartes but don't play Ultramarines. Ward's fluff basically tell players of proud chapters like Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Imperial Fists, White Scars & Crimson Fists, not to mention all the custom chapters that people have lovingly made that their chapters are entirely subservient and inferior to the Ultramarines and that all these other chapters basically have wet dreams about being the Ultramarines. This made a lot of marine players unsurprisingly angry.

[Cursed13]

Raven Guard are simply too awesome to get any press. We strike from the shadows, not for glory or accolades, but out of duty, out of the knowledge that we were made to protect Mankind from the horrors of the galaxy! Vinctorus aut mortis!

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Don't hate 'em, don't like 'em. They're designed to be the baseline Marines, which is good for introducing new players, but also makes most other Chapters seem more interesting :P I feel like some of the fluff tries to overcompensate for this and has them tiptoeing the Mary Sue line (Calgar has God of War? Khorne has something to say about that :P)

I'd like to see Severus Agemman (1st Company Captain) expanded, maybe made into an SC. The mite of fluff we have on him only mentions potential jealousy of Sicarius - Agemman could be expanded into an interesting flawed hero, feeling shortchanged but also tormented by the nagging feeling the Sicarius is truly the better commander. His special rules could emphasize jumping into the fray (gotta beat Sicarius too it) and emphasize Veterans and Termies over other units (he's kinda elitist).

Meanwhile Sicarius is largely "He'd be arrogant, but he's too awesome, he'd be reckless, but he's just a fast-thinking battle genius."

[Archon Charybdis]

I'm not even a Marine player and I find the level Guilliman worship in the 5th ed blue book really obnoxious. To Eldargal's point, I could imagine myself liking a greco-roman themed SM chapter, but not when the rest of their fluff essentially boils down to "They're just so super awesome and cool and their tactics are so amazing that they perform astounding tactical maneuvers like... uhm... using the Codex! And punching Avatars! Everyone else is jez super jelly!" Amongst a category of armies that already get Mary Sue'd to hell, they're Sueiest, and they really don't have any well-defined or engaging character traits to even make them relatable.

edit: I doubled doubled a word.

[eldargal]

The Avatar punching was silly, but the Ultramarines were around a lot longer than 5th edition. I can see why a lot of Marine players would be cranky with it though, I assume that Ward was trying to depict the Ultramarines as the exemplars of what it means to be a Space Marine, without the flaws and gimmicks of other chapters. But he went a bit over the top with it.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

My Storm Wardens don't really give a damn about anyone bar themselves. :p
Very aloof chapter, suppose that's right, what with them being Celtic/Gaelic and all.

[Psychosplodge]

I used to punch avatars, till I took a witchblade to the chest...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

This guy smacks them with GIANT MACE.


http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/DefaultBL/xlarge/aurelian.jpg

[eldargal]

You mean:

I used to be an Avatar like you, until I took a Calgar to the knee.

I used to punch avatars, till I took a witchblade to the chest...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Marneus just wants a hug.
Just like Tyberos.

[pauljc]

If I were to do Ultramarines, I would love to model and paint them in the style of the 3D counterparts in Space Marine. Like, master level painting, all the battle damage, plus all that high detail golden armour embelishments. Alas, there are too few models with that amount of extra detail.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You can't mess with a guy with armour this fabulous.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110816170044/es.warhammer40k/images/1/19/250px-Ultramarine_Honour_Guard.jpg

[Learn2Eel]

They aren't that interesting to me.
The two main reasons that they are often disliked probably revolve around their poster-boy status and bland background. The Salamanders, for example, are quite different to the Ultramarines and are more tasteful. They believe in protecting humanity as opposed to what can probably be boiled down to just killing everything without mercy and viewing humans as both inferior and expendable. It's like how Tu'shan (?) executed another space marine because of the tactics they used which involved the loss of many civilians. The Salamanders are heroic and noble, moreso than most other chapters. Their affinity for fire-based weapons is a unique trait that really characterizes them, as opposed to the generic image of the Ultramarines.

I don't hate Ultramarines or anything, but I'd much rather have an army of Salamanders, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Dark Angels (and not because of different codices!), Blood Ravens and so on. Those armies, to me, have traits that set them apart from the others. It is in print that the Ultramarines are the chapter that most others mimic, i.e. they aren't really all that unique.

[Psychosplodge]

You mean:

I used to be an Avatar like you, until I took a Calgar to the knee.

Lol, no theres a single bloke somewhere that says something about a sword to the chest


TDA :p

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't hate Ultramarines or anything, but I'd much rather have an army of Salamanders, Blood Angels, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Dark Angels (and not because of different codices!), Blood Ravens and so on. Those armies, to me, have traits that set them apart from the others. It is in print that the Ultramarines are the chapter that most others mimic, i.e. they aren't really all that unique.

Do not agree.
The Grey Knights are far more bland than the Ultramarines, their armour isn't even coloured.
The Ultramarines are the most Roman of any Chapter, and pretty much embody everything about the Romans. After all, the Romans were Tactical Genii, and know how to conquer every other country after seeing their tactics and strategies. (IT'S HOW THEY CONQUERED THE WORLD)

The Ultramarines are like Batman, there's nothing special about them, but they can beat all other opponents through their tactics.

The Raven Guard are best (in my opinion), but the Ultramarines are cool beans.

[Anggul]

You mean:

I used to be an Avatar like you, until I took a everything in 40k ever to the knee.

Fixed that for you.






...:(

[UltramarineFan]

See username..

[Psychosplodge]

See username..
Big howling gryffins fan then?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Big howling gryffins fan then?

To be fair, the Howling Griffons are boss.

[Psychosplodge]

But they look better with a Y.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

But that's not their bloody Chapter name is it? :p

I like the Genesis, they are a pretty cool Chapter, and the first Chapter ever made.
Plus, they're Ultramarines. :D

[Psychosplodge]

But that's not their bloody Chapter name is it? :p

I like the Genesis, they are a pretty cool Chapter, and the first Chapter ever made.
Plus, they're Ultramarines. :D
But there could be a Howling Gryffons chapter, and the chapter's colours positioning is inverted. Kind of like the Emperor's Pointy Sticks and the Pointy Sticks of the Emperor chapters...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

*sigh*

[Psychosplodge]

*sigh*
I know the demise of TSOALR was a truly sad day in 40k related stuff...

[Learn2Eel]

Do not agree.
The Grey Knights are far more bland than the Ultramarines, their armour isn't even coloured.
The Ultramarines are the most Roman of any Chapter, and pretty much embody everything about the Romans. After all, the Romans were Tactical Genii, and know how to conquer every other country after seeing their tactics and strategies. (IT'S HOW THEY CONQUERED THE WORLD)

The Ultramarines are like Batman, there's nothing special about them, but they can beat all other opponents through their tactics.

The Raven Guard are best (in my opinion), but the Ultramarines are cool beans.

I find an entire chapter of psykers that is an arm of the Inquisition to be more interesting, personally. Especially considering that apparently most Grey Knights would rather die than become Dreadnoughts because they have witnessed too many horrors. Also, Ultramarines don't have Dreadknights :p
As far as the Roman inspiration goes, I'm kinda meh on that. It'd then be a case of which parallels you enjoy more really.

As far as Batman goes, that depends on what your definition of 'special' is. Batman is physically superior to most of his opponents, he doesn't just rely on his intelligence and adaptability. I'd say he's pretty special because he's the best crime detective in his world, has some very notable perceived mental issues and also understands the criminal mind innately. He's somewhat of an antithesis to the common depiction of a 'hero', which is pretty unique in my books.

My favourites are and always will be the Thousand Sons, but I like the fluff of the Salamanders the most.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

As far as Batman goes, that depends on what your definition of 'special' is. Batman is physically superior to most of his opponents, he doesn't just rely on his intelligence and adaptability. I'd say he's pretty special because he's the best crime detective in his world, has some very notable perceived mental issues and also understands the criminal mind innately. He's somewhat of an antithesis to the common depiction of a 'hero', which is pretty unique in my books.

I'm talking in regards to other superheroes, he doesn't possess anything fancy except for his knowledge. Batman knows how to take out every superhero in DC Comics. (Kryptonite Gauntlets for Superman, Yellow Suit for Green Lantern, etc etc.)

I agree on the Thousand Sons as the best Legion. :D

[Psychosplodge]

I remember when salamanders were still white, when did they get this obsidian skin with the red eyes thing going on?

[Learn2Eel]

I'm talking in regards to other superheroes, he doesn't possess anything fancy except for his knowledge. Batman knows how to take out every superhero in DC Comics. (Kryptonite Gauntlets for Superman, Yellow Suit for Green Lantern, etc etc.)

I agree on the Thousand Sons as the best Legion. :D

Oh I see your point now :D Then yeah you are right on that point.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh I see your point now :D Then yeah you are right on that point.

Awesome!
I probably didn't elaborate enough. :p


It's quite obvious who my favourite Chapter are, I don't stop going on about them.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Obviously I like the Ultramarines very much, and have over 3,000 painted points of the "pansy bloo blokes". :) The only thing I'm not so keen on is honestly the name. These are my BEST-MARINES. They hail from BESTMAR. Some of the criticisms people come up with are silly, and the hate is often totally ridiculous.

(Especially when people blame Mat Ward for it - you know, the sorts of people who don't remember when all Space Marines were drawn from Codex: Ultramarines).

Ultrase are great - the colour scheme, the aesthetic, their stoic, selfless devotion to duty for the good of humanity, their history as the force which held it all together in humanity's darkest hour and their continued presence as one of the most illustrious and successful of all Space Marine forces, without dark secrets or hidden agendas... yeah, I wasn't going to choose another chapter.

Although it was a close thing - I love the Imperial Fists (but painting yellow used to be a pain in the neck) and as I like the selfless, heroic, defenders-of-humanity chapters best, I'm also fond of the Salamanders.

[MarneusCalgar]

Soon we will conquer the Galaxy...

First, this forum;
Later, Terra, and then...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It's clear what I must do....... I must stand and defend the forum against the onslaught of.... THE SMURFS! *grabs Bolter*

[Rissan4ever]

I love the Ultramarines, just like Eldargal. Just look at the other major chapters, and you can see why.

Dark Angels - Moody and untrustworthy. These guys would abandon an entire warzone because of the rumor of ONE Fallen. They're unreliable. Plus, what's with the dresses?

Space Wolves - Solid fighters, but their obsession with personal glory makes them less likely to obey orders and see the big picture of a campaign. Oh yeah, and they're a bunch of hairy mutants.

Blood Angels - These guys are great... if you don't mind the fact that they occasionally become HOWLING MADMEN!

Black Templars - These guys are actually ok. Their lack of a homeworld makes it hard for the Inquisition to keep tabs on their numbers, which is kinda fishy. But other than that, they're solid soldiers.

Grey Knights - What are you talking about? There is no such chapter. It's a myth.

Basically, I like the Ultramarines because they're solid, reliable soldiers. They don't over-focus on any one aspect of warfare, which makes them very tactically flexible. They also seem to have a pretty low Crazy Factor, so they're good allies to have by your side. If I had my pick of Space Marine chapters to fight alongside my Guardsmen, I'd choose the boys from Ultramar every time.

[UltramarineFan]

I also like others like Raven Guard but I agree with all the points Eldargal made and for me that's what makes ultras awesome. I think they get hate because they're the posterboy for GW (to the point I had to point out to some guys at the FLGS that ultramarines have in fact never been on the cover of a rulebook when they said they were happy it was DA rather than ultras).

I especially love the honour guard models and tyrannic war veterans. Not so much calgar in terminator armour though, think I'd rather they update the power armour model.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

If I'm honest... Of all Marines chapters, I only really like Salamanders and Dark Angels. There's others which are interesting, but the other major Codex armies really don't do it for me. As for Ultramarines, they don't deserve anywhere near as much hate, but they don't deserve all the praise, either.

[Wildeybeast]

Ooooh! I've just remembered why Ultramarines completely suck, are totally rubbish and why no one should ever like or play them.




They're French.

[Rissan4ever]

Ooooh! I've just remembered why Ultramarines completely suck, are totally rubbish and why no one should ever like or play them.




They're French.

Ok, I give up. In what manner are they French?

[Wildeybeast]

The name Roboute Gulliman doesn't sound slightly French to you? Also, one of the BL audio books had them speaking with French accents (I forget which).

[Anggul]

Italian I could understand for obvious reasons, but not French. Someone on the casting team got the wrong part of Europe. :p

I also have to take a liking to them because my first and most loved army is Tyranids.

Tyrannic war veterans are awesome.

[Deadlift]

Salamanders for me, I really enjoy their fluff and I like painting green.

Oh and Iron Hands are really cool. They really should have their own codex.

I love the dying chapter stuff for flesh terrors, BJorn the fell handed has to be my favourite dreadnought, Grey Knights with their emperors last gift thing going on, Dark Angels and the gothic, secrets and watchers mystic hook.

Oh who am I kidding, if it's in power armour I love it.

[Kawauso]

Salamanders for me, I really enjoy their fluff and I like painting green.

Oh and Iron Hands are really cool. They really should have their own codex.

I love the dying chapter stuff for flesh terrors, BJorn the fell handed has to be my favourite dreadnought, Grey Knights with their emperors last gift thing going on, Dark Angels and the gothic, secrets and watchers mystic hook.

Oh who am I kidding, if it's in power armour I love it.

This.

If there's a marine chapter/legion, odds are I've thought of building an army around it.
Thankfully I've never -acted- on that impulse. But for some reason the allure of power armour is hard for me to resist.

I think all the marine variants are cool in their own way. Ultras included.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm trying to decide on a striking Chapter to do...... Blue and Silver is boring me.

[Warp]

The name Roboute Gulliman doesn't sound slightly French to you? Also, one of the BL audio books had them speaking with French accents (I forget which).

Wasn't that in one of the Garro audiobooks?

I'm seriously considering starting an Ultramarines army. Simply because they are a solid military unit. There are gimmicks all over the place in 40K, the Ultras represent - TO ME - a more "regular" elite military unit, and to me that's a good thing.

[Wildeybeast]

Wasn't that in one of the Garro audiobooks?

I'm seriously considering starting an Ultramarines army. Simply because they are a solid military unit. There are gimmicks all over the place in 40K, the Ultras represent - TO ME - a more "regular" elite military unit, and to me that's a good thing.

Quite possibly, Garro does meet up with them.

[The Sovereign]

While they'll never supplant my love for my Space Wolves, I must admit I do like the Ultramarines for one simple reason: Scout Sergeant Telion. What a cool model.

Calgar's model is super epic too.

[Rissan4ever]

While they'll never supplant my love for my Space Wolves, I must admit I do like the Ultramarines for one simple reason: Scout Sergeant Telion. What a cool model.

Calgar's model is super epic too.

Meh. Telion's cool, but Calgar is way overdone. Too many oversized eagles and dangly bits. I prefer Pedro Kantor.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I like any vanilla marines, ultra included. To me it is kind of paradoxical that the rarest types marines according to the fluff (Girr-ay Knights) are the most common in the gaming clubs. The Batman analogy is great. The Ultramarines get it done without a bunch of flair and bizarre-ness.

But my favorite thing about the Sons of Gulliman is their title. I love that they're named after an artist's color.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yey! I made a good analogy!

[Anggul]

Well they certainly still have FLAIR. They're Romans good sirs, and Romans like to make things look sexy. And sexy they do indeed look, check out those Honour Guard. Those gentlemens are finely dressed.

Also blue armour with yellow and gold.


But yes, with so many 'quirky and interesting' chapters, it's nice to have one that just does what they're supposed to do for once.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I admit, I really like painting these guys.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/7/72/Guardians_of_Celeres_marine.jpg

[Black1705f]

Long time lurker, fist time poster

I can honestly say that I've been painting and playing Ultramarines before Ultramarines were cool or uncool depending on how you feel. Back then (Rogue Trader) all Marine Chapters were pretty much the same except for the color of their armor. I chose Ultramarines for a couple simple reasons. I like the color blue and painting a stylized "U" on a shoulder pad was a lot easier than most other chapter symbols. Besides that you add a white stripe to the helmet and if you were really ambitious you'd paint a little symbol on the shoulder pad that would indicate their weapon specialization.

Years later the fluff has morphed the Ultramarines into what they are today. I'm not really a big fan of the holier-than-thou current Ultramarines. I prefer the Blue and yellow second company with red bolters over the darker more gothic dark blue and gold with black bolter current incarnation. Why does the second company get to go from a prismatic color yellow to a shiny metallic gold one? I've never seen veterans painted up with silver instead of white. You hardly ever see 3rd through 5th company Ultramarines. I've never seen red, green or black done in metallic colors. It would be fair to say that the 2nd company is the poster children for poster children.

On a side note, I've always wondered why they act like each suit of power armor is such a revered heirloom passed on from generation to generation. With the way I make saves I'd deplete the chapter armory in no time. Not to mention Apothecaries don't seem to have any issues with these prized artifacts when they start punching holes in them to harvest organs. Maybe I'm underestimating the ability to repair such high tech armor in the far future.

I digress...I prefer to keep my Ultramarines humble, spartan and actually ready to get dirty in the game of war. I appreciate the attention that Ultramarines have gotten over the years, but I'd be more appreciative of some actual uniqueness in game terms and not over the top fluff. Even the one thing we did have, Tyranid Hunters, has been taken from us.