Abby and Tally

[Nightspawn]

So I have a Chaos/Daemon list I am working on. In it I have Aboddon and Epidemus. The question is, do the wounds that Abby make go toward the tally for nurgle? He does have the benefits from all 4 parts of chaos but doesn't spell it out in print if he is considered a follower of nurgle.

"...and now bears a unique Mark that combines all of the gifts" Does this mean he just has the gifts and that's it? The page goes on adding how the power of tzeench effects his inv but doesn't clear up any of the other marks.

What do you think?

[Lerra]

He doesn't have a literal Mark of Nurgle, but he does have a quasi-MoT, and the benefits of MoN (+1 T). Plus, the fluff is that he's definitely "blessed" with Nurgle's power. So I'd say yes, but you could probably argue it either way. Hopefully the new dex clears it up.

[Anggul]

He doesn't technically have the Mark of Nurgle, but they should have a new codex soon, so we'll see what they decide when it happens.

[DrLove42]

As stated, new codex soon

But in the mean time i'd say Abby doesn't have a physical Mark of Nurgle (although he has the "blessing" of all 4) so he doesn't count

[Nightspawn]

So until the new codex drops, what makes you say that he doesn't get the "Mark"?

Page 46 Chaos codex--- "Over the millenia Abaddon has melded the Marks of Chaos". Doesn't that mean that they are all combined together and just called "Mark of Ascendant" rather than list them all? That makes more sence than saying he doesn't have them and only gets the buffs from each of them.

[Learn2Eel]

So until the new codex drops, what makes you say that he doesn't get the "Mark"?

Page 46 Chaos codex--- "Over the millenia Abaddon has melded the Marks of Chaos". Doesn't that mean that they are all combined together and just called "Mark of Ascendant" rather than list them all? That makes more sence than saying he doesn't have them and only gets the buffs from each of them.

I'm inclined to say Abaddon doesn't get the benefits of the Tally.
The Tally specifically states units with the Mark of Nurgle.
Abaddon has the Mark of Chaos Ascendant.
Whilst Abby's mark combines the effects of other marks, he is not actually listed as having the Mark of Nurgle.
At the same time though, it would make sense for him to benefit from the Tally as he is technically marked by Nurgle.

[Lerra]

Keep in mind that a model doesn't need to have a Mark of Nurgle to benefit from Epidemius. It must be a "follower of Nurgle". For example, Plaguebearers don't have a MoN but they are followers of Nurgle so they benefit. If the rule required a model to have a Mark of Nurgle, I'd say Abbadon isn't included, but because it requires that he is a more generic "follower of Nurgle" I'd say it does work.

[Anggul]

Keep in mind that a model doesn't need to have a Mark of Nurgle to benefit from Epidemius. It must be a "follower of Nurgle". For example, Plaguebearers don't have a MoN but they are followers of Nurgle so they benefit. If the rule required a model to have a Mark of Nurgle, I'd say Abbadon isn't included, but because it requires that he is a more generic "follower of Nurgle" I'd say it does work.

No, it says: 'followers of Nurgle (i.e. any Daemon of Nurgle, or model with the Mark of Nurgle'. Abaddon has a 'Mark of Chaos Ascendant', which sadly isn't a 'Mark of Nurgle'.

[Nachodragon]

Even though the Fluff makes sense, always use what the rules state. Otherwise, this game would get wonky real fast.

Abbadon is not affected by Epi right now.. we shall see in new book though. Maybe he gets all four marks instead of a combined mark...

[Learn2Eel]

No, it says: 'followers of Nurgle (i.e. any Daemon of Nurgle, or model with the Mark of Nurgle'. Abaddon has a 'Mark of Chaos Ascendant', which sadly isn't a 'Mark of Nurgle'.

This. Abaddon doesn't have the Mark of Nurgle in his wargear/special rules, ergo he is not affected even though the fluff and nature of his own Mark would make it seem he should be.

[Thanatos_elNyx]

I would play that he does since we know GW doesn't care about RAW.
Just see the "What counts as a Daemon" ruling in the GK FAQ.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Use The Most Important Rule!

Talk with your adversary. If they think it's fine, go for it.

Just don't rely on it.

[Nightspawn]

No, it says: 'followers of Nurgle (i.e. any Daemon of Nurgle, or model with the Mark of Nurgle'. Abaddon has a 'Mark of Chaos Ascendant', which sadly isn't a 'Mark of Nurgle'.

'Mark of Chaos Ascendant' melds all the marks together. That would give all the marks wouldn't it?

I can see why people wouldn't want Abby to have the mark. It would make that tag team very dangerous.

[Nachodragon]

Trying to think of a good metaphor but can't find good real life example right now.

BUT, if thing X has all properties of thing Y but thing Y does not have all properties of X. Just because thing X has all the properties of thing Y does not make it a thing Y. In this instance, thing X has the properties of thing Y, thing Z, and thing ZZ and thing ZZZ (hmm, should have started with A).

[Learn2Eel]

'Mark of Chaos Ascendant' melds all the marks together. That would give all the marks wouldn't it?

I can see why people wouldn't want Abby to have the mark. It would make that tag team very dangerous.

The problem is that he isn't actually listed as having 'the Mark of Nurgle'. He's listed as having 'the Mark of Chaos Ascendant', which is different. It combines the effects, but he doesn't actually have the Mark of Nurgle in his rules. The Mark of Chaos Ascendant gives him the benefits of all the marks, but it doesn't mean he actually has them listed. Difficult to explain but typically with things like this it has to be specifically mentioned in a unit's profile, and Abaddon has a separate one.

I'm not too opposed to it working to be honest, it would make sense from a fluff perspective. It's just that as a RAW thing I'm inclined to say no.

[Learn2Eel]

I would play that he does since we know GW doesn't care about RAW.
Just see the "What counts as a Daemon" ruling in the GK FAQ.

I love that part. It makes me wonder why Raptors, Defilers and daemonically possessed vehicles don't all have 5+ invulnerable saves then.
Though, it's kind of funny that a Defiler is actually a Daemon now per the rulebook (I'm pretty sure), so I assume it has an invulnerable save as well. People in my local area don't embrace the idea particularly though; I was curious actually, does the Defiler get an invulnerable save from having the Daemon special rule?

[Denzark]

At the moment, Daemonic possessed vehicles don't attract the special rule daemon. However it is likely to get it in the new codex.

Which I hope arrives soon.