When designing Nurgle...

[Denzark]

10 x CSM = 150pts. + Icon of Nurgle = 200pts. For T5, insta kill only on 10.

10 x Plague Marines = 230pts. T5, FNP, can't take T5 away by killing icon bearer. But lose 1pt of initiative. Also Fearless.

What is the most cost effective here?

[Dalleron]

Death Guard by. Why? FNP from all but a handful of things in the game. Blight grenades are pretty handy as well. Fearless so they won't runaway ever. They are just an all around better choice. I believe they also get the extra special weapon with less men in a squad. On that I could be wrong.

[Filthspew]

I actually played Nurgle with plague marines as troops for five years.
My list has changed of course, but the latest was three 8 man units at 1750pts, champ with fist, melta and famers, in rhinos.

And just now I went to csm with sixth. I run them lean, 10 man, 2 melta or 2 plasma, rhino.
That makes room for 50 power armor at 1750pts (msu armies cry for mommy :cool:).

What I have been struggling with, also long before sixth, is the low unit count and the low model count.

Its nice to be close to immortal, but it doesnt kill the other guys. I was depending on assault to do the damage, because of the low model count, rapid fire didnt do it.

Unless all three units of plague marines were together, and then objectives became a problem.

Fnp is now less effective against small arms fire, and that is what you take the most of and also what has become a lot more effective and deciding in sixth.

And most importantly, no rhino assaults.

So the conclusion was that I had to get outta the rhino and shoot instead of assault. That means more bolters are needed.

With a lot less ap2 cc weapons, terminators are a more valid option to take some of the roles that Plague marines used to be the rulers of.

Another issue was the champ and fists. A Plague marine champ with fist is freaking 63pts, still one wound.
He can buy you 4 (four!) csm, true grit end everything, and leaves change to spare.
So my three champs translates into 12 csm and 9 pts.

Before, fearless and fistless was suicidal, now they are not as needed. No wounds from loosing cc, grenades are way better against monsters and vehicles, and vehicles are much more fragile.

And now there are so many ways that specific models can die.

It really depends on what style of play you fancy, but with the emphasis on the short to medium fire fight, the need for volume of fire has increased. Unless you have the numbers to loose the fire fight and take revenge in assault (e.g. Nds, orks, ig).

The csm with banner could be worth it if they are big units, I would say maxed out. That means footslogging and expensive as well as low unit count. But not many would want to assault them!

Otherwise, go plague marines but accept that you have to spend a third of your pts on troops.

[Denzark]

Filthspew some good thoughts.

however at 1500 (tournament) I would need to spend more than 1/3 on troops - 500pts would poribably get me nowhere!

[Filthspew]

Sorry, I ment spend two thirds of your pts on troops and leaving one third :)

Im glad to help and would like other csm players to give me their analysis of the situation.

It would be great if you posted a list, then we can work from there.

[Millenium_King]

Plague Marines. Plague Marines. Plague Marines.

Plague Marines with Plasma is insane under the new rules. Yeah, they are more expensive, but they are much much more worth it than the standard guys.

[Anggul]

I would always go Plague Marines. They have all the same option (apart from Heavy Weapons) and are just better for their points. The only Marks I would use for Chaos Marines are Slaanesh (because it's the +1 initiative we want, Noise Marines are painfully over-priced), and Chaos Glory for a generic Marine squad.

[Filthspew]

I would always go Plague Marines. They have all the same option (apart from Heavy Weapons) and are just better for their points.

I disagree.

They are better and more expensive, but that is not the same as better for their points.

The 10 marines to fill a rhino is 80 points less than 10 plague marines.
So you could have two pm squads or two csm and a defiler + 10 points.
Or three squads of csm and + 10 points.
That is not just allways and in every situation a better choice.

Plague marines do not have the same tactical options as csm.
The most obvious follow up example:
Two squads of pm can be in two locations.
Three squads of csm can be in three locations.

Plague marines are more durable but have the same damage output as csm.
Two rhinofulls of pm is 20 bolters and 60 cc attacks.
Three rhinofulls of csm is 30 bolters and 90 attacks.

The main thing to remember is that staying alive does not take away the enemy ability to kill you.
Thus pm are more dependent on support unit to do damage.
Otherwise, the risk is that the better staying power is made up for by the lack of decrease in enemy damage done to you.


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