Could GW produce a Titan?

[Nemesis]

I've been thinking about this one very seriously. Given the huge improvement and capability of GW's latest plastic models, why couldn't they?

To those who say 'it would be to big', and other excuses for inaction, I refer you to the 'normal' modelling world.

I myself have an extensive stash of kits--aircraft, armour and naval. The largest two I have are Trumpeters 'Admiral Kusnetzov' and their 'USS Nimitz' aircraft carriers. The Nimitz is almost 4 feet long with well over 1000 parts. So--bang goes the size argument.

Anyway, they produced Witchfate Tor for Fantasy and that is bigger than a Warhound would be.

I think they could do it quite easily, yes the price would be high but a LOT lower than Forge Worlds and I do think that it would put Titans out into the 'real' world where ordinary folks without bottomless pockets could afford them.

Thoughts?:)

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

They seem to have gone off "converting" FW models into plastic - for instance, the upcoming plastic Eldar flyer apparently isn't the established Nightwing, but something new. Financially, it makes sense - rather than decommissioning a popular resin kit to make a plastic version, they make a similar, but markedly different, plastic kit to hype up. Still sells for the same reasons as the resin kit (Eldar designs applied to Fliers looks awesome!) but without cutting out the resin kit.

My guess would be that if they made a plastic Titan it would be a new type of Scout Titan, or at least a severely different variant of the Warhound. Maybe something with a Titan Close Combat Weapon.

But yeah, they're definitely capable of it. Wouldn't be surprised if something similar pops up if/when they release "Apocalypse for 6th ed."

[Anggul]

Easily, but then they wouldn't be ripping us off quite as much any more, so they won't.

[Wildeybeast]

I don't understand. They already produce several titans (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Titans). What else exactly are you expecting them to do? If you mean multipart plastic kits available through standard GW and with rules for 40k games, then yeah, they probably could do them, but given the prohibitive cost I see no way for them to be financially viable.

[wittdooley]

I've been thinking about this one very seriously. Given the huge improvement and capability of GW's latest plastic models, why couldn't they?

To those who say 'it would be to big', and other excuses for inaction, I refer you to the 'normal' modelling world.

I myself have an extensive stash of kits--aircraft, armour and naval. The largest two I have are Trumpeters 'Admiral Kusnetzov' and their 'USS Nimitz' aircraft carriers. The Nimitz is almost 4 feet long with well over 1000 parts. So--bang goes the size argument.

Anyway, they produced Witchfate Tor for Fantasy and that is bigger than a Warhound would be.

I think they could do it quite easily, yes the price would be high but a LOT lower than Forge Worlds and I do think that it would put Titans out into the 'real' world where ordinary folks without bottomless pockets could afford them.

Thoughts?:)

Sure they could. But why would they?

We'll see a plastic thunderhawk before we see a plastic Titan. Especially now that FW is doing Horus books.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Titans are just a ridiculous idea in 40K. Ridiculous. Apocalypse battles, maybe, but otherwise the whole idea of them is patently stupid. Where's the tactics or strategy? It's just "put down one instant death pie plate after another". Infantry fighting titans is pants-on-head farcical.

Now, titan-on-titan action is awesome. But you need a bunch of them. I keep hoping that one day they'll do a revised Adeptus Titanicus mystery box; that would be money (certainly more so than the asinine misstep that was Dread Fleet). In Epic scale, titan legions both look awesome, provide spectacle, but also (and this is key) actually allow for strategy with depth. Twelve Warlord titans on a battlefield is a sight to behold in Epic.

But in 40K? I genuinely don't see the appeal at all.

[Dalleron]

Is the Ork Stompa not a "Titan"? GW produces that. But isn't the question ultimately moot as some parent company owns both entities? If not exactly that way, I'm sure you get the point.

[Charistoph]

Just so everyone is clear: GW is the parent company of both Forgeworld and Citadel.

Citadel builds the plastic, pewter, and finecast side of the models that you find in normal Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K. It should be known that Citadel has 3 Super-Heavies available, one of which is a Titan.

Forgeworld provides new resin models, rules, and expansions to Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K, the most notable of which are the Apcalypse-Only Super-Heavy/Titans/Bio-Titans.

So to answer the Orignal Post's question literally: They always have.

To answer the spirit of it (i.e. Could Citadel release plastic Titan models): Yes, they have. They probably will not build many more unless they come up with their own unique model to bring in to the game or a 40K Expansion/Edition introduces such Super-Heavy models into the game on their own (which will be when they are ready to build them, much like the Flyers).

Remember, for every model that gets converted from resin to plastic, GW is basically just shafting themselves.

[wittdooley]

The stompa is not a titan.

A Gargant is the Ork version of a Titan.

That is all.

[Deadlift]

Hobbists produce titans from loo rolls and plasticard, I am sure GW could go one better :D
But the question is
Could GW produce a Titan ?
In my mind they already do though FW, as they are one and the same ?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The guys at Brum store saw what they thought was a plastic Warhound in a WD a couple of months back, it was in one of the pictures about Warhammer World.

Seeing the picture I would agree.

Cannot for the life of me remember which WD it was though.

[eldargal]

Could they? Yes.
Do they? Yes.

Just not in plastic. FW is a part of GW.

There have been rumours of smaller titans being converted to plastic eventually, specifically the warhounds and revenants. I wouldn't get hopes up but I wouldn't say it was impossible either.

[Psychosplodge]

Should they? Probably not...

[eldargal]

It would depend if they feel that they would sell enough plastic Warhounds at a much reduced price than the FW version to make it worthwhile.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'd quite like a Warhound to be fair.

It'd certainly be useful.

[Psychosplodge]

I just meant in game terms, whoever said it belongs in epic is spot on,

Now as a show piece, yeah amazing, who wouldn't want something on their shelf like it?

[eldargal]

But when you consider that a plastic Warhound might retail for £100 while the resin is £245 AND it would have considerable tooling costs given the number of sprues required GW would have to be sure of selling an awful lot to justify it.

[eldargal]

Epic is basically dead though, while a special edition of Adeptus Titanicus would be wonderful there will still be demand for them on the 40k tabletop. FW meets it now, the question of whether or not they should be allowed on the tabletop is long past. By making a plastic kit it isn't like GW would be forcing them into regular games of 40k, the Stmpa and Baneblade releases have shown that.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I have a Baneblade for my Sacris PDF.
I'm not saying that it's justifiable in plastic, I'm just saying that I want a Warhound. :p

Epic isn't dead in Shrewsbury, I have an Eldar army for it. :D
FULL O' TITANS.

[Psychosplodge]

Epic's only dead cause they put it down, I'm sure they could resurrect, just gotta make the right die rolls...

[olberon]

they most certainly could produce one or multi kits . Problem is mainly the RRP .... the thing would cost around 200 euro (dont pin me on this!) and to be fair quite a lot of hobbists dont have that kind of money to spend on just one kit (i would but thats another story)

Its funny reading the last few sentences back: people would buy 2 battle forces (roughly the same price) with a lot of models in it rather then a 1 model kit. damn marketing ..............

and on the subject plastic kits - i know your are reading this GW watchdogs- Go fetch me a plastic thunderhawk!!

[eldargal]

It's dead because at its height it sold poorly.:) One of the ex-senior GW chaps on Warseer mentioned it only consisting of 2-5% of GW sales at its peak.

Personally I always felt that GWs modelling skills were wasted on 6mm scale models, bar titans.

[Psychosplodge]

I thought that's cause it was specialist? I mean if all the specialist games sold 2-5% that's still a reasonable amount, essentially if it's profitable, why not make it?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It's a shame, I love playing Specialist Games... :(

[eldargal]

Low return on investment, so the best we can hope for is the current arrangement where you can at least still buy the models and the rules are available for download (or puchase).

I thought that's cause it was specialist? I mean if all the specialist games sold 2-5% that's still a reasonable amount, essentially if it's profitable, why not make it?

[Psychosplodge]

I suppose, I was looking at it more in the idea that it's a different game/ruleset that's still a GW Brand, so I would have thought in their interest rather than someone going to play FoW or Warmachine or whatever else is out there...

[Inquisitor Nelson]

Personally, I think that it's easily possible for Games Workshop to produce a Warhound titan in plastic. Will they do so? Again, I think that they will. They did so with the Baneblade.

Despite the lower selling price of a plastic titan, I think that there are more that enough people out there, me included, who would buy a plastic titan who wouldn't ever realistically consider buying a resin one from Forge World.

While it would cost a lot to make the moulds for a plastic titan, I honestly think Games Workshop would still make one - they can probably sell enough to make back their initial costs, just like with the Stompa and Baneblade.

CN

[Psychosplodge]

You never know, they could be doing one for the Eldar's super heavy(large kit whatever you want call it), which of course mean the Imperium has to have one too...

[Anggul]

People, no-one is suggesting that we have Titans outside of apocalypse. The fact is, they made a plastic Baneblade and Stompa, so they could make plastic Titans, and indeed there is no reason to keep on making them in resin other than a really, really bad excuse to charge us more money.

[eldargal]

Personally I'd expect a Thunderhawk before a Warhound, simply because you can rely on Marine players to spend money on a Marine vehicle. Hell even I'd buy a plastic Thunderhawk for my Astral Kittens and I don't even field them on the tabletop.

[Psychosplodge]

What's an astral kitten look like? Is there a link to one somewhere?

Also that does make sense.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

*dreams of Angry Marine Thunderhawks*

Sorry, what? :p

I would love a Thunderhawk to paint in the colours of Sacris, it would be brilliant.

[eldargal]

Astral Kittens are my female Space Marine chapter, and no, no pictures.:p Blue and white colour scheme.

What's an astral kitten look like? Is there a link to one somewhere?

Also that does make sense.

[Psychosplodge]

SOB with marine shoulders and backpack?

Never seen a blue and white kitten before :p Ultrasmurf descended?

But OT yeah I'd buy a thunderhawk for my marines even though they haven't campaigned since fourth... A titan might look good too...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Of course she hasn't got any pictures! She just insults me if I don't have them. :p

[eldargal]

Nope, regular Marine bodies, female bare heads for officers and whatnot. All very low-key femininity. Yes, Ultramarine successor chapter.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nope, regular Marine bodies, female bare heads for officers and whatnot. All very low-key femininity. Yes, Ultramarine successor chapter.

Proof that she isn't all about Xenos. :p

[eldargal]

Well I have a few non-Xenos armies that I paint up and sometimes make a bit of display terrain for. But I only play Eldar or Dark Eldar (and theoretically Slaanesh daemons).

[Psychosplodge]

Nope, regular Marine bodies, female bare heads for officers and whatnot. All very low-key femininity. Yes, Ultramarine successor chapter.

I thought for a moment we'd found the 2nd or 11th legion then lol

So how can you tell with the helmet on?:rolleyes:

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ah. Intriguing.

As I said, I'd love to destroy your Eldar with my Necrons. :p

[wittdooley]

Personally, I think that it's easily possible for Games Workshop to produce a Warhound titan in plastic. Will they do so? Again, I think that they will. They did so with the Baneblade.

Despite the lower selling price of a plastic titan, I think that there are more that enough people out there, me included, who would buy a plastic titan who wouldn't ever realistically consider buying a resin one from Forge World.

While it would cost a lot to make the moulds for a plastic titan, I honestly think Games Workshop would still make one - they can probably sell enough to make back their initial costs, just like with the Stompa and Baneblade.

CN

I think that, when people make comments like this, that they haven't actually SEEN a Titan in person to understand the scale difference. Creating even a plastic Warhound would take a considerable amount more plastic than a Stompa or Baneblade, with a considerable amount more parts.

But again I ask: Why?

They already produce, and sell, Titans on FW.

[Psychosplodge]

Also thinking about tanks are essentially flat sheets that make a shell, titans require a lot more intricacy...which probably affects cost.

[wittdooley]

Also thinking about tanks are essentially flat sheets that make a shell, titans require a lot more intricacy...which probably affects cost.

Which is also why I don't think a Plastic T-Hawk is out of the question :D The base structure is there in the Storm Raven.... Just extend that girl out some ;)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

GIGGITY!

Saying that Witt, I saw an excellent Thunderhawk conversion the other day, it was made out of Stormravens and Landraiders. :D

[alshrive]

could they make one- YES
should they make one- personally NO.

there is something about Titans! They are something special, a personal treasure, your precious! if GW released one that wasn't forgeworld, every man and his Dog would get one and suddenly my precious is devalued!

[Sisiutl]

Im not sure if I agree with the argument that GW is shafting themselves if they produce Forge World model in plastic. They produced the Baneblade in plastic and sold many more plastic Baneblades than they would have resin ones. Despite the lower price the increase in volume could make up for the difference.

While I have no information on the sales of plastic Baneblades compared to resin Baneblades I think its safe to assume that the plastic kit has sold many more, probably many times more than the resin kit did. Additionally while the fixed costs for creating a plastic model and kit are greater the variable costs of production are much lower for plastic than for resin. The calculation becomes whether the increased volume in sales of a plastic kit makes up for the loss in sales of the resin kit and the cost of producing the plastic molds minus the greater cost of producing a resin model.

I also don't necessarily agree with the "we'll see a plastic Thunderhawk before a plastic titan" argument. While we hardcore adult gamers might want a Thuderhawk more I would expect the younger crowd going into a GW store would want the big robot with huge guns on it arms. Also since they already produce two different kinds of Space Marine aircraft they might not want to cut into Stormtalon and Stromraven sales with a bigger kit.

[wittdooley]

I also don't necessarily agree with the "we'll see a plastic Thunderhawk before a plastic titan" argument. While we hardcore adult gamers might want a Thuderhawk more I would expect the younger crowd going into a GW store would want the big robot with huge guns on it arms. Also since they already produce two different kinds of Space Marine aircraft they might not want to cut into Stormtalon and Stromraven sales with a bigger kit.

I think an important point to note here is that the FW Thunderhawk is nearly $150 more than a Warhound Titan and based on completely anecdotal experience (asking a FW dude at Adpeticon) they sell far less Thunderhawks than they do Warhounds. Further (again from anecdotal experience of helping assemble one) the Thunderhawk moulds are a mess. The plane is not easy to put together and requires a fair amount of clean up to make it ready.

Remember also that when the Baneblade kits launched, they were under the $100 sweet spot for a plastic model. To produce a plastic titan, the kit would probably have to be priced close to $200-$250 dollars. Sure, it's less expensive than the present kit, but I just can't see enough people purchasing a kit that expensive to justify the costs with tooling the injection moulds.

With all of that being said, we have two kits that make me question the limitations GW's injection moulding actually has: the Fortress of Redemption & Skullvane Manse. Fortress of Redemption showed what GW could do with relatively straight lines on a large scale. Skullvane manse upped the ante and includes large rounded pieces (which would be integral to making a Titan). Despite the fact that the plastic is a bit different than standard GW plastic (it's a bit more firm) they have the ability to do large scale moulding like that.

However, the fact still remains that none of us know if the cost would be worth it in terms of increased sales volume. I still dont see them doing a full Warhound or larger.... but Knight Titans.... that may be the winning ticket. They can already do something simillarish (Dread-Carlos) and anyone that bought would would buy more than one because, if you're like me, you'd want a full Lance.

[Nemesis]

Very interesting views, some of which I'll discount as they did not really have much to do with my original question.

There seems to be two, main points here. Cost and would they do it when FW does them. Well, firstly cost---knowing this is GW were talking about here and there pricing policy, (do they have one?),---the USS Nimitz model I mentioned in my 1st post, cost me £92. That's almost 4 feet of ship, I rechecked and it's almost 2,000 parts. Includes a selection of aircraft. Parts shown below. They are sitting on a double bed--

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/plastic_022/DSCF0163.jpg

Now, how would GW compare to that? What height is a Warhound? 12/15 inches or there abouts? Not exactly enormous is it?

Why would they produce a plastic Titan when FW do them in resin? Simple, they would sell a shed load to 40k players AND those who just want a Titan on their shelves. They wouldn't directly replace FW's Titans as they could do them in a different pattern.

No, I'm still convinced they could and should go for it

[MaltonNecromancer]

Consider "Mifune's Last Stand" by MacFarlane Toys:

http://photofile.ru/photo/ikar11/3067405/80450409.jpg

This was a hyper detailed toy released by MacFarlane toys back in 2002 or so. I have one on my fireplace. It is easily as detailed as any GW kit, came pre-assembled, and is the size of a Warhound Titan. Actually, it's a little bigger and sturdier. Also posable (although the waist is an area of vulnerability) and pre-painted. Seriously, all those little pistons in his shoulders work and move.

These things retailed for £30 in the UK (and just $20 in the US!), and according to the business articles I read at the time, were profitable. MacFarlane toys were doing very, very well indeed.

GW will never produce a large-scale kit like this, because well: can you imagine them selling a titan for £30? Yet that's exactly what MacFarlane Toys did. So it's possible, it's very very possible to do physically. We'll just never see it.

If you want one of the toys, evidently Amazon US still has a few.

http://www.amazon.com/McFarlane-Toys-Matrix-Mifunes-Stand/dp/B000XHJVWS

[Lockark]

They seem to have gone off "converting" FW models into plastic - for instance, the upcoming plastic Eldar flyer apparently isn't the established Nightwing, but something new. Financially, it makes sense - rather than decommissioning a popular resin kit to make a plastic version, they make a similar, but markedly different, plastic kit to hype up. Still sells for the same reasons as the resin kit (Eldar designs applied to Fliers looks awesome!) but without cutting out the resin kit.




By that logic why would they ever both converting metal models into plastic kits? Just saying.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

By that logic why would they ever both converting metal models into plastic kits? Just saying./shrug. Their MO is what it is, insider sources say they've stopped converting FW kits.

This is just a guess, but apparently metal prices are rising significantly - metal kits may be becoming less sustainable. In that case, discontinuing a metal kit becomes a bonus in the process, not a loss. They do seem pretty hellbent on scouring metal kits from their catalogue, although that's also affected by Finecast marketing.

Could also just be inner company politics at work, that they feel both sets of designers produce better results if they're working independently.

[gendoikari87]

Could GW build a Titan?

Somehow I doubt they could build a lasgun, and if they can, they need to GTFO of the plastic miniature business.

[Herzlos]

By that logic why would they ever both converting metal models into plastic kits? Just saying.

Profit. Once you've covered the cost of tooling the per-sprue cost of plastic is very low, and you can churn them out at an impressive rate 24/7.

The cost of tooling is huge though (£10,000's?) so it only makes sense if the thing you're making is going to sell lots of. So things like starter sets and basic troop choices will recoup the cost fairly quickly.

If you're not likely to sell that much of something (special characters for instance, you'd only have 1 per army vs potentially dozens of infantry squads / tanks), then the time taken to recoup the tooling cost is longer, if they ever manage it. In which case they are cast in metal/resin; it's slowed to make and most costly per-unit, but the moulds are orders of magnitude cheaper.

So would it be cool if they made a plastic titan? Yes! But will they get enough sales to justify it? Maybe for the smallest, but it's unlikely for anything beyond that.

How many people would buy a titan if it was available in plastic rather than FW resin?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I much prefer the plastic Hive Tyrant to the metal one. :p

[thelion]

can gw make a plastic kit titan? well im sure the answer is yes, should they that is debatable, i think the bigger question is would we want them to? if they did you would most likley see a titan or three in every apoc battle. they would become a plague the likes of witch we have never seen.