Tau Remora vs Stealth suits

[Panxer]

Tacticall I'm thinking that Remora Stealth Fighters outstrip xv15/25 stealth suits in capabilities and points.

For a 110 + 5pts if you want a blacksun filter, you get a hovering flyer that takes up a fast attack slot (not an elite, which IMO stealth suits should be troops) AND you get 36" TL S6 AP4 assault 6 long barreled burst cannons, two seekers missiles, stealth fields (Shrouded + Stealth), AND a markerlight

For the same amount of points (115), the xv15/25 you get three jetpack models with deepstrike, stealth+shroud, 9 18" S5 AP5 burst cannon shots, team leader w/ bonding knife with options including a gun drone/shield drone, and maybe a 12" melta_depending on how you handled your options and load out.

Granted, Jetpack infantry are no SOOOOO mobile now, but a flyer can zoom 36" from the board edge and lay down fire, while the xv unit can deepstrike anywhere on the board (scatter even with marker beacons) and still leap away up to 12" but is seriously lacking in fire power while providing ample risk for effective deployment and movement range. IE flyer from board edge 36", XV stealth team max 2D6- 24" (with no running); AND the remora can deal out 6 TL S6 AP4 shots, a markeright, AND fire its own seeker missile.

Given what a remora can do vs what a stealth team can do, I'm going with the Remora. You wanna play stealth suits? They have their uses. Not saying don't take them, just providing a side by side comparison of capabilities vs points cost.:cool:

[DrLove42]

It would help if you used the current rules for the Remora. What you're quoting here aren't current

In the FW Aeronautica book the remora is 110 points.

But it only has 1 Twinlinked burst cannon (S5 AP5 3 shots) not this TL S6 AP4 6 shot thing you're quoting. Not even sure I know where you're quoting that from.

It DOES have shrouded....but it doesn't have stealth.

How does that change your views?

[Panxer]

http://clubworkshed.blogspot.com/2007/09/forge-world-new-ig-tank-tau-remora.html

http://advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18752

These are just 2 links to some of the information available and you can look up the tau forgeworld update on 'long barreled burst cannons' to get the profile for the weapon system.

If you read the previous post, you'd get that the flyer costs 110 and 115 if you want to add a blacksun filter... as I stated.

And for the record a stealth field generator gives shrouded and stealth USR's as per the Tau FAQ.

Granted, I don't have the current imperial armor book. I find it hard to spend money on a book covering plastic models that costs more than a college text book, so forgive me if I don't have the most up to date information. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it, but if you do the research online you'll find that most (if not all) of my information on the remora is correct and up to date.

[Jwolf]

If you check even your own references, Panxer, the LBBC that have the stats you provide are not those on the Remora. Generalizing a weapon update on one platform to be true for other platforms without reference is wishful thinking, and should be avoided.

[Panxer]

So the remora doesn't have long barreled burst cannons consistent with the forgeworld update weapon profile of TL 36" S6 AP4 assault 6?

So the Remora doesn't have a stealth field generator conferring stealth and shrouded USR's?

So the Remora isn't 110 pts with an optional blacksun filter for 5pts?

So the BS isn't 2 with a target array making it BS3?

Please provide the reference and I'll be glad to admit I'm full of it.

[Panxer]

And by this rationale, I'm going to assume that there are tau fusion blasters for the xv stealth team that is 12" melta assault 1, and yet there is also a COMPLETELY different weapon system with the same name and COMPLETELY different stats for the XV8 crisis models.

Granted, I will concede that the forgeworld 6th ed vehicle updates has the remora as 'shrouded' not shrouded +stealth, BUT that's still a 3+ cover save with the jink or evade USR's

But otherwise, provide me with the stats contrary to what's up on the interwebs so that everyone can see and know conclusively and for the record... If you're going to say someone's FOS please back it up... if my stats are wrong, fine...I don't have the book, but then please don't come back and just say you're FOS without providing the proofs...it's bad manners.

[Panxer]

And now since I'm hot on this now...

The fact we're arguing about little plastic models is absurd in itself, but discounting that fact...

A flyer with S6 AP4 TL assault 6 isn't THAT big of a deal being that Tau have no real AA capability (even the SKY ray has no skyfire USR) and just about EVERY army that a flyer has tougher weapons than that on the board, and we're arguing over a point of strength and ap value?! Seriously? You're gonna call a guy out as being FOS over a weapon system update for a brand new edition which hasn't even been out for 3 months yet? Are we really crying about whether a flyer has S6 weaponry or not?

I guess it's true. It's not a game.

My offer still stands though. Post the stats, prove me wrong, and I'll eat crow. I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong, and if it benefits everyone else out there by finally getting the truth then I'll gladly take one for the team.

[Uncle Nutsy]

So the remora doesn't have long barreled burst cannons consistent with the forgeworld update weapon profile of TL 36" S6 AP4 assault 6?

So the Remora doesn't have a stealth field generator conferring stealth and shrouded USR's?

So the Remora isn't 110 pts with an optional blacksun filter for 5pts?

So the BS isn't 2 with a target array making it BS3?

Please provide the reference and I'll be glad to admit I'm full of it.

where are you seeing these stats?

[DrLove42]

Hes implying them.

The 2 links hes provided to argue his case;

1) The first is a personal blog from 5 years ago talking about the experimental rules that were released when the model first was, and contains a link to those rules (which no longer exist at the link or on FW's website)

2) The 2nd is a modern up to date version of the rules (prior to the new book). However it makes the same mistakes he has by;

- Assuming the stealth field generator changes in the FAQ for the codex are the same as the ones for the flier (understandable)
- And assuming the changes to the burst cannon turret that the Hammerhead can take also means the Remoras drones have changed

I can confirm that it is 110 points. And its BS 3 thanks to a T array. And it has built in Black Sun Filters (no paying for them). But your info on the guns is completly wrong. And i know i'm right, i'm holding a week old book

[Panxer]

Yeah my online reference were from tau advanced tau tactica as well as club workshed, but I'm also going off of the forgeworld site itself: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/t/Tauupdate.pdf as well as http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-BATTLESUITS-AND-DRONES/TAU-REMORA-DRONE-STEALTH-FIGHTERS.html

So, you're not really arguing me...you're arguing forgeworld.

You got the book? Great! What are the stats please? You've given us points and wargear, and admitted that I'm at least partly informed and correct in my information, so please give me the book reference, page number, and gun stats and I'll gladly go away on this...

I don't mean to be a phallus, however when called out, I tend to root. I guess that makes me a phungis...?

[DrLove42]

K from memory....

Imperial Armour Aeronautica Page....something

Remore Drone

10/10/10 Hover, flier

2 Hull Points

BS2 (+1 from T Array)

2 LB Burst Cannons (36", S5 AP5 Heavy 3)
Networked Markerlight
2 Seeker Missiles
Targetting Array
Blacksun Filter

110 points

[Panxer]

K from memory....

Imperial Armour Aeronautica Page....something

Remore Drone

10/10/10 Hover, flier

2 Hull Points

BS2 (+1 from T Array)

2 LB Burst Cannons (36", S5 AP5 Heavy 3)
Networked Markerlight
2 Seeker Missiles
Targetting Array
Blacksun Filter

110 points

Danke! wow 99% of what I had down was right! Out-standing! Your memory might be a little hazy, but as promised...point conceded.

[DrLove42]

Crap! very fuzzy mmemory or mistype. Its one twinlined lb cannon not 2

[gcsmith]

Lol compared to the game's other flyers it's barely worth its points.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Lol compared to the game's other flyers it's barely worth its points.The size of the model might play into the price - it's much easier to conceal than most flyers, and if it can get cover it becomes very resilient.

Since you only need to have 25% of the targeted facing in cover, and the targetable facings (i.e., not top/bottom) are very small, getting cover for it and its Shrouding shouldn't be too hard.