Nurgle's Rot, Aura of Decay and Allies

[Daemonette666]

There is a discussion going on another website wargamer.au and people are not coming up with an answer. They just want to argue and belittle each other with stupid emoticons and smileys with tongues poking out, etc.

Here it is . One person mentioned a gimmicky/cheese tactic where they used Aura of Decay from Epedemius to kill off allied Gretchin to get his Tally of Nurgle up really high in the turn Epedemius drops in.

I think this is too cheesy, but the argument went on about how it is not a legal thing as allies can not be targeted, and so on.

I want to know about the use of Nurgle's Rot, and Aura of Decay from another point of view. Say I am in close combat with an enemy unit, and my Plague Bearers and Herald use AOD while I have an allied unit (allies of convenience or desperation). Can I legally use AOD, or if the situation were involving a CSM lord or Sorcerer - can Nurgle's Rot be cast?

If it can be used, will the allies who die from AOD or Nurgles Rot, add to the enemies Combat resolution score against me?

I have emailed my local GW in Australia, and Know a lot of the people who work at the head office as well, and hope to get it FAQ'd when GW finally release one for 6th edition.

What do you think would be the ruling on it's use.

Also what would you treat Nurgles rot as - a Nova Psychic power? Some are saying it is not, but will not say what they think it is. What about Aura of Decay? How would you classify it? It is not a barrage, or template weapon. It has the same effect as a Nova type attack, but GW does not list Nova type attacks.

[Lerra]

Well, there are no psychic powers in the Daemons codex, so Aura of Decay and ~~Nurgle's Rot~~ are not Nova Psychic Powers. You don't roll a psychic test, it can't be countered by a psychic hood, there are no Perils or anything else associated with psychic powers, etc. Those upgrades basically just a special type of gun, or wargear.

edit: I was confusing Nurgle's Rot with Cloud of Flies. Nurgle's Rot isn't in the Chaos Daemons dex. Cloud of Flies is the other Nurgle shooting attack for Daemons.

[thecactusman17]

Aura of Decay does not need to target anything, nor does it fail to go off if any declared target is out of range. The reality is that while it may be considered cheesy, the combo works exactly as advertised.

And as a non-Daemon player, I think it's fine. Yes, Plaguebearers are even better, but they are still plaguebearers. Further, we are talking about Gretchin for goodness sakes--any semi-decent shooting unit is going to kill them immediately, and even if the daemons have turn one they still have a 50-50 chance of not bringing in Epidimius. In short, it's a cool, lore-appropriate tactic (replace Gretchin with any number of lesser mortals) that works brilliantly, and which possesses a fatal flaw in the execution.

[Daemonette666]

Nurgle's Rot is a psychic power. It does require a psychic test to pass. It also happens to affect all enemy models within 6" of the caster, even if they or the caster is locked in close combat. Check the description for nova type psychic powers. Nurgle's Rot is a Nova Type Power.

The question was about whether you could use Nova powers like Nurgle's Rot, while locked in close combat with an enemy unit, and you had an ally of convenience unit taking part in the same combat assisting you.

I know i also gave an example of a cheesy tactic another gamer wanted to use to increase Epedemius's tally by killing off a lot of gretchin from an allied unit using Aura of decay. This question was whether the ability/gift Aura of Decay would be classified as a Nova type attack as it mirrors the rules for Nova type Psychic powers. Even though AOD is not a psychic power.

[evilamericorp]

From Codex Chaos Daemons: "Aura of Decay is a ranged weapon..."
From the BRB: "...treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units that cannot be... shot..."

The only way to use a ranged weapon is to shoot it, allies of convenience cannot be shot. You can use AoD whenever you want, it just won't affect any allies in range.

[Daemonette666]

I know the tactic is flawed, I mentioned it on the appropriate thread, and mentioned you had to get Epedemius down onto the Skyray defence shield without scattering, then you had to pass a one eye open test to get them in closer for maximum effect. I also know that the gretchin will be targeted by the enemy, and the person who mentioned it said you could hide the gretchin behind the skyray defence shield walls until Epedemius arrived.

A discussion on the other website has recently determined that Nova psychic attacks can not be used against to hurt allies of convenience or allies of desperation as it specifically targets all enemies within the range of the power. This means it breaks the rule for aliies, as it is targeting the unit/units shooting at them, even though the ability has an area of effect.

Aura of Decay has also been determined to be a shooting attack that targets all enemy in a zone 6" for the Daemon, so can not target allies either as it it a shooting attack on the same thread.

It is a pity there were so many childish replies with tongue poking out smileys, before I got an answer on that site.

[Daemonette666]

I just received this reply from GW about my question on Aura of Decay and Nurgle;s Rot being used in close combat against an enemy wile an allied unit is also locked in the same combat. They did not mention Nurgle's Rot by name, but I suppose they covered both attacks with the same ruling. --

"Thanks for the email and it's great to hear that you are enjoying the new rules.

For the first situation these wounds caused by Aura of Decay do not count towards combat resolution as this is a shooting attack that is activated in the shooting phase only, therefore will not effect combat.

For the Second situation, as the Aura of Decay is a ranged attack that can be used if the model is locked in combat. As this is a ranged attack you need to target a legitimate target unit to fire on, as the Gretchen can not be targeted directly you will need to target another enemy unit due to the alliance rule that states even though they are enemies you can not target them but they can suffer from effects of psychic attacks or miss directed shooting e.g. scattered templates.

We hope that this helps and if you do have any other questions please contact us again."

The 2 examples I gave were of a unit locked in close combat while an allied unit was aiding them, and you wanted to either Aura of Decay or Nurgle'Rot. The second example I wanted solved was where a cheesy tactic had been put forward, and the person wanted to use an allied unit of Gretchin in a Sky shield landing pad to protect the gretchin, and then land Epedemius (and unit) in the gap in the middle of them and, then in the shooting phase use Aura of Decay to kill as many gretchin as possible to get his tally of Nurgle up quickly.

This was a heavily flawed tactic, anyway with deep strike mishaps, one eye open rolls, and having only a 50% chance of killing a gretchin anyway. The matter has been resolved, but brings up some very strange arguments still.


Does this mean that I can target an enemy unit in close combat, but the allies are not effected by Nurgle's Rot, or does it mean that they will also get effected, but they do not add to the combat resolution score of my opponent? GW still need to be more concise with their answers.

[thecactusman17]

Nurgle's Rot kills the allies, but it is a shooting attack so it does not affect in any way the combat resolution. Same as Aura of Decay.

And "Evilcorp," just a friendly word of advice: if you need to pull a all but a single word out of the rule when quoting it to make your point, there's a good chance you are misreading the rule. In this case, the rule is that you cannot target them for shooting, not that they cannot be shot. If they couldn't be shot, then you couldn't harm them with a stray blast, for example.

[Daemonette666]

Thanks "The Cactus Man 17" cool name.

It does explain how I can use it in close combat, thus making it not a waste of points.

This also means that the tactic another gamer wanted to try cannot be used. Namely targeting the gretchin allies with Aura of Decay to increase his Nurgle's Tally with Epedemius.. I think it would be very disheartening to other gamers to have to face his army if that was allowed. Imagine in turn 1 or 2 when Epedemius arrives, having the tally rise to 10-20 wounds in one round of shooting.

I used a CSM Nurgle based Army with Epedemius and Nurgle Daemon allies, and everyone hated that army, so I have stopped using it.

This also means I will have to be more careful if I want to aid my allies (such as Tau) who may be getting cut to bits in close combat. They could lose more troops from my assistance if I use those abilities.

[RGilbert26]

Check this months White Dwarf, it states in the battle report that Aura of Decay does not require a pyshic test. Just activates.

[Daemonette666]

Check this months White Dwarf, it states in the battle report that Aura of Decay does not require a pyshic test. Just activates.

What does not require a psychic test? Aura of Decay? Of course it does not, it is a shooting attack that automatically targets enemies within 6" and Daemons do not have Psychic powers, just daemonic Gifts. We never said it was a Psychic power. The GW staff reply mentioned that it was a shooting attack, so did thecactusman17.

I thought we worked out that you can not specifically target the allies with the ability/Daemonic gift, or in the case of CSM the psychic powe as it is not a legitimate target. You have to have an enemy model/unit within 6" for your caster or Daemon to target the attack against. The attack my also affects the allies when it is used against the valid enemy unit. Also the allies killed, do at add to the combat resolution score if you are in close combat. I could not for example use either Nurgle's rot or Aura of Decay to kill my allies if there were no enemy units outside the 6" zone for the Attack.

The question has been answered, so thanks for the assistance everyone.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Originally Posted by RGilbert26
Check this months White Dwarf, it states in the battle report that Aura of Decay does not require a pyshic test. Just activates.

No ability from Codex: Chaos Daemons needs a psychic test to activate I thought?

[Daemonette666]

No ability from Codex: Chaos Daemons needs a psychic test to activate I thought?
I thought my response had already answered RGilberts Query?

I had tried to close this thread as I had my original question answered by thecactusman17!

Again, this time a little more clearer, I consider this thread closed.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Fine, I'll contact the Mods...

Seriously, work on your attitude.

[Daemonette666]

Fine, I'll contact the Mods...

Seriously, work on your attitude.

Thank you TDA. If you could contact them to close the thread it would be appreciated. I was trying to be mature and more succinct about what I was trying to say. I have seen how arguments grow on forum topics from a comment worded badly, and it looked like another might start if RGilbert took your response badly.

I have seen some comments by people who seem to incite arguments, almost trolling for them. I wanted to avoid that. If you took my comments wrong, then you should not have.

It was a simple statement to clarify that I considered the thread closed, because it seemed my first attempt must have been worded incorrectly. If anyone thought I had I was being rude, it was unintentional.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Already done. It'll be closed as soon as he gets online.

Cheers,

Agent

[Daemonette666]

Thanks TDA and thanks everyone for your input to resolve the question I had.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Question answered, thread closed.