Grey Knight 1850 Final Thoughts?

[ksoh75]

Any thought would be great. Thanks!

1850 Pts - Grey Knights Roster - GKLib1850listv2.5updated

HQ: 1 Lord Kaldor Draigo
Troops: 1 Paladin Squad (Draigo attached)
4 Paladin (Nemesis Force Halberd)
1 Paladin (Nemesis Daemonhammer)

HQ 1 Librarian (Quicksilver; The Shrouding; The Summoning) (Used to cast abilities on the Pally squads in battle. Support unit only.)
Troops: 1 Paladin Squad (Librarian attached)
4 Paladin (Nemesis Force Halberd)
1 Paladin (Nemesis Daemonhammer)

Elite: Purifier Squad
1 Stormraven Gunship (Twin-Linked Multi-melta; Searchlight)
1 Knight of the Flame (Nemesis Force Halberd)
4 Purifier (Psycannon)
5 Purifier (Nemesis Force Halberd)

Heavy Support: Nemesis Dreadknight (1#, 205 pts)
1 Nemesis Dreadknight @ 205 pts (Personal Teleporter)

Heavy Support: Dreadnought (1#, 151 pts)
1 Dreadnought @ 151 pts (Extra Armor; Psybolt Ammunition; Searchlight; Twin-Linked Autocannon; Twin-Linked Autocannon)

Total Roster Cost: 1849

[ksoh75]

silence is a good sign...lol

[Seirin]

Ravens constitute great risks as delivery methods, and while durable, a LR can often be a better choice.

Heavy incinerators on the DK are well worth the points, but always keep in mind that both DK and dreads work best in pairs. Personally I've recently been leaning to all-infantry lists, or DK over dreads for effectiveness.

With 4 halberds, quicksilver is really pointless. Swap it for might of titan or warp rift and you'll see a bigger effect.

Thats about it from me..

[ksoh75]

Ravens constitute great risks as delivery methods, and while durable, a LR can often be a better choice.

Heavy incinerators on the DK are well worth the points, but always keep in mind that both DK and dreads work best in pairs. Personally I've recently been leaning to all-infantry lists, or DK over dreads for effectiveness.

With 4 halberds, quicksilver is really pointless. Swap it for might of titan or warp rift and you'll see a bigger effect.

Thats about it from me..


Good point on the halbreds.....all troops egh? Foot sloggin??

I had a list originally like that. I had 2 DK's in one of my lists. Just thought a different model in there to mix it up would be good.

I don't want to add points to something that is already expensive.

As for the Raven. I got that in a good deal with that and termies....I'm not dumping money on a land Raider that costs almost 60 points naked.

[Seirin]

Two 10-man pally units have to walk for sure, but with running they aren't that slow. Plus with an effective 30" firing radius, its really not as bad as you think. Plus you get deepstrike. That aside, its personal choice.

The pairs rule is generally because if theres only one, its fairly easy to deal with, but with two its twice as hard, so either it becomes a shot-sink or gets ignored to do its business. Again its not that 1 of each can't be effective, its just that 2 is more tried and tested - so don't let it deter you.

If you want to use a storm raven, using one as a gun-boat can be quite fun. Psybolt with sponsoons and run in close or plasma/missile combo for distance. No experience with the latter but a friend of mine swears by it.

[ksoh75]

Two 10-man pally units have to walk for sure, but with running they aren't that slow. Plus with an effective 30" firing radius, its really not as bad as you think. Plus you get deepstrike. That aside, its personal choice.

The pairs rule is generally because if theres only one, its fairly easy to deal with, but with two its twice as hard, so either it becomes a shot-sink or gets ignored to do its business. Again its not that 1 of each can't be effective, its just that 2 is more tried and tested - so don't let it deter you.

If you want to use a storm raven, using one as a gun-boat can be quite fun. Psybolt with sponsoons and run in close or plasma/missile combo for distance. No experience with the latter but a friend of mine swears by it.

Great advice. I'll run the numbers and see how it comes out

[Seirin]

Great advice. I'll run the numbers and see how it comes out

:D good luck

[Bean]

Some thoughts.

There don't seem to be any psycannons in your paladin units. This is a huge mistake--forty points for two psycannons in a troop paladin unit is pretty much the best 40 points you can spend. Both paladin units should have two psycannons.

On the Librarian, I honestly think I would advise not paying for powers and taking the two free Divination powers, instead. Be prepared to swap one out for the primaris power, because it is awesome.

Darklink pointed out (and he's absolutely right) that, as a support piece (especially if you're going to play Divination anyway) Coteaz is much better at 100 points than a GK Libby is at 150. So, consider Coteaz.

As's been mentioned, Raven's a little bit of a risk for a big combat unit. I think it's reasonable, though, and the Raven is a pretty good buy, anyway, at this point, so I think I'd try it out if I were you. Be prepared to do things differently and use the Raven as a gunship.

Also, and I can't stress this enough, be prepared to bring the Raven in as a skimmer, via deepstrike, rather than flying it onto the board. If your opponent has good anti-air options (vendettas or the DE flyers or whatever) this is much less of a risk. For one thing, as a skimmer you get the Jink save without any penalties. If you deepstrike as a skimmer, you can still shoot all your weapons, you can get your guys out when you come in and they can shoot (which they may well want to do, especially if you give them that extra psycannon) you can bring the Dread in with it and it can disembark and shoot. Most importantly, if it does get shot down the turn it comes in, it won't take all its passengers with it if it's hovering. This isn't always the right call, but it's the best call in a non-trivial number of circumstances, and you should always consider it. Also, you don't have to declare that it will be deepstriking until it actually comes into reserve--you get to pick right before you bring it on.

Don't know what you're planning to play on the turret of your raven, but go with assault cannon. It's still the best option.

Your dreadknight is properly kitted--congratulations! This is a pretty reasonable piece, these days, but if you have to cut points for psycannons (and you should cut points for psycannons if you haven't already) it should either be by taking this guy out entirely (you might be able to squeeze another dread in, instead) or by taking out the librarian.

Mastercrafting on psycannons is worth it. If you do it, though, remember that it requires you to roll to hit with each psycannon individually.

That's all that leaps to mind. I'll post more if I think about it. On the whole, looks like you're on the right track. Just bring more psycannons! Seriously--they're just about the best part of the codex.

[Seirin]

Can't believe I missed the psycannons...guess it goes to show how much of a no-brainer they really are. Kudos to mr Bean here.

Only point I'd argue on is the DK - love the incinerators.

[Bean]

Can't believe I missed the psycannons...guess it goes to show how much of a no-brainer they really are. Kudos to mr Bean here.

Only point I'd argue on is the DK - love the incinerators.

I can tolerate an incinerator here or there. I really don't think they're necessary--the dreadknight's gotta be punching high value targets to be worthwhile--but they're good filler for their points.

It's just, you know...DKs are so close to the margin, I hate to make them any more expensive.

[Seirin]

Yeah I know...down to personal preference again I guess.

[ksoh75]

Some thoughts.

There don't seem to be any psycannons in your paladin units. This is a huge mistake--forty points for two psycannons in a troop paladin unit is pretty much the best 40 points you can spend. Both paladin units should have two psycannons.

On the Librarian, I honestly think I would advise not paying for powers and taking the two free Divination powers, instead. Be prepared to swap one out for the primaris power, because it is awesome.

Oly reason he's coming is for Summoning and Shrouding mainly. I don't want to go getting slaughtered by gun lines before I get to the first half of the board or towards an objective.

Darklink pointed out (and he's absolutely right) that, as a support piece (especially if you're going to play Divination anyway) Coteaz is much better at 100 points than a GK Libby is at 150. So, consider Coteaz.

Going pure Grey Knight only.

As's been mentioned, Raven's a little bit of a risk for a big combat unit. I think it's reasonable, though, and the Raven is a pretty good buy, anyway, at this point, so I think I'd try it out if I were you. Be prepared to do things differently and use the Raven as a gunship.

Also, and I can't stress this enough, be prepared to bring the Raven in as a skimmer, via deepstrike, rather than flying it onto the board. If your opponent has good anti-air options (vendettas or the DE flyers or whatever) this is much less of a risk. For one thing, as a skimmer you get the Jink save without any penalties. If you deepstrike as a skimmer, you can still shoot all your weapons, you can get your guys out when you come in and they can shoot (which they may well want to do, especially if you give them that extra psycannon) you can bring the Dread in with it and it can disembark and shoot. Most importantly, if it does get shot down the turn it comes in, it won't take all its passengers with it if it's hovering. This isn't always the right call, but it's the best call in a non-trivial number of circumstances, and you should always consider it. Also, you don't have to declare that it will be deepstriking until it actually comes into reserve--you get to pick right before you bring it on.

Don't know what you're planning to play on the turret of your raven, but go with assault cannon. It's still the best option.

One of the best guns out there! That's a no brainer!


Your dreadknight is properly kitted--congratulations! This is a pretty reasonable piece, these days, but if you have to cut points for psycannons (and you should cut points for psycannons if you haven't already) it should either be by taking this guy out entirely (you might be able to squeeze another dread in, instead) or by taking out the librarian.

Mastercrafting on psycannons is worth it. If you do it, though, remember that it requires you to roll to hit with each psycannon individually.

That's all that leaps to mind. I'll post more if I think about it. On the whole, looks like you're on the right track. Just bring more psycannons! Seriously--they're just about the best part of the codex.

Good points. Just soe of them I cna't really agree on. I want to make sure I have a blanced list for the small amount of troops I have. Next post will have my updated list.

[ksoh75]

1850 Pts - Grey Knights Roster - GKLib1850listv3.0updated

Troops: Paladin Squad
HQ: Lord Kaldor Draigo
HQ: Librarian (The Shrouding; The Summoning; Vortex of Doom)
2 Paladin (Nemesis Force Halberd)
1 Paladin (Nemesis Daemonhammer; Mastercraft Weapon)

Combining the Libby and Draigo and giving them 2 support Pallies just seemed right. I don’t need to start these guys on the board either. I did switch up the Libbies powers since I’m taking Halberds. Out of Titan and Vortex, I chose Vortex. Just seemed naughty. Can mess a lot of **** up. Gave the Hammer on the 1 Pally MC just cuz in that squad, it’s a bit more elite since they are like a retinue for Draigo and his Libby

Troops: Paladin Squad
6 Paladin (Nemesis Force Halberd)
1 Paladin (Nemesis Daemonhammer)
2 Paladin (Psycannon; Nemesis Force Halberd)

Nothing to say here. DS these bad ***** smack in the middle of the board and or run them. Shrouding will help. Worse case I can summon them to join the Draigo/Libby team. AHHH Notice the psycannons?? LOL

Elite: Purifier Squad
1 Knight of the Flame (Nemesis Force Halberd)
4 Purifier (Psycannon)
5 Purifier (Nemesis Force Halberd)

NUFF SAID HERE!

Heavy Support: Nemesis Dreadknight x2
(Personal Teleporter)
I’m going to use these guys to tie up beg units. 4 AT S10 is just pure mind blowing on the killing a pair of these can do

Total Roster Cost: 1847

I'm just a bit worried about shooting and not having any search lights. Tho now that you think about it. When it comes down to night fighting, don't you want to run in the dark? Hell cast shrouding and you aren't seeing crap...lol

Let me know what yo uthink about this new list. I already know how I can take it to 2k for big games and down to 1500 pt games since it seems that people are typically building for those as well.

[Bean]

Good points. Just soe of them I cna't really agree on. I want to make sure I have a blanced list for the small amount of troops I have. Next post will have my updated list.

No worries--I can respect aesthetic choices like pure grey knights (though I'm not sure a Malleus inquisitor counts--GK are pretty seperate from the Ordo Malleus in the fluff, these days).

A few thoughts on your list: playing nine paladins seems like a mistake--make it ten and bring the two extra psycannons.

Don't worry about shooting and searchlights. Pretty much all your weapons are range 24 anyway, which means, at most, you'll be looking at your enemies maybe getting stealth for a turn or two. Not a huge deal.

I'd also load up the Purifiers with Psycannons: Justicar with Daemon Hammer, five Halberds, and four Psycannons seems a pretty standard Purifier loadout, and I think that's what I'd play if I were going to run them--especially if I were going to run them on foot.

[ksoh75]

No worries--I can respect aesthetic choices like pure grey knights (though I'm not sure a Malleus inquisitor counts--GK are pretty seperate from the Ordo Malleus in the fluff, these days).

A few thoughts on your list: playing nine paladins seems like a mistake--make it ten and bring the two extra psycannons.

Don't worry about shooting and searchlights. Pretty much all your weapons are range 24 anyway, which means, at most, you'll be looking at your enemies maybe getting stealth for a turn or two. Not a huge deal.

I'd also load up the Purifiers with Psycannons: Justicar with Daemon Hammer, five Halberds, and four Psycannons seems a pretty standard Purifier loadout, and I think that's what I'd play if I were going to run them--especially if I were going to run them on foot.

I'm working with 1850....so what do I cut from what I have to make these changes??

[Neelam]

I'd take atleast 2 hammers on each of the paladin squads , if you get in combat with any other terminators you'll be struggling as you only have AP3 power weapons (even draigo). Always take a hammer or two in the power armor units as well .

Also you lack target saturation taking two expensive HQ's + Paladins - consider taking A paladin unit + a terminator unit or something. A couple of demolisher shots your way will ruin your day.

I find a unit of terminators + xenos inquisitor (power armor, venom talon , needle pistol , both types of grenades for 88pts you cant complain). To be very effective , I usually run them in a stormraven - this is generally the most expensive unit i'll run .

Guard with GK allies are fantastic just fyi

[ksoh75]

I'd take atleast 2 hammers on each of the paladin squads , if you get in combat with any other terminators you'll be struggling as you only have AP3 power weapons (even draigo). Always take a hammer or two in the power armor units as well .

Also you lack target saturation taking two expensive HQ's + Paladins - consider taking A paladin unit + a terminator unit or something. A couple of demolisher shots your way will ruin your day.

I find a unit of terminators + xenos inquisitor (power armor, venom talon , needle pistol , both types of grenades for 88pts you cant complain). To be very effective , I usually run them in a stormraven - this is generally the most expensive unit i'll run .

Guard with GK allies are fantastic just fyi

Appreciate the input but again....this is a pure GK fluff army only. Someone mentioned Cortez as well but I'm trying to not spend $600 bucks on a small model count army. Everything I listed I have 75% of minus the dredknights and 1 squad or Gk's

[Bean]

I'm working with 1850....so what do I cut from what I have to make these changes??

Fair point. How about this:

275: Draigo

150: librarian

630: 10 paladins, four psycannons
55: paladin
55: paladin

275: 10 Purifiers, five halberds, hammer, four psycannons

205: DK, teleporter

205: DK, teleporter

This doesn't give you shrouding or summoning, but I think you'll find that this (summoning especially) is not really much of a loss. Try the Divination powers.

I don't have my codex on me, so I'm kinda doing the purifiers from memory--if I got the price wrong, there, sorry

I might drop the librarian altogether, especially if it turns out this list is a little over. If you do, you can squeeze in another solo paladin or two (these are basically just for taking objectives) and some upgrades (mastercrafting, stave, banner) into the big paladin unit.

[ksoh75]

Fair point. How about this:

275: Draigo

150: librarian

630: 10 paladins, four psycannons
55: paladin
55: paladin

275: 10 Purifiers, five halberds, hammer, four psycannons

205: DK, teleporter

205: DK, teleporter

This doesn't give you shrouding or summoning, but I think you'll find that this (summoning especially) is not really much of a loss. Try the Divination powers.

I don't have my codex on me, so I'm kinda doing the purifiers from memory--if I got the price wrong, there, sorry

I might drop the librarian altogether, especially if it turns out this list is a little over. If you do, you can squeeze in another solo paladin or two (these are basically just for taking objectives) and some upgrades (mastercrafting, stave, banner) into the big paladin unit.


This is what I came up with..it's 1850 exactly:

1850 Pts - Grey Knights Roster - 1850GKv3.5

Troops:
HQ: 1 Lord Kaldor Draigo
1 Paladin Squad
3 Paladin (Master-craft Nemesis Weapon(s); MC Nemesis Daemonhammer)

Troops: Paladin Squad
(Psybolt Ammunition)
2 Paladin (Master-craft Nemesis Weapon(s); MC Nemesis Daemonhammer)
2 Paladin (Master-craft Ranged Weapon; MC Psycannon)
6 Paladin (Nemesis Force Halberd)

Elite:
1 Purifier Squad
1 Knight of the Flame (Master-craft Storm Bolter; Nemesis Daemonhammer)
4 Purifier (Psycannon)
5 Purifier

Heavy Support: Nemesis Dreadknight (1#, 245 pts) x2
1 Nemesis Dreadknight @ 245 pts (Personal Teleporter; Heavy Psycannon)


Total Roster Cost: 1850

[Seirin]

Looking better. Would recommend losing the heavy psycannons on your DKs in exchange for 2 more psys on your 10 man pally squad and a rhino for your purifiers.

Otherwise its pretty gravy.

[ksoh75]

Looking better. Would recommend losing the heavy psycannons on your DKs in exchange for 2 more psys on your 10 man pally squad and a rhino for your purifiers.

Otherwise its pretty gravy.

PM'd you....

cuz of you...you have me thnking about Cortez.......you suck.

Rhino??? really??? I wasn't planning on moving that squad of purifers....was going to hunker them down in or around some nice 4+ cover....

[Seirin]

Well if not a rhino then, get a razorback with psybolts - its more firepower and can be used to block LoS if needed. Plus in missions where its appropriate you can combat squad your purifiers and psyback em forwards.

[Kyban]

Well if not a rhino then, get a razorback with psybolts - its more firepower and can be used to block LoS if needed. Plus in missions where its appropriate you can combat squad your purifiers and psyback em forwards.

Maybe a ADL with gun for cover and anti-air instead.

[ksoh75]

Maybe a ADL with gun for cover and anti-air instead.

Going to be stupid for a sec....ADL?

[Kyban]

Going to be stupid for a sec....ADL?

Aegis Defense Line, one of the new fortifications.

[ksoh75]

Aegis Defense Line, one of the new fortifications.

hmmmm....know the points off the top of your head?

[Kyban]

They're in the brb. I think it's 50 for the ADL, 35 for I. Lascannon or 50 for the quadgun.

[ksoh75]

They're in the brb. I think it's 50 for the ADL, 35 for I. Lascannon or 50 for the quadgun.

I don't have the rulebook in front of me.....slacking of at work currently thus why I asked. I'll have too look at that. That would be alot of cover and a great set up for my purifiers

[Bean]

Looking better. Would recommend losing the heavy psycannons on your DKs in exchange for 2 more psys on your 10 man pally squad and a rhino for your purifiers.

Otherwise its pretty gravy.

This.