New DE FAQ due?

[DrLove42]

Apparantly Phil Kelly mentioned a new DE FAQ due in the near future

Quoted from Faeit 212


via quilava1
Today I attended Games Day Chicago and had a chance to chat with Phil Kelly himself. I mentioned to him my sadness at the lack of a power fist, as our anti-termie combat weapons are limited to the demiklaives. He started to ask me why I just didn't use a huskblade, but stopped himself mid-sentance. A few minutes later, he told me that a new FAQ was on the way. Finally GW has listened to our pleas and brought the feared terminator down a rung in the ladder of brokenness. Almost asked him about Chaos Marines, but decided not to. Would have loved to see his reaction though

Look forward to it! Huskblades might have to appear on my Archons from now on

[Quaade]

That sounds very promising, I also hope they add some of the odd USR here and there, for example DE fliers would be prime targets for Vector Dancer and Mandrakes should really have the Daemon USR.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

"Finally GW has listened to our pleas... and brought the Terminator down a rung..."

Do people listen to themselves? "Finally" being "all of four weeks" and "being brought down a rung" by one weapon (which is simply overcosted at AP3). Good news, but man oh man.

New FAQs is good, though! They did say that fuller ones were on their way.

[Houghten]

Can Dark Eldar not take power axes or something?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Can Dark Eldar not take power axes or something?

Apparently not? Hahahaha!

You speak a good point, why aren't the Dark Eldar players using them? They can take power weapons, and as it states in the BRB, a power weapon can be a power axe. Terminator problem sorted?

Now I want to see an Archon with a Power Axe. :D

[eldargal]

Power axes aren't that good to be honest, you're better off shooting them or using hydra gauntlets to make them face as many saves as possible.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't get why people moan about Terminators, then again I do play Necrons, nothing is really a problem for me. :p

[Filthspew]

Can Dark Eldar not take power axes or something?

It doesnt solve the problem.

Initiative is the main defense of the DE, especially in challenges.

So I will admit that DE have problems with 2+ characters.

But the "terminators are broken" song is just exaggerated IMO.

Why not shoot the buggers, why so obsessed with AP2 cc weapons?

Pain engines are AP2.

Reavers with caltrops put a world of hurt on them, and they cant retaliate

A ravager with desintegrator cannons will rip into those terminators.

Blood brides with three shardnets, get each net in cc with two terminators or team up on the special weapons so they put down very few attacks.

Or simply outmaneuver them, pop their landraider (that is now infinitely easier to do!) and use the DE speed.

DE are about a plan so cunning you can put a tail on it and call it a weasel.

They are not about brute force.

[Krayd]

I think that the point is less that terminators are a problem and more that the 'biggest and baddest' HQs from just about any race should have access to AP2 weaponry so that they can stand toe-to-toe with kitted-out marine HQs. In the DE's case, this should certainly apply to characters like Vect, and for an Archon, should you wish to throw enough points into it.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

But they do have AP2 CC weapons, Power Axes....

[Krayd]

No eldar, under normal circumstances, should ever have to strike at I1. ;P

[Havik110]

That sounds very promising, I also hope they add some of the odd USR here and there, for example DE fliers would be prime targets for Vector Dancer and Mandrakes should really have the Daemon USR.

what do mandrakes get out of the demon rule? Terror?

they are already demons for the purposes of GKs killing them...

they need to errata a few things...1st if you want me to take mandrakes then make the decapitator an upgrade character like snikrot and drop his points...as he is he is useless...

next like you said vector dance on our fighters would be nice.

also if the demons can fly over vehicles then our reavers can 2 and 3 d6 st6 hits plus 6 d3 s4 hits is going to glance the hell out of vehicles...

FAQ Lady M...her wording sucks....

drop the points on scourges or let them take 4 weapons with 5 of them like other special weapons teams

if true born are our shooting vets let them take dissies

if blood brides are our vanguards then let each of them take weapons...

Drop the points on the Dias and dont make me take 10 models with it...

Make the court worth something...if you take lameas then the entire court gets 3+ or 2+ poison...make them an archon's retinue...

Let incubi be retinues again

Give Hemos full access to wargear and let me put my HQs back on their bikes or skyboards (especially since both have such cool models now) hemos on bikes with destructors = fun


finally if we cant assault out of the portal any more we should be able to bring our raiders out of it again...

[Krayd]

Not to mention:

How do enhanced aethersails work? During the movement phase, or the shooting phase? If during the movement phase, what is the vehicle allowed to do during the shooting phase (personally, I think that 'counts as moving at cruising speed' would be fine)

Similarly, it would be nice if chain snares could be used when moving during the shooting phase.

The court of the archon options should be changed to minimum of 0 instead of minimum of 1 each. As for making it a 'retinue', with 6th edition wound allocation, I think that might be meaningless now. Though, it would be cool at least certain members of the court (like the lhameans) counted as characters.

[Filthspew]

I think that the point is less that terminators are a problem and more that the 'biggest and baddest' HQs from just about any race should have access to AP2 weaponry so that they can stand toe-to-toe with kitted-out marine HQs.

Why?

Every race is different, thats the whole concept of the game.

And what is that makes 2+ such an impossible barrier to overcome?

Everyone else not a monster pays for ap2 with loss of initiative.

Why is that DE should retain their insane initiative and have ap2 on weapons that instant kill to stand toe to toe with marine hqs?

[eldargal]

Because the Husk Blade is priced to do exactly that, and if it doesn't, it is grossly overpriced.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Why is that DE should retain their insane initiative and have ap2 on weapons that instant kill to stand toe to toe with marine hqs?

I concur, why should my 100 points basic Space Marine Captain get jacknifed by some dirt cheap Archon?

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Because the Archon with a Husk Blade will go from Dirt Cheap, to near enough the exact same points and not come with the 4+ Invunerable save, or the S, T and the Standard 3+ of a Space Marine Captain. So it's not too unfair :P

Dark Eldar need a High Initiative AP2 weapon, because they cant take punches... They need to at least hit first, even if they dont kill :P

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You strike first, I die, how is this fair?

[Lightcavalier]

SM Captain comes with BP and CCW, 3+ armour and 4++ for 100pts
DE Archon comes with Splinter Pistol, Huskblade, 5+ armour for 95 pts

With no other wargear or effects the archon with strike at I7, hit on 3s and wound on 5s, those wounds then have a 50% chance of being ignored. If you up it to terminator armour for 140, (giving the archon combat drugs and a shadowfield to compensate) it just gets worse for the archon.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

You have a 50% chance of surviving, trust me the Husk blade is cool when it works, but being S:3 and wounding on a 5+ tend to see the Archon not be as scary as people make out (of course... I always go with Combat Drugs, but that adds to the cost). If you attack back with a powersword he's dead meat :L

Oh and it costs an Archon 25 points to get grenades... So if I attack in cover I have to be very expensive to not get my face handed to me (I presume for challenges this would matter?)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Then take a Power Axe and Shadowfield?
That's roughly the same points and would work out better for the Archon.

[Lightcavalier]

Archons come with plasma grenades....the PGL is just there for him to help out a squad.

BTW...PGLs giving defensive grenades is awesome.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Oh sorry, My mistake! True, that does work... But it's still not very reliable and as soon as the Shadow Field is gone he will die very easily and the Power Axe will be a massive disadvantage. Clone Fields in this situation could work better :P

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ah.
I was just thinking, with him wounding on a 4+ it'd be better than the Huskblade.
You could also give him a Power Spear. +1 Str, none of the initiative minuses, ignores the Captain's armour.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

True, but then we are back to the Terminator Armour situation. However, I near enough always go for Venom Weapons on pretty much everything, because... If I can hit something enough times with 2+ re-roll to wound (either through drugs or Furious charge or which ever) I am sure they have to fail sometime :L

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Rarely anyone takes Terminators anyway, well... at least in Shrewsbury.

[Filthspew]

My point was that I think its misunderstood to make the comparison in the first place.

That for the sake of fairness, a certain outfitting of an Archon needs to match a specific model and gear from another codex.

Eldargal does have a point about cost, I will admit. But the cost reflects the chance to instant kill that 300pts Hive Tyrant as well.

And 18,6% chance of making dust of that Captain before he strikes is still pretty good. Especially with the chance to get a 2++ save yourself, or ignore an average of 2 hits.

Remember that he has to buy a powerfist to instant kill back, and that is not so far from the huskblade in price.

[Skandar]

Rarely anyone takes Terminators anyway, well... at least in Shrewsbury.

Shrewsbury sounds like a truly wondrous place.

To all those talking about Archons - surely he'd be accompanied by a Farseer and/or some Harlequins? The latter should take care of terminators quite handily.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I think me and my mate Chris are the only Marine players that take them. I love shooty Terminators and Lysander, they're a team to be feared.

[Anggul]

The problem is that an Archon is now just inferior to almost any Space Marine hero and will probably get splatted by one even if he costs more points. 15pts for Artificer Armour (and most Special Characters have a 2+ armour save anyway), renders the Archon useless unless he wants to strike at I1 with a Power Axe, thus rendering the Initiative you took in return for pathetic survivability useless. An Archon with an Axe and Shadowfield will probably still lose to most other ICs. I don't mind if the Archon and Succubus go up in points in return for being able to fight other ICs, but fluffwise they should definitely be able to.

[Skandar]

So long as its not Belöl, Deathwing and Landraider spam I'm not even mad. That said I'm not entirely convinced the army is as vicious in 6th as it was in 5th.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Na man, no one does Deathwing in Shrewsbury, they get executed on sight. :D

I do the Storm Wardens, because Space Welsh are brilliant boyo. :p

[Skandar]

As only the Welsh can contain the Enslavers.

PS: I've been itching to face Deathwing with Air Cav Guard. Or Croissant frisbees.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They're not actually fighting each other, they're just slagging each other off in the pub and refusing to cross each other's borders. :p

[Skandar]

If that's what it takes to contain the menace... why the **** aren't I welsh?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Why aren't we all dude...

OT: Dark Eldar players I am going to be frank, you have the same level of weapons to remove a 2+ save that every other army does, whether that be in shooting or close combat. Why do you feel the need to have the most bent close combat weapons ever?
Tau don't, Orks don't, hell, even Nids don't have that many decent weapons.
If you want to kill Terminators then take a Power Axe, just like the rest of us.

/rant

[Skandar]

Heh true.

Honestly, ever since watching Assault Terminators carve up a Wych squad with an Agoniser in 5th, I've avoided fighting Assault Terminators like the plague. Hell they're among the most vicious CC units in the game so avoidance is the best policy for most armies.

Dark Eldar do have very effective means of dealing with ATs: Lances ruin 2+'s day. Ravagers are the best drive by gangstas since the 90s. Jetbike Reaver swarms never fail to amuse me. Hell even in melee, DE can bring some pain to ATs with Harlequin mobs (4 rending attacks on the charge). If you bring a Farseer in to the party all the merrier!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ravagers are the best drive by gangstas since the 90s. Jetbike Reaver swarms never fail to amuse me. Hell even in melee, DE can bring some pain to ATs with Harlequin mobs (4 rending attacks on the charge). If you bring a Farseer in to the party all the merrier!

HAHAHAHAHA! I laughed my *** off at that, and nearly choked on my tea. Well done.

[Krayd]

Why aren't we all dude...

OT: Dark Eldar players I am going to be frank, you have the same level of weapons to remove a 2+ save that every other army does, whether that be in shooting or close combat. Why do you feel the need to have the most bent close combat weapons ever?
Tau don't, Orks don't, hell, even Nids don't have that many decent weapons.
If you want to kill Terminators then take a Power Axe, just like the rest of us.

/rant

I don't think that it's unreasonable to want one piece of wargear that is heavily priced to do that which it is priced to do. And, as has been pointed out elsewhere, terminators aren't as much of an issue as are HQs with 2+ armor. DE are supposed to be the epitome of the glass cannon.. which means that there has to be a 'cannon' component.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

And I wish that Trazyn the Infinite's staff would work when he flies over a unit. But it may not work.
What do I do? Calmly ask GW and don't use said item until I have written confirmation from GW as to what it does.

The only decent CC weapon that my army has is a Warscythe, and I loves me some Warscythe.


I also wish that the Stormlord had a Power Weapon, he does not, meh.


Note: I'm not getting into an argument, or trying to be condescending, but we have to live with these things.

[Skandar]

I don't think that it's unreasonable to want one piece of wargear that is heavily priced to do that which it is priced to do. And, as has been pointed out elsewhere, terminators aren't as much of an issue as are HQs with 2+ armor. DE are supposed to be the epitome of the glass cannon.. which means that there has to be a 'cannon' component.

Brave Sir Rakarth ran away and whipped out a Hexrifle.

[Havik110]

Shrewsbury sounds like a truly wondrous place.

To all those talking about Archons - surely he'd be accompanied by a Farseer and/or some Harlequins? The latter should take care of terminators quite handily.

apparently everyone rolls nothing but 6s on bell outside of me...

[Skandar]

apparently everyone rolls nothing but 6s on bell outside of me...

I hear the special "Non Ld" dice works wonders.

Harlequins get 4 attacks on the charge, hitting on 3s, rending on 6s with a reroll (if Doom applies). ~0.5 rendings. If a unit of 10-20 doesn't do the trick then your dice hate you (I know the feeling. Mine hate me too).

[AnEnemy]

Your argument makes no sense. Because Necrons aren't a CC army and have poor CC weapons then DE, with half a book devoted to CC, should do the same?

Our CC units are pitiful now. We have one(two?) CC weapon in the game that will harm 2+ armor. When the majority of your CC units are now pretty pointless then something needs to change.

DE went from Assault with shooting elements to Shooting with assault elements to Shooting and no assault.

An Agonizer is one of the only ways we can get power weapons in the army. They are 20 pts. They are not worth 20 pts thanks to Sixth Edition changes to CC AP. It needs to be FAQ'd. Either reduced in cost or increased in AP. Hell, that's not even getting into the Archon options. Like the 35 pt Husk Blade that's sole purpose is to kill ICs...when most ICs will be in Terminator armor.

If you don't know what you're talking about, whats the point of talking?

[eldargal]

What are talking about?

Virtually very unit leader has the option to take a power weapon, and the fact is DE were never good at killing 2+ saves in CC anyway, when most 2+ has a 3++ behind it. God knows we do need some things adjusted via FAQ but to say DE can't be themed around assault is so erroneous it borders on the insane when you consider most of our best assault units never had power weapons to begin with.



Our CC units are pitiful now. We have one(two?) CC weapon in the game that will harm 2+ armor. When the majority of your CC units are now pretty pointless then something needs to change.
This is wrong, only archons, succubi, incubi and unit leaders could hurt most 2+ saves before anyway. Our CC units are far from useless.



DE went from Assault with shooting elements to Shooting with assault elements to Shooting and no assault.
This is wrong.


An Agonizer is one of the only ways we can get power weapons in the army. They are 20 pts. They are not worth 20 pts thanks to Sixth Edition changes to CC AP. It needs to be FAQ'd. Either reduced in cost or increased in AP. Hell, that's not even getting into the Archon options. Like the 35 pt Husk Blade that's sole purpose is to kill ICs...when most ICs will be in Terminator armor.
This is wrong. An Agoniser is one way way we get can get a power weapon in the army, or you could just take a power weapon for 10 points.:rolleyes: A PW that wounds on 4+ and ignores 3+ saves is nothing to be dismissed. It could stand to lose perhaps 5 points but if not it won't be the end of the world. The huskblade is another matter, it is grotesquely overpriced.


If you don't know what you're talking about, whats the point of talking?
Pot calling the kettle black.


If you were using CC units to take on 2+ saves before you were doing it wrong. Shooting has ALWAYS been the most efficient way of dealing with them.

[Autarch]

I totally agree with Eldar Gal. I saw someone making a similar case on DE board somewhere, and I just couldn't fathom it. The sheer amount of attacks, incredible initiative, 4++ save in CC, access to Raiders (cheap assault transport), access to grenades, combat drugs, power from pain AND they are a scoring unit?

They might not be Grey Knight paladins but hell, I'll take em everytime.

[Filthspew]

.An Agonizer is one of the only ways we can get power weapons in the army. They are 20 pts. They are not worth 20 pts thanks to Sixth Edition changes to CC AP.

Those very changes are what effectively gives DE assault primary, Wyches, a 3++ save thanks to FnP.

The Archon you feel is so inferior can face his foe with a 2++ save or ignore an average of 2 hits.

If an AP2 cc weapon is what makes it or breaks it for you, then DE are probably not the right choice.

[Anggul]

I'm not bothered that squad leaders can't ignore 2+ armour, as most DE squads win by making loads of wounds anyway. The ICs however should be able to, as an Archon or Succubus flailing pathetically at Artificer/Terminator armour, or alternatively striking really slowly (thus denying their advantage) is a bit silly.

This is for both fluff and gameplay.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

And we've come full circle for the twentieth time. Word on the street is that Dark Eldar may be FAQ'd, and some of the Dark Eldar players think they're being treated unfairly. The Tau and Eldar tut.