View Full Version : Why cant they take that? - Weapon loadouts that should be so
Levitas
09-30-2009, 06:34 AM
From a fluffy point of view, ever looked through your codex and wondered " Why cant they have that?"
An example would be marine terminators with plasma cannons. A dev marine can take one, and so can a dread? The obvious answer is that a relentless plasma cannon on a 2+save model is perhaps too good. But from a universe view it doesnt make sense. Surley it just needs one curious Techmarine with a wrecked dreadnought and a shiny new terminator suit and a bored afternoon..
And why do they place twinlinked assault cannons on rhinos and not dreads? Again, techmarines must not be that bright.
Thoughts on your dex?
Melissia
09-30-2009, 07:03 AM
Why should Space Wolves get two heavy flamers in a single squad, when Sisters can't?
Why should Sisters be able to get combi-plasmas, but not plasma guns?
Why should Dominans have to pay so much for their special weapons? There's no reason to take them at all really.
Why the crap do Multi-Meltas cost so much when they suck so bad? A tactical squad could buy a plasmagun and a lascannon for what the Sisters pay for a single multi-melta, and still have points left over afterwards.
Why can't entire squads have Sarissas, why should we pay five points to give a single reroll to an attack on a WS3/S3 model with a bolter? For that matter why is the Sarissa so weak to begin with?
Why can't close combat veterans be given close combat weapons and pistols? Close combat veterans with WS4/I4 and the ability to hit almost all targets on a 3+ regardless of the enemy's WS, and yet they are forced to always have bolters.
Why don't Sisters have bolt pistols as well as bolters? They're given almost entirely assault oriented special/heavy weapons, but then most of the squad can't assault and fire at the same time.
Why aren't Sisters in general given frag nades unless they pay for them? Even the common GUARDSMAN has them.
Etc.
Sitnam
09-30-2009, 07:11 AM
I think in the instance of the Imperium, it could the the Standard Construct Template commonly used in their weapon designs. Perhaps they tried such alteration but they would not fit? However when it comes down to it, you just have to look at the numerous Land Raider variants such as the Ares (Made by Dark Angels) and the Helios (Made by Red Scorpions). Since two chapters were able to make two brand new types of LR's, I think the only excuse to not have termi's with plasma and things of that nature is only just a rules excuse. No real fluff justification.
I myself always wondered why like every frikkin race has chainswords, and only one has rules for them.
fuzzbuket
09-30-2009, 11:20 AM
yes my question exactly why cant an inq lord (termie) take a las/bolt/needle pistol when he can command a total marine chapter?
TSINI
09-30-2009, 12:35 PM
why can't an IG sentinal have a Heavy Bolter loadout
on a similar vein, why don't space marines ever use multi-lasers...
why can't IG infantry have a Plasma Cannon Team :D - I'm actually thinking of making some of these for a fluffy apoc game, imagine the death on a "gets Hot" result
oh and also, why can't IG sergeants take lasguns, must they all be hand to hand fanatics?
and on a personal note due to my current project, why can't penal officers take power swords? "all the better for killing you with my dearies..."
nice thread
Aldramelech
09-30-2009, 12:43 PM
Why should Space Wolves get two heavy flamers in a single squad, when Sisters can't?
Why should Sisters be able to get combi-plasmas, but not plasma guns?
Why should Dominans have to pay so much for their special weapons? There's no reason to take them at all really.
Why the crap do Multi-Meltas cost so much when they suck so bad? A tactical squad could buy a plasmagun and a lascannon for what the Sisters pay for a single multi-melta, and still have points left over afterwards.
Why can't entire squads have Sarissas, why should we pay five points to give a single reroll to an attack on a WS3/S3 model with a bolter? For that matter why is the Sarissa so weak to begin with?
Why can't close combat veterans be given close combat weapons and pistols? Close combat veterans with WS4/I4 and the ability to hit almost all targets on a 3+ regardless of the enemy's WS, and yet they are forced to always have bolters.
Why don't Sisters have bolt pistols as well as bolters? They're given almost entirely assault oriented special/heavy weapons, but then most of the squad can't assault and fire at the same time.
Why aren't Sisters in general given frag nades unless they pay for them? Even the common GUARDSMAN has them.
Etc.
Fancy seeing you here! lol
Aldramelech
09-30-2009, 12:44 PM
Why are my Vets shotguns Strength 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike X
09-30-2009, 01:26 PM
Why can't a SM Commander take a flamer, or a meltagun, or a heavy bolter, or a missile launcher, or a plasmacannon?
Why can't a SM Terminator Commander take a heavy flamer, or an assault cannon, or a cyclone missile launcher?
sangrail777
09-30-2009, 01:30 PM
Blood Angels
Why do my devestators have to have long range weaponry. I want to equip them with power fist or thunder hammers, melta bombs and chainfists.
Tau
a burst cannon in a fire warrior squad, or jump packs on fire warriors
SOB
agree with melissia
Chaos
looted imperial vehicles (ok not actually a weapon)
Imperial gaurd
plasma cannon crews (good one tsini)
Aldramelech
09-30-2009, 01:34 PM
Fluff wise is Plasma not supposed to be ultra rare? Don't get me wrong, if I could Id be painting them right now! lol
At least one of my sentinels is getting one.
Drew da Destroya
09-30-2009, 01:53 PM
Blood Angels
Why do my devestators have to have long range weaponry. I want to equip them with power fist or thunder hammers, melta bombs and chainfists.
Well, that's because they're Devastators, and the Blood Angels really are a Codex Chapter, despite the Death Company's best efforts. Guilliman said that Dev's carry ranged weapons, and the Blood Angels agree.
Chaos
looted imperial vehicles (ok not actually a weapon)
I'd add Orks to this, too... we loot everything we see!
Aldramelech
09-30-2009, 02:00 PM
Bloody Orks! They dont pay any Tax you know!
Drew da Destroya
09-30-2009, 03:18 PM
Bloody Orks! They dont pay any Tax you know!
Damn right we don't! But it's mostly because you don't pay taxes on things you steal.
But the rising gas prices have really been hurting Kults of Speed recently. I heard they've been returning some of their looted Hummers because they just can't afford to fill the tank.
TSINI
09-30-2009, 04:22 PM
Fluff wise is Plasma not supposed to be ultra rare? Don't get me wrong, if I could Id be painting them right now! lol
At least one of my sentinels is getting one.
yeah plasma is rare, but only because its old.
the fluff behind my guys is they are on an old rich planet. the Tsar of the planet is a great admirer of plasma technology, and rich enough to aquire it. so i figure, lets go plasma mad, executioners, Stormblades, yeehaaw!
oh and i can personally recommend the plasma sentinel
firstly, space marine squads beware of the melty goodness, and secondly, the tried and tested "Armoured Sentinel Assault Tactic" infantry can't kill them, the armour 12 puts them in the VERY hard to kill bracket and being walkers, the enemy always assaults the front armour. they can tie up enemy assault units for ages! entire games even!
entendre_entendre
09-30-2009, 06:58 PM
why does my daemon prince only have a CCW?!? a master of the warp takes a random piece of metal to battle while some young usurper takes the essence of a captured bloodthirster!
also, why can't infantry squad commissars take power fists?
Firaya
09-30-2009, 08:03 PM
Why can't Space Marines carry pocket knives? Was the old Legions' fighting loadout of a bolter, a bolt pistol and a CCW ineffective in Guilliman's eyes? :rolleyes:
Poor Space Marines have to break a can of tuna with their bare fists :p
L192837465
10-01-2009, 09:37 AM
My biggest complaints:
A predator can mount a twin linked lascannon, but alternatively can only take a single autocannon that is no different from one carried by a trooper? Yet the guard have the executioner which is better in all respects for cheaper?
Why can't you fire ordinance into your own combats?
TSINI
10-01-2009, 11:38 AM
Why can't you fire ordinance into your own combats?
THIS
in fact at a tourney on the weekend, when my conscripts had died, and i opened fire with heavy bolters on the enemy squad that had finished them off. we decided that the bolters had probably wiped out the last conscripts "enemy at the gates" style.
but yeah, i may have to try to get a few friendly games with "shooting into combats allowed" all you'd need is a special rule
either, 4+ enemy unit, 1,2or 3 and it hits your unit
or, when you're rolling to hit, if you hit, it hits the enemy unit, if you miss, it hits your own unit (i like this one) :D
also they should bring back the "place blast anywhere" rule, where it doesn't have to be placed on a guys head
sangrail777
10-01-2009, 01:06 PM
[QUOTE=Drew da Destroya;23502]Well, that's because they're Devastators, and the Blood Angels really are a Codex Chapter, despite the Death Company's best efforts. Guilliman said that Dev's carry ranged weapons, and the Blood Angels agree.
Ok I get this idea actually from a Blood Ravens novel i read. It mentions a scene where a squad of devestators are armed with power fist cuz they are fighting in a starships hallway alongside a Librarian against some envading demons. I don't remeber which book it was. But the idea sounded intresting. Weather the Blood Angels are a codex chapter or not is a seperate issue.(let the ultramarines praise Guillimans book) How many codex chapters you know have there own codex? Even if mine is just a few scraps of paper in a white dwarf issue. They have varients to there codex so whats wrong with one more.
Your right about adding the orks of course.
Imperial Gaurd Ruff Riders mounted on motorcycles instead of horses. Fluff wise could easy be said they come from hive bike gangs/cults. I converted 18 of these guys from cadians and space marine bikes.
Gotthammer
10-01-2009, 01:44 PM
Weather the Blood Angels are a codex chapter or not is a seperate issue.(let the ultramarines praise Guillimans book) How many codex chapters you know have there own codex?
They are a Codex Chapter - they have ten companies of ten - one Veteran, four battle, four reserve and one scout company. The only variance is the Death Company, and given its variable size it's not a big variance (or a full company really).
Deathwing and Ravenwing are bigger changes to the structure but the Dark Angels are Codex Approved (who also have their own Codex).
Drew da Destroya
10-01-2009, 02:24 PM
Gotthammer beat me to it. I meant literally the Codex Astartes, as written by Guilliman after the Heresy. Not the real-world book Codex: Space Marines. The Blood Angels as a Chapter follow the Codex, and any mention of Devastators using power fists should really just be seen as creative liscence on the part of the author.
While I'd love to see the Blood Angels break away from the Codex and do their own thing, it would fly in the face of their established fluff pretty badly (and GW seems to be a bit more hesitant with blatant, massive retconning these days). Furthermore, we already have a few "assault all the time" playable chapters... Black Templars, Space Wolves, White Scars, Raven Guard...
Levitas
10-01-2009, 07:37 PM
I totally agree with the predator thing too. But then i also want a space marine punisher... :) raaaaaarp.
greenstuff777
05-17-2010, 09:16 PM
dark angel terminators according to one of the Dark Angel books have plasma cannon
murrburger
05-17-2010, 11:13 PM
Terminators can't take Plasma Cannons because they were originally for boarding actions (Space Hulk). Thus, all their weapons are for relatively close quarters.
On the Marines with knives, I've always worked under the fact that all Marines have combat knives/bayonets/rifle butt, but they aren't as effective as a chainsword or combat blade, so don't give you the extra attack.
What I hate are that Tac squads can't take any special or heavy weapons until they're 10 men strong.
And If I started talking about DA, we'd be here all night...
wittdooley
05-18-2010, 04:46 AM
Tac Squads should be able to take a heavy flamer. Guard can, but Astartes can't? Come on....
The Mighty Git
05-18-2010, 05:08 AM
Of all the heavy weapons available to marines, why no man portable autocannons? They give up a shot compared to a heavy bolter but add some distance, and the look cool. Why can't Guard Chimeras and Russ' take autocannons like in Gunheads? I know its a 5 pt. upgrade for a Chimera in Imp. Armour, but why not for the Russ on the forward hull mount? I was going to do it anyway with a 5 pt upgrade, but say counts as heavy bolter if anyone makes noise. While I'm ranting, why are Blood Angel techs the only ones capable of building hand flamers? I probably have more but I've been up since 4 and can't process any more coherent thoughts at the moment.
The Git
The_Ancient
05-18-2010, 07:02 AM
this thread is pretty funny never heard such pathetic whinging in all my life
except guard bikers that would rock!!!
Melissia
05-18-2010, 08:55 AM
this thread is pretty funny never heard such pathetic whinging in all my life
Then you should read the bolter and chainsword's threads every time a new codex is released. "Why don't Space Marines have that?!?" is a fairly common question. People whining about how Marines need Chimeras, people whining about how Marines need Leman Russ tanks, people whining about how Marines need Basilisks, people whining about how Marines need Exorcists, people whining about how Marines need Valkyries, people whining about how Marines need Railguns, people whining about how Marines should get a loyalist Defiler version, people whining about how Marines need grav-tanks, people whining about... well, if another army has it and Marines don't, people whine about how Marines should have it. Especially if it's an Imperial army.
Same goes for just about every marine-centric forum, it's just the BnC is one of the bigger ones.
TSINI
05-18-2010, 10:31 AM
Terminators can't take Plasma Cannons because they were originally for boarding actions (Space Hulk). Thus, all their weapons are for relatively close quarters.
On the Marines with knives, I've always worked under the fact that all Marines have combat knives/bayonets/rifle butt, but they aren't as effective as a chainsword or combat blade, so don't give you the extra attack.
What I hate are that Tac squads can't take any special or heavy weapons until they're 10 men strong.
And If I started talking about DA, we'd be here all night...
Still, i think a plasma cannon applied directly to the face would be pretty effective at close quarters...
The Mighty Git
05-18-2010, 01:39 PM
Still, i think a plasma cannon applied directly to the face would be pretty effective at close quarters...
Haha! Yes it would. Just rapid fire it till it starts to overheat and then huck it like a large grenade.
I also agree with Melissa. If all the armies had the same gear it would suck. The game would be reduced to who has better dice rolls period. The challenge is to pick your army, and figure out how to use the gear available to you effectively. But autocannons rock and Marines should be able to carry them around :p
Melissia
05-18-2010, 04:56 PM
Baneblades are cool, too, and Sisters should have one as a giant mobile shrine with a melta weapon the size of a tank. But alas, we don't.
TSINI
05-18-2010, 05:40 PM
Haha! Yes it would. Just rapid fire it till it starts to overheat and then huck it like a large grenade.
I also agree with Melissa. If all the armies had the same gear it would suck. The game would be reduced to who has better dice rolls period. The challenge is to pick your army, and figure out how to use the gear available to you effectively. But autocannons rock and Marines should be able to carry them around :p
Do you think modelling a guardsman firing an autocannon "on the move" as demonstrated by Sgt. John Basilone in "Pacific" would look massively unbalanced? :D
The Mighty Git
05-18-2010, 06:16 PM
Do you think modelling a guardsman firing an autocannon "on the move" as demonstrated by Sgt. John Basilone in "Pacific" would look massively unbalanced? :D
Probably, but hang a half dozen or so ammo drums on his back as a counterweight. :p I dunno, couldn't look more unbalanced than a Necromunda heavy with a lascannon. I guess it would depend on whether he was trying to fire the heavy weapon team version or the little one off of a sentinel. Might have to build one just to see what that wouldlook like. Thought about using an Orlock heavy to convert a Harker for my Cadians.
Melissia
05-18-2010, 06:35 PM
Keep in mind that there ARE lascannons and autocannons designed ot be man-portable. The Guard just uses heavier versions.
Nabterayl
05-18-2010, 06:47 PM
Are there man-portable autocannons, in the sense of a 48" S7 AP4 heavy 2 autocannon? I'm blanking on examples.
EDIT: Actually, define what you mean by "man-portable?" Do you mean "can be carried by a single man" or "can be fired by a single man from a standing position without supporting equipment?" Because the autocannons depicted in the Cadian and Catachan boxes clearly fit the first definition, but not the second.
Melissia
05-18-2010, 06:57 PM
The second example. Sort of a light autocannon. It's used by gangers along with heavy stubbers in their battles against arbites, enforcers, and etc, and by planetary enforcers (local police basically) in THEIR wars against the gangers.
Nabterayl
05-18-2010, 07:28 PM
Oh, the Necromunda autocannon? I don't think those are necessarily different from Guard-issue (different models in some cases, presumably, but not different enough to be treated differently on the tabletop). A ganger can't move and shoot a Necromunda A/C, even though a single ganger can shoot one, and Necromunda doesn't have rules for firing stances, does it? I mean, a single guardsman can clearly fire an autocannon, even though he cannot move or shoot at the same time. And the relative strength of the Necromunda autocannon seems about right, as well as the relative range.
Tynskel
05-18-2010, 08:25 PM
Heheh, I use the necromunda autocannon- my favorite gun in that game. Relic rules of the 2nd Edition days...
The autocannon in necromunda is essentially the Guard Autocannon. One crew member carries it- the 'heavy'. And heavies are brutes! Even then, Nab's right, they cannot scoot n' shoot.
Also, current guard hv weapons are 'two wounds'-- essentially two guys-- if one gets shot, the gun still works- the poor sod has to carry everything him/herself!
Melissia
05-18-2010, 08:55 PM
I was actually referring to the civilian autocannon in the Dark Heresy supplements...
Anything civilian-grade can be covered by the Dark Heresy rules, heh.
Hugz4Genestealers
05-18-2010, 09:17 PM
Are there man-portable autocannons, in the sense of a 48" S7 AP4 heavy 2 autocannon? I'm blanking on examples.
Gaunt's Ghost novels, "Try Again" Bragg is mentioned on multiple occasions as having toted around an autocannon(two even, at one point, if memory serves)
Nabterayl
05-18-2010, 09:31 PM
Gaunt's Ghost novels, "Try Again" Bragg is mentioned on multiple occasions as having toted around an autocannon(two even, at one point, if memory serves)
That's true, but if you read more closely you'll see that those are not "autocannons" in the 48" S7 AP4 heavy 2 sense. The tabletop "autocannon" is something along the lines of a 25mm or 30mm autocannon like a Bushmaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M242) - it's significantly more powerful than a heavy bolter, remember, and its rate of fire suffers as a result, but you can (and should) use it to take out light armored vehicles.
As used in the Ghosts novels, an "autocannon" is a medium squad support weapon that fires a small-caliber shell [or possibly a bullet] with a high rate of fire. They're mentioned several times being mounted on bipods, and at one point Colm Corbec carries one and comes across a single trooper loaded with three thousand rounds of ammunition for it, carried on bandoleers - enough, Colm estimates, for a few minutes' sustained firing, which indicates a rate of fire somewhere between 500 and 1000 rounds per minute. For a single man to carry three thousand rounds of anti-tank cannon rounds on bandoleers is ridiculous; that's well over half a ton of ammunition even assuming the magazines themselves don't weigh an ounce. It's also ridiculous for an anti-tank weapon to need a machine gun's rate of fire, and the Ghosts never use their autocannons in an anti-vehicle role.
All this points to the Ghosts' autocannon being essentially a heavy or medium stubber that fires explosive ammunition (well, perhaps - if it doesn't, then the Ghosts' "autocannon" is in fact just a machine gun by another name). Yes, it's correct to describe it as an "autocannon," in that it's an automatic weapon that fires a shell rather than a solid bullet, but they're very different weapons.
EDIT: The Inquisitor's Handbook "autocannon" does seem very like the codex autocannons (in fact I would say it's meant to be the codex autocannon; I disagree with Mel that everything DH is the "civilian" version by default by virtue of being included in DH), but I'm not sure I would agree that it can be fired from an unsupported standing position. The rules may allow that, but the write-up clearly describes it as a crew-served weapon that weighs 120 pounds, meaning it would be harder to hold that weapon in an unsupported standing position than it would be to hold an M2 Browning. I assume it's fairly uncontroversial that Ma Deuce is not to be fired from that position?
Sitnam
05-18-2010, 10:17 PM
Speaking of, it's always irked me that heavy stubbers aren't available to IG. I'd think they'd make a nice, cheap addition to the special weapons list. Fluffy too.
Nabterayl
05-18-2010, 10:22 PM
Holy cow, I just noticed that they can't. You're right ... that should totally be a mortar sidegrade.
Sitnam
05-19-2010, 12:26 AM
Yeah. The Vraks books allow them to be taken by Krieg Heavy Weapons squads (TL version) and Grenadiers aswell as the renegades, but they are horribly expensive for what they are. Which is a shame given the fact that a heavy stubber will resemble a real life infantry squad more then any other special weapon. Also, back onto Marines and autocannons, we do know the CSM have manportable autocannons in addition to TL variety for termies.
murrburger
05-19-2010, 06:37 AM
I'm not a big fan of Dan Abnett. I feel that he makes humans TOO 'badass'... sometimes to a Space Marine level. (Which has gotten even worse in the newest codex, mind you.) Also, given the huge variation in BL quality, I wouldn't use it as a base for anything in the main game.
I feel that Chaos should have the autocannon, and loyalists shouldn't. It really gives them more of a non-codex astartes feel, and is probably as close as you can get if you want to do a Pre Heresy army.
On a side note, I'd like to see robots make a return.
Old_Paladin
05-19-2010, 07:48 AM
The Gaunt series does use the term autocannon too often to discribe different weapons.
Often it does mean either a .30 or .50 crew serviced support weapon.
However, with 'Try Again' it is occasionally discribed as a heavier, lower rate of fire, drum fed weapon; with his loader only able to carry four or five drums of ammo.
I also found it odd that loyalist Marines stopped using autocannons.
It made sense that they were used with terminators and dreadnoughts (which are said to be test beds for heavy weapon systems); and that when new better weapons came along (assault cannons) that the autocannon systems were dropped.
But, why drop it from infanty squads? There is no weapon that replaced it. It's is a much easier technology to build and maintain (heavy bolters and plasma cannons are still used; but you'd think plasma would fade over time, not light AT cannons).
murrburger
05-19-2010, 07:52 AM
'Cause Guilleman decreed it, and thus, it was so.
:rolleyes:
Melissia
05-19-2010, 08:49 AM
EDIT: The Inquisitor's Handbook "autocannon" does seem very like the codex autocannons (in fact I would say it's meant to be the codex autocannon; I disagree with Mel that everything DH is the "civilian" version by default by virtue of being included in DH), but I'm not sure I would agree that it can be fired from an unsupported standing position. The rules may allow that, but the write-up clearly describes it as a crew-served weapon that weighs 120 pounds, meaning it would be harder to hold that weapon in an unsupported standing position than it would be to hold an M2 Browning. I assume it's fairly uncontroversial that Ma Deuce is not to be fired from that position?
It's not supposed to be no, but it's able to be from a sufficiently strong person. And a simple bipod attachment can make it work quite easily. It's also kinda described as much heavier than the M2 Browning. Which, by the way, is only 83 pounds.
Nabterayl
05-19-2010, 11:13 AM
It's also kinda described as much heavier than the M2 Browning. Which, by the way, is only 83 pounds.
Yes, I know. Maybe I'm naive here, but I can't see anybody firing an 83 pound M2 from an unsupported standing position, and thus, I can't see anybody firing a 120-pound autocannon from an unsupported standing position either.
Add in variables like other firing stances and/or support and of course a single person could fire it, but that's not surprising.
Old_Paladin
05-19-2010, 11:38 AM
Does anyone have the Black Library Infantryman's Uplifting Primer handy?
I'm sure a read the section about proper methods of use for crew serviced weapons, and a small note about a guardsman that grabbed a whole autocannon, tripod and all, and used it as a free-held weapon; including a note about him winning a medal for his actions and his courtmartial for improper use of a deployed heavy weapon.
As a side note; John Basilone used a model 1917 free hand; and it weights over 100 pounds when fully deployed (and would have been around 50 lbs. for him without the tripod). So I bet a world class weightlifter or equivilent could carry a much heavier weapon.
Melissia
05-19-2010, 12:36 PM
Well, I think it's intended to be fired from a bipod or tripod.
Nabterayl
05-19-2010, 12:41 PM
Sure. Of course an autocannon can be fired by one man from a bipod or tripod.
Melissia
05-19-2010, 12:51 PM
And one man of great strength can fire (inaccurately) an autocannon from the hip. Heh.
There IS a specific "man-portable lascannon" (exact words IIRC) however.
Nabterayl
05-19-2010, 12:53 PM
And one man of great strength can fire (inaccurately) an autocannon from the hip. Heh.
Well, sure. But that's not what we've been discussing. We've been discussing whether one man can fire an autocannon from the shoulder, without resting the autocannon on an external object or supporting it with a monopod, bipod, tripod, or the like.
Melissia
05-19-2010, 12:58 PM
Technically speaking, we're talking about "why can't [faction name] take [equipment name]"...
I'd love to see stats for what the man-portable lascannon would be in tabletop stats. Would be cool to have a (comparitively cheap) heavy weapons squad of Guardsmen equipped with those. Perhaps three of them in a Veterans squad, four in a CCS/PCS...
Nabterayl
05-19-2010, 01:04 PM
I think the stats for a man-portable lascannon are 48" S9 AP2 heavy 1. The MP lascannon is "built for war," and "require separate power packs, which is why they are often crewed by two or more people." Judging by the codex and model range, two men is sufficient to carry around a lascannon and its ammunition. Seems like the same weapon to me.
Melissia
05-19-2010, 01:09 PM
I think the stats for a man-portable lascannon are 48" S9 AP2 heavy 1. The MP lascannon is "built for war," and "require separate power packs, which is why they are often crewed by two or more people." Judging by the codex and model range, two men is sufficient to carry around a lascannon and its ammunition. Seems like the same weapon to me.
Doesn't seem like it to me. One person can carry an MP lascannon and ammunition for enough shots for the average anti-tank confrontation quite well...
Gotthammer
05-19-2010, 01:09 PM
Short Range: 0-20"
Long Range: 20-60"
Str: 9
Damage: 2D6
Save mod: -6
heavy 2", slow
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/40k/1117_md-Artwork2C20Copyright20Games.jpg
Melissia
05-19-2010, 01:12 PM
Rogue Trader / Second Edition stats are reaaaaaaally unhelpful :P
Tynskel
05-19-2010, 01:13 PM
Sweet!
The man-portable lascannon has very few shots. Not good for protracted engagements. However, it is small enough to be relocated quickly.
Nabterayl
05-19-2010, 01:24 PM
Doesn't seem like it to me. One person can carry an MP lascannon and ammunition for enough shots for the average anti-tank confrontation quite well...
Well, the weight of ammunition in Dark Heresy has never really been satisfactory, and the rules say as much. The 10% rule cannot be right in all cases - there's no possible way that 8 bolt pistol rounds weigh only 350 grams, for instance. So I don't know it's fair to say that a lascannon charge pack only weighs 5.5 kg. And in any case, the rulebook comes right out and says that the need for separate power packs is the reason MP lascannons are often crewed by two or more people - i.e., dedicated ammo bearers are desirable.
But even so, one Imperial Guardsman can plainly carry and fire a tabletop lascannon at least for the duration of a seven-turn battle (which would include at the most what, 7 shots? 14?); otherwise, heavy weapons teams wouldn't be W2, or the heavy weapon would be lost when the first wound was taken. And we know that MP lascannons are not civilian weapons, because a civilian weapon cannot, by definition, be "built for war." So the two weapons still seem to match.
Tynskel
05-19-2010, 01:36 PM
I believe the Lascannon power pack is backback operated, and the power packs that are backpacks are 20-40 kg.
Unfortunately, my book is at my brother's house, so I cannot verify the page number.
BuFFo
05-19-2010, 10:22 PM
Because the rules say so. :P
DarkLink
05-20-2010, 06:53 AM
Blood Angels
Why do my devestators have to have long range weaponry. I want to equip them with power fist or thunder hammers, melta bombs and chainfists.
Because then they'd be a Vanguard Squad;).
Sitnam
05-20-2010, 09:28 AM
Another thing that baffles me: the relative rarity of the Multilaser. Squads can take lascannons, but only chimera and sentinel can take multilas? Their role does kind of interfere with that of the heavy bolter, but if a lascannon is infantry compatible then I see no reason a multilas isn't.
Force21
05-20-2010, 02:42 PM
Another thing that baffles me: the relative rarity of the Multilaser. Squads can take lascannons, but only chimera and sentinel can take multilas? Their role does kind of interfere with that of the heavy bolter, but if a lascannon is infantry compatible then I see no reason a multilas isn't.
Yeah Multi-Lasers should be a option for heavy weapon teams...& same thing with heavy stubbers...
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