GW store firing casuals and closing Sundays - Why?

[Daemonette666]

I heard for a fairly reliable source, who shall remain nameless, that GW UK is firing it's casual staff and closing it's stores on Sundays and Mondays in their stores outside of shopping centres. With GW relocating many of their stores out side of shopping centres, and Sundays being a normally busy day for their stores, is this not like shooting themselves in the foot?

I heard that they would likely be doing this internationally. In most stores this would mean they have one, perhaps 2 staff members to do everything. sell to new customers, run demonstration games, restock the shelves, and stock take, as well as run the intermittent games for their different gaming systems. Answering a rules question, while trying to sell a starter box set to a new customer, and then having to go to the till to complete a purchase for a regular costumer, while a group of unknown teenagers who are behaving strangely almost like shop lifters would be so stressful to the store manager. GW would have lots of stock go missing, and have to lock it all up stop the thieves. This would cost money, which is what they are trying to avoid, Full time staff members would be run off their feet, and their stress levels may cause staff to take time off, leaving the stores closed.

Now the source of this rumour is generally reliable, and I overheard the person telling it to one of the staff, members, so I expect it to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me Slaanesh.

If it is true, then Local gaming stores that have gaming tables to play on, and local gaming clubs are going to have massive boosts in their sales, and attendance form gamers. This will also mean the old GW method for getting new customers. I.E. mums and dads bring their kids in to look at the nice painted figurines because the kid whinges they want to look at them. Then the GW staff bait and hook (sell and up-sell) their products to the parents /kids. This will have less effect impact than it used to, because the store will be closed on one of the days when most new customers come into the store, and because they have less time to sell to new customers.

Let us hope GW is not doing this, and the rumour is not true, because it could mean GW is only helping other companies who produce games like Warmachine/ hordes, Dystopian wars, etc.

[eldargal]

Assuming it is true, remember that GW are the ones with the sales data, if they think they can sacrifice sundays and mondays they are in a better position to know than us. Also remember that retail is very weak in most developed economies right now, dropping casual staff and limiting hours to save costs is not necessarily a bad move. Better than cutting permanent stuff and closing shops.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Well, I know for FACT that GW Shrewsbury now closes on Mondays and Tuesdays, it's a two-man store and those two days are the quietest, the store loses money and to stop the loss of jobs it now closes on those two days instead.

Obviously the economic downturn is affecting GW.

[DrLove42]

News to me that GW even have casual staff anymore. I thought all the staff were in the management schemefor training or is that just my store?

I can understand Monday closure. Visit a GW on a weekday that isnt djring school holidays and tjeir business can be measured in single figures some times.

[Wolfshade]

Assuming it is true, remember that GW are the ones with the sales data, if they think they can sacrifice sundays and mondays they are in a better position to know than us. Also remember that retail is very weak in most developed economies right now, dropping casual staff and limiting hours to save costs is not necessarily a bad move. Better than cutting permanent stuff and closing shops.

^^This.

While I would agree with some of your points, for a lot of people the only reason why they got into wargaming is through a GW store. In my vicinity for instance, there are 3 GWs within 10 miles and 5 independent retailers, of those retailers none have a gaming board and so rely on existing players for their revenue.

[StraightSilver]

This isn't just isolated to GW stores, certainly in the UK all retailers are cutting back on their staff.

On a Profit and Loss document the easiest way to recoup money from lost sales is to make staff cuts, or to stop overtime etc.

It is normally considered a tad extreme to close the store completely, but as GW is primarily a destination store it won't affect them that much.

Bear in mind that Sunday working hours mean a store in the UK is only allowed to trade for 6 hours, but has the same costs for that day, so closing the store on a Sunday doesn't lose a whole day's sales.

AFAIK most UK GW stores are closed Mondays and Tuesdays so that they no longer have to employ key time or casual staff, as these would have normally covered days off, whereas all staff now have Monday and Tuesday.

This may well be different in other countries or even parts of the UK but it really is the only way GW will be able to keep in retail.

Bear in mind they have been doing this for 30 years, they are one of the only retailers in the UK turning a profit and are in it for the long haul.

They don't make decisions to upset their customer base despite what people may believe, and want to be in this market for a long time yet.

I hate to say it but in the current economic climate you may find indie stores will have to start to diversify their market to stay in the game, or might also have to start cutting staff to cover their costs.

[Mr Mystery]

Reliable sources unreliable.

Sundays are beginners days. Saturday's are event days. Monday and Tuesday closing makes more sense, as it allows most stores to be fully staffed at all times.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Reliable sources unreliable.

Sundays are beginners days. Saturday's are event days. Monday and Tuesday closing makes more sense, as it allows most stores to be fully staffed at all times.

Yep, that's exactly what's happening here.

[Daemonette666]

One of our newly relocated stores - at Liverpool NSW - is closed on Sunday and Monday. It is now a lot smaller than what it used to be when it was located in the shopping centre. Maybe this is an Australian thing only then?

[UnionJackal]

Oddly enough my local store (Loughborough) has gone the other way- Sundays are now gaming days, with the store opening 4pm-7pm for games. It's shut Monday and Tuesday, but it's been that way for a while- since it became a one-man store. Sunday tends to be one of the busier days as a consequence.

[RGilbert26]

Actually StraightSilver that is incorrect, the 6 hour trading liimit depends on the size of your store/stock. My local GW is open for 8 hours on a Sunday.

[Wolfshade]

Actually StraightSilver that is incorrect, the 6 hour trading liimit depends on the size of your store/stock. My local GW is open for 8 hours on a Sunday.

I was about to say that, some of the smaller ones are small enough that they may be exempt from the opening hours. There are other "legalities" that can be used, for instance a store may be open but cannot sell outside of those times, this is most commonly seen in Ikea where some are now opening an hour before you can buy anything

[Learn2Eel]

One of our newly relocated stores - at Liverpool NSW - is closed on Sunday and Monday. It is now a lot smaller than what it used to be when it was located in the shopping centre. Maybe this is an Australian thing only then?

No dude, Liverpool NSW closes on Mondays and Tuesdays, not Sundays.
I'm not exactly sure it is smaller than it used to be, I can't remember too well as I didn't actually go the one in the shopping centre that often.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No dude, Liverpool NSW closes on Mondays and Tuesdays, not Sundays.

Hah, wrong information is wrong. xD

[Learn2Eel]

Haha not trying to be picky or anything, just happens to be my regular store, and to see it mentioned makes me sit up and take notice lol.

On that note actually, they've scaled back their hours; it used to be like 10am to 6pm on most Weekdays, now it is mostly an 11am open and 5pm close.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No one here is from Salop, so I have to do all the talking about it. :p

[Learn2Eel]

I don't even know where Salop is :D

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It's the other name for Shropshire. :D

Shrewsbury, birthplace of Darwin, what a gent.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

My local store is hiring! For what it's worth! (But it's a pretty big one).

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Where do you live?

[Wolfshade]

Haha not trying to be picky or anything, just happens to be my regular store, and to see it mentioned makes me sit up and take notice lol.

On that note actually, they've scaled back their hours; it used to be like 10am to 6pm on most Weekdays, now it is mostly an 11pm open and 5pm close.

Not to be picky but opening 11pm to 5pm is 18 hours, which is longer than 8 hours ;)

I don't have anything to say about Liverpool opening hours, it is quite a way away from me and I sha'n't be visiting any time soon :(

[Daemonette666]

TDA, you sound like one of those spoilt brats who likes to make fun of everyone else, because he want to be in the popular group at school. That was just such a lame a reply from you.

So I have not been to the Liverpool shop for ages, and forgot its opening hours, who really cares. The whole point of this post was to find out if the rumour was true or not. I was concerned that GW were doing something even sillier, than they have done before. Something that might just ruin things for the gaming community overall.

[StraightSilver]

Ah no worries, I didn't think any GWs were small enough to be exempt from the Sunday trading law (less than 280 square meters), you guys must have some tiny stores. :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't have anything to say about Liverpool opening hours, it is quite a way away from me and I sha'n't be visiting any time soon
I like the Birming'nam store, the guys in there are cool.

When you're next in you should ask about the guys from Shrewsbury, we end up going to GW every time we visit. :)


TDA, you sound like one of those spoilt brats who likes to make fun of everyone else, because he want to be in the popular group at school. That was just such a lame a reply from you.
OUCH! That sounded like a bite.

[Learn2Eel]

TDA, you sound like one of those spoilt brats who likes to make fun of everyone else, because he want to be in the popular group at school. That was just such a lame a reply from you.

So I have not been to the Liverpool shop for ages, and forgot its opening hours, who really cares. The whole point of this post was to find out if the rumour was true or not. I was concerned that GW were doing something even sillier, than they have done before. Something that might just ruin things for the gaming community overall.

Woah dude, take it easy.
Liverpool NSW has no casuals, and looking around I see that casuals aren't that common anymore.
You might be right but I seriously doubt that GW would close on Sundays; that is most definitely prime-time for a lot of stores.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Power2Learn2Eel.
You sir are a legend.

[woodenronin]

The GW store here in ST.Louis is closed on Monday and Tuesday. It has been since it opened in April. And it has like 2 employees. It is very small. 2 tables. 1 is set up for a paint station. I can not even get in there to play.

[Psychosplodge]

Well, I know for FACT that GW Shrewsbury now closes on Mondays and Tuesdays, it's a two-man store and those two days are the quietest, the store loses money and to stop the loss of jobs it now closes on those two days instead.

Obviously the economic downturn is affecting GW.

Yeah I know of a couple doing this, and just having a couple of staff that do 40hours each...


Ah no worries, I didn't think any GWs were small enough to be exempt from the Sunday trading law (less than 280 square meters), you guys must have some tiny stores. :)


I think most are less than 280square metres, 280 square feet maybe?

[Wolfshade]

280 sq m is only 16mx16m,

but don't forget emergency legislation was passed stipulating that Sunday Trading Laws will be suspended by the government during the Olympics and Paralympics

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yep. My Geordie mate Ian has to work from 6.30am until 6.30pm on Sundays or some bollocks, only during the Olympics though.

[Psychosplodge]

I know, but some are really small. like 4-5m wide and only 10-15 deep...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

GW Crewe is teeny.

[Psychosplodge]

True, but worse it's in crewe...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

True. Crewe is a bad place.

It's terrible if I fall asleep on the way to work, because then I'll end up in Crewe. :/
That is reason enough to stay as awake as possible.

[Wolfshade]

If Crewe is so bad why do *all* the trains go through it?

By all the trains, I mean all the trains that go through crewe obvs.

[Psychosplodge]

Cause they used to make them? And it's at a point where several lines from different directions converge to go somewhere else.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It is unfortunately a thoroughfare, just like Shrewsbury, but Shrewsbury is obviously FAR superior. :p

(Yes I'm blowing my own town's trumpet, what of it?)

[Psychosplodge]

But saying something is better than crewe isn't much of anything though is it? because everything is better than crewe...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Except Kidsgrove. Specifically Attwood Rise in Kidsgrove.

[Psychosplodge]

Wouldn't know, never been.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I could show you some REALLY rough areas, our company does work for Guinness Northern Counties who own a ton of properties, I've been to most of them and they're largely full of drunks or crackheads. FACT.

[Psychosplodge]

I was in a cherry picker on a site in Glasgow, and the staff on site warned us to expect to be shot at by air rifle from the neighbouring flats.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

That doesn't surprise me. :p
I left a van in Liverpool locked for like 5 minutes to grab a drink and the windows were smashed by the time I had come back. WINNING.

[Psychosplodge]

That's winning?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah, they managed to steal a magazine. /sarcasm

[Psychosplodge]

Epic achievement there

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I know man, they should be proud.

[Wolfshade]

Need an hat

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No, I need a new magazine... I can't even remember what it was. xD

[Psychosplodge]

Do not make hats achievement easy to get, you'll devalue them

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Wolf, if you don't wear a hat all the time then I am disappointed.

[Wolfshade]

My hat
http://www.next.co.uk/content/COMMON/Items/Default/Default/Publications/X50/shotview/2746/782-158-X50s.jpg

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Looks like the Gruffalo.

[magickbk]

Not to be accused of going back on topic, but...

Here in Philadelphia the GW went from being a large store in a mall with 6 tables and a painting bar to a tiny store with 2 tables and a tiny paint station. The new store is only open from 2 in the afternoon until 9, and is closed Mondays and Tuesdays. The old store was near a few major highways, and was roughly easy to get to from most of the region. The new store is in a congested area with only 1 significant road. I used to go to the old store a few times a month to play and paint. I went to the new store 3 times in 2 years and then stopped going entirely. The time to get to the store from where I lived went from an hour to an hour and a half.

They may not have to pay as much to run that store now, but I have to think that the drop in business will more than offset the cost savings, given that their old players who used to travel down there every week opened their own independent an hour away in the suburbs.

[Wolfshade]

It is quite strange how things change, the GW in Birmingham went from being next door to a alternative market, with 3 tables (or 2 tables and a painting area), to being in a very prominent position within a new (re)development which was a two table, open-fronted affair (I think that that was a 1 man shop) to now being back twards where it used to be, though slightly further away (oposite side of an island), near a forbidden planet with more space then ever before.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Forbidden Planet is an epic shop. :D

GW Shrewsbury used to be down by the river, now it's by Goldsmiths in the centre of town. Then the upstairs area was closed due to H+S Regulations.

[Mr Mystery]

Gw Tunbridge Wells moved about 3 years ago, from outside the Shopping Centre to opposite Tescos, occupying a former Christian Bookshop. Bigger shop, cheaper rent.

[alshrive]

GW leics has always been in the location it currently is! it is very close to a forbidden planet as is also equidistant between McDonalds and the Local Wetherspoons! Is it is of a moderate size and i find it a very acceptable place.

Loughborough is a tiny store that is also a heat trap that will cause your skin to melt off during the summer months! This is made worse by the potential body odours that such heats can genereate!

My Two Pence,

ALShrive

[Wolfshade]

This has got me thinking about store locations http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?p=223110

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I read that and went "I would comment, but I've ranted about Shrews enough".

[Cenotaph]

I dont understand whats the problem?

In germany Sundays all shops are closed. And GW stores on sundays and mondays. Ever since.
Most of the GW stores are 1-man driven and all works fine?

[Psychosplodge]

Basicly it sounds like they're bringing the uk into line with global policy then?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

In England they used to be open 7 days a week, so for it to change suddenly to a 5 day week is a bit surprising.

[Cenotaph]

I understand that. But I wont take this too serious or concerning. Like I said, over here it is usual since GW got Stores in germany. And thats for 17 years now, I believe, maybe 15.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

True, but us Brits are a negative lot. :D

[Cenotaph]

:D ahh, and I thought it were international rule and knowledge that this is "our" role... ^^

[Zer0DarkFire]

Our local GW (springfield, VA) just relocated to a new store. Both this one and the last one were both in shopping centers instead of a mall. The store only has the one employee and is closed on Mondays and Tuesdays, also, since there is only one employee, he/she has to kick us out of the store at 4pm until 4:30pm for their lunch/dinner break. The store is also open 1 less hour every day (it closes at 8 instead of 9pm now)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hahaha!

[Cenotaph]

Its all here the same ever since. Times, days, size of the stores... and as you might know, germany isnt a small mrket for GW, the opposite is the fact.

All will e ending good!

[Draelkar]

Here in Philadelphia the GW went from being a large store in a mall with 6 tables and a painting bar to a tiny store with 2 tables and a tiny paint station. The new store is only open from 2 in the afternoon until 9, and is closed Mondays and Tuesdays. The old store was near a few major highways, and was roughly easy to get to from most of the region. The new store is in a congested area with only 1 significant road. I used to go to the old store a few times a month to play and paint. I went to the new store 3 times in 2 years and then stopped going entirely. The time to get to the store from where I lived went from an hour to an hour and a half.

^This. If losing personal interest in the game wasn't enough, the move of the Philadelphia store has proven to be the final nail in the coffin that ended my experience with GW games as knew it, but that's just me.

I find it strange though that while they keep raising prices and posing their game systems as more upper class, here in philly they relocated the store from an area with a closer proximity to higher income households to an area with a farther proximity to higher income households, i guess the rent decrease is enough to make it fiscally feasible.

[magickbk]

^This. If losing personal interest in the game wasn't enough, the move of the Philadelphia store has proven to be the final nail in the coffin that ended my experience with GW games as knew it, but that's just me.

I find it strange though that while they keep raising prices and posing their game systems as more upper class, here in philly they relocated the store from an area with a closer proximity to higher income households to an area with a farther proximity to higher income households, i guess the rent decrease is enough to make it fiscally feasible.

When you've been around as long as I have, this is pretty normal. In the days of yore when there were half a dozen GW locations in North America, there was a GW on South Street in Philly. When it closed, they didn't open another GW in Philadelphia for 8 or so years. During the time I've played I've seen the number of independents grow, dwindle, swell, and level out. Things are much better off in the region overall than they were 5 years ago, but the Philly GW store is embarrassing.

[JimmyWolf2007]

My local GW store opened in March and has ONE guy running the whole store. We have to leave when he takes lunch and needs to do money things. And he still does a damn good job, even when the store is packed. So while they seem to be happy to open new stores and provide investment, I think they may just be looking at efficiency savings.

In the UK at least, Sundays are a difficult one because of the Sunday trading laws in place. Some GW stores had to be big enough to have a couple of gaming tables in there and took them over the "how ever many square foot your store must be to open for more than 6 hours on a Sunday".

What's more confusing is that they've chosen to start this just as the government has literally just put these laws on hiatus for the Olympics.

Letting staff go when the economy is contracting is going to happen to everyone (The U.K's contracted by 0.7% last quarter). Even Apple's share prices fell on their most recent sales figures (not that it'll stop the sterile white juggernaut).

Only thing I'll say is that many part-timers who I've met at GW stores in the past have generally been more enthusiastic than the management staff about the hobby. It's like management destroys your passion for it. So that might be disappointing for some...

[Herzlos]

In England they used to be open 7 days a week, so for it to change suddenly to a 5 day week is a bit surprising.

They've been 6 days for a while now, with 10am opening times. Most seem to be shut on a Monday as it's their quietest day, seemingly some are also shutting on a Tuesday because it's also pretty quiet.

I can't see them shutting on Sundays in the UK; it's usually their beginners day and the shops are usually pretty busy.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Well, I know for FACT that GW Shrewsbury now closes on Mondays and Tuesdays, it's a two-man store and those two days are the quietest, the store loses money and to stop the loss of jobs it now closes on those two days instead.

Obviously the economic downturn is affecting GW.

I know?

[Wildeybeast]

They've been 6 days for a while now, with 10am opening times. Most seem to be shut on a Monday as it's their quietest day, seemingly some are also shutting on a Tuesday because it's also pretty quiet.

I can't see them shutting on Sundays in the UK; it's usually their beginners day and the shops are usually pretty busy.

The Derby one is open 7 days a week. I'm guessing that they judge the opening times of each store based on how sales do in that store, rather than having a nationwide policy. Which makes me doubtful that the OP is a blanket nationwide policy.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It's that whole thing that's going on with the badges, each store has a "Company Badge", and Shrewsbury is 3rd Company I think? Nottingham and London are 1st Company.


Seriously, look at the name badges when you're next in.

[Havik110]

Well, I know for FACT that GW Shrewsbury now closes on Mondays and Tuesdays, it's a two-man store and those two days are the quietest, the store loses money and to stop the loss of jobs it now closes on those two days instead.

Obviously the economic downturn is affecting GW.
umm you think maybe an 80 dollar storm raven or a 75 dollar land raider have anything to do with why people are buying fewer models...

how about the 45 dollar box of finecrap rangers or the 25 dollar Eldrad model...

GW has lagging sales because GW is doesnt understand basic economics...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm sorry but I have no head for currency conversions. I'll assume that that is bad?

[Psychosplodge]

It's about £5 for a land raider, £2.50 for some rangers and a £1 for the Eldrad model,

It's like their petrol, they just don't know they're born...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh. I wish I paid that price for GW products. :rolleyes:

[Psychosplodge]

Oh. I wish I paid that price for GW products. :rolleyes:
I know right?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Lucky Americans. :p

[Herzlos]

The Derby one is open 7 days a week. I'm guessing that they judge the opening times of each store based on how sales do in that store, rather than having a nationwide policy. Which makes me doubtful that the OP is a blanket nationwide policy.

Sorry, I think the restricted opening days are more likely to apply to the one man stores that have been popping up. The 2 bigger city centre ones here (Glasgow and Edinburgh) are open 7 days until quite late (9pm most days I think), presumably to try and get gamers in to play. None of them seem to open before 10am though which is a bit of a nuisance, though understandable.

[Psychosplodge]

I'm sure a I've seen a couple that don't open while 12 sometimes...

[Wildeybeast]

Sorry, I think the restricted opening days are more likely to apply to the one man stores that have been popping up. The 2 bigger city centre ones here (Glasgow and Edinburgh) are open 7 days until quite late (9pm most days I think), presumably to try and get gamers in to play. None of them seem to open before 10am though which is a bit of a nuisance, though understandable.

Yeah, that would make sense. GW Derby isn't particularly big as a store, but is open late quite a few nights and has 3 staff, so I guess it must be pretty popular. There are always folk in there when I pop in.

[magickbk]

The prices here in the US are roughly what the UK pays. They reset prices to roughly the conversion rate when they do the price increases. Since that is once a year, depending on what the economy does, sometimes we make out a little better, sometimes a little worse. We don't get hammered like the Aussies do... The UK makes out WAY better on Forge World when you factor in their ridiculous international shipping policy, though.

[Xenith]

GW's will be closing Mon-Tue during the school year as it is uneconomic to remain open. Staff that would work on those days are moved to the others, to ensure most/all stores have 2 people all the time Weds-Sun, for customer service.

During the summer holidays, stores will re-open to 7 days/week, as this is the key time for GW. Unsure about xmas holidays, etc.

[Daemonette666]

Looks like the rumour I heard in July is true. GW is not trading on Sundays and Mondays at their Parramatta and Sydney Battle Bunkers. They will also be closing earlier on Thursday, and on all Public Holidays. Apparently it is because they have to pay their full time staff (except managers) time and a half on Sundays, after hours Thursday (late night shopping) and public holidays.

The link to the GW released notice which was discussed on Wargamer.au is below. That thread refers to a facebook page.

http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=145276

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=420...nt=1&ref=nf

GW have closed their North Sydney (in an outdoor arcade area) and Hornsby (in a shopping centre) stores and are not relocating them. I also heard that the GW Macarthur store is moving out of the Shopping centre and relocating to Queen St Campbelltown, nearer the my Local Wargaming and Hobby Store - The Hall of Heroes, which I think has taken a lot of their clientele away from the Macarthur and Liverpool stores. I have heard from another less reliable source that they might be extending their contract to stay in the Macarthur shopping centre. Who knows, who really cares, because I personally have not been there for over 6 months, which was the last time I was in a GW store.

[White Tiger88]

They did this long ago here in canada.....

[miteyheroes]

As far as I know the UK is still mostly just closed Monday & Tuesday. I wish it was Tuesday & Wednesday - I can't make it down at the weekend, so have to wait for Wednesday to buy new releases!

[RGilbert26]

One man stores are shut Monday and Tuesday and i believe a few large stores (maybe all) are now shut then too. I know Cambridge has done so and it's a big store.

[White Tiger88]

One man stores are shut Monday and Tuesday and i believe a few large stores (maybe all) are now shut then too. I know Cambridge has done so and it's a big store.

From what they are doing to you guys now looks like Canada was the test model we lost all of the following

1 Bunker Store (small bunker but still 8 tables)
1 Closet store
1 Semi-Closet Store

And this is in the last 2 years lol, The current store we have now was also closed for a year and moved.......With all Part-Time staff fired.

[Herzlos]

Looks like the rumour I heard in July is true. GW is not trading on Sundays and Mondays at their Parramatta and Sydney Battle Bunkers. They will also be closing earlier on Thursday, and on all Public Holidays. Apparently it is because they have to pay their full time staff (except managers) time and a half on Sundays, after hours Thursday (late night shopping) and public holidays.

Aren't Sundays and public holidays the busiest times for any shop?

[alshrive]

I know that GW in leics is now shut monday and tuesday and relatively recently they halved the size of the store (but did not relocate) and no longer have casual staff.....

[Caitsidhe]

If I were to guess (and that is all any opinion can be called), I would say that they have realized that their approach to the store doesn't work. They are cutting costs to try and make the output equal the potential gain. In the United States, for example, most prefer independent vendors rather than an official store. The reasons are as follows:

1. GW stores are small.
2. GW stores are not setup for regular play.
3. GW stores don't carry anything else.
4. GW stores seem to have erratic hours.
5. GW stores don't seem to offer any special perk for shopping at them.

In the United States at least, Games Workshop seems to have entirely misread its market and thrown good money after bad. Independent retailers that have setup substantial gaming areas keep their customers around all day for impulse sales. They contribute a place for players to gather which in turn encourages more people to play and require product. This also, in turn, builds up a certain loyalty. When I buy at a store (rather than order direct), I only buy at the stores which support me. I cannot speak to the market in the United Kingdom (or elsewhere) but the Games Workshop stores in the United States appear to be a universal failure.

[miteyheroes]

I think that the UK has fewer of those style independent retailers, ours tend to be relatively small? Some have gaming rooms, some don't. The independent retailers don't always have the complete range of GW stock, whilst GWs have a good range (not forgeworld or some things, but hey). GWs normally have gaming tables, and often have gaming nights on Thursdays when lots of people attend (as well as gaming for new people on weekends).

[alshrive]

I think that the UK has fewer of those style independent retailers, ours tend to be relatively small? Some have gaming rooms, some don't. The independent retailers don't always have the complete range of GW stock, whilst GWs have a good range (not forgeworld or some things, but hey). GWs normally have gaming tables, and often have gaming nights on Thursdays when lots of people attend (as well as gaming for new people on weekends).

I would actually say GW is moving away from supporting in store gaming activities personally. GW Leics used to be have 5 Gaming Tables (as well as the boards necessary for all intro games!) it now only has 1 (or maybe 2 but i think 1) gaming table and the intro boards...... I actually feel that Games Workshop as a company are supporting the gamer less and less and are becoming more and more concerned with emptying our bank accounts. What i would like is a "healthy" balance of the 2.

[Psychosplodge]

They've certainly moved away from it beyond introductory sessions and one night a week compared to how it was when I started when every night had something going on.

[magickbk]

If I were to guess (and that is all any opinion can be called), I would say that they have realized that their approach to the store doesn't work. They are cutting costs to try and make the output equal the potential gain. In the United States, for example, most prefer independent vendors rather than an official store. The reasons are as follows:

1. GW stores are small.
2. GW stores are not setup for regular play.
3. GW stores don't carry anything else.
4. GW stores seem to have erratic hours.
5. GW stores don't seem to offer any special perk for shopping at them.

In the United States at least, Games Workshop seems to have entirely misread its market and thrown good money after bad. Independent retailers that have setup substantial gaming areas keep their customers around all day for impulse sales. They contribute a place for players to gather which in turn encourages more people to play and require product. This also, in turn, builds up a certain loyalty. When I buy at a store (rather than order direct), I only buy at the stores which support me. I cannot speak to the market in the United Kingdom (or elsewhere) but the Games Workshop stores in the United States appear to be a universal failure.

The problem really becomes a focus on the wrong thing. Back when I was on staff, we were the top performing store in the US. Then the store in Palisades in West Nyack, NY opened and knocked us out of the top position. It was a massive mall, the store instantly was bringing in top revenue in the rankings, but was closed after a few years because it could barely meet expenses. When our store was on top, we had little clue what our numbers and targets were. Our focus was awesome events and making sure people had fun. A new manager replaced our old one, and we had to constantly track our numbers and quotas throughout the day. At some point, some idiot higher up the chain decided that success was measured by a quantifiable number of intro games run and Core sets sold, and measured our success by those things, which caused the staff to focus on moving a box instead of enjoying themselves so much that they buy it anyway.

These new mini-stores, the cancellation of most official GW events in the US, and the abomination that passes for Games Day now, reek of that mentality. I hold out hope that eventually someone sees the light and starts to move back in the other direction. In all, it seems to me like GW gaming is up overall in my region. There are numerous stores holding gaming of some kind or another, perhaps even more than there have ever been before.

It just seems like a bad idea for a company like GW to not have their own stores be the best. Think of it like 'Eavy Metal. The models in the Codex are better than 99% of what the rest of us have. The GW stores should be better than most other retailers as an example of how to do it right.

[inquisitorsog]

Then the store in Palisades in West Nyack, NY opened and knocked us out of the top position.

I was always surprised at the presence of the store in that abomination of a mall. I was familiar with the reputation of the company operating the mall and I couldn't figure how a game store could generate enough revenue to afford the rent on a store right by an entrance. I think one thing that helped is that the number of true gaming stores in the general area always seemed rather low compared to the relative population, but still, that mall was notorious for crazy rents plus other fees and requirements imposed by the mall operator.

This is where I had a staff member try to tell me that he was a better painter than everyone else because he never wiped paint off his brushes and got the right amount on just by dipping. (His models ended up looking average for the store). The sales pressure was also intense beyond belief even for GW. That probably lost them a lot of sales from me because I just got in the habit of figuring out what I wanted before I got to the store, walking in, grabbing it, paying for it and leaving. I didn't feel comfortable browsing because they were always breathing over your shoulder trying to tell you what to buy. I've worked retail, I know the fact that good customer contact also prevents shoplifting, but this was well beyond that.

[Daemonette666]

My local gaming store has made going there a more relaxing and enjoyable experience. They have made going wargaming and board gaming more enjoyable because they do not do the following:

I always hated going to GW when -

1: They had their sales or special releases on and it got so cramped and crowded you could not move and you did not know if anyone was trying to pick pocket the place.

2: I was always worried about my figurine case which had to be stacked in a very busy corner at the front of the GW store. Everyone man handling everyone else's figure cases to get to their own, and anyone could walk off with a figure case if no one was watching.

3: The Punk Metal Music they played at most GW stores I went to always seemed to be played so loud that everyone had to shout over it in order to be heard while gaming. GW like to promote the shouting, perhaps to appease the kids who went there. A lot of the times when locally in my area GW were releasing a new product, entertaining the holiday crowds, or just on a Thursday night games night, they would get everyone to shout "For the Emperor" or " WAAARGH" to see who shouted the loudest went first (instead of dice rolling). I hated all that shouting.

4: I was told to eat outside while the staff members were eating their food an drinking behind the counter.

5: The staff were talking about a subject like trail bike riding, their new car they bought, or Doctor Who, or some other Sci-Fi program they like. We took it as a sign that they were relaxing their silly policy of talking about only GW stuff, and they told us to stop talking about Stargate, or Doctor Who, or something similar else we had to leave the store (we were sitting at the hobby table painting).

At my local gaming store there are tables set up for 15mm Flames of War, 25mm Napoleonics, Modern 25mm Skirmish/ WW II Skirmish, Infinity, Warmachine/Hordes/Fantasy, 40K, Space battle Games, Naval & Land wargames (i.e. Dystopian), about a dozen card game tables, a huge board game table, a decent sized hobby/ painting area, A large amount os scenery locked under the relvent gaming tables. They have a fair bit of scenery for other games if needed, such as Dropzone Commander, where they just slide out one of the boards sections from underneath the tables (they are tiered like drawers under the table so you can swap tables as required), They have 5 multi-tiered lockable Glass Display Cases to show off the stores and customers Painted Armies.

This is all in the gaming area. The store has a car park out the back, but it can get packed, so they get people to park around the corner (40 - 60 Meters away). The Shop has an actual store section, that you enter after going through the gaming area. Here they sell a huge range of games, from board games, card games, CCGs LCGs, Miniatures games (too many to mention them all from memory), Hobby tools and supplies, gaming accessories, Battle foam and other brand cases, Skirmish games (such as Malifaux and infinity).

The best part of the store section part of the shop is the cafeteria. You can buy Burgers, Chicken Schnitzels, Chicken Parmigiana, Nugget and Chips, Soup, wraps, brewed coffee, soft drinks, and so on. You can even drink and eat your hot food at you card game/ board game table, while playing a table top wargame, or on the tables they provide outside on the verandah.

The noise levels are very good, with some laughter, some people shouting now and then when they roll really good or really badly, but it is all in all a really fun place to relax and mix with other who want to fight your army, and so on. Usually the local music radio station is playing in the background at a moderate volume, or they play a selection of easy listening rock, ballads, and other music that is not overly aggressive.

The sales and new releases at the shop are an organised affair. No one shouting crushing everyone. They let people pre-order their copies of the item, make sure it is in for them (put aside), and then get everyone else to orderly line up and buy a copy of the new product. Then they sell the pre-ordered good to the regulars once the line up has finished. New arrival stock is put in the new arrivals section, and then after a while it goes into it's relevant section of the store. There are usually 2-3 staff on roster at one time depending how busy they normally get. After 2 years, they know how busy hings get (normally).

I have seen times when they were running a tournament for a table top wargame, in part of the store, and a card game tournament in the card game section, and the store had nearly 50 or 60 people in it. It started to look a little crowded then, but so that you could not move around.

If anyone has been to the Hall of Heroes, they will know what I mean It is easily as large of larger than the GW Battle Bunkers.

They have demonstration/ intro games which are normally posted on their website, they have demonstration tables to teach people how to play games in the main store, and they know that they do not know everything there is about certain games, so they have asked trusted customers to teach, or demonstrate the games they do not know well to new customers. They have to be really well known to the store owner before he will ask you to help him. You do not sell the goods for him though. He might ask for your advise to give a new customer for their army, of he knows you play that army or game. He is not ashamed to ask for help if he needs it, and we have helped him build his gaming tables, some of his terrain, etc.

He still has to be careful about allowing people to do things that might get other customers or themselves hurt, so he is careful who he asks for help, or who to get to demonstrate games, etc. He is also not overly pushy when it comes to selling, cross selling, up selling, and so on. It is part of the reason I reduced the ammount of time I went to GW stores, before I finally stopped going to them.

I know this reply might get some flakk or a troll or 2, but I love the store. The Manager has been in the Wargaming/ hobby retails sales business in one form or another for over 10 years, and he knows what he is doing. Part of the reason why he quit from a famous chain of tabletop/hobby game stores , was that he disagreed with their policies on sales and over pricing of their goods in Australia when compared to the rest of the world where they sell their games.

[inquisitorsog]

3: The Punk Metal Music they played at most GW stores I went to always seemed to be played so loud that everyone had to shout over it in order to be heard while gaming. GW like to promote the shouting, perhaps to appease the kids who went there. A lot of the times when locally in my area GW were releasing a new product, entertaining the holiday crowds, or just on a Thursday night games night, they would get everyone to shout "For the Emperor" or " WAAARGH" to see who shouted the loudest went first (instead of dice rolling). I hated all that shouting.


Loud music is a technique used by some restaurants to get people to eat and leave quickly so they can seat people who are waiting. If the music in the store is always blaring when it's crowded, the store may be trying the same thing.

[magickbk]

M3: The Punk Metal Music they played at most GW stores I went to always seemed to be played so loud that everyone had to shout over it in order to be heard while gaming. GW like to promote the shouting, perhaps to appease the kids who went there. A lot of the times when locally in my area GW were releasing a new product, entertaining the holiday crowds, or just on a Thursday night games night, they would get everyone to shout "For the Emperor" or " WAAARGH" to see who shouted the loudest went first (instead of dice rolling). I hated all that shouting.

4: I was told to eat outside while the staff members were eating their food an drinking behind the counter.

5: The staff were talking about a subject like trail bike riding, their new car they bought, or Doctor Who, or some other Sci-Fi program they like. We took it as a sign that they were relaxing their silly policy of talking about only GW stuff, and they told us to stop talking about Stargate, or Doctor Who, or something similar else we had to leave the store (we were sitting at the hobby table painting).

I've been in stores where the music is too loud. One manager I had would 'crank the music to get the players pumped' if he felt energy in the store was low. Usually that meant he just checked the numbers and they were bad because he had driven all our customers away. Of course, we had an approved list of soundtracks, not Punk.

I was guilty of the yelling contest for events, but not for regular nights. Sometimes for some little kid at an intro table. I used it as a icebreaker for the big Mega Battle events, because I found many people would isolate themselves on the table, but after screaming in each others' faces for a minute, they were more chatty and worked together - strange phenomenon. There was a time it was done out of fun and excitement, but I think the company as a whole has overused it.

As for 4 and 5, I see and have been on both sides of the argument. I would have a drink behind the counter, because I couldn't leave the sales floor. I would also have some short outside conversations with a co-worker. The difference is that I would explain it that way when I had to ask a customer to take it outside. It is a rule passed down from management, but how you enforce it that makes the difference.

[miteyheroes]

I would actually say GW is moving away from supporting in store gaming activities personally.

True, it does seem to have declined somewhat in the past year or so in the UK? But still, we don't really have enough of the independent wargames stores that other countries describe - sadly!

[Caitsidhe]

True, it does seem to have declined somewhat in the past year or so in the UK? But still, we don't really have enough of the independent wargames stores that other countries describe - sadly!

This is interesting to me. I always assumed (and we know what that makes me) that our friends across the pond had the same kind of of game stores as we do in the States. I expect this is another big cultural difference which explains the greater loyalty and defensive mechanism that seems to kick in for people in the U.K. when talking about Games Workshop. In the United States they are just another (albeit big) game company. Their stuff takes up shelf space in its own section of our large game stores. Do you see where I'm going with this? It also explains why their stores are failing utterly over here.

[miteyheroes]

This is interesting to me. I always assumed (and we know what that makes me) that our friends across the pond had the same kind of of game stores as we do in the States. I expect this is another big cultural difference which explains the greater loyalty and defensive mechanism that seems to kick in for people in the U.K. when talking about Games Workshop. In the United States they are just another (albeit big) game company. Their stuff takes up shelf space in its own section of our large game stores. Do you see where I'm going with this? It also explains why their stores are failing utterly over here.

I've found one independent shop approaching how US gamers describe gaming stores. But that's it.

I mean, there are other shops you can by GW at - some large toy stores, some model railway stores, etc. But there seem to be fewer large independent shops with gaming space.

[Wildeybeast]

I've found one independent shop approaching how US gamers describe gaming stores. But that's it.

I mean, there are other shops you can by GW at - some large toy stores, some model railway stores, etc. But there seem to be fewer large independent shops with gaming space.

I suspect GW has something to do with this. Pretty much every town worthy of the name in the UK has a GW, with the larger cities having several and more opening all the time, so I don't imagine there is a huge gap in the market for the independents. And with us being a much smaller country it is much more feasible to set up your own local/regional gaming club so there is less demand for a store offering space to play. That's my tuppence worth at any rate.

[Mr Mystery]

Doesn't help that running a gaming store successfully is incredibly difficult. Far too many people go into it thinking offering a cheaper price than GW will see them flourish.

So much more to it than that. I've had the benefit of GW management training (which I failed, hence working in a very different industry). To make your store succeed, whether GW or Indy requires a great deal of hard work and planning. You need to attract and retain customers, constantly giving them reason to return, and ensuring no sales opportunity is missed. I know it goes against Internet wisdom, but a central teaching of the GW method is 'tell them what they need, sell them what they want'. Crack that and you're doing well!

Every percentile of discount is coming out of your profit margin!

[magickbk]

I suspect GW has something to do with this. Pretty much every town worthy of the name in the UK has a GW, with the larger cities having several and more opening all the time, so I don't imagine there is a huge gap in the market for the independents. And with us being a much smaller country it is much more feasible to set up your own local/regional gaming club so there is less demand for a store offering space to play. That's my tuppence worth at any rate.

It comes down to logistics in the US. You're dealing with a country that is 40 times the size of the UK, but with a population density that is about 1 tenth. Now, most of that is clustered in a few spots, some of which GW seems more than willing to support, and some of which GW seems to enjoy abandoning. They must have some sort of demographic information that they base store locations on. Take, for example, Houston, which has just under 6.1 million people in the Metro, and 6 GWs, and Philadelphia, which has just over 5.9 million people in the Metro, and 1 GW that was downsized a few years ago. Simply put, here in the US you are either near a heavily GW-supported area, or you'd better hope you've got good independent retailers, because the closest one might 100 miles away.

[Wildeybeast]

It comes down to logistics in the US. You're dealing with a country that is 40 times the size of the UK, but with a population density that is about 1 tenth. Now, most of that is clustered in a few spots, some of which GW seems more than willing to support, and some of which GW seems to enjoy abandoning. They must have some sort of demographic information that they base store locations on. Take, for example, Houston, which has just under 6.1 million people in the Metro, and 6 GWs, and Philadelphia, which has just over 5.9 million people in the Metro, and 1 GW that was downsized a few years ago. Simply put, here in the US you are either near a heavily GW-supported area, or you'd better hope you've got good independent retailers, because the closest one might 100 miles away.

Exactly. If you have large population areas with little GW support then there is more opportunity for indies to grow. For better or worse they have a massive monopoly over the UK and it's only growing. Our small size also means they can and do move staff around stores regularly allowing them to deploy the best staff where they are needed to further prop up that monopoly by ensuring they have the best staff where they want them. Interestingly the USA independent retailers are not listed in the UK WD but the USA GW stores are. Are the indies listed in the US WD? Do they outnumber the GW stores?

[magickbk]

Interestingly the USA independent retailers are not listed in the UK WD but the USA GW stores are. Are the indies listed in the US WD? Do they outnumber the GW stores?

They are, they do, and massively so. I don't have my WD with me at work, but it has always been this way.

[Psychosplodge]

Your other problem is Independents tend to be slightly out the way. With cheaper rents but not necessarily any decent parking.

[Caitsidhe]

This explains so much. If they have been trying to apply their same "monopoly" business mechanic over here, it was doomed from the start. Our so-called Independent Stores don't just outnumber dedicated shops, they are the RULE. The only way dedicated shops can make it in the U.S. is by offering something we can't get at our favored stores. In the case of GW that would mean access to discount prices and/or access to product which is unavailable in other stores. They do none of these things. It also explains how/why they have dreadfully misread the American consumer of game products. Over here we are used to instant access to a multitude of different games all at the same location. We also have an expectation of there being ample game space provided at the stores which sell it to us. I'm sure this evolved over time but that is the truth of it. We don't have "brand" loyalty. We have "location" loyalty based on what they give us.

[Beagle]

The only way dedicated shops can make it in the U.S. is by offering something we can't get at our favored stores.

I recently had the pleasure of a local GW store opening in my area. There are currently 3 great game stores in town with more gaming space, more games, and a better stock. Within about an hour there are at least 5 more independent game stores that I can think of. The GW store is pretty small, doesn't offer discounts, and has admitted that it's his job to sell the game to new players. Then he tells them about other stores where they can go play GW games.

I don't expect the GW store to last very long.