Marker lights and Snap shots

[plasticaddict]

We were discussing this at the store the other day and I though and ask for some more opinions.

How do marker lights interact with snap shots?

When you perform a snap shot you fire as if you are BS1.

The Tau faq states that you can't use marker lights when performing Overwatch shots but mentions nothing else.

Could you use marker light hits to increase you BS for shooting at aircraft or for a unit that had gone to ground?

:::Thanks for the responses, I found the applicable rule on pg 2 this morning.:::

[albertsevil]

I believe these questions have arisen on this and other forums several times. Google will give you more information than I, but here is what I understand:

Snapfire and overwatch apply the BS1 after any other modifiers. Therefore even if you did hit with marker lights and boost a unit's BS, it would always drop down and be BS1 when shooting snapfire or overwatch.

The exceptionss / ways around this are (purely from the Tau codex and therefore without using psychic powers):
1. Weapons which are twin-linked will fire at BS1 but re-roll misses in snapfire and overwatch.
2. Preferred enemy (like when the Ethereal gets killed) allows reroll of 1s to hit.
3. Seeker missiles hit aircraft at BS5 but require a marker light to have already hit at BS1. Seeker missiles may not be fired in overwatch, whether off a vehicle being assaulted or as a result of markerlight hits in overwatch. See the most recent FAQ more info on this.

Hope this helps. Good gaming.

Ryan

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Better to spend the tokens reducing the cover save from Evade, than to waste them.

Even better, spend one on removing Night Fighting, and it can shave 2 points from a cover save in long ranges.

[Redwulfe]

Snap firing makes you fire as if you are BS 1, it does not make you BS 1 so your marker lights do increase your BS but that is irrelevant as you will still fire as if you where BS 1.

It's like unwieldy, which makes you attack at I 1. It does not reduce your actual initiative so modifiers to initiative still work, they just don't matter as you attack at I 1 no matter what.

Red

[DarkLink]

This is addressed in the rulebook.

Read the section on multiple modifiers. Snap Fire is a set value, while Markerlights are an addition modifier, therefore Snap Fire always trumps Markerlights.

You are BS1.

[Redwulfe]

If snap fire sets your BS, I don't think it does. Page 13, under the snap shot rules, "...then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots." unlike the rules for blind, page 34, "...all models in the unit are reduced to Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill 1 until the end of their next turn."

Snap shots is a counts as so your BS does actually change you are just counting it as a 1, doesn't matter what you do to it. It still counts as a 1. Blind, however, reduces your skills and is a set effect. Multiple modifiers would be used in this case.

Just my opinion, but seems supported by the text as written.


Red

[Caldera02]

If snap fire sets your BS, I don't think it does. Page 13, under the snap shot rules, "...then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots." unlike the rules for blind, page 34, "...all models in the unit are reduced to Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill 1 until the end of their next turn."

Snap shots is a counts as so your BS does actually change you are just counting it as a 1, doesn't matter what you do to it. It still counts as a 1. Blind, however, reduces your skills and is a set effect. Multiple modifiers would be used in this case.

Just my opinion, but seems supported by the text as written.


Red

Counts as 1 is effectivly the same. It's not remotely an addition/subtraction or multiplier.

[DarkLink]

If Snap Fire doesn't 'set' your BS, then nothing does, because nothing actually uses the term 'set'. Everything says 'counts as' or 'strikes at' or something to that effect.

If a rule changes your characteristic from one specific number to another, such as Snap Fire, then it is a set multiplier, and thus takes precedent.

[Redwulfe]

Not necessarily, blind says "reduces to" which sounds like a set effect, and the signum say that you BS "is 5" which also would be setting your BS.

Now I don't have all the codexes but the only things that I have found so far that doesn't sound like a set effect is snapfire and unwieldy. Of course I could be wrong, that's why I'm debating the issue. If I am that's great since talion could give me a missile shot that doesn't have to "count as 1" for its shot against a flier. And my librarian can attack with his power axe at I10 rather than having to make the attacks at 1.

Its in my best interest that you all are right, so please convence me otherwise. It just doesn't seem to read that way to me or my group.

Red

[Tauownz]

If you want to snapshot at flyers you have to hit them w/ a markerlight on a 6 and grant that shot over to a seeker missile which at which point will hit on a 2+. Honestly, get a aegis line and that 4 shot S7 twin linked gun it has for 50 pts. That's your best bet if flyers are your concern. 48" range too so each turn your hitting it. Do know if they stay as flyers they have at most 3 -4 turns of shooting before they are off the board. If they go into hover mode, they are a fast skimmer w/ a jink 5+ save which you can eliminate w/ markerlights and can be hit at normal BS.

[Tynskel]

your best best vs flyers is a Barracuda Air Superiority Fighter.

3 Str 7 AP3 Ioncannon shots (great for flying monsterous creatures!), 2 Twin-linked str 7 missile pod shots, 6 str5 AP5 Burst Cannon shots. That much firepower will kill any flyer in one go.