Ork Stormboyz / New Assault Rules

[Slacker]

If using a Stormboyz' Rokkit Pack during the assault move, I roll the extra D6 it confers and it comes up a 1.
Does this extra D6 get re-rolled if I choose to re-roll their charge distance? If so, and this negates the original 1, do I still lose a stormboy?

From Rokkit Pack wargear entry Ork Codex p. 47


Every time the stormboyz unit utilises [sic] its rokkit packs to move or fall back, roll a D6. On the roll of a 1, one of the rokkit packs has gone out of control. Its owner lands on his head and his pack detonates. Remove a Stormboy model as a casualty. Regardless of the result you may add the number rolled to the amount the unit moves that turn.

Though really getting into RAW, I can see the argument for the stormboyz not getting the extra D6 at all while using their rokkit packs during the assault phase as this is not moving (or falling back) but charging.

Realistically speaking though, the stormboyz have more range if the rokkit packs are used in the movement phase, but then wouldn't get the re-roll on assault distance or hammer of wrath attacks, so it's a trade off there.

I think my gaming group would most likely rule in favor of getting the extra D6, as the unit is using the wargear and the models are being moved. As far as the re-roll goes, the way it is worded in the rule as the result of the extra D6 being added to their movement makes it feel like something separate and probably would not benefit from the standard jump unit's ability to re-roll their charge distance.

I have looked at the FAQ and it only clarifies that models equipped with rokkit packs are jump infantry.

What do you all think?

[Mr.Pickelz]

"...Models in a charging unit make their charge move - up to the 2D6 you rolled earlier - following the same rules as in the Movement phase, with the exception that they can be moved within 1" of enemy models..."
This is on Pg. 21, 2nd paragraph, under Moving Charging Models.

Following that, "If a Jump model uses it's jump pack(or equivalent) in the movement phase, it can re-roll it's charge distance." Pg. 47 under Assault Phase.

Since Rokkit Packs are considered Jump Packs, the model would then be classified under and follow the Jump Infantry rules, which allows you to re-roll the distance of the charge, which includes the extra D6 from the Rokkit Pack rule as that is apart of the distance of the charge movement.

Now whether you take the casualty or not, I would say you do, because even with the re-roll granted by fleet from "Waagh!" a unit that rolls any 1's must take the wound associated with it, even if the dice is re-rolled. This is in the Ork Errata/FAQ, under the Errata section on Page 2. I would apply this to Stormboyz using an RAI train-of-thought.

Edit: this is just my viewpoint on it, I'm sure others will debate otherwise. : /

[Wildcard]

If i am right, in the assault the unit is treated as all respects as moving on assault..

Not having the rulebook here now, so i cannot give you the page or exact wording, but if you got the book i would suggest to find the specific spot.

If i remember right:

- If you use your jump pack (rokkit pack) in assault phase instead of movement phase, you are entitled (and bound) by all bonuses and tradeoffs that come from the use of jump packs (that in this case rokkit packs are with additional rules).


If using a Stormboyz' Rokkit Pack during the assault move, I roll the extra D6 it confers and it comes up a 1.
Does this extra D6 get re-rolled if I choose to re-roll their charge distance? If so, and this negates the original 1, do I still lose a stormboy?

- In case of re-rolls, the last result always counts (like in twin-linked gets hot etc - this is covered in rulebook)
- Personally i see the extra d6 like this:
Its part of the movement, and jump packs on assault phase lets you re-roll one or more dice for the distance. Similarly to gets hot and twin linked, you get to re-roll all dice you like. However, you still should use different colored dice to the ork special rule distance dice to differentiate the 'normal 2d6' and the 'extra d6' rolls..

[metal_ead]

This is so clear. The stormboy extra movement only applies to moving (as in movement phase), and falling back. As jumppacks they can re-roll the dice for assault movement, as long as they did not use them to move. No more distance than the norm for assaulting, and no chance of losing a stormboy. You wish it allowed you to assault at a longer range, but it has no effect on the assault phase.

[Wolfshade]

One thing that puzzles me is the use of "utilises [sic]", usually it is used to signify an error in the original document, like the case against Mindcraft [sic], but I am unsure what is wrong here.

[Redwulfe]

It seems to read to me more like a randomized modifier rather than and actual extra die.

When the stormboyz charge they can use their jump packs. Because charge moves like movement they get to roll a die and then this dies result is added to the charge result. So if a 3 was rolled your charge is now 2d6+3.

The key to me is in the wording it doesn't say when they move roll an additional D6, but instead it just says roll a D6. I now they word it this way to allow you to do it in normal movement as well, but that further says to me it is simply a modifier in all accounts.

Red

[metal_ead]

A charge is acully not like movement, any unit charging moves just 2D6, with re rolls for fleet or jump pack. Bikes, monsters, and everything else charges just 2d6. Even move through cover does not help chargers anymore when in terrain. It is a 6th edition blanket rule covering all assaults. 2d6! Deal with it.

[Wolfshade]

The rokkit pack rule says that whenever they move or fall back.
Normal movement, is the move, but assaulting is charging not moving. This maybe adding a technicallity to the nomenclature that isn't intended mind, but it would seem odd that they could move 18" and then charge 18". That's 36" flyer speed :eek:

[Slacker]

One thing that puzzles me is the use of "utilises [sic]", usually it is used to signify an error in the original document, like the case against Mindcraft [sic], but I am unsure what is wrong here.

Probably just a difference between American and British, but my dictionary spells utilises, utilizes.

[Slacker]

A charge is acully not like movement, any unit charging moves just 2D6, with re rolls for fleet or jump pack. Bikes, monsters, and everything else charges just 2d6. Even move through cover does not help chargers anymore when in terrain. It is a 6th edition blanket rule covering all assaults. 2d6! Deal with it.

Deal with it? So aggressive.

You say this as though one unit in the game being able to move 6" in the movement phase and then charge 3D6" in the assault phase would break the game. (seems silly to me)

Truth be told, yours was actually the first interpretation I came up with after reading these rules, and without an official statement in a FAQ specifically addressing this, I would play it with only the 2D6 charge in a tournament or a league or such with no complaints.

Within my own gaming group though, we tend to lean more towards the RAI on strange rule interactions, as long as we are clear on the difference. I brought this up here as I thought it would be an interesting point for discussion.

[Wildcard]

Every time the stormboyz unit utilises [sic] its rokkit packs to move or fall back


This maybe adding a technicallity to the nomenclature that isn't intended mind, but it would seem odd that they could move 18" and then charge 18". That's 36" flyer speed

First off, they can utilize them in only once per turn (plus involuntary fallback action). Thus two possible scenarios:

First, Stormboys using rokkit packs during movement phase (and not on assault phase):
Movement phase: 12"+d6 ; Assault phase: 2d6, no re-rolls

Second, Stormboys using rokkit packs during assault phase (and not on movement phase)
Movement phase: 6" ; Assault phase: 2d6 + d6, re-rolls all. (Unless ork FAQ states that it cannot be re-rolled)

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@Wolfshade:
The rokkit pack rule says that whenever they move or fall back.
Normal movement, is the move, but assaulting is charging not moving.

Now, from the page 21: CHARGE MOVE ...Moving Charging Units... all of the models in the charging unit make their charge move - up to the 2d6 distance you rolled - following the same rules as in the movement phase, with the exeption that they can be moved within 1" of the enemy models.

Thus, moving in asssault phase is as much moving than moving on the movement phase with only one exception, listed above.

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There is one but though that just came to me. If i am not wrong, during 5th ed where all other jump infantry moved 12" flat, ork stormboys could use only 6" + d6". It could be that i am totally wrong in here, and i admit that i didn't think this one through to think of the implications, ingame effects etc etc..

[Redwulfe]

I would agree except I do not think you get to rerolling the rokkit pack die.



Every time the stormboyz unit utilises [sic] its rokkit packs to move or fall back, roll a D6. On the roll of a 1, one of the rokkit packs has gone out of control. Its owner lands on his head and his pack detonates. Remove a Stormboy model as a casualty. Regardless of the result you may add the number rolled to the amount the unit moves that turn.


It does not say roll an additional die, it simple sets a procedure for every time the rokkit pack is used. First roll a die if it comes up 1 then remove a stormboy, but no matter what the result add this amount to the move. To me that sounds like a radomly determined modifier. In other words:

If you use it during movement you get 12+x, where x is the result of the die.

If you use it in the charge you get 2d6+x, where x is the result of the die, but you may also reroll the charge. Its still 2d6+x though. The result of the die does not change or get rerolled, because it's a modifier and not an additional die.

Just me thoughts,
Red

[Wolfshade]

Now, from the page 21: CHARGE MOVE ...Moving Charging Units... all of the models in the charging unit make their charge move - up to the 2d6 distance you rolled - following the same rules as in the movement phase, with the exeption that they can be moved within 1" of the enemy models.

Thus, moving in asssault phase is as much moving than moving on the movement phase with only one exception, listed above.

That and it's called a "Charge Move" rather than a move...

I hadn't considered the implication of utilising it only once per turn, though that does make an interesting choice do you jump or re-roll your charge. (Does the same limitiation apply to assault marines?)

I think the issue is that Codex Orks was written for a time when you couldn't use jump packs to assault and both sides have merit and a faq would be useful.

If you can have you additional movement on the assault move, I think all the dice would need to be re-rolled, I have changed my mind on this one, but, it would be imperative that the additional die be seperate colour so that you know whether or not a casualty has been inflicted.

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In the whole utilise/utilize debate the issue centres around how nouns are modified to form verbs, in English ise/ize tend to be used based on whether the word has a latin/french root like utlise or a greek root. In American English, webster decided to have a standard suffix in ize to simplify the whole affari. Of course this whole quagmire could be avoided to use the verb in its natural form of "use"

[Wildcard]

do you jump or re-roll your charge. (Does the same limitiation apply to assault marines?)

All models that have type "jump" can use voluntarily their jump packs once in a turn. Either at movement or at assault phase.

As described earlier, but few points i forgot to mention:

If jump pack is used at assault phase, model(unit) moves at a speed typical to its unit type (so normal infantry and monstrous infantry is basic 6").
But if jump pack is used at the movement phase, its always (if i just remember the chart right) 12" movement.

You are required to use the jump packs in assault phase to get following benefits:
- Hammer of Wrath attacks
- Able to move like jump infantry (i.e move over intervening units)
- Get a re-roll to the assault distance

So, in the end, generally you are much more surely gonna get into the fight and deal additional damage if you use the jump packs in assault phase, but the tradeoff is that you are not gonna have the change to go max distance (24", 12"+2d6"). Of course both modes have their uses, but its not relevant here now..