Wrecked/Explodes & 'subsequent Assault phase'

[entendre_entendre]

Question: If one of your transports gets wrecked in your opponents turn, can that unit assault in your next turn? (assuming they pass their pinning test of course)
Rule for disembarking, p79 MRB: '
After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved, or choose to Run in their subsequent Shooting phase, but cannot declare charges in their subsequent Assault phase.
My confusion comes from the term 'their subsequent assault phase'. Obviously this was meant for your own turn to prevent assaulting out of t3h metahl boxes, but could also be applied to passengers of a transport destroyed in your opponents turn, as the unit's 'subsequent Assault phase' would be in your turn as they could perform actions (declare charges, etc.). So does this mean that if your unit's ride was wrecked in your opponent's turn, that the unit could not assault in your turn? :confused:

Example:
Rhino with Beserkers in it drives forwards 1st turn. Opponent does 3 hull points of damage to the rhino in their shooting phase, forcing a normal disembark within 3" of the access points.

Can the Beserkers declare an assault on turn 2? Their 'subsequent assault phase' would be in turn 2 right? Or is it merely the opponent's assault phase that the 'no charges' penalty is put in place? MRB seems to imply that the Beserkers cannot charge in turn 2 although this is a separate game turn and a different player turn (yours).


Now does this change when the transport explodes instead of being wrecked? Since survivors do not disembark from a transport that explodes, they are instead 'placed where the vehicle used to be' (p80 MRB), this seems to imply they could assault normally in the owning player's next turn (assuming a passed Pinning Test of course). This leads to the peculiar conclusion that it is better for one's transports to explode than to be wrecked, as one could assault with the unit that was inside the transport, but that makes absolutely no sense at all. Brain... hurting... need... clarification...

[Ailideon]

I had the same situation turn up in my game last time. We couldn't completely agree so we rolled off. I like to hear other peoples thoughts on this fulling.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Notice "their" in the wording - only their (ie. your) next assault phase counts. So yes that does mean your berzerkers can't charge on your turn after their ride was splatted, even if (as assumedly it did) it got splatted on your opponent's turn. They're too busy picking themselves out of the mangled rubble, disoriented by the blast. Remember the turns are an abstraction, it's all meant to be happening "at once".

I think it's exactly the same when it explodes. It's an, um, extreme kind of "disembarkation", but normal rules apply after the hits are resolved and the pinning test taken.

I hope that helps!

[Bean]

I actually think you're probably right about wrecked vehicles, Smurf, but models clearly do not disembark from an exploded vehicle--the rule wouldn't apply to them.

If you wanted to call this a mistake on the part of GW, I could be convinced, but the rules are pretty clear--getting placed after your transport explodes is not disembarkation--it is an entirely distinct mechanic with its own set of rules.

[thelion]

i would have to agree with smurf having been blown out of a vic before i would say that there is no charging the enemy for a good few min after that think about it this way. your zerkers went from the "relative" safety of there armoured transport sitting there waiting to get into a fight then boom and now they are surrounded by flaming the wreckage of what was at one point the land raider or rhino or what ever they were in. this starts some processes that have to happen with any mill unit the unit has to take cover then the leader in the sqd has to first assess what happened to his men how many and who he has left and what not figure the enemy position, come up with a plan, issue orders to his men, give his men a sec to get rdy then he can execute this plan, so i can see where you would not be able to assault after an emergency disembark

[Cap'nSmurfs]

What it needs is a line saying "the models follow the normal rules for disembarkation" after the pinning test is taken. I'm 90% sure it's how it's meant to go. Disembarkation is any time you leave a vehicle - whether you march happily out the door or get blasted out the window. The "blasted out the window" damage and pinning test is just an addition to the normal disembarkation rules.

Because otherwise it would be silly that they can move more freely than if their vehicle had been wrecked. I think common sense dictates that the rule works as above.

But, listen, until it's FAQ'd, Rule One applies - agree with your opponent how it works for your game, and go merrily on your way! :D

[entendre_entendre]

your zerkers went from the "relative" safety of there armoured transport sitting there waiting to get into a fight then boom and now they are surrounded by flaming the wreckage of what was at one point the land raider or rhino or what ever they were in.
Just thought I'd point out that you can assault out of the wrecked Land Raider due to the wording of the Assault vehicle rules stating you can charge on the turn the vehicle is wrecked (assuming no emergency disembark). Also, if you emergency disembarked, you couldn't do anything next turn. My question was for a normal disembark caused by (for arguments sake) shooting.

I was pretty sure you couldn't assault out of a wreck, but I'm still up in the air about explodes (even though it makes no sense) as the rules would should state 'are placed where the vehicle used to be, but otherwise follow the rules for disembarkation' if you couldn't. From a RAW standpoint, you seem to be able to assault out of an exploded transport. However, I wouldn't be surprised if this gets FAQ'ed to say 'no you can't' in a few months, so take that as you will. :/

[DarkLink]

Yeah, this seems like a loophole that got missed. But I can't find anything to clearly prevent the wrecked unit from assaulting like normal.

[Sir Biscuit]

To throw a fun wrench into this debate, check the rules summary at the end of the book and what it says happens to passengers when their transport explodes.

[Taz]

Just thought I'd point out that you can assault out of the wrecked Land Raider due to the wording of the Assault vehicle rules stating you can charge on the turn the vehicle is wrecked (assuming no emergency disembark). Also, if you emergency disembarked, you couldn't do anything next turn. My question was for a normal disembark caused by (for arguments sake) shooting.

I was pretty sure you couldn't assault out of a wreck, but I'm still up in the air about explodes (even though it makes no sense) as the rules would should state 'are placed where the vehicle used to be, but otherwise follow the rules for disembarkation' if you couldn't. From a RAW standpoint, you seem to be able to assault out of an exploded transport. However, I wouldn't be surprised if this gets FAQ'ed to say 'no you can't' in a few months, so take that as you will. :/

Actually according to RAW you can't assault out of a land raider in your subsequent assault phase either. Therule specifically says you can assault in the same turn you disembark from a vehicle with this rule. 'Same turn' being player turn. Cannot assault in your subsequent assault phase for disembarking. So 'same turn' being your opponents assault phase and since you can't assault in their assault phase you also cannot assault in the subsequent assault phase due to disembarking. Now if you disembarked from an assault vehicle on your own accord in your movement phase then your subsequent assault phase and assaulting the same turn you disembark are the same assault phase at that point. However if the transport is wrecked or exploded same turn and subsequent assault phase are on 2 different turns and do not coincide.

[Lungpickle]

Im looking all over for the rule that says you cant assault in the following turn from a assault vehicle.
I read the rule for assault vehicles on pg 33 iirc, and it says simply either voluntary or a destroyed vehicle.

Now we all know you cannot assault in your opponents turn and say if your opponent went sencond in turn 3 and turn 4 rolls around you CANT assault? Why your out of the vehicle because say it was destroyed whats stopping you.?

Point me to the page that restricts assaults from an assault vehicle after getting out.

[JMichael]

Rulebook p9: Any time the term 'turn' is used it means player turn
p33 - Assault Vehicles: you may charge on the turn you disembark, even on a turn the vehicle was destroyed.

Again 'turn' = player turn. So if your vehicle was destroyed on YOUR turn (dangerous terrain, wrecked by an Interceptor weapon, etc) then the disembarked unit may still declare a Charge.

Simple!

I do see the Explodes! during your opponent's turn then Charging in your turn (since you're not actually disembarking) as an oversight...but until it is FAQ'd there is no RAW that would prevent you from Charging!