Mr Mystery's Rule Bending Predict-a-matic!

[Mr Mystery]

So, I think we're all getting used to 6th Edition now and the new rules it has brought with it.

And just like 5th Edition, and all others before it, it's just a matter of time until the Codecies start playing with these new rules, allowing certain armies to either circumvent, or otherwise get greater benefit.

For instance...overwatch. There's already precedent with the Psychic Power to boost your BS when blasting away at incoming nastiness. Which armies do you think might get an inherent boost here? My money is on Tau, likely through Marker Lights, likewise for Tanks and snapfire in the same vein....

Got any other predictions?

[Chris Copeland]

My money is that some Gray Knights players will diminish the game via Wound Allocation Shenanigans (probably via "Look Out, Sir"). We'll see what happens...

[Maine]

Boosted BS doesn't apply to Overwatch or any other Snap Fire. Snap Fire is a Replacement of Attribute modifier (BS becomes 1), and so applies after all other modifiers...

With that, anything that modifies BS would not apply to Snap Fire or Overwatch.

What I could see happening is something like Markerlight allowing units that choose to shoot at the target flyer to get Skyfire for the turn.

[Mr Mystery]

Boosted BS doesn't apply to Overwatch or any other Snap Fire. Snap Fire is a Replacement of Attribute modifier (BS becomes 1), and so applies after all other modifiers...

With that, anything that modifies BS would not apply to Snap Fire or Overwatch.

What I could see happening is something like Markerlight allowing units that choose to shoot at the target flyer to get Skyfire for the turn.

That's kind of what I was meaning. As well as the usual tricks, will Marker Light hits allow you to increase your snap fire BS? Will it be capped?

[Kyban]

Beginning of the book, attributes are affected by +- before set modifiers. Markerlights would give +1 then snapfire sets it to 1 so it would be overridden.

[StarWarsDoug]

Or... markerlights allow the unit to fire at normal BS when using snap fire or over watch.
Or... Markerlights allow the unit to fire at BS -1 when using snap fire or over watch.


In other words, don't assume rules can't be changed.

[Mr Mystery]

I wonder.....will Markerlights enable Tanks to split fire? Rather than an upgrade, how about the squads with access to the network being able to direct more than just Seeker Missiles?

[DarkLink]

Currently, Markerlights are a +/- modifier, while Snap Fire is a set value modifier, so Snap Fire takes precedent.

Other rules like the Signum, however, are also a set value modifier, so it's not clear. Snap Fire sets your BS to 1, but the Signum sets it to 5. Which takes precedent? Dunno.

I would expect future codices to modify this, though.

[Mr Mystery]

Currently, Markerlights are a +/- modifier, while Snap Fire is a set value modifier, so Snap Fire takes precedent.

Other rules like the Signum, however, are also a set value modifier, so it's not clear. Snap Fire sets your BS to 1, but the Signum sets it to 5. Which takes precedent? Dunno.

I would expect future codices to modify this, though.

It's been a while since I read my Marine codex, and I simply cannot be arsed to go over to my cabinet to fish it out...but......does the Signum not specify it's used in the shooting phase? Ditto Marker Lights for that matter, I'm sure it states the phase it's used in (though it may not on account it wouldn't previously have needed to apply)

[SotonShades]

I believe what Mr Mystery is trying to get at is that the Tau wargear or some future, race specific Psychic powers may allow a squad to use a different BS when snap firing, or using overwatch (or both!) for a turn, with new shiney codex that we haven't seen/doesn't exhist yet trumping the normal rules for Snap Fire. Not increasing the squads BS for it to then be reduced back to 1. I would be surprised if Marker Lights did that (although the possibility of granting a unit Skyfire... maybe), but I wouldn't be surprised if Tau got something that could be used to that effect.

My bet though would instead be on Tzeentch Deamons/Sorcerors and/or Eldar getting a Psychic power to that effect.

I'd also guess that possessed Chaos vehicles might be able to regenerate Hull Points, rather than ignoring shaken and stunned (which have far less of an effect now).

[velox atrum]

Signum states it is used in Shooting Phase, and OverWatch (missnamed!) does not happen in Shooting Phase. So that is out.

[Cursed13]

Well Foreboding in the Divination Psychic Discipline already allows a unit to shoot with their normal BS instead of BS1 for their Overwatch, so it's not entirely out of the question that certain wargear or special rules might emulate this idea in later codices, especially gun heavy armies like Tau.

[Dalleron]

I think the next eldar codex will be the 1st codex to start "bending the rules". They seemed to bend alot of the rules in 4th/5th ed before the GK came along and broke the darn thing.

[Charistoph]

Currently, Markerlights are a +/- modifier, while Snap Fire is a set value modifier, so Snap Fire takes precedent.

Not all of them are. Seeker Launches and removing Night Fight are not +/- modifiers, but binary modifiers. It is conceivable for a Marker Light to allow a unit to have Skyfire when shooting a Flyer/FMC in the next codex. Personally, I doubt it, but I am not discounting the possibility at this point.


I would expect future codices to modify this, though.

And that is what this post is actually about. What shenanigans are new codecies going to produce?


It's been a while since I read my Marine codex, and I simply cannot be arsed to go over to my cabinet to fish it out...but......does the Signum not specify it's used in the shooting phase? Ditto Marker Lights for that matter, I'm sure it states the phase it's used in (though it may not on account it wouldn't previously have needed to apply)

Marker Lights are guns and can be fired as part of Overwatch. It's rather pointless as you can't use them to modify the BS of Snap Fire during Overwatch, can't summon Seekers, and can't Pin anyway. Also, unless the ML is Networked, the Overwatch unit can't use the tokens, either.

[Denzark]

My money is that some Gray Knights players will diminish the game via Wound Allocation Shenanigans (probably via "Look Out, Sir"). We'll see what happens...

Never heard of Gray Knights...

[sverigesson]

My major predictions:

Some characters (tyranid/chaos/others?) may get rules to avoid challenges, or abuse them in other ways. Given that this is one of the big rule additions, I think this is likely.

Dark Angels will be allowed to hold their DW terminators in reserve without them counting toward the "1/2 on table" rule, allowing for the return of all deep striking DW!

More updates at 11.

[Chris Copeland]

Never heard of Gray Knights...

Really? Major codex that has been dominating 40K for a couple of years now. Check it out.

PS Wait. I just figured it out. You are mocking me for using the American spelling of the word "gray." Well done, sir. Well done.

[Charistoph]

Some characters (tyranid/chaos/others?) may get rules to avoid challenges, or abuse them in other ways. Given that this is one of the big rule additions, I think this is likely.

I could see this for Tau, sacrificing their Drones to avoid a Challenge. A good point.


Dark Angels will be allowed to hold their DW terminators in reserve without them counting toward the "1/2 on table" rule, allowing for the return of all deep striking DW!

Doesn't any unit with the Deep Strike rule not count for that? That's why Daemons can still do their thing.

But Space Puppies still won't be able to without drop cans, cause they are still scared of the beamer.

[SotonShades]

Doesn't any unit with the Deep Strike rule not count for that? That's why Daemons can still do their thing.

But Space Puppies still won't be able to without drop cans, cause they are still scared of the beamer.

Only for units that HAVE to be deployed via deepstrike, with no option to deploy on the table normally (Drop Pods, Mysetic Spores and Codex Deamons basically)

[Drunkencorgimaster]

This thread is so depressing...and so accurate...

[Mr Mystery]

I has an Eldar prediction now!!!!

I can see Exarchs and Autarchs potentially benefitting from 'Precision Strike' on a 5 or 6 to hit. Would give them a unique boost....

[velox atrum]

Well, I am sure some will see it as a cheat/bend but the one I will be using is Allies Guard Armored Battle force with my guard and marines.. since vehicles have been made more shooty and less survivable I mean to have them shoot well for the short time they are on map !

Slick Loader and Skilled gunner are great (2 str 8 pie plates with +1 armor Pen) for each Lemun russ that does not move :) and the lowly griffon.. (pie plates with re-roll for accuracy and +1 for penetrate on vehicles with 2 dice choosing the higest )

Chimeras with Auto Cannons ! (with + 1 penetration)


of course I have to take grace of the throne as my second HQ but that is not all that bad really (to get more than 1 special rule. could go cheap and only get 1 specail per vehicle with a lower cost hq like an armored fist company commander in a salamander (dirt cheep at 55)


May even write up some fluff for my 4th company of Black Guard to have there home world provide organic armor support and eschew Space Marine Tanks.


oh.. and maticore dumps 2 d3 5" blast for first 2 turns then becomes a mobile heavy bolter or flamer.. ;)

[Uncle Nutsy]

While markerlights can't be used to adjust ballistic skill via overwatch, they can still be used to call in a seeker missile, seeing as the vehicle has nothing to do with firing the seekers. They are after all, autonomous hardware responding to a markerlight hit and can hit at BS 5, according to the FAQ.

[woodenronin]

Velox. Chimeras with autocannons? Where did you get the rules for that?