Outflank and Independent character

[Saint_Anger]

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this is answered yet, but I'm curious. Can a Chaos Lord joining a squad of chosen outflank along with the chosen squad? And also some another case: Can a wolf lord with saga of the hunter joining a squad of grey hunters outflank along with the grey hunter squad?

I'm so confused when reading the rulebook regarding outflank(p40) and Independent Character(p39). It said the unit with at least one model of Outflank can do it, but the IC rule said the special rules from the squad will not confer to IC unless specified like Stubborn. Someone please clarify it for me. :)

Thanks

[xilton]

I believe your IC can't outflank with the unit. It's like draigo making a palladin squad scouts but can't join them in doing so.

[Saint_Anger]

I believe your IC can't outflank with the unit. It's like draigo making a palladin squad scouts but can't join them in doing so.

I really want to believe it that way. But the IC rule on page 39, it gives some example in the Stubborn special rule. And Infiltrate, Scout, Outflank, Stubborn all contains the following sentence that confuse me : "Units that contain at least one model with this special rule...":confused:

[Luke Licens]

I really want to believe it that way. But the IC rule on page 39, it gives some example in the Stubborn special rule. And Infiltrate, Scout, Outflank, Stubborn all contains the following sentence that confuse me : "Units that contain at least one model with this special rule...":confused:

It looks like it was written that way so that an IC with one of the said special rules can confer it upon a unit he joins. That being said, by RAW, these rules are confered to characters joining the unit, or to the unit joined by the character.

If:
At least one model in a unit has USR X
Then:
Entire unit gains the effects specified in USR x

So, yes, your Chaos Lord gains the benefit of Outflank if he joins your Chosen who have it, and your Wolf Lord can Outflank with your Grey Hunters as long as somebody has Outflank.


I believe your IC can't outflank with the unit. It's like draigo making a palladin squad scouts but can't join them in doing so.

Why not? Is it explicitely forbidden somewhere?

Now, I will say that this is predicated on 2 assumptions:
1) Joining a unit means joining a unit. Example; If shooting at a unit has the possibility to wound the IC, then he must be part of the unit.
2) An IC can join a unit while both are in reserves. This one is a bit shakier. I don't have the new book, so if someone could check that out?

[EnglishInquisition]

P39 under Independent Character rules it actually says that special rules aren't conferred from unit to IC and vice versa- UNLESS the specific rules states otherwise!
Outflank does state otherwise so no problem.

[xilton]

damn it, I always have scouting and infiltrate mixed up.

[david5th]

Doesnt Outflank say "that any unit that contains at least one model with this special rule" .

and

Stubborn say "when a unit with a least one model with this special rule".

Neither seem to mention IC and yet one is different from another with regards to IC's?

[xilton]

If you look at infiltrate, the rule specifies that an IC can't compared to the others this rule is omitted.

[PhoenixFlame]

From over here (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=23171), the magic words are

...any unit that contains at least one model with this special rule... so every special rule containing the above applies to units containing ICs as long as any single model in the unit (IC, character, or standard) has the special rule in question.

It seems to fit with the pg 39 box regarding ICs, specifically the sub-heading Special Rules

Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit's special rules are not conferred

So rules like Stealth, Stubborn, Outflank, etc. are all conferred upon and can be conferred by the unit/IC for the time that the IC is part of (aka joined to) the unit. Further since ICs may be placed in reserve as part of a unit held in reserve they are able to benefit from this in that context as well.
As noted on pg 124 under the Preparing Reserves sub-heading, second paragraph.

First, he must specify to the opponent if any of his Independent
Characters left in reserve are joining a unit, in which case they will arrive together. Similarly, the player must specify if any units in reserve are embarked upon any Transport vehicles in reserve, in which case they will arrive together.

Infiltrate however is something of an exception in that it's more of a one way street, allowing the IC to confer the rule upon the unit but not vice versa as specifically noted.

An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of infiltrators during deployment. ^--- From pg 30 of the BRB, last paragraph under the Infiltrate heading.

So the USRs this applies to are very case by case but yes there are several rules (Stealth, Stubborn, and Outflank being examples) where such rules are fully shared. Also worth noting that unless specified in the unit entry within the applicable codex FAQ these shared rules also function when joining/being joined by Battle Brothers Units/ICs.

Cheers,
Phoenix

EDIT: Hey look now there's a front page article (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/07/40k-tips-and-tricks-for-surviving-6th.html) addressing some of this :)

[Krayd]

So, here's the big question (for me):

Inflltrators get the outflank USR.

However, IC's without infiltrate cannot deploy with Infiltrators.

Does this only apply to infiltrators that are 'infiltrating'? Can you reserve infiltrators under the 'outflank' rule instead, and thus, be able to attach a non-infiltrator IC when doing so?

I've seen arguments for and against this. I honestly don't think that it will be resolved without a GW FAQ.

[xilton]

If you're not going to use the rule and come in as a normal reserve, I believe you can do so because the rule doesn't apply since you're not using it for deployment..