Wound Allocation Guide for 6th Edition

[Ender]

Please tear this up if you see something incorrect. I am trying to make a guide to have at the table to help speed up wound allocations.

Remember that one "Look Out, Sir!" can be made per wound allocated (p16).

This is based off of Crazy Dave's explanation of wounds that seems to be quite comprehensive. His explanation can be found here (http://fortykwc.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/168-wound-allocation/page__st__40).

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n634/Ender323/WoundAllocationGuidev2.jpg

[xilton]

Step 3, I believe the look out sir may be done once for every wound not just once per round. That's why many cry that paladins, ork bikers and other of the type are still "kinda" getting the wound allocation without losing a model with 2 wounds allocating using the look out sir rule.

[Ender]

which step three were you referring to? I believe for both same and different saves they both have that a "Look Out, Sir!" can be done for each allocated wound. Kinda broke imho...

[xilton]

First one, sorry. and yes, it is per wound. So lets say you have a squad with an IC in front getting hit with 4 wounds. You can do 4 x look out sir if you want to unless the IC dies first.

[Tabletop Warrior]

Show me the rules where it states a unit of nobs is a unit of characters. No way. No look out sir for them.

When my Wolf Guard leaves the unit to join a squad of Grey Hunters, HE becomes a character. But if he is in his unit of Wolf Guard, he is not.

Look out sirs with multple wound models should not be spread out among multile models. Once a model begins taking wounds, wounds continue to be allocated to that model until he is dead.

[Ender]

page 413, the reference section

[Nachodragon]

Show me the rules where it states a unit of nobs is a unit of characters. No way. No look out sir for them.

When my Wolf Guard leaves the unit to join a squad of Grey Hunters, HE becomes a character. But if he is in his unit of Wolf Guard, he is not.

Look out sirs with multple wound models should not be spread out among multile models. Once a model begins taking wounds, wounds continue to be allocated to that model until he is dead.

The reference section on page 413 will tell you all you need to know about who is a character.

Nobs, Paladins, and Wolf Guard are indeed characters. Re-read the FAQ for Space wolves, they clarify that he is still a character when he joins a unit. The reason for this is because the wording of the space wolves codex is old enough that it needed to be updated for 6th ed. The wolf guard is a character in a unit of WG or when attached to another unit.

Now, for those units that are all characters the front model does indeed continue to take wounds until dead. BUT, for each wound (or unsaved in the case of all the same save) if the front model is a character they can use 'Look out, sir' for each wound.

Do I think Nobs, Pallies, and Puppies should be able to spread the love? No. But that won't stop my opponents from doing it, and I just have to continue shooting them until they all die.

[Bean]

Looks good, though you might want to add in some quick-rolling advice, as well--how to lump wounds into acceptable groups that can be rolled all at once (which is still possible, even with multi-save units).

[DarkLink]

Don't forget quickrolling Look Out Sir, as well. There are some intricacies there.

[Druid]

Could someone please post where in the rulebook it says you need to take your lookout sir rolls before rolling any relevant saves if you have a mixed save unit. As far as I can tell, you make your lookout sir rolls after you make any relevant saves.

[Ender]

pages 15 and 16. the key is to focus on when "wounds are allocated" as this is when "Look Out, Sir!" is rolled.

[DarkLink]

Right. When you have similar saves, you roll all of them together, then allocated wounds based on how many failed saves you have and which models are closest. You allocate the actual wound after rolling for saves. If you have mixed saves, you allocate one wound to the first model, roll it, rinse and repeat. Here you allocate the wound to a particular model before rolling saves.

[xilton]

Could someone please post where in the rulebook it says you need to take your lookout sir rolls before rolling any relevant saves if you have a mixed save unit. As far as I can tell, you make your lookout sir rolls after you make any relevant saves.

I have trouble with this one also. An unsaved wound is a save roll you missed and not a wound you didn't roll for save yet. This means that you're look out sir is done after you have a wound and the rule simply puts the wound (not saveable in any way) on another model. I'm pretty sure that's what they mean which would make this rule a bit less strong and make some wound allocation on 2w models (aka paladins) haters happier. There's another thread opened on this one and the way I see it, mixed saves have nothing to do with it wither. Please read my post on there and you'll see what I mean. You could basically do same saves the same way as mixed saves and it works exactly the same. you make your saves before doing look out sir.

Does anyone else feel the name is not good. The character is dodging in his unit and not someone jumping out to save him. I would rather call it,"Hide like a coward"

[WickedGood]

The look out sir rule says:
"When a wound(or unsaved wound) is ALLOCATED to one of your characters,........he's allowed a Look Out, Sir attempt." ( Pg 16 main rule book)

Now read how a wound is ALLOCATED:
For units with the exact same armor save:
1. " Take Saving Throws" (Pg 15 main rule book)
2. "ALLOCATE unsaved wounds and remove casualties" (Pg 15 main rule book)

So in cases where all the armor saves are identical you allocate after saves have been made. At this point a character can try to LO,S.

For units with MIXED saves (Draigo Paladins, Archon Shadow Fields, etc)
1. "ALLOCATE wounds" (Pg 15 main rule book)
2. Take saves & Remove Casualties (Pg 15 main rule book)

So in the case of mixed saves you must choose to allocate prior to taking the save.

This seems very clear to me. There is still some room for abuse as it appears fuzzy that multiple characters in a character unit can take the LO,S wound.

[xilton]

For units with MIXED saves (Draigo Paladins, Archon Shadow Fields, etc)
1. "ALLOCATE wounds" (Pg 15 main rule book)
2. Take saves & Remove Casualties (Pg 15 main rule book)


That's where people get it wrong. You don't allocate all of them, you do it one by one until the closest dies. This is also on page 15. This one has been cleared in many threads so why are people talking about look out sir making it any different. the wording "allocate wounds" doesn't represent all the wounds in terms of lets give them all then see. You can't anyway since you MUST take them 1 by one if your closest is a single model with hiis diff save. The multi save rule just tells you how to allocate. It never mentions that LOS works differently. People need to stop making rules where there is none. LOS is LOS. I know GW is not very good (dunno why, should be easy) at rules writing but this one is clear to me and many others.

Lets say you have draigo with pallies to make it the popular subject of discussion for wound allocation. They receive lets say 5 wounds to save. draigo is the closest. each Wound will be allocated to him one by one until he dies. This is also mentioned on P.15. Out of the pool take the 1st wound, give it to him. Save it. Misses then look out sir. You don't allocate all the wounds then decide. It's one on one basis. The only difference between having multiple saves and all the same is that you do it 1 wound at a time instead of all at once to save time. The only circumstance where I see a difference is when you character has the same save as the rest and even then, it's still the same thing, he gets a chance to not get wounded at all. Having draigo in front doesn't change the way you allocate look out sir. All it does is that he'll get the hit until he dies. LOS is still the same. Like I mentioned in another thread, you can't have 2 versions of a rule unless it is mentioned which it is not. Character (or diff save) or not, ducking is still ducking and there's only 1 way of doing it.

Pretty sure we'll get a FAQ on this to clarify it. Personally, this rule shouldn't exist in 40k. Marines don't duck in the unit, they stand and fight lol It just doesn't make sense fluff wise. Well ok, maybe eldars/Tau would duck :P

[DarkLink]

You don't allocate all of them, you do it one by one until the closest dies.

What do you think allocate means?

[Aventine]

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.

[xilton]

no failure lol I just don't see it. I know you guys do, but I don't. why would rule change because someone has a different save. just doesn't make sense.

Darklink, allocation is before saves but since you do it one by one, the look out sir is done before the next wound. But I still see it after the save lol Not trying to beat anyone here of course.

I think this will need to be FAQed. It's just to easy to see it both ways or both. Some may think you decide if you do it before or after. I'll still sleep tonight lol anyhow, I think both sides have made their points and we'll just have to see in time. If I'm wrong, I'll live with it and if I'm right, I certainly won't bother people about it. I love you guys. Everyone is generally honest with others.

I should of used "like" and not "love" right! lol

[Nachodragon]

Read pg 15 again.

You first have a pool of wounds. How you allocate them depends on saves.

All the same
You roll all of the saves for the wounds in the pool. This makes is faster as it doesn't matter who will end up with the wound, it would have been caused either way. You then allocate the unsaved wounds. During this allocation you roll LOS if you want.

Mixed Saves
You still have a wound pool, but now they are just wounds. You allocate the wound to the closest model. You need to do this to ensure all models get their proper save. If you want to LOS at this time you can. Otherwise you roll the models save. If passed you allocate the next and can LOS again if you want. Continue on like so.


This is why LOS says wound or unsaved wound. It depends on the save.

Could it have been written better? Yes, probably by a fourth grader, but that is another issue.

[xilton]

Well I won't start debating GWs ways of saying things for sure lol And don't compare me with a 4th grader please. I never insulted anyone and I expect the same from others. If that was the intent of course. If not, I apologize for supposing it.

Nothing else to say about this. We all have given it our best to explain it as we see it.

[WickedGood]

That's where people get it wrong. You don't allocate all of them, you do it one by one until the closest dies. This is also on page 15. This one has been cleared in many threads so why are people talking about look out sir making it any different. the wording "allocate wounds" doesn't represent all the wounds in terms of lets give them all then see. You can't anyway since you MUST take them 1 by one if your closest is a single model with hiis diff save. The multi save rule just tells you how to allocate. It never mentions that LOS works differently. People need to stop making rules where there is none. LOS is LOS. I know GW is not very good (dunno why, should be easy) at rules writing but this one is clear to me and many others.

Lets say you have draigo with pallies to make it the popular subject of discussion for wound allocation. They receive lets say 5 wounds to save. draigo is the closest. each Wound will be allocated to him one by one until he dies. This is also mentioned on P.15. Out of the pool take the 1st wound, give it to him. Save it. Misses then look out sir. You don't allocate all the wounds then decide. It's one on one basis. The only difference between having multiple saves and all the same is that you do it 1 wound at a time instead of all at once to save time. The only circumstance where I see a difference is when you character has the same save as the rest and even then, it's still the same thing, he gets a chance to not get wounded at all. Having draigo in front doesn't change the way you allocate look out sir. All it does is that he'll get the hit until he dies. LOS is still the same. Like I mentioned in another thread, you can't have 2 versions of a rule unless it is mentioned which it is not. Character (or diff save) or not, ducking is still ducking and there's only 1 way of doing it.

Pretty sure we'll get a FAQ on this to clarify it. Personally, this rule shouldn't exist in 40k. Marines don't duck in the unit, they stand and fight lol It just doesn't make sense fluff wise. Well ok, maybe eldars/Tau would duck :P

Or just skim them.

You stated above exactly what I am saying. There is no interpretation here. The writers actually made a confusing rule pretty straight forward here by the proper use of the English language and the consistent use of specific terms such as ALLOCATION. There are two completely different procedures for allocating wounds. In units of a single save it is all done at once. In units with multiple saves it is done by the different saves. The Lo,S rule applies in two different places becuase of this. This is really cut and dry. Say whatever you like but anyone letting you decide when to take your Lo,S rule (before or after saves is wrong). You may play for fun like that at your house but any major tournament is absolutely going to play it the way it was outlined based upon whether or not your unit has multiple armor saves.

[xilton]

I never said I was deciding if it was before or after. Anyhow, this was clarified in the other thread. thanks to all that responded. Really appreciated

[Archon]

Barrage weapons will allocate the wounds from the center of the template. So much a fact. But here is my question:

Do I remove from the center even when the barrage weapon fires dircet?

In my opinion all the specail rules from barrage a only used, when the weapon fires indirect.

What do you think?

[Melon-neko]

Barrage weapons will allocate the wounds from the center of the template. So much a fact. But here is my question:

Do I remove from the center even when the barrage weapon fires dircet?

In my opinion all the specail rules from barrage a only used, when the weapon fires indirect.

What do you think?

I think you always do. Barrage says you fire like a blast template with the following exceptions: (3 bullet points.) Indirect fire lets you target models you don't have LoS to or within your minimum range with the disadvantage of not subtracting your BS from scatter. The wound allocation is a separate bullet point and no where does it specify that the special rules are only used when using indirect fire LoS option.

I do not think that barrage weapons have 2 modes of fire, they always fire barrage, but indirect fire just gives them alternate LoS options.

[Archon]

The entry for barrage says, the follow the rules vor Blastmarker, with the following excpetions:

The first bulletpoint starts with: "The can fire indirectly"

If you fire indirectly it makes sense that you remove form the center and that a vehicle is hit on top (therefore the sidearmour is used).

But if you fire direct, all of the above makes no sense, so i think in direct mode barrage is like a normal blastweapon.

If all this benefits are given even if you fire direct, its a bit than a bit too mighty:eek: The only cases when you choose to fire indirect is: No LoS is given or the target is under minimum range.