Two 6th Ed. quirks

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Nightfighting: In 6th ed. Nightfighting, units within 12" can be shot normally, units 12-24" away get Stealth against shooting and units 24-36" away get Shrouded.

This means that units with Stealth get no benefit from Nightfighting when they're 12-24" away, and a unit with Shrouded gets no benefit when it's 24-36" (but it does get a benefit at 12-24" away).

Tyranids and Gun Emplacements/Emplaced Weapons: According to the FAQ, Tyranids may not manually fire "emplaced weapons". Emplaced Weapons are a feature of Buildings such as the Bastion or Fortress of Redemption, and may auto-fire at BS2.

However, Emplaced Weapons are a (RAW) separate thing from Gun Emplacements. Gun Emplacements, not Emplaced Weapons, are bought with the Aegis Defense Line. Gun Emplacements can only be manually fired and may not auto-fire, but there is no RAW rule against 'nids manually firing them. Rules oversight, or is it intentional, so the Tyranids can benefit from Gun Emplacements?

[kjolnir]

I'd say the rule on the purchased emplaced weapons is an oversight. I as a Tyranid player do not plan on taking advantage, either, or ever purchasing fortifications, for that matter.

[xilton]

Nightfighting: In 6th ed. Nightfighting, units within 12" can be shot normally, units 12-24" away get Stealth against shooting and units 24-36" away get Shrouded.

This means that units with Stealth get no benefit from Nightfighting when they're 12-24" away, and a unit with Shrouded gets no benefit when it's 24-36" (but it does get a benefit at 12-24" away.

If I recall, it's cumulative. So a unit with stealth will get his +1 added to what ever distance you were. if you were at 15", you get that 6++ for nightfighting and your stealth gives it 5++ now and so on. At least that's how my group saw that.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I'd say the rule on the purchased emplaced weapons is an oversight. I as a Tyranid player do not plan on taking advantage, either, or ever purchasing fortifications, for that matter.Personally, I'd let the 'nid player pick, but chances are the developers didn't mean for Gun Emplacements and Emplaced Weapons to be separate, yeah.


If I recall, it's cumulative. So a unit with stealth will get his +1 added to what ever distance you were. if you were at 15", you get that 6++ for nightfighting and your stealth gives it 5++ now and so on. At least that's how my group saw that.That's the sensible way of playing it, that the Stealth and Shrouded granted by Nightfighting are cumulative with "natural" Stealth and Shrouded, but the basic rules are "Give this unit with Stealth a second Stealth", which wouldn't do anything (if it did, joining a Commissar with Camo Cloak to Vet.s with Camo Cloak would result in the Vet.s getting +2 to their Cover Save, I believe).

[xilton]

There's another thread out there talking about camo cloaks and they all agree they do keep their special rule in night fighting same principal as lets say an assassin. I'm guessing this will be part of FAQs when they come out in a couple months.

[Tynskel]

that makes no sense. How can you be shrouded twice! So, does that mean I can have

Master Master Crafted Weapon?
Do I get to fire at twice as many fliers with my Skyfire Skyfire weapons?

If you get a rule, it applies once.

[kjolnir]

that makes no sense. How can you be shrouded twice! So, does that mean I can have

Master Master Crafted Weapon?
Do I get to fire at twice as many fliers with my Skyfire Skyfire weapons?

If you get a rule, it applies once.

It's not completely without precedent.

For example, more than one Tyranid unit provides a bonus to reserve rolls. And if you have them both in your army, they stack.

[xilton]

that makes no sense. How can you be shrouded twice! So, does that mean I can have

Master Master Crafted Weapon?
Do I get to fire at twice as many fliers with my Skyfire Skyfire weapons?

If you get a rule, it applies once.

Depends, see it like this in real life for example, a soldier has camo. I bet his camo is more effective at night. See me coming at. That's the simple logic behind what people are thinking about units that have the stealth/shrouded rule and apply the night fighting rules. You have to admit it makes sense. Now rule wise, meh, I do agree, a unit that has stealth and has it again is the same thing and not twice. Badly explained rule once again from GW or intented? Wait for the FAQ if there's enough controversy on this one lol I think it was badly explained. I see it normal that a unit that has better cover saves get them even better in night conditions where I think they stack like kjolnir's example.

[EnglishInquisition]

Both Stealth and Shrouding are cumulative (p41 & 42).
It seems daft that a unit with the ability'stealth' could add it to a benefit for being shrouded (24-36" away in night fight), but can't get a benefit if it gains stealth from being only 12-24" away?
I think they can stack with themselves.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Both Stealth and Shrouding are cumulative (p41 & 42).
It seems daft that a unit with the ability'stealth' could add it to a benefit for being shrouded (24-36" away in night fight), but can't get a benefit if it gains stealth from being only 12-24" away?
I think they can stack with themselves.
Assuming Stealth stacks with itself, then if I equipped a Commissar with a Camo Cloak (granting Stealth, a USR which Ind. Characters share with their units) and added it to a unit of Veterans with Camo Cloaks, those Veterans would have Stealth twice, giving them a +2 bonus to their Cover Saves. That seems wrong.

People should definitely play Night-fighting as though NF-Stealth stacks with normal Stealth, and NF-Shrouded with normal Shrouded, but it helps to be aware of the quirk.

[thecactusman17]

That's no quirk. HERE'S a quirk mate: in night fighting, units entirely beyond 36 inches and hit by a scattering blast weapon get no cover save modifier!

I like to think of it as the models not seeing the incoming attacks and being caught unawares.

[xilton]

ahaha, I never thought of that one.

[The AKH]

Assuming Stealth stacks with itself, then if I equipped a Commissar with a Camo Cloak (granting Stealth, a USR which Ind. Characters share with their units) and added it to a unit of Veterans with Camo Cloaks, those Veterans would have Stealth twice, giving them a +2 bonus to their Cover Saves. That seems wrong.

People should definitely play Night-fighting as though NF-Stealth stacks with normal Stealth, and NF-Shrouded with normal Shrouded, but it helps to be aware of the quirk.

Camo Cloaks were changed in the FAQ to grant +1 to cover saves, not the Stealth USR.

[Tynskel]

It's not completely without precedent.

For example, more than one Tyranid unit provides a bonus to reserve rolls. And if you have them both in your army, they stack.

That's two different special rules.
Note that if you have multiple of the same unit, they do not stack. It is when you have two different rules they do stack.

Shrouded is one special rule. You cannot get shrouded twice. The reason Stealth and Shrouded stack is because they are 2 different rules. The camo cloak is just a flat +1, so that stacks as well. So, if you are out in the open, with shrouded, stealth, and a camo cloack, you have a 3+ cover save. When you add night fight... you have a 3+ cover save, because you don't get shrouded and stealth again.

[Aramel]

That's no quirk. HERE'S a quirk mate: in night fighting, units entirely beyond 36 inches and hit by a scattering blast weapon get no cover save modifier!

I like to think of it as the models not seeing the incoming attacks and being caught unawares.

No, the rule specifically says that units beyond 36 can be hit by a scatter, however, they receive the same benefit from the night fighting rules as the original target. In most cases this will be shrouded. As to stacking, NF either gives you the "shraouded" or "stealth" special tules, which can stack with each other. Obviously you can only have a particular special rule once. This means that stealth gives no further benefit between 12 and 24 during NF.

Logically if, like Eldar Pathfinders, it simply says "+2 to cover save" then it will stack with the special rule.