Dealing with the Nerf Bat

[Denzark]

I have just been reading the thread on reserves, and thinking on how we actually can deal with the Nerf Bat, particularly if 6th has nixed your army and tactic, ie all reserve Valk etc. I sympathise, my Chaos Mech assault army whose thing was getting Kharn and Beserkers in 2nd turn then furious charging to hit at I5+, can no longer do this. FC nerfed, Gorechild nerfed, Metal Bawkses and Defilers prone to death by Glancing.

So how does one deal with the Nerf Bat? I mean beyond internet ranting.

My option has been to adjust my Army list, I now run Slaanesh (for I5) until the new Codex comes out, there is bound to be the usual buff every codex to date has. But what can you do when your (IG Drop) army doesn't have that number of builds? (Gotta admit CSM can run in about a dozen ways.)

Your usual opponent/club etc may house rule back to how it was. NP.

However, you've got to see the other side. What has knackered you may be the only way an opponent gets a win against your army because of some mechanic or other.

Why has GW changed something? The answers are as follows:

1. Because they felt it restored a perceived unbalance.
2. In anticipation of some new rules/codex or something when it will become apparent later.
3. It was unintentional - it was unforeseen what the effect would be.

So if 1, unlucky, deal with it. If 2, patience is key. If 3, as per 2 but you may wish to write to the GW people pointing it out, if enough people do it may make change quicker.

In the mean time, I think rage quitting, selling your army or trying to get stores/clubs to play in a way AGAINST the published rules just because they don't sit well with your army, is a bit lame. Especially regarding flyer mechanics, some of the most cost effective in sixth, against what most have little defence.

Just a thought, how do you plan on dealing with the Nerf Bat?

[Black Hydra]

Well for reserve armies it's going to be difficult but not impossible. Really just start with one unit on the table. Isn't it the rule that says anything that has to start on the table 50% of it has to. So in other words, get one infantry platoon for IG and sit them on an objective. Everything else on Valks or Vendettas and you're fine since they have to start in reserves therefore your army can deploy that way.

Also, is it just me or has the Nidzilla army list made a comeback? With assault somewhat reliable, flying MC's kicking ***, and regular MC's getting 5+ cover saves easier, it seems having big Nidz is the way to go. Can anyone confirm this? It would be exciting to field a bunch of Trygons and Tyrannofexes.

[DarkLink]

Isn't it the rule that says anything that has to start on the table 50% of it has to. So in other words, get one infantry platoon for IG and sit them on an objective. Everything else on Valks or Vendettas and you're fine since they have to start in reserves therefore your army can deploy that way.


Kind of. Place aside anything that must start in reserves. If you have a dedicated transport like a Drop Pod, then you can also set aside the squad you purchased with it.

Look at the remainder of your army. 50% or more must start in reserve.

Since the Valkyrie isn't a dedicated transport for anything, you can't set aside another unit along with it and ignore the 50% rule.

[antennafarm]

it doesn't matter why, it just is.

just roll with it. maybe try something new out for a change.

i just use it as a reason to become a better general - get reliant on one unit or tactic, when it gets destroyed or floundered, you've gotta be able to cope.

[Freelancer]

I play Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Blood angels each army i have a pretty much a feildable 2k points of.

the nerf of mech makes my blood angels army a joke... 3 preds LR redeemer 3 plazorbacks 3 speeders i am simply glanced to death parking lot has been nuked.

dark eldar to me are useless......i ran an all kabalite force with 6 raiders 3 venoms and 3 ravagers ....bolters can decimate my armor....again my paper airplanes are now tissue paper making dark eldar mech useless.

Eldar I play saim hann and hasn't taken that big of a nerf...its actually the least nerfed of the armies I have fielded. So I will concentrate on building a playable 6th army with them.

So to me its more of which armies will stay on the shelf for 5 years untill the next edition comes out...hull points was a bad idea... there just should have been more penalties for taking a penetrating hit and left the glance chart alone.....but they make the game so its no use. As of now any army that used Mech as its primary focus is no longer competitive....you can still take it for fun but with the new rules vehicles are gonna get chimped up brutally and fairly quickly.

The work around : Bikes, t5+ , monsterous creatures, beasts and air all got a huge buff in this edition...so take what works instead of what doesent your gonna start seeing a shift back to all infantry armies very soon as vehicles are no longer reliable.

[Black Hydra]

Kind of. Place aside anything that must start in reserves. If you have a dedicated transport like a Drop Pod, then you can also set aside the squad you purchased with it.

Look at the remainder of your army. 50% or more must start in reserve.

Since the Valkyrie isn't a dedicated transport for anything, you can't set aside another unit along with it and ignore the 50% rule.

So this means Elysians are going to be extremely happy. Right?

@Freelancer: don't be too pessimistic. Predators are still pretty good. That front armor 13 is still tough to crack and the only 2 things that can reliably damage it aren't reliable anymore. Plasma can overheat and Hydras have to Snapshot at ground targets. Run 3 together and cover their sides so only 2 can be threatened at best.

[Tepogue]

The changes are deliberate and all designed to sell models. PERIOD,

Anyone who thinks different is <insert all sorts of words about denial and delusions>

Here's a quick sample of GW flip flops

3rd ed - Blood Angel Rhinos moving 18 inches, letting assault troops jump out of the front of the tank (no access points)

4th Ed - Transports are rolling coffins

5th Ed - the unbreakable bunkers of death

6th - welcome to Hull Points, no assaulting out of Rhinos.

Complain all you want, but it won't make any difference. This edition is not the last edition, get over it. Adapt, Improvise and Overcome. At this moment it's Flyers particularly IG and Necron who have the upper hand. Space Marine Players who have not bought flyers will now have to buy them to keep up. And the Xenos will suffer as normal.

[DarkLink]

So this means Elysians are going to be extremely happy. Right?


Dunno, but regular guard won't be able to do the whole reserves thing.

[Black Hydra]

Dunno, but regular guard won't be able to do the whole reserves thing.

I'm pretty sure Elysians can take Valks as dedicated transports. That's why I mention them. Given that FW armies will be allowed as standard, I see Elysians gaining some more popularity.

[Denzark]

The changes are deliberate and all designed to sell models. PERIOD,

Anyone who thinks different is <insert all sorts of words about denial and delusions>

Here's a quick sample of GW flip flops

3rd ed - Blood Angel Rhinos moving 18 inches, letting assault troops jump out of the front of the tank (no access points)

4th Ed - Transports are rolling coffins

5th Ed - the unbreakable bunkers of death

6th - welcome to Hull Points, no assaulting out of Rhinos.

Complain all you want, but it won't make any difference. This edition is not the last edition, get over it. Adapt, Improvise and Overcome. At this moment it's Flyers particularly IG and Necron who have the upper hand. Space Marine Players who have not bought flyers will now have to buy them to keep up. And the Xenos will suffer as normal.

Tepogue - I would agree - except I cannot reconcile how doing this to vehicles will sell more - and they have been an expensive and good seller to date.

[eldargal]

I'm just going to stick with Dark Eldar 'til Eldar get a new codex next year. I'd rather do that than play a build I don't consider particularly fluffy or fun (footdar).

[Wolfshade]

Dealing with the nerf bat or my internet list doesn't work ;)
To quote someone from another thread (maybe technically paraphrasing)

Wake up, you're not in 5th edition anymore
Too often people run the same internet lists and when things get nerfed it means that their list no longer works. The rule changes and tweaks were brought about naïvely to soley bring about a balance, cynically to soley bring about more model sales. I am sure that GW being a company whose profit is derrived from us buying models (rather than playing) that there is an element of the later, and I hope at least some of the former.
So the cookie cutter list doesn't work as efficiently as it did before, but that is ok, this is a new edition, maybe the time to start a collection rather than a list. I for one get quite bored playing against the same list week in week out. It's 6th, I am sure in a couple of weeks/months then people will start to work out the new "meta", and the "nerf bat" will be heard with the coming of each new 'dex

[the jeske]

Tepogue - I would agree - except I cannot reconcile how doing this to vehicles will sell more - and they have been an expensive and good seller to date.
oh I can do that for you.

imagine BA player using a mecha or hybrid list [two viable ones from BA dex]. mecha [or to be more precise razorback class transports] is nerfed . night fight , first blood etc that realy drives you away from playing razorbacks . So what do you do ? well you take up flyers[because they are the thing in 6th] . you take jump packs [bufffed a lot] , you may start thinking about other bikes then attack bikes [and if you werent using at least 2x3 attack bikes you will now] . But that is not all . You look start looking for stuff from other armies because of the ally rules. What is the weak side of a melee jump force ? long range support . In the old days there was nothing to do about it , but now you plop an IG platon full of hvy weapons added a hydrad and your list just got better.

the thing is to do all this you have to . Buy more jump dudes [DC are good in 5th they were bad . good chance you dont have them , you will not have enough jump pack dudes for a full jump pack army . you wont have bikes , if you played mecha you wont have sang guard etc] you have to buy the IG part of the list[you wont have those unless you also played IG] . So it generates ton of sells . + it leaves the armies always open . it wasnt like that since 2ed . in the 3/4/5th if you build an optimal list you could be done with buying stuff for the army , it didnt make any sense to buy models that would have no synergy with the list/wouldnt fit points wise/would be just plain bad. but in the 6th? what if you decided you want to try necron/tau/other marines/GK as ally instead of IG ? you will have the same build the ally will do the same job , but you will have to buy another codex and more models . Huge rise of sale . something like this can be done for every army other then tyranids.



as for what to do . Buy models that work in the new edition . If your army style doesnt work now , switch the army . If your playing to stay for more then an edition know that razors will be good next edition . ah and read the rule book , after reading the rule book you will know what you want in the army , even if you may not know what codex actualy has the stuff. If you do then pick the dex has most of the stuff that is good. A lot of psykers check . Access to flyers ally and not ally . check. multi wound characters check. good shoting , ok melee . check . Ways to ignore stuff like first blood[tough stuff/flyers/big foot squads of terminators/weak stuff in reservs]check . ways to modify FoC/buff units/buffing/debuffing reservs with or without ally used . check. ignoring night fight. check . this is the stuff an army needs to dominate 6th ed at its start.

[Wolfshade]

Or look at your XXk pt army and think, hmm, what is new, and how many do I need to fill out all available FOC slots with them :)

[Denzark]

@ Mr Jeske - I think there is a 2nd/3rd order analysis to be made here, although not sure what. Yes you are to some extent correct - new rules make different things better = buy those different things.

But then look at the cost of tooling up a vehicle kit, the fact like Russ/Rhino/CHimera the chassis does several models. Add in the fact that these are necessary for your Forgeworld division. Big kits, bigger costs to create, bigger bottom line the other side.

So why then run the risk of them going out of vogue for the new 'better things'?

[Renegade]

Well I am keeping the IG mech rolling, as I dont have to start in them and they are cover when wrecked. Chims become light tanks to cover my big tanks as well. May insist at playing at 2k so I can fit in flyers just to give myself more of a chance.

I am surprised DE/E players are crying, they have a bucket load of skimmers so get jink saves, as do Tau. DE can assault from all their transports, so are doing better than Imperial armies in that respect ( I should get a Gorgon to compensate :p).

[eldargal]

Dark Eldar are fine, apart from being slightly weaker in assault most of the other things make up for it. For Eldar, though, well our transports were overpriced before and now they can't transport stuff as effectively AND are more fragile. It's true everyone elses vehicles are more fragile too, but generally they are much, much cheaper or have other benefits. The wave serpent has none, its use is now extremely limited and as a result mech eldar has taken a huge hit.

[Renegade]

Dark Eldar are fine, apart from being slightly weaker in assault most of the other things make up for it. For Eldar, though, well our transports were overpriced before and now they can't transport stuff as effectively AND are more fragile. It's true everyone elses vehicles are more fragile too, but generally they are much, much cheaper or have other benefits. The wave serpent has none, its use is now extremely limited and as a result mech eldar has taken a huge hit.

Hold on, they get saves when they do move, saves when they don't and ignore terrain they pass over... and some how these are over priced and fragile? They are armour 12 front and side, that means immune to bolters and most other infantry guns other than the few heavy and special weapons, and the strongest of them still need 4s or more. The only exception is Necrons, and they just got a huge boost this edition anyway.

Eldar mech is still one of the most survivable of the mech builds.

[Lemt]

My all-reserve Tyranids are hurt, but I can do some things to still play my army.
My Mawlocs start in the field as well hidden as possible, and dive once something else appears. Flyrant/Parasite/Gargoyles also start on the table, partially to provide synapse and to help grant cover saves.
Ymgarls still good.
Genestealers are no longer viable, since you can't assault when you outflank, so I'll have to change them for something else.
Doom still drops with his spore.

[the jeske]

@ Mr Jeske - I think there is a 2nd/3rd order analysis to be made here, although not sure what. Yes you are to some extent correct - new rules make different things better = buy those different things.

But then look at the cost of tooling up a vehicle kit, the fact like Russ/Rhino/CHimera the chassis does several models. Add in the fact that these are necessary for your Forgeworld division. Big kits, bigger costs to create, bigger bottom line the other side.

So why then run the risk of them going out of vogue for the new 'better things'?


well first thing is , they realy do think they are making the best game in the world[as in they have the most dudes that buy their stuff no matter what the dudes or GW do/want].

second thing is secondary market , the those models from dudes that drop after a year+ have to go somewhere . this means that the longer an edition is there and the more meq stuff they make , the easier it is to start the game without buying from GW . GW hates that . But that do know that If they make people buy specific stuff[by making it what they call cooler and what I call a lot better] , then when the edition switch comes a lot of stuff wont find new buyers .

Would a newb buy eldar FW stuff now ? 4-5 razors ? 4-6 chimera ? nope , because those units arent optimal for this edition . He will go after the good stuff .which was bad edition before , so the secondary market for those is small , so people have to buy from GW one way or another. that or sculpt own models.


there is no risk ,the only risk was 2ed to 3ed , but they got lucky then+being monopolist helped. a lot of people played 3ed while hating it a lot . it worked every edition switch till now ,what could kill something like w4k off is actualy staying the same . Imagine 6th ed with no seriouse power shift in builds/armies , till the next codex comes out. the drop in games would be realy big , even if the first dex would have been sm.

To be honest this is why in core I dont understand fluff players. Sure they say people buy stuff for looks ,the ability to covert/resculpt and am not saying that some people dont . But If that was all true , then GW would never do rules changes like they do every edition . If the sales were based around the "coolness" factor the older armies [IG/SW] should have bad sales end of 5th [which they didnt have] , in fact nids being newer should have more players[which we know wasnt the case] .






Eldar mech is still one of the most survivable of the mech builds. to make it short. no scoring in transport , dead when out of transport. hull points mean falcons are no longer soaking up the fire power from 1k pts to get destroyed. they cant deploy and charge out of transports which didnt move [and unlike marines cant hide behind transport because skimers dont block LoS and eldar are not runing with 4t+3vs with possible buffs] .
My advice to eldar players is ... play dark eldar. Realy take it from a guy who played EC whole 5th only because they were a little bit different the "normal" csm builds. the time you put in to trying to get a good game is not worth the frustration at the total inabilty of your army to work not at the tactical or special rules level , but at the level of basic rules.




Well I am keeping the IG mech rolling, as I dont have to start in them and they are cover when wrecked. Chims become light tanks to cover my big tanks as well. May insist at playing at 2k so I can fit in flyers just to give myself more of a chance.you know any IG player who claims even a slight nerf to the IG list [switching one build for another , specialy when there were slogger builds in 5th anyway is not getting nerfed] , when they just got a tri las ultra cheap flyer with new improved rules for squadrons , should report to the closest comissar to get blamed.

damn I just did in character ;/

[eldargal]

On this atleast I agree with jeske, we pay a huge amount for vehicles that can't do anything everyones elses vehicles can do for half the price, or less. The change to disembarkation pretty much neuters Banshees, Scorpions and Harlequins as well and makes Fire Dragons a lot trickier to use especially if they have some longrange artillery armour that can shoot from accross the board.

Rhinos may be fragile but at least they can still be used to provide ablative armour and mobile cover. Dark Eldar actually benefit quite a bit, their vehicles are no more fragile really but they can deal with enemy vehicles more effectively.

[Denzark]

EG are you talking game points or real life golden guineas???

Jeske I see where you are coming from, but remain to be convinced. Firstly GW don't think they make the best game, they think they make the best miniatures. They refer to themselves as a miniature company and just happen to have a ruleset to hang it on. This is why they don't right tight competitive rulesets and FAQ regularly.

Also I don't think they worry about the secondary market - I think their main effort is primary sales. I don't think they think new players might take the trouble to purchase a starter army from online second hand. I think they rely on mummy taking little timmy into the shop and getting everything - paints, dice, glue, models, terrain, all in one place. That is the attraction, the business model and how they are afloat and ostensibly not caring about the vets who only purchase exclusive or new must haves from GW - the rest they know where to go to the internet sales people to get what they need.

Who incidentally have already paid GW at profit so they win win - they might lose a vet's money to Wayland, but they have shifted product at a profit to themselves without store overheads.

[eldargal]

Game points, a wave serpent with minimum compulsory armament is 100pts, you can get nearly 3 rhinos for that. It's also really bad at doing its job, I'd take a more fragile raider any day. Most of it has to do with the age of the Eldar codex, i'm not 'crying' about it, but denying it's been hit hard by the change to 6th (a ruleset I'm very impressed with) would just be silly.

[Denzark]

I suppose the question for a vet (to get back OT loosely) is 'does this codex have an alternative build?' The caveat has to be 'that I am happy to play'. If the answer is no (a la you + footdar) then you have to look to another army.

If you don't have one its a good excuse, although I reckon anyone playing long enough to have worries about how edition changes affect their army, WILL almost certainly have more than one..

[eldargal]

I think that is the issue I have. I have no problem with adapting, I get cranky with people who can't but there is a difference between:

Howling Banshees are AP3 now, so are no use against terminators even when their numbers are thinned so I will have to use them differently.

and:

Howling Banshees can no longer be reliably delivered to enemy lines with enough killing capacity left intact to justify taking them in the first place, therefore they stay at home.

Various other units are hit by one or another rule in the same way. So it's not a matter of adapting, I can't adapt the lists I like to play and have any hope of having an entertaining game (I mean entertaining, not necessarily winning, that's just a bonus).

So I wait for either GW to faq things to make it better (giving assault ramps to Wave Serpents would go a long way to making mech viable again, even if it just let them disembark then assault rather than assault out of the vehicle) or a new book. The new book is supposed to be coming next year so it isn't a big deal.

[Renegade]

EG: Dont forget Eldar have FW options, 2 pages worth in fact, which is more than Necrons,DE or Nids. Please explain to me what armies pack enough Str 6 to seriously harass Falcons?

I will admit that Eldar suffer from an old codex, and some things are over priced, but Eldar have plenty of shooting themselves with fairly effective cheap weapons.

Jesk: If I am taking those 130pt models, which are not dedicated transports, then I am not taking others that are probably better at harassment and objective clearing. Eldar have far more tricks in the same slot that these take up. All Eldar vehicles are more survivable than Imperial vehicles with very few exceptions.

[GrogDaTyrant]

Game points, a wave serpent with minimum compulsory armament is 100pts, you can get nearly 3 rhinos for that. It's also really bad at doing its job, I'd take a more fragile raider any day. Most of it has to do with the age of the Eldar codex, i'm not 'crying' about it, but denying it's been hit hard by the change to 6th (a ruleset I'm very impressed with) would just be silly.

Wave Serpents are hardly 'the worst' of the transports, though. And in 4th, they were quite beefy. The one thing the really needed in 5th, was the ability to swap out the force field for a holo-field.

Other horrible transports, include the old Chimera (prior IG codex), which were painfully overcosted for what they did. Upwards of 80 to 90 points per transport. But the Trukk has got to be one of the most wretched. Even with the transport cost reduction we've seen since 3rd edition (Rhinos going from 50pts to 35), the Trukk has flat-lined at 30-35pts. It currently is transport worth about 25pts, in a 35+ point package, with a random extra perk when it explodes in fire. About the only thing worse in the Ork codex, is the Looted Wagon.

[xilton]

Tepogue - I would agree - except I cannot reconcile how doing this to vehicles will sell more - and they have been an expensive and good seller to date.

Hull points was definitely a bad idea as much for the game itself for badly balancing vehicles to selling, you have to admit, far less vehicles now. So for GW, it's a lose-lose situation on this one. You can't even say it's for the money since they'll sell less.

[gcsmith]

Tau still have the Overcosted Devilfish and Battlesuits.

[Yarlen Fireblade]

Hull points was definitely a bad idea as much for the game itself for badly balancing vehicles to selling, you have to admit, far less vehicles now. So for GW, it's a lose-lose situation on this one. You can't even say it's for the money since they'll sell less.

Depending on the army and setup, if you now have to buy loads of specialised infantry to fill in your obsolescent vehicle´s roles, you just have to buy more. They already won and they win again. Some people bought a lot of razorbacks, now they´ll probably buy some rhinos or a Land Raider.

I have six painted forgeworld wave serpents, fielded 3/4 at 2000 tournaments, along with a falcon and a nightspinner. Now the serpents are naturally out of the list for good, as are for example the banshees that went along and the nightspinner as I feel it´s no longer worth it. I´m just lucky that I have twice everything Eldar I´ll ever need, but not everyone is a collector, and that would be around 700 points of potential new purchases for a non collector player. They´ll have to buy to adapt. GW wins again.

Also, after around ten games, I start to feel strongly the game is orbiting towards 2500 points, as the reserve ruling and the diagonal and short table edge deployments, coupled with the security of not being assaulted by flanking units, allow you to fill the board and play everywhere with some sense of security.

A fully loaded Stormraven sets you down 700 points easily, and I can quickly fill my second FOC on Eldar or Deathwing just by spending on the extra troop unit required to maintain troops proportion and maybe 300 points on heavy or elite. It´s so very easy and reserves make deployment progressive, the board doesn´t feel overcrowded as I felt it was so many times in 5th, just because you couldn´t deploy a thing 18 inches from the short edges. Going 2500 with a new system clearly allowing it is just upping the ante and more money for GW unless you have your new units already. They win again ;)

[ragnarcissist]

gettin pretty tired of hearing all this "not good against termies = bad" non-sense, 2+ is pretty rare... not everyone plays deathwing people....

[the jeske]

gettin pretty tired of hearing all this "not good against termies = bad" non-sense, 2+ is pretty rare... not everyone plays deathwing people..
Ok GK[sometimes over 33% of a tournament] or Logan wing[got a lot better with the "sniper" buff to WG] .

Thats SW and GK your talking about here . those are the problem +the fact that they can ally in to any imperial army with 0 problem .

also all HQs will try to run around with a+2 sv because that will make them the ultimate bullet magnet in front of a unit . eternal dudes like lysander or draigo are going to be an ultra pain in the *** to kill with shoting[that is not counting the usual fun of night fight , cover , etc].




Please explain to me what armies pack enough Str 6 to seriously harass Falcons?
SW/IG/GK , some of the new BA builds . anyone who spams flyers or takes ally from the big 3 . or was that a retorical question ?




Firstly GW don't think they make the best game, they think they make the best miniatures.
oh trust me , they even think they make the best paints/brushes anything . I should probably said they think they are creating the best hobby in the world .
that comes with the whole monopol thing . you think that anyone from CC or MC think they are not creating the best soft drinks/food int he world? of course they do , more they think they are creating a life style [which they actualy do , but I wouldnt call it good . unless good=company creating more profits in the future].


This is why they don't right tight competitive rulesets and FAQ regularly.

actualy they are not doing this one , because makings FAQs or errate is like saying we did something wrong. The moment a dude that is a fresh GW buyer starts to think that GW maybe not doing a proper job creating the rules , is the moment where they start losing tons of people from their main focuse group[the new buyers] . This is their only one and only fear. I mean since the 2ed I remember only one time when they droped the ball on a book so hard they had to re errate it totaly [the dark elfs] . And they only did it because the army wasnt selling at all. vets were not buying them , new guys were not buying them , no one was buying them [when no one = not enough to create an minimal expected income].


Also I don't think they worry about the secondary market - I think their main effort is primary sales. I don't think they think new players might take the trouble to purchase a starter army from online second hand. I think they rely on mummy taking little timmy into the shop and getting everything - paints, dice, glue, models, terrain, all in one place
yes you are right that people start in shops . If GW could change it they would always want people to start in a GW shop , after that they dont care if someone buys online or from a FLGS. the thing is with armies getting bigger[GWgoal is going away from small splash rises in sales and moving to a steady more balanced sell all the time] a lot of people dont buy a full army in one go . Lets take 4-5th ed . basic games were 1500pts[euroland] a dude would start with 750-1k pts then move on to 1500. He would have to buy more of course because non of the starters sets would give him those 5man las/plas marines or 4-5 razorbacks and15RL LF , but that would happen later durning that one year he is suppose to be playing the game .
Now imagine the same dude in 6th with 2kpts or more being basic . He is buying different stuff and GW is realy trying to make him focused on stuff that didnt exist before [flyers] .But then comes the problem part for GW, if armies didnt change [razor build still viable for example] , that wouldnt be enough . The dude wouldnt be able to buy the 1kpts before his one year term is up . Worse if he tried the easiest way for him would be to buy from dudes that are quiting/changing armies . And this is just the new dudes . A vet could buy the flyers and say ok am done for this edition , unless I'll fance some ally.

So to make it more readable . I agree with you that people start to game with buying that battaling +1/2 extra squads , but actual armies are build later . And they are being bought from GW[doesnt matter if from shops/online] only because it is hard to find somene who is selling lets say jump pack SM en mass right now .


Who incidentally have already paid GW at profit so they win win - they might lose a vet's money to Wayland, but they have shifted product at a profit to themselves without store overheads.
GW doesnt see people buying from LFGS or online shops other then theirs as losing money [doesnt matter vet or not] . In fact what they like best is to get a dude buy a battalion in a GW shop and then never ever return there again unless its for a total new army in a system he never played before . Store managers realy dont like vets , they lower the sells [true not only for GW shops by the way] . An actual lose of money is when a dude who could buy a totaly new set of terminatorsx4 buys them from a dude who stoped playing.Its lost profit .

[Renegade]

SW/IG/GK , some of the new BA builds . anyone who spams flyers or takes ally from the big 3 . or was that a retorical question ?


Eldar can take allies as well, so that is hardly an issue. Eldar can also take fliers, and can spam high strength shooting better than either SW or GK, and have a more survivable mech platform than either of those 4.

If they are over priced then give a comparable unit that is cheaper that is a dedicated transport, I can find not one that is as survivable or manoeuvrable as the Falcon that is significantly cheaper.