Regarding Characters, Axes, Dreadknights and Paladins

[Xzarol]

1.

Has anyone else noticed that under the References Page (410), that Grey Knight Paladins are Characters (63)?

This seems pretty awesome, to be honest.

So now Paladins can:
Challenge
Pinpoint Shoot AND Pinpoint Strike
Use Glorious Intervention

Just double checking with everyone to make sure that I'm reading this all correctly.

2.

A Nemesis Dreadknight, armed with A Nemesis Greatsword, has [4] Strength 10 Attacks that, because of the Greatsword Powers, can reroll To Hit, To Wound, and because of the Sword AND MC status can reroll Armor Penetration?

I think this is correct. The argument I saw was over RAW versus RAI (sp?), since the Nemesis Greatsword would be taken purely for the ability to gain rerolls, while the Nemesis Doomfist would be the weapon used to attack with, given that it's now Strength 10.

3.

What is the opinion with Grey Knights and their Unusual Weapons? Do they gain the benefit of having Halberds (Axes), or do they purely follow the Codex and keep the Halberd Profile of Init+2 AP3?

At first, I saw the ruling for Unusual Force Weapons and just decided that it was fine and GKs weren't affected. I've seen a lot of people talking about it since though, which has got me confused.

4.

Purely for speculation, do you think taking a Gatling Psylincer on a DK is worth it? It's 35 points for 12 shots, but with Dreadknights being Characters now, it would give a pretty decent chance at sniping commanding officers, or simply pouring out some firepower into something that can be easily popped.

5.

Do you think or still think Grey Knights are an overpowered Codex?

I know a lot of people still hold this opinion. Lately, it has gotten to me pretty badly.

I attend my towns monthly Escalation League (we are currently just getting into 1250 points). We had our first Sixth Edition game on Thursday.

To preface a little bit, I've been playing Daemonhunters ever since I started 40K back in High School (8 years ago). I played them through the thick of it, and I was so happy when our new Codex came out. I've always been a big fan of them, ever since I was introduced. Anyway...

I was playing at my local league, and a couple of people were sitting around the table watching. One of the guys watching constantly commented about how Grey Knights are the no brainer overpowered Codex that everyone is playing and winning tournaments with.

Needless to say I was extremely pissed off, and it pretty well ruined the vibe of the game for me. It feels bad to have someone just verbally **** on your choice of army. I'm a huge wuss though, and I didn't say anything about it.

I just...I get really frustrated when people just say that sort of stuff without qualifying it, you know? I look at the Adepticon results for 2011 at the end of 5th, and Grey Knights aren't even in the top four. Necrons are there three times in that list (which is the army the guy who was commenting plays, by the way).

Not saying that Necrons are stupid, mind you. I know they were in the same boat as GKs, and I'm glad they have plenty of new toys.

Anyway, I just want to hear some opinions outside of my hobby store. And if anyone has them...maybe some statistics? I would love to have more information on the subject.

Thanks for reading my piles of text, guys. Sixth Edition has really ignited the Wargaming spark for me again. About to paint one of my Dreadknights now, actually. =P

[Surendil]

1.- Yes, they do.
2.- Nope, if you have more than 1 type of weapon you must chose wich one rules you use. Then you just get a +1 attack if neither are specialist.
3.- As halberds and all the others have their own unique rules, they are quintessential unusual force weapons.
4.- 12 shoots that, even allocated, are str 4 / no ap... may work, but I think GK have better things around.
and 5.- you're asking for something you'll don't like...

[bfmusashi]

As an IG player I've had far more trouble with Blood Angels than I've had with Grey Knights. The BA may be less of an issue now that I can run from deep striking furiosos. My poor Daemonhunters haven't gotten to use the new codex yet as I do not tolerate an opponent telling me he lost through a handicap.

[thecactusman17]

Grey Knights, from a purely mathematical standpoint, dominated 5th edition by being exceptionally cheesy.

It is hard to say if the transition to 6th edition has hurt them. I sincerely hope it hasn't helped them any more--the unit choices are completely out of balance with any normal army. The costs for ridiculous gear are insane. And worst of all, outside of Paladins, there's never a sense of "I traded large numbers for elite dudes" in the codex. You stil get tons of elite mdoels that are better than nearly everything else in the game.

HOWEVER, that does not mean they are unbeatable! Especially now with the new wound allocation system, it is finally possible to actually hurt some of the worst offenders (such as Paladins). I haven't read through completely, but I'm hoping that psy-rifle dreads have also gotten a significant nerf vs. at least some units--they made several armies nearly unplayable in the last edition.

[Lerra]

Psyrifle Dreads are much, much easier to kill now.

GKs are still my least favorite army to play against, but I play Chaos Daemons so I'm a bit biased :P GK seem to have stayed at a similar power level as where they were in 5th, but other armies have gone up in power a lot (mainly Tau, Necrons, BA). I'd also expect the first few 6th ed codices to give GK a run for their money.

[DarkLink]

Do you think or still think Grey Knights are an overpowered Codex?



They're a bunch of whiners.

Emperically speaking, GKs have a very small margin over every other army based on worldwide tournament results. They're slightly better than Space Wolves, in second place, who are only slightly better than the third place (I think orks), and so on. That's not based on some wishy-washy "OMFG, they all have power weapons, that's so broken" crap. That's based on actual observation of results in a competitive environment.

40k is much, much more balanced than most people give it credit for. The top ten or so armies are pretty well balanced. They're not the problem.

The problem is that there are some old, crappy armies that have been left behind. They are underpowered, as opposed to any of the top armies being overpowered. And I know someone won't be able to understand the difference and start arguing over it, but people are wont to do that regardless of evidence to the contrary. You just need to remember that when everything's overpowered, nothing is.

[Tynskel]

I don't understand the difference.

::starts to argue over it::

[DarkLink]

Lol. Then I'll start arguing with you about how much nidz suck, especially now that 6th has nerfed them in every possible way to the point of complete unplayability;).

[RGilbert26]

Can someone explain how all of a sudden Dreadknights are S10? Other than halving their attacks in order to double their strength (re: the new Monstrous Creature ability).

As far as I am aware Doomfists still do not double strength for DK as they only do so for Dreadnoughts, only the hammer makes them S10.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Can someone explain how all of a sudden Dreadknights are S10? Other than halving their attacks in order to double their strength (re: the new Monstrous Creature ability).

As far as I am aware Doomfists still do not double strength for DK as they only do so for Dreadnoughts, only the hammer makes them S10.Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons make no mention of Walkers in their rules anymore. They're just an ap2 melee weapon that doubles strength.

[DarkLink]

As far as I am aware Doomfists still do not double strength for DK as they only do so for Dreadnoughts, only the hammer makes them S10.

We're not playing 5th ed anymore. Go read the new rules. DCCW simply double strength, there's no reference to walkers anymore.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Paladins have gotten insanely better, because of the unit being Characters. four Psycannons that can Percise shot, and Look Out Sir roles for the whole squad, add one Staff into that squad and all of a sudden i can look out sir melee attacks onto that model while he accepts any and all challenges tossed out by killer IC's or such. :D

I may be wrong about this but, if you do 4 wounds to me at the same initiative in Close Combat, i can take Look Out sir rolls (4+) to pass all those wounds onto the Stave wielder as long as the model is within six inches. Which increases their durability vs MC's and stuff like those Necron "No armour save" blades. Toss into this unit some "Blessings" and you got something very nasty on your hands...

[DarkLink]

You can, but you have to make all your Look Out Sir rolls, which aren't reliable. And while precision shots are nice, they're not that big. Except maybe against orks, where you actually have a chance of killing the nob with a couple of shots since they don't have good armor saves normally.

[Wildcard]

Paladins with (mastercrafted!)psycannons: Precision shots on 6'es Rending on 6'es, out of 16 shots, two combos of dual sixes will eat pretty much any theatening sergeant / nob / equivalent leader
(Add +4 shots if paladins are with a captain/grand master)

And tbh, if my oppoenent would wield units that can have multiple powerweapons, i'd sure would like to take the ap2/1 power weapons out first (as paladins / terminators)

[DarkLink]

But rolling lots of 6's isn't something to be relied upon, and in last edition weight of fire from a full unit of Paladins had pretty good odds of killing special weapons and characters as well. It'd definitely nice, but it's not a huge buff by any means.

[xilton]

2.- Nope, if you have more than 1 type of weapon you must chose wich one rules you use. Then you just get a +1 attack if neither are specialist.

Based on most of what I've seen up to now on many forums, they can use the swords power for S10. Basically it's the wording that is wrong making it so. The sword never states you have to use it, only have to have it therefore hitting with your fist at S10 using rerolls. At the same time, we do get the +1A also since force weapons are not specialist weapons in the 6th. Look around, all threads come down to the same conclusion. I originally though like you did. I'm sure this will be FAQed at some point.

[Tynskel]

they are reading that wrong.
The CC weapons section is abundantly clear: you cannot mix n' match special abilities between weapons.

All you get is a +1 attack for 2 CC weapons. You still have to declare which weapon you are using.

What you can do, is declare the sword, then use 'Smash Attack'. You Strike at Str10 at half attacks, re-roll to pen. And then the sword (if I recall correctly) allows you to re-roll to hit.

[celestialatc]

they are reading that wrong.
The CC weapons section is abundantly clear: you cannot mix n' match special abilities between weapons.

All you get is a +1 attack for 2 CC weapons. You still have to declare which weapon you are using.

What you can do, is declare the sword, then use 'Smash Attack'. You Strike at Str10 at half attacks, re-roll to pen. And then the sword (if I recall correctly) allows you to re-roll to hit.

We need the Tynskel flow chart.

[Gloomfang]

Lol. Then I'll start arguing with you about how much nidz suck, especially now that 6th has nerfed them in every possible way to the point of complete unplayability;).

Nids have been nerfed to unplayability? Have you played them or played against them in 6th?

They do play a very diffrently but for every nerf they have gotten a bigger boost. With my Nids I've tabled IG twice by the end of turn 3.

Don't get me wrong, not having allies sucks for fluff reasons (I want my Cult army back!) and not being able to charge out of outflank is a big smack. Null deployment being gone sucks too (but I never used it).

Overwatch is kinda Meh. We can use it to and its not that OP once you learn how to deal with it.

However we now have more psykers then we know what to do with, the tervifex and no more "No Retreat" wounds.

[DarkLink]

I was joking with Tynskel about that. He seems to be the only 'nidz player on BoLS that isn't all doom and gloom, and I was backing him up in a few threads, but if he wants to be a smart@$$ (;)) about my comment I'll return the favor. Kinda an inside joke, really.

[xilton]

they are reading that wrong.
The CC weapons section is abundantly clear: you cannot mix n' match special abilities between weapons.

All you get is a +1 attack for 2 CC weapons. You still have to declare which weapon you are using.

What you can do, is declare the sword, then use 'Smash Attack'. You Strike at Str10 at half attacks, re-roll to pen. And then the sword (if I recall correctly) allows you to re-roll to hit.

I was thinking like you originally. Now I'm not sure with all that is being said. I'm guessing this will be FAQed