Tau and Space Marines, battle brothers ?

[Deadlift]

Why ? Where in the fiction is there any background to back this close alliance up ?

I will state I personally love the allies system and have a soft spot for the blue skinned buggers, but before I add an hq and troop choice of them I feel this "need" to justify them joining my Salamanders.

Over to you :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Didn't they join up with the Ultramarines to fight the 'nids at some point?

[Wolfshade]

The Ultramarines fight in blue, and the Tau are blue, they obviously view all their enemies as Gargamel and therefore unit for smurf kind!

Cry Smurf and release the Smurfs of Smurf

[eldargal]

It isn't an alliance. The Allies chart isn't a hierarchy of formal alliances, it is a hierarchy of how far trust extends when it comes to individual battles. So a Tau force and Space Marine force arrive on a world, the Tau to retrieve experimental technology, the Imperium to purge some heretics. Out of the blue a daemonic incursiom breaks out. Both sides still have goals to achieve, they can't achieve them on their own, they trust each other enough not to cooperate to a limited extent on the battlefield. Once the battle is over they go their seperate ways and/or try and kill each other.

Remember the IoM DOES have limited diplomatic contact with xenos races, their xenophobia is very much shades of grey rather than blck or white. For a long time they had an actual embassy of some sort on Alaitoc. Inquisitor Czevak visited Iyanden and the Grey Knights were able to contact the Eldar to have them fetch soulstones from teh hulk of Malantai to prevent more daemonic incursions. The IoM and Tau also have a treaty of some sort in place after the stalemate of the Damocles Gulf campaign.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

There must be a pre-existing reason for their allegiance though?

[eldargal]

Not necessarily. Space Marines stuck on a rock fighting off a Dark Eldar raid when a daemonic invasion breaks out, the choice is work together briefly or be destroyed. They won't trust each other and things will be very tense but they won't act like complete morons an fight everyone at once anymore.

There are some genuine oddities on the allies chart though. Black Templar being happier to work with a race of psychic aliens than the anti-psyker SoB, for example. I get that the BT and SoB might not necessarily like each other much, but less secure working together than with Eldar? I really think not.

[Wolfshade]

I hadn't considered that.
instead of being a grandiose diplomatic statement it is the degree to which each side would trust each other if they face a common enemy.That makes it alot more easy to digest than to say Tau and Space Marines are allies, but they will fight along side each other against a common foe

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Not necessarily. Space Marines stuck on a rock fighting off a Dark Eldar raid when a daemonic invasion breaks out, the choice is work together briefly or be destroyed. They won't trust each other and things will be very tense but they won't act like complete morons an fight everyone at once anymore.

There are some genuine oddities on the allies chart though. Black Templar being happier to work with a race of psychic aliens than the anti-psyker SoB, for example. I get that the BT and SoB might not necessarily like each other much, but less secure working together than with Eldar? I really think not.

It's quite an oddity, I know that some Chapters would not even slightly trust Aliens. (Red Scorpions for example)

[TSINI]

Havent got the rulebook yet, but uneasy alliance against a shared foe is different entirely to being battle brothers, one is how marines and intelligent aliens would view each other, the other suggests 2 forces with shared goals, respect and willingness to lay down your life for theirs...

Some crap about the emperor telling the ultramarines to protect of work with the Tau or some BS

[Wolfshade]

It is but then you would have to assume that if you are playing a more fluffy army that isn't ruled for, you would play within the spirit of it.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Some crap about the emperor telling the ultramarines to protect of work with the Tau or some BSThat rumor was found to be false, fortunately. The stuff about sharing goals/being super trusting is just flavor text, same sort of way Tyranids aren't "actually" declaring challenges. Just means the Tau know the Ultramarines won't backstab them and vice versa.

[TSINI]

That rumor was found to be false, fortunately. The stuff about sharing goals/being super trusting is just flavor text, same sort of way Tyranids aren't "actually" declaring challenges. Just means the Tau know the Ultramarines won't backstab them and vice versa.

Oh thank the lord emperor himself for not speaking such ridiculousnous!

Cheers bud. I'm waiting till I've played my last 5th ed competition before getting the new book

[bfmusashi]

I figure the BT are fine with the xenos as can be trusted to be filthy scum sucking xenos. The SoB are, from a second founding perspective, a bunch of crazy, over the top protestants. They come from divergent theological backgrounds. Shoot, the BT are on a penitent crusade to redeem themselves in the eyes of a guy who had a problem with religion and they're supposed to trust the gun nuns? They betrayed the head of their church, in the Emperor's own palace! Let's also not forget, just because something is written in a codex does not mean it's common knowledge in the universe so that little bit about having the Emperor's blessing is opinion at best. No one should trust the SoB, ever, not even other SoBs.

[Yawarakaimatsuka]

As for Tau, I can easily imagine the water caste doing really really great when the need for a temporary alliance is being brought up. Also, I've read «Courage and honor» and «The savage scars» and in those books many space marine characters talk about how Tau are a respectable enemy and how they fight honorably. So, against a common foe, I would see Tau and Space Marine going hand in hand for a short time. As for Space marine unit being lead by a Tau commander and vice-versa, it's harder to believe but it's not impossible.

[eldargal]

Except Black Templar hate xenos too, not just Witches. And Eldar are all xenos Witches. Every single one. I get that they don't like the SoB, that isn't the issue. The issue is that they would be more comofrtable working with a race of alien witches than with a bunch of humans who are serving approximately the same goals they are. I mean if you go justifying this based on the fact they don't like each other, Space Wolves an Dark Angels would be there too. yet they are allies of convenience.

It is inconsistent and a little silly to say the least. I'd also say that the SoB should never trust Marines, afteall only a handful of SoB have fallen to Chaos. Half of all Space Marines fell to chaos roughly simultaneously. Marines might like to thump their chests and go on about loyalty to the Emperor but they are far more questionable than the SoB.;)

I figure the BT are fine with the xenos as can be trusted to be filthy scum sucking xenos. The SoB are, from a second founding perspective, a bunch of crazy, over the top protestants. They come from divergent theological backgrounds. Shoot, the BT are on a penitent crusade to redeem themselves in the eyes of a guy who had a problem with religion and they're supposed to trust the gun nuns? They betrayed the head of their church, in the Emperor's own palace! Let's also not forget, just because something is written in a codex does not mean it's common knowledge in the universe so that little bit about having the Emperor's blessing is opinion at best. No one should trust the SoB, ever, not even other SoBs.

[FireHazard]

Anyone remember the video game (and the book based on it) called 'Firewarrior'?

It's been a long time since I played it or read the book but I'm fairly certain the main (Tau) character was being helped/guided by an Ultramarine. He may even have been a captain.

[Wildeybeast]

As for Tau, I can easily imagine the water caste doing really really great when the need for a temporary alliance is being brought up. Also, I've read «Courage and honor» and «The savage scars» and in those books many space marine characters talk about how Tau are a respectable enemy and how they fight honorably. So, against a common foe, I would see Tau and Space Marine going hand in hand for a short time. As for Space marine unit being lead by a Tau commander and vice-versa, it's harder to believe but it's not impossible.

The Tau have an interesting relationship with the IoM. At the end of the Damocles gulf crusade, the SM and IG commanders vetoed the use of exterminatus as the Tau had fought so well and honourably. In the Nid dex there is an account of Tau and IG fleets teaming up to stop a Nid fleet before turning on each other as soon as the Nids were dealt with. And there is the issue of a number of human worlds happily embracing the Greater Good, whilst Tau technology makes it as far as the likes of Necromunda. Whatever the official line is, since the Tau are one of the few races who aren't overly hostile, individual humans will often see them a useful partners in various enterprises. Bear in mind that the Imperial xenophobia is only a dogma introduced by the racist Emperor, the Great Crusade found many worlds where humans were peacefully co-existing with aliens.

[cobra6]

Except Black Templar hate xenos too, not just Witches. And Eldar are all xenos Witches. Every single one. I get that they don't like the SoB, that isn't the issue. The issue is that they would be more comofrtable working with a race of alien witches than with a bunch of humans who are serving approximately the same goals they are. I mean if you go justifying this based on the fact they don't like each other, Space Wolves an Dark Angels would be there too. yet they are allies of convenience.

Ironically, the Blood Angels are now the most xenophobic SM chapter based on the allies chart. I find this odd; a few months ago I would have called them one of the most "liberal" and dogmatically flexible chapters. And if you had asked me which chapter is the most likely to lose the battle/campaign and all die because they continue to fight the Eldar even after the daemons show up, I would have said "Black Templars," followed closely by "Dark Angels."