Shuriken Weaponry and other stuff

[Ruleslawyer]

Quick Question - Do you think Shuriken Weapons will or should have the Shred USR? I think yes as it matches the desription of the weapon.

What other things would boost Eldar? Swooping Hawks with Intercepter and or skyfire? Warp Spiders with Monster Hunter? Warlock Destructor power getting soulfire?

[The AKH]

I think giving shuriken weapons Shred would have to go along with either a Strength nerf or a points increase.

[lattd]

I think giving shuriken weapons Shred would have to go along with either a Strength nerf or a points increase.

Why? The weapon is worse than a bolter on models that cost more than marines, surely it would be fair for eldar to get a little boost.

[eldargal]

I'd rather a range increase. Apart from the Avenger variant the damned things are almost useless except on vehicles. I do agree that by the fluff it ought to have shred or rending.

[DrLove42]

Give Avengers 24". Underslungs on vehicles and guardians 18".

And give shred to the cannons. Or make it an option for a upgrade (maybe replace bladestorm?) for Avengers guns

Fluff wise it makes total sense, they literally shoot a flurry of hundreds of molecule thin shurikens

[Ruleslawyer]

Give Avengers 24". Underslungs on vehicles and guardians 18".

And give shred to the cannons. Or make it an option for a upgrade (maybe replace bladestorm?) for Avengers guns

Fluff wise it makes total sense, they literally shoot a flurry of hundreds of molecule thin shurikens

I've always been partial to 12" Assault 2/24" Heavy 2 and Giving Dire Avengers relentless. This boosts bikes and vehicles as well

[Defenestratus]

Wishlisting thread warning!

I'd say that in any revamp of the Eldar book, they will get SOME special rule ... HOWEVER

In a long running string of letting Eldar players down, it will be ... Lance :P

[eldargal]

We will probably get a 6" range increase and drop to S3.:rolleyes: And lance.

[The AKH]

Why? The weapon is worse than a bolter on models that cost more than marines, surely it would be fair for eldar to get a little boost.

Last I checked Guardians were cheaper than Marines... and in terms of giving Eldar a boost, as an Eldar player I'd rather see the Aspects improved than Guardians made a more versatile choice. Guardian Defender squads' main strength should be toting around Heavy Weapons platforms - the Shuriken Catapults don't need to be amazing.

[lattd]

I was talking about avengers who should have a variant with shred, while normal guardians keep the current model.

[Charistoph]

Last I checked Guardians were cheaper than Marines... and in terms of giving Eldar a boost, as an Eldar player I'd rather see the Aspects improved than Guardians made a more versatile choice. Guardian Defender squads' main strength should be toting around Heavy Weapons platforms - the Shuriken Catapults don't need to be amazing.

And have almost EVERY stat lower than Marines, and aside from Ld and I are little different from Guardsmen.

So yeah, of course they're cheaper.

[Mr Mystery]

As Shuriken weapons have ever struck me as 'spray and pray' I'd like to see them have an improved Snapfire to hit. Even BS2 would make charging guardians pretty painful!

[Sainhann]

I'd rather a range increase. Apart from the Avenger variant the damned things are almost useless except on vehicles. I do agree that by the fluff it ought to have shred or rending.

How about this; give back the 24" range that they had years ago.

There is a reason why they give the additional 6" back to Dire Avengers.

Because with a lousy 12" range no one was going to field them.

GW shorten the range because back when they had the -2 Armor Save they were killing Space Marine left and right.

But those days are long gone and they should be able to fire out to 24". If they did you would find more Eldar players considering to use Guardians again.

I have nearly 100+ Guardians but they are the worst Infantry in the game. Lousy short range weapons.

True with Overwatch they can now may be get two shots off before being killed in close combat.

There was a time when they were something to fear. But that was many years ago.

[Sainhann]

We will probably get a 6" range increase and drop to S3.:rolleyes: And lance.


Yup, not a great help at all.

:)

[Sainhann]

Last I checked Guardians were cheaper than Marines... and in terms of giving Eldar a boost, as an Eldar player I'd rather see the Aspects improved than Guardians made a more versatile choice. Guardian Defender squads' main strength should be toting around Heavy Weapons platforms - the Shuriken Catapults don't need to be amazing.

So with an answer like this, I would expect that just maybe you were not playing 40k 15 years ago.

Or, back when the Guardians had a 24" range weapon and who job it was to go out and hunt things down and were not saddle with a support weapon that ate up points.

Today their job is like you said sit around a support weapon hoping that nothing gets within 12" inches because if it did.

These Guardians would some be dead due to getting charged.

There is a reason why most Eldar players leave the Guardians at home or in the carrying case.

That is because they are not worth taking. At least in 6th Edition they will get to shoot at the unit that will more than likely kill them in close combat.

Try this situation out. Take a squad of 20 Guardians and their Scatter Laser Support Platform give them a Warlock and put them in open ground.

Then take a squad of 10 Space Marines and give them a Hvy Bolter.

Place these Squads 24" apart and then have them fire at each other.

I will bet that the Guardians will end up losing 95% of the time.

24" range of basic Infantry weapons beats 12" range Infantry weapons every day.

Now if they had equal range weapons chances are the results would be around 50% for each side.

[Chronowraith]

Guardians are pretty terrible. At least in the 3rd edition book we could take them in squads of 5 and throw in the platform for a pretty affordable price. Then they upped the minimum squad size to 10 and they became less attractive.

I remember the heyday of Guardians in 2nd edition when they were 24" -2 Armor Save AND had a sustained fire die on top of that. They were brutal and, quite possibly, over the top a wee bit. Then 3rd struck and Eldar generals everywhere were left thinking, WTF?!?

On the topic of Swooping Hawks I think it would be fantastic if they were made into anti-vehicle troops, but with a twist not available in previous editions- Flying. Since Swooping Hawks are, by fluff standards, some of the only jump infantry capable of prolonged and sustained flight, let them fly in a similar manner to flying monstrous creatures, i.e. Swoop (get it? Swooping Hawks? I know, I'm terrible :-P ). Suddenly you have a unit that is hard to hit, but still fragile, can assault flyers with haywire grenades, and can lay down a little bit of suppression fire with their lasblasters/grenade packs. That is what I want to see.

[Sainhann]

Well at least for most of 3rd Edition they still had their 24" range.

It was at the tail end of 3rd when GW nerfed the hell out of them by cutting their range in half and at the same time they lost the ability to carry Las Guns.

So players like me who had been playing them from the time they came out in White Dwarf knew that we had just been screwed.

They dropped the ability to carrying Las Guns since that is what most Eldar players would have gone to and not use any Shuriken Catapult Guardians.

Before the nerfing my Shuriken armed Guardians were hunters. 5-10 man squads who mission was to go out and find something to kill.

My Las Gun Guardians were the ones manning the Support Weapons since they had range.

Then to pour salt into our nerfing out comes the Tau with their 30" range str 5 weapon.

I would kill for something like that for my Guardians.