Multi Chapter Army. Thoughts please.

[energongoodie]

As far as my marine armies go. My first was a Blood Angel, then Space Wolves ( with loads of Eldar allies back in the day), then my own chapter ( which wasn't great) and most recently I am all about the Iron Hands as I love their no nonesense approach and the fact that when I read the fluff I love the cyborg vibe and their single minded 'we are right, everybody else must do what we say or die' way of thinking.

My question to you guys is how would you feel if I came along to play you with some Iron Hands squads, some Space Wolves models, some Red Scorpion models etc all mixed in? There are so many great new models coming out, and I can't realistically have 2000 points each of loads of chapters. So i am planning on building a multi chapter force around the wolves dex. I hope it will look striking and not a mess. What do you think?

Answers on a postcard.

[Aldramelech]

I'm no expert but from a fluff point of view I thought they didn't play nicely together?

I would have no problem provided the force was properly balanced and wasn't used as an excuse to take the best bits from each army.

[crazyredpraetorian]

For slow paced friendly games, I think it could work. However it would be a mess for tournament play.

[energongoodie]

All the army choices would come from one codex, the models would just be painted different colours effectively. As far as the fluff goes, as a former Rogue Trader player, it isn't that important to me. I agree that fluff wise, a crazy set of situations would have had to happen to get them all together on one battle field.

[Aldramelech]

No problems then. It would make for a fun game.

[Culven]

Provided that a single codex is used, the opponent knows which codex is used, and the models are WYSIWYG, I don't really see a problem. There have been many examples of such "crusade forces" in White Dwarf. If it were my army, I would avoid using any special codex units (Blood Angles, Space Wolves, etc, just so that my opponent won't forget that they aren't actually using that army's rules). I would tend toward using the Space Marine codex with squads painted as lesser known chapters, and then use an army-wide crusade badge and markings to unitfy the army.

Even then, i don't think that using the Blood Angels, etc. would really be a problem, as long as the opponent understands. For tournaments, this should be OK, but the Tournament Organizer should be consulted since they have the power to say that blue models are not permitted.

[energongoodie]

Roger.
I pose this question, really as a result of looking at the new white dwarf and enjoying several of the space wolf models made from the sprues in the grey hunters box, but not enough for an army. There are just too many weird heads that are more yorkshire than viking.

[Aldramelech]

Yeah, Johnny Vaughn is gonna leap out and shout "You Beauty!"

[ThePov]

As far as my marine armies go. My first was a Blood Angel, then Space Wolves ( with loads of Eldar allies back in the day), then my own chapter ( which wasn't great) and most recently I am all about the Iron Hands as I love their no nonesense approach and the fact that when I read the fluff I love the cyborg vibe and their single minded 'we are right, everybody else must do what we say or die' way of thinking.

My question to you guys is how would you feel if I came along to play you with some Iron Hands squads, some Space Wolves models, some Red Scorpion models etc all mixed in? There are so many great new models coming out, and I can't realistically have 2000 points each of loads of chapters. So i am planning on building a multi chapter force around the wolves dex. I hope it will look striking and not a mess. What do you think?

Answers on a postcard.
Well, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Iron Hands are all first founding, so if you wanted, you could even do a force from the Great Crusade with those three, although I'm not sure if all three ever actually fought together at once...

[energongoodie]

Well, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Iron Hands are all first founding, so if you wanted, you could even do a force from the Great Crusade with those three, although I'm not sure if all three ever actually fought together at once...

I'd love to have a squad from every loyalist chapter in one army. I think it would look lovely on the table but won't win me the games. Would be fun to play each squad as their chapter traits dictate. Charge in with the Blood Angels, dig in with the imperial fists etc.

[ggg]

No problem at all- I know of a chap who plays with a combined blood angel and imperial fist army, using the SM codex - looks great and works. I remember when mixed armies were much more common and it wasn't considered to be such heresy.

I use the lighting bolt crusade badge to link all of my marine armies just for such an eventuality.

[energongoodie]

I use the lighting bolt crusade badge to link all of my marine armies just for such an eventuality.

Great idea. I'm I won't feel so bad buying some grey hunters and wolf guard this saturday.

[Grabnutz]

Of course there is another way to field a number of first founding chapters in the same army...
welcome to Chaos my child... :D

[Quality Champion]

I really dig your idea. As a fan from the Rogue Trader era, I think the idea of a multi-chapter force is a good one. Long as your opponent can tell what's what, you should be fine. And you should have a squad of owl-icon Mentors as well...

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Of course there is another way to field a number of first founding chapters in the same army...
welcome to Chaos my child... :D

I was going to say, Chaos seems to have problem doing this, so who cares? I thought I remembered that once upon a time it was ok to field all kinds of loyalist stuff mixed together, even Space Marines and Imperial Guard. In the spirit of those times, a little Ultra Marine blue rubbing shoulders with Space Wolf Gray can't hurt anything.

[energongoodie]

I won't go chaos. Loyalist all the way.
There are just too many lovely models coming out from Games Workshop and Forgeworld that I have too do this or risk having loads of lovely dusty models doing nothing.
The plan at the moment is to base it off the Space Wolves codex. I will have an Iron Hands squad or 2 ( grey hunters ) lead by Terminator sergeants ( wolf guad ), a venerable Iron Hands dreadnought ( Bjorn ), Njal stormcaller, some blood claws and long fangs. I have only glanced at the shop copy of the codex so far so will have a better plan saturday night after I have had a good read. I have to get the red scorpions in aswell.
When the Blood Angels turn up next year I really will be in trouble.

[NealSmith]

I have a crusade army too.

The bulk is my DIY chapter and I've started adding Bikers and Land Speeders painted as White Scars.

I plan to add others, I just haven't settled completely on what yet. Iron Fists and Ultramarines are bubbling to the top.

The common thing about all of these are that they are codex chapters.


Good Luck!
Neal

[Duke]

I like your idea... I did this with a Luna Wolves/ Emperors Children army (pre-heresy) and a lot of people liked it. NObody refused to play me because it was all from C:SM.

Good luck, maybe post the progress on the modeling and painting thread.

Duke

[MajorSoB]

I have two thoughts:

1) Much like everyone else has echoed, I would have no problem playing you in a friendly game providing you have all your models playing by rules from a single codex. But..

2) On a purely fluff driven level, I dislike multi chapter armies. Space Marines as well as Chaos Chapter Marines seem to be described as arrogant and mistrusting of other chapters. Some chapters will work with others on a crusade and when they have no other choice but for the most part they fight alone. The new Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine codexes now allow you to use multiple factions in a single army even when it goes against fluff. You can create broken combos ( like the raven wing / salamander combo) as well as chaos armies where all four legions fight arm in arm totally against their hatred and mistrust of the other gods. Only Abadon had the power to compel cults to fight as one, now it seems all to commonplace for me.

But this is a hobby and open to self expression, so do what you like. Understand not every player will agree with your choice, many "purist" will instruct you as to why you are wrong but if this is what it takes to get you to paint and have fun gaming then do what you like!

[energongoodie]

Good luck, maybe post the progress on the modeling and painting thread.

Duke[/QUOTE]

I'm no great shakes at painting but I will post something when I have a couple of squads and a couple of HQs.

I'm gonna try a true scale marine this friday. I love the Iron Hands so I will make them bigger and meaner than the other chapters :) I will use them as Terminators maybe?

[DoctorEvil]

It's funny, I've been considering this idea too. Now that my Space Marine army is mostly bought and assembled, I was struggling trying to decide what Chapter to choose. Imperial Fists, Salamanders, and DIY ended up being the top choices, but there were at least a half dozen others that I like.

I started thinking, as long a I'm sticking to one Codex, why couldn't each squad be from a different chapter? Or narrow down to a limited few? It certainly takes aways some of the boredom of painting the same color scheme over and over.

My only thing would be that each unit would have to be from the same chapter. Which seems common sense, but then I need to make sure any dedicated transports match the unit. The bad thing about that is it kind of takes away from the list building flexiblity (maybe next week I'll want the Rhino to be with the Salamander Tac Squad, but darn it's painted for the Imperial Fists).

[Duke]

@ Doctor Evil: I have had the same problems with my multi chapter armies... Such is life, either you spend more money & time when the list changes or you just deal with it, lol.

A hint to people who are trying to justify how their armies are together... There have been several times that multiple marine chapters fought together
1. Horus heresy
2. Macharian Crusade
3. Badab war
4. Armageddon
5. 1 of 13 black crusades.

This should give any player plenty of options when looking for fluff background. (Waits for fluff jockeys to aruge)... Cheers!

Duke

[NealSmith]

@DoctorEvil - That's why, so far, I've chosen to make my different chapters have different "functions" in my army. The main army is all my own DIY chapter. I am in the process (slowly...) of building a whole battle company for it.

The Bikes/Land Speeders are White Scars. Ultramarines are probably going to be the main focus of my "1st Company" with a squad thrown in from each of the other chapters.

I'll probably do a scout squad for each of my chapters.

Iron Fists, eventually, will be a separate company (with Duplicates of Rhinos, etc.). Maybe I'll just put them in droppods or something... :)

Wish you could magnetize a paint job like you can weapons and arms, etc... LOL

[energongoodie]

That's the idea I like. Different chapters for different functions. I think that is quite fluffy.

A group of Marines from different chapters rock up on a planet after librarians in each chapter have a vision concerning their lost primarch or something. (thoughts welcome) They send the best guys to investigate. The Iron Hands send a Dreadnought, an Iron Father and a squad. The Wolves send a pack of versatile grey hunters lead by a Wolf Guard. The Flesh Tearers send an assault squad. The Ultra Marines send Telion with a scout squad.Salamanders end Devastators armed with Multi Meltas etc
( I know this isn't tournament legal cause of coming from differetnt codex's. I'ts just an idea)

I think I'm gonna hit this hard!

[ratpack]

If you're gonna do this you might also consider chapters with a history according to fluff (blood angels or dark angels or ultramarines and/or successors; chapters on a penitent crusade and their watchers; chapters whou fought together in a conflict)

[Mudkip]

Call it a crusade force. The Imperium calls out for the chapters to support a campaign but everybody is busy, so several chapters throw the few squads they can spare each into the mix and elect a leader to command them.

[Crae]

Call it a crusade force. The Imperium calls out for the chapters to support a campaign but everybody is busy, so several chapters throw the few squads they can spare each into the mix and elect a leader to command them.

I don't know why people call it unfluffy, since that is usually how a lot of campaigns are run. As noted by some one else, several different chapters fought in the Armageddon campaign and Badab wars. It is actually quit common that chapters provide with a squad or two for a campaign, if they can't commit at greater force.

It is unusual for space marines to request aid from other chapters, but imperial officers don't have the same qualms as spacemarines do.

Dante lead the coalition of forces in the second Armageddon war and I think Marneus Calgar lead during the 13th black crusade...... Old fluff though and a bad memory ;).

The point is, if the fighting gets thick enough several chapters will band together as long as they are called upon, since they would never call for help them self.

I would personally, both fluff wise and looks wise go for a common denominator like the Deathwatch. Theres no codex for them, and as long as you don't go for wolves and thunder wolves in the Spacewolves codex, you have a solid set of rules to represent them and a nice way to represent several different chapters in one army.

For fluff on the Death watch go here. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathwatch

[Denzark]

I like the idea and this is how I used to run - majority Ultramarines, few Imperial Fists, few blood Angels (Yes I was a Space Crusade owner). Also a tac squad of Red Scorpions in the old Angstrom Incident pursuit squad colours long before forgeworld.

Think it would be better to use the SM codex rather than SW - it seems like having your cake and eating it. for maximum fluff add in an Inquisitor who has commanded them together...

[energongoodie]

I'm glad people are onboard. I just have to get painting. I have wolves and Iron Hands. Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers can wait till their codex and new models are out. I'm thinking Wolves=Were wolves, Blood Angels=Vampires, Iron Hands=Undead/zombies.

Not really the main idea behind the force. It is really just model driven. GW has stepped up it's game recently and I want everything.

[oni]

I'm going to be doing one myself so I can't disagree. Tho mine isn't going to be quite so extreme. I'm basically having a founding chapter and it's sucessor chapter fight side by side.

[energongoodie]

I think thats a good idea. What founding chapter?

[ChrisW]

energongoodie:

i appaud attempts at bringing back the feel of the old days, i miss them too. however the referace material should be the SM codex. i don't want to deter you from buying a new book, heck that's the only way the hobby keeps growing.

the mult space marine force should be a repersentation of the space marines codex astarties, not of one of the divergence chapters. unless you intend to use each chapters individual ruleset for each squad, which will get quite confusing as it is.

please post pics of the great crusade :)

[oni]

I think thats a good idea. What founding chapter?

The founding chapter is Ultramarines because I luvz da smurfs and the successor chapter is Genesis.

[energongoodie]

energongoodie:

i appaud attempts at bringing back the feel of the old days, i miss them too. however the referace material should be the SM codex. i don't want to deter you from buying a new book, heck that's the only way the hobby keeps growing.

the mult space marine force should be a repersentation of the space marines codex astarties, not of one of the divergence chapters. unless you intend to use each chapters individual ruleset for each squad, which will get quite confusing as it is.

please post pics of the great crusade :)

Cheers for the nod. I appreciate you're sensibleness and I understand the logic of using the SM codex. However...the wolves dex lets me have terminator sergeants, well equipped tactical squads, a characyer dreadnought, and a terminator with a teleporting thunderhammer. All too Iron Handsy too pass up I'm afraid. I'll just sprinkle in some wolf models, skyclaws are a problem as using flesh tearers/scorpions/angels means they would have bobbins ballistic skill but overall, fun fun fun.

[Ivarr]

I think you should go for it. I have toyed with the same idea...mostly because I cannot bring myself to paint more than one or two squads in any one color scheme...at least this way I might finish a whole army.

I agree with some that the Space Marines Codex might be a better representation for a mixed chapter army, but I say use the codex you want...and have fun with it.