The fallen

[apahllo]

so ive delayed the finishing of my dark angels list for about 3-4 months in anticipation for 6th ed. not as much changed as i thought it was going to but the whole allies thing is the only big change that i could get in my army. oh ya, and termies just got really good with the nerf of all power weapons.

ill be using both codex space marines and dark angels to get my army together. considering i never really like to play with the exact same list again and again it will give me many options to use allies, even IG...

so my main list will be something like luther as my chapter master and zaherial as a libby for support and dynamic abilities(not such about what to do with the new spells in 6th) 2-3 termi squads, tacticals, scouts, dev(plasma and missle) and dreads or preds.

im almost done with the building of most of my first list so ill post some pics when im done. thanks for reading.

[Wolfshade]

So will you be playing the fallen as renegade or loyalist?

[apahllo]

renegades i guess, since luther and caliban turned on the lion.

[Wolfshade]

So maybe in clude some chaosy things to show their submission to the dark gods

[Psychosplodge]

Straight chaos marines, no daemons, no defilers, no possessed, no berserkers, no thousand sons etc, basicly play them chaos undivided...

[apahllo]

im actually playing them as vanilla marines. pre hersey paint. part of the legion. its a complicated story line for the fallen, so i decided against playing chaos because it would imply too much.

[Cpt Codpiece]

while i love the DA, i think luther/black DA would not be chaos marines list based.

if you have not already you need to get a hold of 'the primarchs' the events after tsugualsa and the taunting of the night haunter lead LeJ into some pretty murky stuff, dont go any further until you read/listen to "the primarchs"

[Psychosplodge]

I don't mean straight chaos undivided, but an essentially renegade force shouldn't really have ATSKNF...

basiclly red corsairs almost but without daemons as I said before. Just marines without the loyalist benefits.

[Cpt Codpiece]

but thats what i was saying, the events of "the lion" from "the primarchs", hints at events to come in another book, that would mean Luther was not actually chaos oriented at all and the shame of the BA was all the lions doing, on the other hand...... the book with the details may not say that and Luthers DA may have had leanings to choas, however that is not the impression i got from "The Lion".

i also take from "the Lion" T'chulka (the warp device on perditus) will be the one to open the rift and destroy caliban, spreading the fallen in attempt to save the Lion from himself, if he realises that he attacked his own men without taint.

also the lion has always had the watchers with him, as have the higher ranking DA even before the HH.

[Psychosplodge]

I can see that, but I can't get onboard making them black armoured smurfs

[Cpt Codpiece]

i suppose a straight, non deamon list would be ok. but to me i see Luthors guys as the real deal.

even in the old classic gav thorpe angels of darkness, Merir Astelan shows no leanings towards chaos or any traits of the organisation (ie he was just a marine, and operated as any of his time would granted with the DA secrecy still), other than inciting dissent/disorder.

[apahllo]

i liked both of the DA books. but what gets me is whole allegory with the lutheran church, the whole "who's wrongs" question. the the second book fallen angels luther and zahariel try to capture a chaos daemon. and the watchers kinda give away that the whole of caliban is tainted, and im pretty sure they suggest the lion is as well. im sure luther and the lion will have a big part in the new codex. i love the story and mystery behind them as well as the look of both pre-heresy and "modern" DA marines.

6th ed made this so much easier for me to pull this off as i can have vanilla marines and DA be battle brother. im using azreal as luther, who is actually a titan in combat(save the ws 5:( ) as for a second hq, idk. im thinking of having a chapter master for the honor guard squad. but i am having trouble getting them into combat untouched... my other thoughts are having a sternguard squad jump around with gates to infinity, witch is so much fun. deathwing are the ****, even more in 6th ed with the return of true fearless and the power weapon nerf. i just wish i could take more than 5 a squad... on another note i have high hopes for the new dark angels codex!! after seeing how they changed necrons, wolves and BA, im expecting something good and unique.

[Cpt Codpiece]

i like the idea :) having azreal cout as luther is not a bad idea..... just give him a watcher without the helm and say its the watcher giving the save :) as for the WS you could say its because Luther was not a full astartes, hence did not get all the benefits of the geneseed

if you really want the honour guard (really pricey, but still nice) try using a normal capt as astelan as he was a bad mofo in the books.

are you gonna use FW models? i think the MK 3 and 4 would look mean with a few wing helms thrown in, luckilly the DA robed marines are not all that clear on the Mk of suit bar one torso which is easily modded.

ooohhh you have me wanting to go back to my DA now LOL

[apahllo]

Thats a good reason for the bs. And ya, I have the watcher with a sword from the ravening sprue. With my vanguard squad I have a sergant with both plasma and bolt pistol to represent cypher.

The biggest problem I have right now is not having enough death wing due to vanilla marines being the parent list.

But my tactic as of now deep striking shooting units, 2 droppod tactical plasma pistol/power weapon plasma gun and heavy bolter. Libby is with one for a first turn vortex of doom then jump away with gates. I also have 2 normal termie squads with assault cannons and 1 death wing with 5 hammers(always deadly). My biggest problem is anti tank cuz I only have the termies and a dev squad with 3 missiles, but that's for flyers mostly.

So you used to play DA? This is why I made this thread, I need help with tactics:D
Do you know a good way to use ravenwing? I always over extent myself with them and people keep telling me it's all about sam. So any advice on that front would be epic!
I've never had any problems with deathwing but it's bikes I always screw up.

Oh and my Luther model will have the book of lupas strapped to his chest!

[Cpt Codpiece]

I'm not much of a player, more of a lore hound and collector :) though 6th while not the return to 2nd ed i was hoping for, is goading me to want to play more.

one tactic i always thought of as cool was to put a locator beacon on the ravenwing squad and use their movment to get your deathwing with a decent deepstrike.

how big of a book are you wanting to go with Luther? the GK have some nice books on their chest, all that would need ia a little bit of GS to make an open cloak and a set of plastic cape legs and you are all set :)

my brother made a cypher with the plastic vets and a space wolf plasma pist (the wolf could easy be a lion :)) he looks mean.

[apahllo]

i have the metal model for cypher. its pretty awesome, i really look forward to painting it.

the lore is why i choose DA, and with the new allies rules i can use just about any tactic i want with sm+da lists. which is best part of playing a fallen army, i have all my da stuff to paint fallen and use as allies or vanilla marines in my new army. sadly i played through all of fifth with a grey DA army:o

but ya, the ravenwing come with locater beacons on every bike so its a pretty sound tactic. scout moves with turbo boosts get you pretty close for some awesome shooting and drop in some assault cannon deathwing and thats 700-1k fearless points in the face of the enemy on turn 1!

thats what i did in 5th, i'd be able to scout move and shoot 14TL(+/- depending on special weapons) bolter rounds for each ravenwing squad and assault with 2 deathwing squads right behind. kind of a divivde the enemy army in have and then finish off with my dev's and 2 more deathwing squads.

the book im going to use are from the DA vet pack with a fleshy L instead of the sword on the front. its like his whole chest plate but its pretty icon for the whole knights of lupus corruption knowledge luther gain while caretaking caliban. but i have 1 more unmade vet who im gonna try to make into astelan for the drop pod honorgaurd unit. :D i also made another cypher model from a sword brethren box. i used one to make luther as well, and a chapter champion with relic blade.

[Cpt Codpiece]

cool, its sad that your DA ran low on paint last ed :( but now is the time to make up for that :)

the book from the RW sprue is HUGE, maybe put it on a watcher rather than the lion helm? (actually thats not a bad idea.... note to self), just seems a little strange lugging a huge tome around, but i can see the iconography you are going for (its large even compared to the termie librarian book).

have you seen the book from the chaos termie lord? that has 'arcane script' carved into the pages, and its a reasonable size for a marine, i have actually used it on a PH Ahriman conversion i am half way through, and it looks great in his hand (he is reading it with his other hand outsretched casting)

do bikes have the same attack bonus as Jump packs now? (i dont have BRB yet, waiting for box in sept) if they do that is one nasty little charge :) especially with the DW assault behind it.

[apahllo]

ya, the whole not painting thing was me not taking part in all the hobby. is a lot of fun and it really completes an army. ya, i have a ton of chaos bits and it would be good to use some of the arms/chainswords. but the book is good, he has an open pose so its not too bulky. im going to paint him before putting it on to see if it work with the model. i might end up putting it hanging off his belt or something.

i already have 5 playable lists with the models from my DA army and new stuff i picked up. just need more ravenwing and the army will be in full swing. and the bikes get hammer of wrath and jink in the new rules. gonna out flank with skytalon escort! so much out of no where trouble with more deathwing right behind;)

right now im workking on camo for scouts cloth but its not working out, any ideas on camo?

[Col.Straken]

Ally with Wolves (I know you can't benefit from anything as they don't like each other).

I only say this because then you can either use the Cypher model, or make your own and use him as a lone wolf with Plas Pistol/bolt pistol and Mark of Wolfen (Lion Sword) with the new rules if you have two pistols you can shoot them both!!! How's that for fluffy and awesome!

[apahllo]

lol, i think my blood forbids me to try to do this. but i could make it ok if i used the normal sm codex. its a good idea!

[rakshasa]

The more I read new snippets of info as it's being released by BL in books, the more I get convinced that the "Fallen" were loyalists and the Lion and those DA's in the crusade become corupted and wanted to turn renegade.
The war on Caliban stopped that and the remaining DA's saw the error of they're ways and hidden the truth and now hunt the fallen to prevent it from ever being found out.

Who knows what happent to Jonson in his first years on the demon infested forests of Caliban......;)

[Wildeybeast]

The more I read new snippets of info as it's being released by BL in books, the more I get convinced that the "Fallen" were loyalists and the Lion and those DA's in the crusade become corupted and wanted to turn renegade.
The war on Caliban stopped that and the remaining DA's saw the error of they're ways and hidden the truth and now hunt the fallen to prevent it from ever being found out.

Who knows what happent to Jonson in his first years on the demon infested forests of Caliban......;)

Have you read fallen angels? Because that makes it perfectly clear that the whilst the Lion is off smiting dudes for the Emperor and trying to stop Horus in his tracks, those left behind get fed up of the Imperium trashing their planet and secede from it. It's debatable to whether they are Chaos inspired or just idealist rebels, but either way, they cannont possibly be construed as 'loyalists' to the Imperial cause.

[Psychosplodge]

What about that book where the Dark angel is cast adrfit during a space battle in the heresy and wakes 10k years later, on a deamon world, when he's found by a fallen and corrupted former comrade?