6th Ed Fleet rule clearification

[bootstrapbill]

If you fleet move do you lose the ability to assault? If so this will be a big nurf for orks I hope it is a big over by GW

[DrLove42]

5th ed - Fleet allowed you to run then assault

6th ed - If you run you can NEVER assault, even with fleet.
However fleet allows you to re-roll your run and your assault distance dice

It screws a lot of races far worse than it does Orks, so don't worry about yourself too much

[bootstrapbill]

that kills my 12" waagh assault

[SonicPara]

that kills my 12" waagh assault

Just be glad you don't play Mech Eldar and go on your merry way slaying 'umies

[kjolnir]

I'm not sure how much you're really getting screwed since fleet Fleet allows you to reroll Charge distances, and you now Charge 2D6".

Here's what I mean. If you Ran then Charged in 5th, the best you could get is 12". In 6th, if you don't Run but do Charge, the best you can get is...12".

For units that don't have Fleet, their average charge distance is going to be 7". With Fleet, it's going to be more than that.

Edit: Yeah, Orks are getting screwed lol. Everyone else is probably going alright.

[Demonus]

I'm not sure how much you're really getting screwed since fleet Fleet allows you to reroll Charge distances, and you now Charge 2D6".

Here's what I mean. If you Ran then Charged in 5th, the best you could get is 12". In 6th, if you don't Run but do Charge, the best you can get is...12".

For units that don't have Fleet, their average charge distance is going to be 7". With Fleet, it's going to be more than that.

Edit: Yeah, Orks are getting screwed lol. Everyone else is probably going alright.

because in 5th edition, the LEAST you could get was 7". In 6th edition, the LEAST you can get is 2".

[kjolnir]

because in 5th edition, the LEAST you could get was 7". In 6th edition, the LEAST you can get is 2".

Depends on the situation. The least you could get in 5th was 1". Roll a 1 for run, and roll something less than needed for the assault through difficult terrain.

It's not a HUGE deal for me, but all the stuff with which I want to assault is either a flyer or fleet, sooo...

Pretty much everyone else is getting screwed, though.

[DarkLink]

Used to be you moved 6, ran 6, and assaulted 6. Now, you move 6 and assault 2d6. Even with the reroll, it doesn't quite make up for the fact that you've lost that last guaranteed 6" and have to roll for it instead. Fleet units are slower now. You have to be a little bit luckier to move as fast as you used to, and if you have bad luck you can be a lot slower.

[kjolnir]

Used to be you moved 6, ran 6, and assaulted 6. Now, you move 6 and assault 2d6. Even with the reroll, it doesn't quite make up for the fact that you've lost that last guaranteed 6" and have to roll for it instead. Fleet units are slower now. You have to be a little bit luckier to move as fast as you used to, and if you have bad luck you can be a lot slower.

Depending on the situation, however. That last "guaranteed" 6" wasn't guaranteed at all if it was going through difficult terrain. It could quickly turn into a guaranteed 0" if you rolled less than what you needed to assault. Which any player worth his salt is going to try to force you to do.

I can see both sides. While the minimum in 5th (1") was somewhat situational, the situation occurred regularly. The minimum in 6th is 2", regardless of situation.

[DrLove42]

Also...isn't a fleet roll of a guarenteed 6 only for WAAGGHh turns with Ghazgul?

Every other fleet unit was 6" move, D6" run and 6" assault, no re-rolls

Now they're 6" + 2D6" with re-rolls.

Assuming a D6 average of 3.5, 5th ed gave you an avaerage of a 15" threat radius.
6th ed gives 13" before re-rolls. We're probably about the same now.

[Slacker]

I would feel a little better if Gaz's Waaagh! gave you a charge distance of 6" + D6 rather than just the guaranteed 6" run (that you can't assault after)

[DarkLink]

Depending on the situation, however. That last "guaranteed" 6" wasn't guaranteed at all if it was going through difficult terrain.

And difficult terrain still slows you down, but now instead of simply slowing you down from a guaranteed 6", it's slowing you down from an average of 3.5". Just do the math. Fleet is slightly slower now.

[Wildeybeast]

I think fleet is pretty good now actually. No one has mentioned that you can pick which dice you re-roll, so if you get a one good dice when charging, you can keep it and re-roll the naff one. This makes significant difference to your chances of a succesfful charge and compensates for not being able to run IMO.

[kjolnir]

And difficult terrain still slows you down, but now instead of simply slowing you down from a guaranteed 6", it's slowing you down from an average of 3.5". Just do the math. Fleet is slightly slower now.

I'm sorry, I don't follow. If charge range is 2D6", or 3D6" with difficult terrain dropping the highest, how is the average roll going to be 3.5"? Isn't the average roll 7 in both instances?

And in 5th, couldn't difficult terrain drop you to a 0" charge if you failed to roll high enough to get to the closest enemy model? Isn't the lowest possible result in 6th in the same instance exactly the same?

[kjolnir]

I think fleet is pretty good now actually. No one has mentioned that you can pick which dice you re-roll, so if you get a one good dice when charging, you can keep it and re-roll the naff one. This makes significant difference to your chances of a succesfful charge and compensates for not being able to run IMO.

Yeah, I'm thinking along these lines. All they did with the run portion of fleet was move it into the assault phase. It's still probably slightly slower when you don't consider the re-roll, but the re-roll of ANY dice you choose means you're going to be keeping a 4+ and re-rolling any 1-3s. That bumps the average higher.

[DarkLink]

I'm sorry, I don't follow. If charge range is 2D6", or 3D6" with difficult terrain dropping the highest, how is the average roll going to be 3.5"? Isn't the average roll 7 in both instances?

And in 5th, couldn't difficult terrain drop you to a 0" charge if you failed to roll high enough to get to the closest enemy model? Isn't the lowest possible result in 6th in the same instance exactly the same?

Run back then was a D6. Now, you still get a D6, just in your assault move. Back then, the other part of the move was 6", or 2D6 pick the highest. Now, the second part of the move is just a second D6, instead of 6", and instead of 2d6 pick the highest it's 2d6 drop the highest.


The math is a little more complicated than that, because there's techincally a difference between D6+2D6 drop the highest and 3d6 drop the highest, and there's the confounding factor of rerolling dice due to fleet, but it still doesn't quite make up for it.

In 6th, the maximum distance is the same, but you're less likely to reach maximum distance. The average distance in 6th is lower than in 5th. The minimum distance (failed charge) is the same, but you're also more likely to get that minimum distance in 6th.

You're basically slower in every possible way, even if it's only by a small amount. And it is a pretty small amount, but it is there.

[kjolnir]

You're basically slower in every possible way, even if it's only by a small amount. And it is a pretty small amount, but it is there.

How small is the amount? Less than 0.5"?

I'm not THAT worried about it, frankly. Though it does mean I'm rethinking my Hormagaunts now, and might just replace them with another spore pod of Devagants. I'm not going to toss the Trygons out just yet.

[DarkLink]

It's probably something to that effect if you're charging into terrain. It's a little bit bigger, maybe 1"-1.5" otherwise. Something like that. The math would actually be pretty tricky.

[kjolnir]

It's probably something to that effect if you're charging into terrain. It's a little bit bigger, maybe 1"-1.5" otherwise. Something like that. The math would actually be pretty tricky.

So the Fleet roll lets me reroll any amount of the Charge distance dice I want. With 3D6, that would get me a better chance of a longer result than with 2D6, even tossing out the highest, wouldn't it?

[DarkLink]

It gets pretty close. Pretty sure it's still slower. Like I said, the math for rolling multiple dice with rerolls and dropping highest/lowest results gets pretty tedious, so I haven't tried directly.

[kjolnir]

It gets pretty close. Pretty sure it's still slower. Like I said, the math for rolling multiple dice with rerolls and dropping highest/lowest results gets pretty tedious, so I haven't tried directly.

If you do, I'd be interested to see what you come up with.