Flakk Missiles

[RGilbert26]

Has anyone else noticed that while these new missiles are in the rulebook GW have not put them into the updated FAQs? The book states that missile launchers can be upgraded to carry them, yet doesn't say who can have them. Kinda annoying as i know my opponent has at least 2 flyers in his 2000pt Necron army. Going to phone GW today and see if they can clarify this, would love to know that my army now has access to them.

[Calgar33]

I would assume it is because they will be put into 6th ed codecies (for the armies that can purches them) and they just didn't include them in the FAQs.

[DrLove42]

They are available

But only as an upgrade for the Fortress of Redemption i think

AA is sorely lacking. At this point the best bet is a 100 point for a defence line, with a quad gun

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nope, not on the Fortress, they're like Fragstorm Missiles or something.

Also, I don't know what a "Macro Cannon" is, but I know that I want one.

[sverigesson]

Yes, yes, everyone has either:

A) Noticed this and realized that they are putting in the option for future introduction.

B) Tried to argue that "Every missile launcher gets them automatically!"

I'll give you two guesses which one it is, and the first guess doesn't count.

Still, I suppose the more times this comes up, the faster everyone will learn the real rules. Continue.

[eldargal]

It would have been more sensible to give them to all Missile Launchers, instead they say some can upgrade and don't give a list of which ones. 40k isn't a permissive ruleset, unless the option is specifically given you can't take it:( Also give the sodding things to Eldar missile launchers too, please.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Also give the sodding things to Eldar missile launchers too, please.

I knew that you would say that. :p

[DrLove42]

Well, if they only gave it to marines, and not other races it would just further widen the gap between the codexes. Give marines the fliers AND the AA options, but leave Eldar with nothing. Just like the Tau. Or the DE. Or the Nids...

[Bracchus]

Until GW clarifies who and what gets the flakk missiles I would simply ask my opponent if its ok that my ML have them. My guess is that it will be ok 99.99% of the time, unless they are douches.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

If however, they are douches, then don't play them. :D

[eldargal]

Douches that would be 100% right in this case, sorry. If you don't have Flakk Missiles as listed equipment in your codex, or FAQed in, or ruled in by the BRB you can't take them even if it seems you were supposed to be able to. Note I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you are doing, we will be doing that in my group too (with EML as well). But it doesn't change the fact that anyone objecting really has the rules on their side.:( It's what makes it so stupid. All they needed to say was 'all missile launchers' (which would include EML as eldar missile launchers are still missile launchers) now have a third ammunition type etc.'

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

It's not douchey to say "No, you can't give the most common long-range heavy weapon in your army the ability to easily shoot down my fliers."

[DrLove42]

Problem with that argument is all existing aircraft (im'm gonna use the valk as an example here) are severly undercosted as fliers

It was a set points cost when it was a skimmer. Even back then it was undercosted
Its still the same cost, but now it can't be assaulted, and need 6's to hit. It can move much faster. The only "disadvantage" is that its movement is "limited"

If it was more expensive then everyone having cheap missiles would be unfair. But its the same cost, and the number of default weapons that can hit it are reduced significantly. So how is it bad that people can actually have a defense against it?

[Bracchus]

I guess we all play for different reasons, I play for fun, having fliers that almost can't be shot down by several of the armies in the game isn't fun.So granting my opponent flakk missiles to his MLs is what I would do if he/she asked. But hey, thats just me.

[eldargal]

Agreed, but that still doesn't make it anything more than a houserule, and houserules can be challenged without the person necessarily being a douche.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

But douches are for women. :p

[eldargal]

Well, one kind of douche is. Douche just means shower with water basically. It is the single stupidest insult I've ever heard, really. Well, up there with 'tool' at least.

"That guy is a water shower"
"I know right, what a useful device used for specific tasks"

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I prefer the term "f*ckface", that seems much more offensive.

[kjolnir]

Reading the rules as written, it's clear to me that flakk missiles are an upgrade.

Unless you have the option to take them as an upgrade via a FAQ or Codex, you can't take them.

[DrLove42]

Reading the rules as written, it's clear to me that flakk missiles are an upgrade.

Unless you have the option to take them as an upgrade via a FAQ or Codex, you can't take them.

Correct. Page 57;

All missile launchers come with frag and krak missilesas standard AND SOME HAVE THE OPTION TO INCLUDE FLAKK MISSILES

To me, that doesn't sound like they all get them unless they're listed. And no one is. So officially no one gets them.

But you see how much fun a game where the enemy has lots of fliers and you have nothing that can do anything is

[kjolnir]

Correct. Page 57;

All missile launchers come with frag and krak missilesas standard AND SOME HAVE THE OPTION TO INCLUDE FLAKK MISSILES

To me, that doesn't sound like they all get them unless they're listed. And no one is. So officially no one gets them.

But you see how much fun a game where the enemy has lots of fliers and you have nothing that can do anything is

For 85 points you can take an Aegis Defense Line with an Icarus Lascannon, which has both the Skyfire and Interceptor rules. Edit: And a 96" range. So anything on the table it can see.

That's more than nothing.

[Wildcard]

Looking the FAQs that got released it gives reason to make a simple assumption:

GW Needed more time to do stuff. Hence

- They are waiting for clarification qustions to come that they can answer
- They are looking into "balance issues" to fix / make straight with newly introduced weapons and special rules
(i believe i can count atleast half a dozen, if not double that a new special rules that out of all the dexes, no-one can use)
-- So, they go over their plans for new dexes and decide who needs the missiles, and would it be overkill to let people include flakk missiles to typhoon missile launchers for example.. (or give some of the new special rules to the codexes that are not gonna be getting update anytime soon..)

One example: Macro Cannon, nothing yells at much IMPERIAL as that, yet no mentions in the guard (or any marine) dex that i know of.. Rumours giving away cultists, but not any renegade imperial forces would suggest that its addition to be given to wider audience than just the oncoming chaos army (although, it could be that cultist would be getting new artillery piece with macro cannon in it..), but not chaos marines itsel, since they already got reaper autocannon
(macro cannon was something like S7 AP4, heavy 2, blast iirc) so its basically autocannon that blasts away rather than just pens :) (with incredibly more potent at squashing horde armies than autocannons btw..)


So my 2c are that: Given time, we will get way more comprehensive FAQs that answer all these little questions and amend us more weapons and special rules..

[DarkLink]

Right, there are several mysterious new weapons that no one has.

That does not mean that now, all missile launchers magically get flakk missile, because nowhere in anything does it grant, or give one the option to use, them.

[RGilbert26]

Macro Cannons are normally used on Imperial Spaceships, so id imagine it's either a new massive piece of scenery or a new super heavy.

[Wildcard]

Macro Cannons are normally used on Imperial Spaceships, so id imagine it's either a new massive piece of scenery or a new super heavy.

Hmm, yeah its stated many times in the books.. But still (imo it was) S7 ap4, heavy 2, blast, not the weapon anyone would put on a super heavy, yet along to a battleship :)

ofc, one of the 'smaller' super heavies could get a couple of those as turrets..

[sverigesson]

Man, if I had a nickel for every time this question had been asked in the last few days... well, I'd probably have a couple bucks. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it's been asked so much, right?

[eldargal]

People are understandably cranky that their army has no access to skyfire outside purchaes fortifications.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Fortifications that are Imperial specific.

[eldargal]

Well technically, good excuse to make some counts-as xenos terrain though.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I can't think of how to make Eldar defence lines.

[Thanatos_elNyx]

Just build some scenic bases and say the wall is an invisible forcefield.

That is my explanation for Land Raiders having a dozer blade as well.

[Cherub]

I can't think of how to make Eldar defence lines.

get a bunch of marines or guard and make dead body barricades.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hah! Nice suggestions.

[eldargal]

I was thinking along the lines of the fence in the background here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1820193a_99800112001_DarkEldarArchon_873x627.jpg
Mixed with the spikes in the background here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1820620a_99810112006_DEMandrakesCFC_873x627.jpg
Except more Craftworlderesque rather than Commorite. Except for the ones I make for my Dark Eldar of course.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Can't see those. :/

[Wildcard]

Take large base (either 40mm or 60mm) cut clear acryl into semi circles and glue to the base. Wash with blue hues (or how the hell its said anyway..)

The result more or less similar (without curving inwards):

http://www.wargamer.com/files/articles/2661/20090225103004.jpg

PS. Cut the half circle to be as long as one long aegis defence line module is (or ofc, your call, you can have like 2long and 2short ones.. get creative :) )

[The AKH]

Yeah, the forceshields from Dawn of War would've been my first idea for Eldar defense lines.

[sfshilo]

Yeah I think our store is going to house rule that any missile launcher gets the damn thing, I don't know what GW was thinking.

[The AKH]

Yeah I think our store is going to house rule that any missile launcher gets the damn thing, I don't know what GW was thinking.

I think GW was thinking "Let's add this cool new counter to flying units, and implement it as we roll out new codices for Sixth."

Personally, I'll just have my Tactical Marines with missile launchers jog across the field while snapfiring krak missiles at pesky flyers. I can wait for flakk missiles.

[rle68]

yeah lets all wait for the new dexes to come out and in 5 years when were at 7th edition and they outlaw the damn things what then ?

it is entirely stupid to put out a new upgrade and not specify.. i agree flyers are over powered and way under priced but thats what gw wants they have sold all the armor they ever will and now everyone is out buying flyers and vibro cannons

if they do list flakk missle and codex specific and they let out 2 dexes a year it will be bogus as hell for all

[sludig]

so back on track here, The BRB states that Missile Launchers (not missile pods, rokkit launchers,Eldar missile launchers, or Typhoon missile launchers) have the ability to upgrade to include flakk. The appendix in the back of the book lists flakk as a type of ammo for a Missile Launcher. This leads me to believe that flakk was added as another type of ammo for the Missile Launcher to deal with flyers and FMCs.

the only forces with Missile Launchers are Imperial and CSM, I.E. all Marine chapters, IG and Sisters of Battle. So Xenos get bent again.

[evilamericorp]

so back on track here, The BRB states that Missile Launchers (not missile pods, rokkit launchers,Eldar missile launchers, or Typhoon missile launchers) have the ability to upgrade to include flakk. The appendix in the back of the book lists flakk as a type of ammo for a Missile Launcher. This leads me to believe that flakk was added as another type of ammo for the Missile Launcher to deal with flyers and FMCs.

the only forces with Missile Launchers are Imperial and CSM, I.E. all Marine chapters, IG and Sisters of Battle. So Xenos get bent again.

No one is getting bent, because no one can use Flakk missiles yet. This argument is like saying it's unfair that Space Marines get primarchs and no one else does.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

the only forces with Missile Launchers are Imperial and CSM, I.E. all Marine chapters, IG and Sisters of Battle. So Xenos get bent again.Once all 'dexs are updated to actually include them, Flakks will apply to ~7 armies, so it's worth listing in the BRB. The AA used by the Xenos will only apply to their 'dex alone, so it isn't included in the BRB.

[sludig]

where does it say no one can use them, is that a decision that has been arbitrarily made. it clearly states that a Missile Launcher gets them, albeit the wording is messed up.

the getting bent comment was for those who care about such things. As we all know the SM/Imperium are the favored children of GW.



Side note
Go have a brisket sandwich from the Salt Lick for me will ya. :D

[SeattleDV8]

where does it say no one can use them, is that a decision that has been arbitrarily made. it clearly states that a Missile Launcher gets them, albeit the wording is messed up.


Well there's where you're wrong, it does not say that.
BRB Pg.57
All missile launchers come with frag and krak standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles.

Not all missile launchers get the flakk upgrade, as it stands right now none do.
It is an upgrade, it is not standard.
Wait for the new codices or FAQ's.

[sludig]

Well there's where you're wrong, it does not say that.
BRB Pg.57

Not all missile launchers get the flakk upgrade, as it stands right now none do.
It is an upgrade, it is not standard.

Quit whining and wait for the new codices or FAQ's.

not whining just trying to understand. and you are right not ALL missile launchers get flakk, there are Eldar missile launchers and typhoon missile launchers that dont get the "upgrade".


so the end result of the entire conversation is wait till GW gets off its rear end and makes a decision on a rule.


*Please read the TOS*

[evilamericorp]

Side note
Go have a brisket sandwich from the Salt Lick for me will ya. :D

Pssh, Salt Lick is where we send the tourists. If you ever find yourself in Austin and want some good meat, stop on by this tasty trailer. (http://jmuellerbbq.com/)

Or you could take a nice drive out in the country and eat the best meat on the planet. (http://www.coopersbbqllano.com/)

[sludig]

Im From Corpus originally but spent 16 years in San Antonio. I have been to all 3 said places. but after a good night of 40k with friends I prefer this place http://chachos.com/ I cant do that fancy linking stuff. :p . g Good Ritas and a mountain of nachos


Got stuck up here in Virginia where they have never heard of a barbacoa taco :(
Sunday morning just isnt the same

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

so the end result of the entire conversation is wait till GW gets off its rear end and makes a decision on a rule. There've been a couple of e-mails sent in to GW, the responses being along the lines of "Missile Launchers which cannot purchase the upgrade cannot use the upgrade". Not about to do a forum-search for them, tho :P

[DarkLink]

not whining just trying to understand. and you are right not ALL missile launchers get flakk, there are Eldar missile launchers and typhoon missile launchers that dont get the "upgrade".

Don't make up rules. Nowhere does it say "all missile launchers can use flakk". Nowhere does it say "all missile launchers, except eldar missile launchers, may use flakk".

It says "some missile launchers may take flakk". That means, some can, and some can't, but it doesn't say which ones. So you have to look at the codex. And since no codex currently says "may upgrade to flakk missiles", no one can use them, because nowhere does it give anybody actual permission to use flakk missiles. Nowhere does it say, "these guys may use flakk missiles". And since you need permission to take a weapon, and it does not grant that permission anywhere, you cannot take them.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Thread closed. No flakk missiles for anyone yet.