Tervigons and gate of infinity+spawn termagants

[Fabulous_999]

Can a tervigon cast gate of infinity on himself, deep strike to its new location, and then use the spawn termagant ability afterward?

[Limey El'Jonson]

Or indeed gate it's children to where they're needed. Oh there's some end-game objective grabbing shenanigans.

[Tynskel]

Can a tervigon cast gate of infinity on himself, deep strike to its new location, and then use the spawn termagant ability afterward?

Probably not, because the Spawned Gaunts occur BEFORE the tervigon moves.

[Fabulous_999]

But does casting gate of infinity count as moving?

[Wolfshade]

But does casting gate of infinity count as moving?

I believe we've been here before :o

[gcsmith]

According to the rule book, they both occur at the begining of the movement phase.

Also he can't gate another unit, since the tervigon isn't an independent character.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

According to the rule book, they both occur at the begining of the movement phase.

Also he can't gate another unit, since the tervigon isn't an independent character.

Poor Tyranids... What does it look like to have a glance of hope?

[rtmaitreya]

The main question still hasn't been answered. Here are some good things to think about:

TYRANID CODEX

QUESTION: How does a Tervigon’s spawning power interact with the psychic power “Gate of Infinity”.

RELEVANCE: This is an important question, since Tervigons will often choose Telekinesis psychic powers in order to try to get Objuration Mechanicum for desperately needed anti-flyer capabilities. The ability to spawn then teleport, or teleport then spawn each open up potential for abuse or confusion.

PSYCHIC POWER RULES: Gate of Infinity (MR p. 146) is a blessing that targets the Tervigon himself (and any attached ICs if present in his/her unit). You remove the unit from the board and re-enter using the rules for Deep Strike within 24” (plus some additional rules that don’t matter for this question). Blessing psychic powers (MR p. 68) are used at the Start of the Movement Phase. You are not allowed to move anyone anywhere until all powers and events that trigger at the Start of the Movement Phase are completed. Once you begin moving units, the Start of the Movement Phase is over, and you are into the Main portion of the Movement Phase.

DEEP STRIKE RULES: Normally, deployment from Reserves via Deep Strike occurs “at the start of your turn” (MR. p. 124), which is perhaps even earlier than “the Start of the Movement Phase of your turn”, although such a distinction is debatable, and not necessarily relevant. Deep Striking rules (MR p. 36) explicitly state that “In the movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further”. No particularly relevant inconsistencies are found between Gate of Infinity and the normal Deep Strike rules, but note explicit “cannot move during their movement phase”.

SPAWN POWER RULES: A Tervigon can spawn Termagants in the Tyranid Movement Phase before it has moved, even if it is locked in assault (plus a bunch of non-relevant rules), with an important note that the spawned unit may subsequently move in the Movement Phase as normal (along with other non-relevant rules).

POSSIBILITY 1: A Tervigon that Deep Strikes due to the psychic power Gate of Infinity does so before the main part of the movement phase, as it must teleport at the start of the movement phase (like all blessings). Once it teleports, it is bound by Deep Strike rules that it cannot move during the Movement Phase. You may, however, spawn Termagants, then elect to “choose the Tervigon” for its movement option, and must select “does not move”. You may then select the Termagants during the main part of the movement phase, and go off to hijinks.

POSSIBILITY 2: A Tervigon may spawn Termagants during the beginning of the movement phase, because the spawn power does not restrict you from spawning “only during the main part of the movement phase” nor does it demand that you “move the Tervigon immediately after you spawn”. You may, therefore, spawn new Termagants, THEN perform the Gate of Infinity, and Deep Strike your Tervigon somewhere else.

POSSIBILITY 3: Either answer 1 or 2 is an option under a liberal reading of the rules of timing. The teleport or the spawning can be performed at the start of the movement phase in either order as you see fit.

This seems like the kind of thing that should be popping up in almost every battle with Tyranids. Both options are potentially powerful tricks to pull on an opponent. I could see someone complaining about (or attempting to justify) any of these three possibilities to a tournament judge.

[Kayvaan28]

Did anyone ever try it in a game?
even without spawning in the same turn als teleporting,
how does a tervigon that moves 24" chance the game?

[Hippie]

BRB pg 36 Deep strike if you read the entire entry you'll see

In the Movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark.....

This indicates the Deep strike is indeed movement and the following paragraph states

In that turn's shooting phase, these units can fire(or run) as normal, and obviously count as having moved in the previous movement phase. Vehicles, except for walkers, count as having moved at cruising speed(even immobile vehicles).

So basically a resounding NO you can't Gate and then Spawn Gaunts.

[SacredChao]

BRB pg 36 Deep strike if you read the entire entry you'll see


This indicates the Deep strike is indeed movement and the following paragraph states


So basically a resounding NO you can't Gate and then Spawn Gaunts.

The issue is that the problem is with the timing that people have been having since 6th came out. Which comes first, Reserves or Blessing/Maledictions? Same thing here.

The Tervagon has not *actually* moved, because the movement phase hasn't happened yet, it just can't after it deep strikes. And the quote you have for shooting phase? Well, that's shooting phase rules, and while it says it has moved, well, it has... but not in the normal movement that can definitively disallow spawning.

However, I believe there is a rule in the beginning of the rulebook (don't have it on me right now to give page number) that says that if multiple things are happening at the same time, the person whose turn it is gets to choose the order. That would imply that the Tervigon player could use the blessing to deep strike before movement, then spawn before movement.

However, without a definitive FAQ about this, I would say if you really hate giving the tyranids any sort of reprieve for having a subpar codex, roll off for it. :P

[Magpie]

Although the GoI occurs prior to the movement phase technically commencing, because a unit that uses GoI is Deep Striking and the act of deep striking counts as having moved in that movement phase.

[Allen Broussard]

So they could spawn then deep strike, but not deep strike then spawn.............

Not a bad idea as far as objective control is concerned.

[Kayvaan28]

If you could spawn and use GoI you could chose what to do first as SacredChao has mentioned. (Page number 9 btw).
Deep striking should be a kind of movement and spawning happens before the movement. So if use a blessing and have moved after the use of the blessing you can't spawn and if you spawn you should already have cast the blessing. But this is all so presumptive. An FAQ here would be nice. Until then I'm gone role off for it.

[Magpie]

So they could spawn then deep strike, but not deep strike then spawn.............

Not a bad idea as far as objective control is concerned.

No because the Tervigon Spawns IN the movement phase before it has moved, not "at the start of the movement phase" which is when Psychic powers are resolved.
There is no "actions at the same time" conflict with Spawning and GoI, they occur at different times.