What is the AP of a Bonesword?

[Chris Copeland]

I cannot find "bonesword" in the weapon list in the BRB. Are they AP2 or 3? Thoughts? Cheers. Cope

[Chris Copeland]

I think it must be AP2 since one does not get armor saves versus a Bonesword...

[kjolnir]

Boneswords wielded by a Monstrous Creature are AP2 due to the Smash special rule.

Boneswords wielded by non-Monstrous Creatures...not sure what the answer is there. Since they are essentially identical to power swords but for the potential insta-kill special quality, I would lean towards AP3.

//edit - changes "Tyranid Warrior" to "non-Monstrous Creature" since other Tyranid units like the tyrant guard can take boneswords as well.

[Chris Copeland]

My understanding is that Codexes trump everything else. In the Tyranid Codex it says, "No armor saves may be taken against wounds inflicted by a Tyranid with a bonesword." Actually, that explains WHY boneswords aren't listed. They don't need to be. The Codex already explains exactly how they work. This, of course, is the equivalent of AP1 but doesn't need an AP listing... cheers...

[kjolnir]

My understanding is that Codexes trump everything else. In the Tyranid Codex it says, "No armor saves may be taken against wounds inflicted by a Tyranid with a bonesword." Actually, that explains WHY boneswords aren't listed. They don't need to be. The Codex already explains exactly how they work. This, of course, is the equivalent of AP1 but doesn't need an AP listing... cheers...

If that's the case, then the codex and Smash don't conflict, since there's nothing with an 1+ armor save.

HOWEVER, AP2 weapons only give you a +1 to vehicle damage. AP1 gives you +2.

Hmm...this question is getting more interesting the more I think about it.

So, if boneswords don't allow an armor save, then the best they could be is AP2, right?

[Chris Copeland]

So, if boneswords don't allow an armor save, then the best they could be is AP2, right?

I agree with that logic. The Codex explicitly states that there are no armor saves against boneswords so against infantry (including Terminators) the matter is settled. It is a bit more complicated when vehicles are involved. I'm guessing AP2... Cope

[kjolnir]

Yeah, I would now lean towards AP2 for non-MCs as well. Nice.

Warriors still aren't worth it, though.

[Bean]

It's not that complicated. Just do exactly what the rulebook says--and no more.

You can't take armor saves against a bonesword. That doesn't make the bonesword AP 1 or AP 2. It gets no bonuses against vehicles--there would have to be a rule somewhere that says that it does, and there isn't.

Ignores armor saves, doesn't get any bonuses against vehicles. That's the RAW. No reason to go outside of it, really.

[kjolnir]

You can't take armor saves against a bonesword. That doesn't make the bonesword AP 1 or AP 2. It gets no bonuses against vehicles--there would have to be a rule somewhere that says that it does, and there isn't.

Ignores armor saves, doesn't get any bonuses against vehicles. That's the RAW. No reason to go outside of it, really.

So then having a Bonesword on my MC gives me no damage bonus against vehicles?

I have a very hard time believing that.

[Bean]

So then having a Bonesword on my MC gives me no damage bonus against vehicles?

I have a very hard time believing that.

Aren't all MC attacks AP 2 anyway?

But, whether you believe it or not, that's the way it is--Boneswords are not AP 2 unless the rules say they are--and the rules don't say they are.

Ignoring armor saves is not the same as being AP 2, whether you like the consequences or not.

[kjolnir]

Aren't all MC attacks AP 2 anyway?

But, whether you believe it or not, that's the way it is--Boneswords are not AP 2 unless the rules say they are--and the rules don't say they are.

Ignoring armor saves is not the same as being AP 2, whether you like the consequences or not.

ROFL no need to get a nasty attitude about it. Geez.

Here's the reason why it doesn't make sense. The Tyranid Codex described Boneswords the exact same way power weapons were described in 5th, save the one difference about the potential insta-kill (which is irrelevant). Basic power swords are now AP3 in 6th, but I'm supposed to believe that otherwise completely identical boneswords are AP* with * = target gets no armor save? I get the effect of an AP2 weapon against infantry, but not vehicles? Come on.

[Sonikgav]

Boneswords are Anti-Infantry Weapons anyway. If you want tank busters take Crushing Claws, thats what theyre for.

Tyranids are supposed to be one of the best CC armies out there so why shouldnt they get something fancy? It makes up for their lack of variety at range etc.

[Bean]

ROFL no need to get a nasty attitude about it. Geez.

Here's the reason why it doesn't make sense. The Tyranid Codex described Boneswords the exact same way power weapons were described in 5th, save the one difference about the potential insta-kill (which is irrelevant). Basic power swords are now AP3 in 6th, but I'm supposed to believe that otherwise completely identical boneswords are AP* with * = target gets no armor save? I get the effect of an AP2 weapon against infantry, but not vehicles? Come on.

I think the answer is that you're supposed to play by the rules. Don't try to make up rules to fix problems that aren't there.

The rules say it ignores armor saves. The rules don't say anything about bonuses against vehicles. The rules are perfectly functional, as is. There's no reason to make up new rules.

That said, you''re right--it was basically identical to a power weapon in fifth. If you really wanted to make the equivalent switch, you'd call it ap 3, like a power weapon. AP 2 has no basis in the rules or in precedent or in any sort of cogent logic.

Just play the game by the rules. It's so much simpler that way.

[kjolnir]

Boneswords are Anti-Infantry Weapons anyway. If you want tank busters take Crushing Claws, thats what theyre for.

Tyranids are supposed to be one of the best CC armies out there so why shouldnt they get something fancy? It makes up for their lack of variety at range etc.

I'd say with the new Flying MC rules, Tyranid are VERY interesting at range, now.

I can see it both ways, though it seems strange to me that they wouldn't give the weapon a specific AP value. I guess they didn't since doing so would either negate the Tyranid codex or make it popular against vehicles for non-MCs. So it's Str: Wielder AP: * with * = non-vehicles do not get armor saves.

[kjolnir]

I think the answer is that you're supposed to play by the rules.

LOL who says I haven't? I'm here trying to determine what those rules are, exactly. Just get the chip off your shoulder already.


You're right--it was basically identical to a power weapon in fifth. If you really wanted to make the equivalent switch, you'd call it ap 3, like a power weapon. AP 2 has no basis in the rules or in precedent or in any sort of cogent logic.

Except that Terminators have a 2+ armor save, denied by the Bonesword. That's a small argument in favor of AP2. Oh, and power axes are +1 strength and AP2 whereas they were identical to power swords before. There's no such thing anymore as a generic power weapon.


Just play the game by the rules. It's so much simpler that way.

ROFL!!!

[gendoikari87]

Aren't all MC attacks AP 2 anyway?

But, whether you believe it or not, that's the way it is--Boneswords are not AP 2 unless the rules say they are--and the rules don't say they are.

Ignoring armor saves is not the same as being AP 2, whether you like the consequences or not.

This, they are close combat weapons that don't allow armor saves. Nothing more, no additional +1 on the damage table.

[kjolnir]

This, they are close combat weapons that don't allow armor saves. Nothing more, no additional +1 on the damage table.

Yeah, I tend to think you're right now.

It's mostly moot for me since my new list is almost exclusively Flying MCs anyway.