The Resurrection of White Dwarf?

[sverigesson]

This is, in my opinion, one of the most brilliant moves by GW in this new rulebook, from a business standpoint (allies and fortifications being the big ones). I am of course, referring to the mentions of including new fortification rules and unique terrain not in codexes, but in the once hallowed pages of everyone's favorite tree-killer. Now, we all know that White Dwarf has in recent years become a shadow of its former self, but it seems like GW is trying to revitalize it. This also adds increased credence to the rumors that GW may add ally only forces to WD, not to mention any number of other goodies that could start appearing. I never thought WD was worth the cost of admission, but if this speculation is true and GW actually turns the rag around, I may consider a subscription in the near future. Well played, GW... Well played.

[Wildeybeast]

Assuming of course that they do actually do that and that this month's advertising booklet was a one-off return to the bad old days, then it will be a welcome development. They have shown signs of improving it and adding new content in recnet months.

[Chris Copeland]

I've always loved White Dwarf. I came into this hobby in the middle of IVth Edition and have always eagerly waited for each month's copy. I've not seen this "decline" that some of my beardier, longer-playing friends speak of. I like the painting articles. I like Jervis' perpetual positive outlook about good sportsmanship. I dig the previews of upcoming models and the interviews with game designers. I even like the fake battle reports. They are fake, right? Or should we buy their explanation that they run several battles and just publish their favorite one?

At $5.83 an issue I find WD to be a very good deal! Every other hobby/specialist magazine I could point to costs around $10-$12 per issue. I get WD for less than $6 per issue!

I think that giving us new rules to use via WD is brilliant! It should increase sales of WD, increase sales of minis, and increase my enjoyment of this game I love. Of course, that's just continuing something they've already been doing (Spearhead, the Night Spinner, Sisters of Battle all come to mind).

Cope

[eldargal]

It isn't so much a decline as inconsistent quality. This months issue was decent, for example, but most of the 6th edition coverage was all puff. It was saved by lots of pretty pictures, features on studio armies and a few other things (like describibg Jeremy Vetock as an excitable American). The previous month had some good things, and new rules, but the other articles were all a bit flat.

What really irritates me about some of the 'WD i teh suck! crowd, though, is how nothing is ever good enough. On Warseer they all whine about WD never having any content, so an issue with rules for 4 units comes out and on the WD poll most peopel give it 1 out of 10! How the F*** can an issue with rules for four new units be 1 out of 10? 1 out of 10 is an issue with no redeeming qualities AT ALL. ******s.

[Wildeybeast]

They're more staged than fake. They usually play a couple of trial games first to see how it goes, then do a geniune one which gets reported on. That report is somewhat artifical since every turn takes a good hour or so as they take notes of what happens, take photos of the models etc. but they are genuinely competing.

The issue is WD used to have new content in all the time, not to mention free stuff. There was a time when they released mini games like the awesome Brewhouse Bash and used WD to trial the rules for Mordheim before the proper release. They went through a stage a couple of years ago when all that disapperead and it was just interviews with designers, sculpters etc about whatever the latest release is. With the likes of Stormtalon and Terrorgeist rules appearing recently, they have been moving back towards content, but I am very worried by this months issue. It was utter pap. Not only did not have any new stuff, but had nothing at all of any value of significance about the new edition. That was a great opportunity for a round table discussion about the creation process, tatical insights into the new rules etc. Instead we had a useless general info piece, endless pages of employees showing off their armies and bat reps that showcased the money making part of the new rules - allies. It was a terrible waste of what could have been great coverage of the new ed.

Edit: I should add, in light of EG's post, I'm not one of the boo sucks crowd, I am loyal subscriber, I just thought that this months was really poor and when they have set such high standards in the past they should be held to them. And they can also not be let off the hook for the grammatical errors and typos that are in every single issue.

[eldargal]

I like the army showcases though, it is nice to see a whole lot of armies page after page that haven't been painted by the eavy metal team. Agree on the rest of the issue though, a real step back considering that we've had a lot of new rules and good articles lately (WFB Civil War, Ork Flyers, Stormtalon hm and something else I'm forgetting, terrain rules or something?)

[Wildeybeast]

I like the army showcases though, it is nice to see a whole lot of armies page after page that haven't been painted by the eavy metal team. Agree on the rest of the issue though, a real step back considering that we've had a lot of new rules and good articles lately (WFB Civil War, Ork Flyers, Stormtalon hm and something else I'm forgetting, terrain rules or something?)

Each to their own. It doesn't really do anything for me, though I did like the Beastman conversion. I would have appreciated the armies showcase more if it was alongside more substantial content, rather than being in place of it.

Edit: Deathworld terrain rules is probably what you are thinking off.

[isotope99]

The thing that's bugged me more than anything else in the first 6 issues of 2012 has been the decline in the number and quality of the proper battle reports.

Apart from completely new rules, I can get almost everything else online but without trying to bash anyone's efforts, a studio army/terrain battle report properly photographed is almost impossible to duplicate.

This month's issue is the first all year where the battle reports have been any good and most months they have been almost completely absent.

EDIT: I also liked the staff armies but there were just too many pages of them.

[energongoodie]

White Dwarf used to be brilliant. We had new rules,units, additions to games, stories and stuff. I was great. It really, really was. It has not been great for a very long time.
If the rumours of units and fortifications and other bits and bobs making a welcome return to WD are true, then I for one will be very happy to get a subscription again. I think I cancelled my last subscription in 1996. I would love to start another one.

And yes, I do have a short well kept(ish) beard.

[LordGrise]

Hmm. Well, I do not have a beard (although i do maintain a small tuft just below the lower lip, hope that counts-as?) and I have not been playing of this game all that long ( well, technically, I've owned an army for more than ten years, but I've only been 'active' for about as long as I've been on here - it's a long story) But I'm gonna stick my two cents in on the subject of White Dwarf.

I have a look thru it pretty much every time the Minister of Finance endulges me with a trip to my fave independent store (usually in exchange for her visiting one or another of her beloved yarn shops, so it's fairly regular) And I have never bought one. The closest I've ever come was when they did the Sisters so wrong, but since they only had the second half, I didn't buy. If they'd have had both issues, I might have; my wife seems to like them. But other than that? I'm sorry, but there's nothing there for me.

I play the game, and I build the models (with increasingly ambitious mods, lately) But folks, a painter I am not. My hero in the hobby is a feller who posted under the handle Grey Death; he did insane mods, stuff that I want to recreate... and maybe one day I will. Showpiece pix and battle reports? Please. Give me well-written stories (I do those, too) Give me building tips, give me conversion projects, and I'll buy. Give me those, plus (unsanctioned, suggested, unofficialsted, I don't care!) statlines for those conversions on a regular basis and I'll subscribe in a hot San Antonio second. They don't even have to be for the Tau now, since Allies are back in. But endless look how good they look painted pieces... I just shake my head, admire, and move on. I can't recreate them, so I'm not interested.

My two cents. Anyone who feels the need to post about how practice makes perfect, please dont; I can do broad stroke and spray-type painting, but fine-detail stuff makes my hands shake after a very short time.

[DrLove42]

There seems to be a oot of "Chapter approved" logos throughout the rule bok. Sign of a return?

[Mr Mystery]

Never had a problem with WD. You'll note the vast majority of it's detractor have no experience in writing for a monthly magazine. It can't be easy to come up with article after article like that.

And just how often can you produce new rules? The internet is the natural home of the FAQ, as they remain easily accessible.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a return to the old comic strips in them, even just a single page slow burner could be cool!

People also have to appreciate it's primary intention is to help the newer gamer. Read *any* magazine for a period of years, and it is of course going to become ultimately repetitive. It's unavoidable when it's not a comic book, and even then it's touch and go! A (usually self appointed) Veteran gamer shouldn't need articles to do what they do. Their own community will be providing far more than the printed page can.

[The AKH]

The one thing that I'll point out with regard to Mystery's point is that, for me, the 'decline' became noticeable when GW essentially disbanded the American and Canadian studios and brought WD production 'home'. I started to notice a lot fewer hobby articles, non-'eavy metal army showcases, etc. There used to be whole features in the US White Dwarfs devoted to campaign systems, alternate army lists, casual rules and such ("Warhammer Chronicles" and "Chapter Approved", I believe). In the 'new' more centralized WD, that kind of content seems to have fallen by the wayside.

[Wildeybeast]

Never had a problem with WD. You'll note the vast majority of it's detractor have no experience in writing for a monthly magazine. It can't be easy to come up with article after article like that.

And just how often can you produce new rules? The internet is the natural home of the FAQ, as they remain easily accessible.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a return to the old comic strips in them, even just a single page slow burner could be cool!

People also have to appreciate it's primary intention is to help the newer gamer. Read *any* magazine for a period of years, and it is of course going to become ultimately repetitive. It's unavoidable when it's not a comic book, and even then it's touch and go! A (usually self appointed) Veteran gamer shouldn't need articles to do what they do. Their own community will be providing far more than the printed page can.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree. No I don't have any experience writing for a magazine, but that isn't my job. As a teacher I'm expected to consistently produce good quality lessons and whilst I realistically can't do it all the time, I'm expected to maintain a generally good standard and I'm judged accordingly. I am held to those standards by people with no clue of what my job involves because they are stakeholders in my line of work (parents/taxpayers). That's my job, I'm paid for it and I accept it. It's not easy, but it's what I'm trained, qualified and paid for. If your job is to write for a gaming magazine, then I see no reason why it is unreasonable for consumers of said magazine, as stake holders, to expect a consistently good standard of writing both in terms of content and the ability to proof read your work properly, regardless of any experience the consumer actually has. If you are not capable of doing that you are in the wrong profession.

We are not expecting new rules every issue, (though the people writing them do it day in, day out as their job) and repition is not the issue, quality is.

And I fail to see how anyone new to the hobby this month would benefit from reading WD as there was nothing informative or instructional in there. Thay would get just as much from looking at the models in the display case of your local store and far more from asking for a demo game there. WD is not primarily aimed at new gamers and never has been, it is designed to cater to all gamers.


There seems to be a oot of "Chapter approved" logos throughout the rule bok. Sign of a return?

Yeah, I was puzzled by that too. Not sure what to make of it.

[Mr Mystery]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree. No I don't have any experience writing for a magazine, but that isn't my job. As a teacher I'm expected to consistently produce good quality lessons and whilst I realistically can't do it all the time, I'm expected to maintain a generally good standard and I'm judged accordingly. I am held to those standards by people with no clue of what my job involves because they are stakeholders in my line of work (parents/taxpayers). That's my job, I'm paid for it and I accept it. It's not easy, but it's what I'm trained, qualified and paid for. If your job is to write for a gaming magazine, then I see no reason why it is unreasonable for consumers of said magazine, as stake holders, to expect a consistently good standard of writing both in terms of content and the ability to proof read your work properly, regardless of any experience the consumer actually has. If you are not capable of doing that you are in the wrong profession.

We are not expecting new rules every issue, (though the people writing them do it day in, day out as their job) and repition is not the issue, quality is.

And I fail to see how anyone new to the hobby this month would benefit from reading WD as there was nothing informative or instructional in there. Thay would get just as much from looking at the models in the display case of your local store and far more from asking for a demo game there. WD is not primarily aimed at new gamers and never has been, it is designed to cater to all gamers.



Yeah, I was puzzled by that too. Not sure what to make of it.

I think I've failed in my typing. I'm not saying their is any excuse for poor writing skills overall, but that those who demand new rules every month, and new campaigns and so on have an unrealistic expectaction. Many would be articles show up online, or are provided by the community. WD is primarily a recruitment and teaching tool, thus it cannot go into massive amounts of detail. That's our job!

[Wildeybeast]

I agree we shouldn't expect new rules every month, but quality articles, yes. As I've said before, there could have been some great articles looking at the creation process of 6th and how it matches up to previous ones, along with some of the key changes, which would keep vets happy. Alongside that could have been an intro to the basic mechanics, a rough guide to the fluff for each army, what units should you buy for your new army etc, which would have helped noobs. This issue had neither, just glorified product placement.

[dwez]

Number 1 thing White Dwarf can do to improve is cut the Specialist Stockist and Store directory. Sure keep the two pages on a particular Store Spotlight, or your local library club/retail but seriously your spending 6 or 7 pages listing every stockist worldwide? Back in the day before the internet this made sense, this was perhaps the surest way to let folk know where they could by their stuff but if we're going to pay good money we don't need that list or at least not at the expense of quality content - tutorials, rules, reports, painting guides.

If they want to list anything, then just announce the new stores opened and just drop a link to remind folk where they can go online to get a full comprehensive list that'll be able to provide directions to your smart phone. I accept White Dwarf is an advert for GW product and they want to support stores and stockists but I'm not ten years old anymore and going on holiday with my folks and need to find out where the nearest stockist is because there were only about ten!

[LordGrise]

I never thought the day would come that I'd be agreeing with Wildey ::tips the hat in his direction:: but ESPECIALLY in the age of the internet, filling a hundred pages or so of a magazine is not, or at least should not be, a difficult task. One hundred pages, at least thirty of which are going to be advertising, four to six of fiction, ten - twelve pages for a battle report, five or six for an interview with someone of interest (NOT always someone from GW, could be an award winner, an event organizer, just someone who's having an impact on the hobby) ten - twelve for a monthly feature on a store (again, NOT always a company store, there are lots of places where there isn't a GW store, and the independents need to be supported) ten - twelve or so on a conversion project, ten - twelve or so on a painting project, ten - twelve for an event recap or coverage of an upcoming event, and ten to fifteen for a feature article each month. One third to one half of any article would be photos and artwork.

The thing is, this is posited on WD being world-wide coverage. In the age of the internet, getting your material in is, or ought to be, easy; doing the layout is relatively easy (I remember four yearbooks done completely by hand) the biggest delay is the printer and shipping the issues. Emergency page replacements? Batreps, fictions, fluff pieces, spare interviews - it's not hard. The biggest challenge is getting a good team in place in the back office, and finding dependable, quality writers.

I dunno. What would you like to see in WD?

[Mr Mystery]

All joking apart, has anyone written to them requesting specific types of article? Me, I'd like to see an area of the magazine for fan created content. If we don't request it, or even better submit articles, then we definitely won't get it. Perhaps a 'Banna Wava' part, where we fans can wax lyrical about what we enjoy? That'd be up my street!

[Psychosplodge]

I miss the quality none staff articles they used to have.

[Black Hydra]

Well I just would like Chapter Approved stuff. Like using Lizardmen as Tarrellian auxiliaries for Tau, or having rules for Chaos Eldar and so forth. There's a lot of potential there for conversions, new forces and whatnot. I just hope the Allies rule isn't a cope out though. Now counts-as armies will be easier to do, but it won't be the same as having rules for something new.

[Wildeybeast]

I never thought the day would come that I'd be agreeing with Wildey ::tips the hat in his direction:: but ESPECIALLY in the age of the internet, filling a hundred pages or so of a magazine is not, or at least should not be, a difficult task. One hundred pages, at least thirty of which are going to be advertising, four to six of fiction, ten - twelve pages for a battle report, five or six for an interview with someone of interest (NOT always someone from GW, could be an award winner, an event organizer, just someone who's having an impact on the hobby) ten - twelve for a monthly feature on a store (again, NOT always a company store, there are lots of places where there isn't a GW store, and the independents need to be supported) ten - twelve or so on a conversion project, ten - twelve or so on a painting project, ten - twelve for an event recap or coverage of an upcoming event, and ten to fifteen for a feature article each month. One third to one half of any article would be photos and artwork.

The thing is, this is posited on WD being world-wide coverage. In the age of the internet, getting your material in is, or ought to be, easy; doing the layout is relatively easy (I remember four yearbooks done completely by hand) the biggest delay is the printer and shipping the issues. Emergency page replacements? Batreps, fictions, fluff pieces, spare interviews - it's not hard. The biggest challenge is getting a good team in place in the back office, and finding dependable, quality writers.

I dunno. What would you like to see in WD?


I wasn't aware we'd had any significant disagreements before. :confused: Have I not been paying attention properly? :confused:

Anyhoo, you are spot with your suggestions and printing delays shouldn't be too much of an issue since WD gets sent to the printers three months before it hits the newsstands. You hit the nail on the head with getting quality staff. I have no idea what recruitment process GW has nor the previous experience the WD staffers have, but the organisation of the mag is shoddy at best. For a start, they have no subeditors, nor anyone dedicated to covering any particular area. It just seems like they divvy up the articles each month on some arbitrary process, which is not the way to run a professional magazine.


Number 1 thing White Dwarf can do to improve is cut the Specialist Stockist and Store directory. Sure keep the two pages on a particular Store Spotlight, or your local library club/retail but seriously your spending 6 or 7 pages listing every stockist worldwide? Back in the day before the internet this made sense, this was perhaps the surest way to let folk know where they could by their stuff but if we're going to pay good money we don't need that list or at least not at the expense of quality content - tutorials, rules, reports, painting guides.

If they want to list anything, then just announce the new stores opened and just drop a link to remind folk where they can go online to get a full comprehensive list that'll be able to provide directions to your smart phone. I accept White Dwarf is an advert for GW product and they want to support stores and stockists but I'm not ten years old anymore and going on holiday with my folks and need to find out where the nearest stockist is because there were only about ten!

Have to say I actually think that is quite a good part of WD. Even with easy internet access on my phone, I still finder quicker and simpler to flick to the back of WD to find contact details of a store.