New 6th ed FAQs up!

[Wildcard]

As the title says.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&multiPageMode=true&start=2

EDIT:

After browsing through those faqs that concern me, i must say, that these faqs weren't that much worth hyping.

- Generally they contain same rules, but with "Only usable by Codex: Parent Armys forces", so that no special rules or army unique stuff is carried to the allies..

However, one thing that delighted me was that Combat Squads can now board same transport, given it has enough space!

and

it would seem that combat squads are declared before deployment making it possible to leave other part in reserve while putting other half to the table in beginning of the game.

[eldargal]

Hm Dark Eldar one really doesn't do much apart from confirm that klaives are AP3 and that flickerfields now work on dangerous terrain (which is nly fair as everyoen can take saves against dangerous terrain now. Can't assault out of webway portals so that renders them barely usable.

Eldar FAQ is underwhelming also, it does nothing to address the major problems (like holofields being rendered useless) and realyl only clarified a few minor points. Harlequins can now be shot at from any distance but they have a perpetual 4+ cover save in the open (which improved if they are in cover), which I suppose may be more useful given that you could roll badly on Veil of Tears and get them shot up anyway.

[daboarder]

man these are just sloppy and more of an afterthought than anything, not what I was expecting at all.

No Bonesword AP, DA can share their special rules but the rest of us can't, Dante actually has an AXE!

...And they gave Typhus an Axe......HUH?

EDIT: HAH forgot Dante's axe has its own special rules, gives him +1 Attakc so it has to be Ap3 in accordance with the unique weapons rules...

[eldargal]

Apparently the Necron FAQ is more comprehensive and does rebalance things, there is speculation now we may see hte FAQs updates more over the next month or so. Not holding my breath.

[daboarder]

I'm with you eldargal, there is noticable difference in the levels of deatail the various FAQ's go into, the DA one doesn't even to the "codex XYZ:" changes the rest of them do.

[eldargal]

I recommend anyone unhappy with their races FAQs email GW and POLITELY explain their concerns with the rules and what they would like to see. If they update the FAQs again we may see some improvements. Better than doing nothing and better than whining about how some of how FAQs just clarified things.:)

I'm dissapointed about Mastery 1 for Farseers, but when you think about it GW were in an awkward position. GK pay 50 points to go from Mastery 2 to Mastery 3. Eldar pay twenty points to go from Mastery 1 to Mastery 2. If Farseers started at Mastery 2, we would be paying 20 points to go from Mastery 2 to 3. On top of that we have our (unchanged) runes which let us dramatically increase the chances of other psykers failing to use a power and suffering a perils test. We also have ghosthelm which grants the ONLY save against Perils. Farseers are still good, being mastery 1 is just a bit of a slap in the face.

[daboarder]

oh damn those Warding stones are STILL going to annoy the hell out of anyone trying to use powers.

[eldargal]

Yup.:cool:

[Coyote81]

So with no faq change to eldar/Nid anti-psyker abilities, will someone tell me exactly what does a psychic hood do? I feel like imperial psykers just got a point stick shoved in their psychic arse. Eldar and nids can stop buff abilities, but imperials cannot?

[daboarder]

oh we need a like button on this forum.

Hood give +1 or +2 to DtW rolls, I would have said they are worse now but actually.....most Imperium Psykers are better than everyone else's.


is it just me or are Rune priests still awesome to stop psykers?

[Gir]

man these are just sloppy and more of an afterthought than anything, not what I was expecting at all.

No Bonesword AP, DA can share their special rules but the rest of us can't, Dante actually has an AXE!

...And they gave Typhus an Axe......HUH?

EDIT: HAH forgot Dante's axe has its own special rules, gives him +1 Attakc so it has to be Ap3 in accordance with the unique weapons rules...

Dante's axe doesn't have it's own special rules. It's just a master-crafter power weapon, and Master crafted is a generic rule.

Technically you can model his weapon as a sword so it becomes a sword.

[daboarder]

Dante's axe doesn't have it's own special rules. It's just a master-crafter power weapon, and Master crafted is a generic rule.

Technically you can model his weapon as a sword so it becomes a sword.
Edit: NEVERMIND my mistake I'll go back to crying in the corner with the eldar players

[gcsmith]

Faq was interesting, My tau come out of retirement, my BT go back.

Seriously, remove BT prefered enemy. Just give us rage... well done.

We don't even get the zealot rule.

[eldargal]

I was wrong about Veil of Tears, it now the best thing ever, gives Stealth and Shrouded AND spotting range. So my Harlequins can charge your overwatching squad out in the open ad get a 4+ cover save and if you roll poorly you may not even see them coming.

[daboarder]

Can you believe that their response to Lashwhip vs Banshee vs Halberd was "4+", every fight sub-phase.......

[dwez]

New FAQs are up: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440134a&categoryId=1000018&section=&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&start=2&multiPageMode=true

Just saw this:
Tyranid FAQ
Q: Are Tyranid units inside buildings (ie the Bastion) subject to instinctive behaviour tests? Further, are they able to manual fire emplaced weapons? (p33)

A: No to both questions

So my hope was that the purchasing of Aegis Defence Lines, Bastions and fortifications etc would herald a new renaissance in folk creating their own xenos equivalents to get the benefits but by doing it old school hobby style on the cheap and with some exciting creativity. Obviously a Tyranid Bastion equivalent in my case mighty be a nice challenge. But apparently the FAQ implies that only Imperial folk can use the weapons emplaced within - BOO! I was looking forward to using spare deathspitters and Tyrannofex weapons to represent the weapons attached within. But if the nids can't use them that sucks.

[gcsmith]

New FAQs are up: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440134a&categoryId=1000018&section=&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&start=2&multiPageMode=true

Just saw this:
Tyranid FAQ
Q: Are Tyranid units inside buildings (ie the Bastion) subject to instinctive behaviour tests? Further, are they able to manual fire emplaced weapons? (p33)

A: No to both questions

So my hope was that the purchasing of Aegis Defence Lines, Bastions and fortifications etc would herald a new renaissance in folk creating their own xenos equivalents to get the benefits but by doing it old school hobby style on the cheap and with some exciting creativity. Obviously a Tyranid Bastion equivalent in my case mighty be a nice challenge. But apparently the FAQ implies that only Imperial folk can use the weapons emplaced within - BOO! I was looking forward to using spare deathspitters and Tyrannofex weapons to represent the weapons attached within. But if the nids can't use them that sucks.

strange to FAQ that, since nothing says only imperial can use them. and no rule saying Tyranids can't apart from a stupid FAQ

[dwez]

strange to FAQ that, since nothing says only imperial can use them. and no rule saying Tyranids can't apart from a stupid FAQ

Well the precedent was set with Nid Indpendent Characters not joining a unit in a Spore Pod. Singling 'nids out is fun because they're overpowered anyway ;)

Damn, just read that all reserves, infiltrators and outflankers cannot charge on the turn they arrive. That's my Adrenal Stealers and Broodlords ruined, Striking Scorpions too. Have to check if that means they can't assault too or whether 'charge' is some specific phrase about movement distance. Everything's ruined, still the collectors edition is nice and I like the way the pages all have greasy thumb prints top and bottom, it'll no doubt hide the actual thumb prints my son puts on it before I ebay it ha, ha!

[gcsmith]

Well the precedent was set with Nid Indpendent Characters not joining a unit in a Spore Pod. Singling 'nids out is fun because they're overpowered anyway ;)

Damn, just read that all reserves, infiltrators and outflankers cannot charge on the turn they arrive. That's my Adrenal Stealers and Broodlords ruined, Striking Scorpions too. Have to check if that means they can't assault too or whether 'charge' is some specific phrase about movement distance. Everything's ruined, still the collectors edition is nice and I like the way the pages all have greasy thumb prints top and bottom, it'll no doubt hide the actual thumb prints my son puts on it before I ebay it ha, ha!

When a large amount of Tyranid creatures just got boosted, I find it hard to say they are rubbish.

They shifted the meta away from reserve to win. Lore wise, tyranids do not care about using enemy systems so it makes sense lore wise. But not rules wise.

Also not all Drop pods should work the same, Tyranids are by no means a terrible army.

[Tynskel]

Hmmmm... I didn't see 'skyfire' for the skyray, you know, the AA tank that the Tau have...

[Ghoulio]

When a large amount of Tyranid creatures just got boosted, I find it hard to say they are rubbish.

I dont understand this comment. What are the large amount of buffs? Tyranids can't use the new fortifications, can't use allies, new wound allocation system greatly hurts horde "cc" armies, have no AA weapons at all, can't assault on outlfanks (this is universal, obviously but still very much effects how I play this army), now have to endure Overwatch in addition to going last in CC when assaulting into cover, the nerf to fleet which sees all armies gain the same threat range for CC, etc. It's like GW put in all these cool new features into 40k then looked at Nids and said "NOT you Tyranids, you go sit in that corner and think about what you have done".

The only decent things I see are leaving their Psychic Defense as is, huge boost to flying MCs and Broodlords being able to switch out their garbage powers for two from the deck (which is VERY cool). Also, I am interested to see how Zoans do being used in a support roll as they can switch out their powers for the decks also (dont have to cast the same thing).

In regards to the FAQs to say I am underwhelmed is an understatement. They just have a bunch of generic "Pink 6th ed Speak" at the start and then just the old, 5th ed ones. The only one that is even remotely decent is for the book that was basically written for 6th ed and that is the Necrons. Addresses all their funky rule issues, addresses all their weapons and what AP they should be, etc. which is great.

[Learn2Eel]

There was one big change I noticed, in particular regards to biker characters and Typhus. It's popped up that bracketed toughness values; i.e. Typhus is Toughness 4 (5), are all that matters now. Yes. It says you completely ignore the non-bracketed Toughness value. Anyone just realize what this means? No more instant-deathing Typhus with a power fist (unless you are S10)! And Nurgle Biker Lords can't be subject to instant-death except by a force weapon or other 'regardless of toughness' type weapon. Typhus counts solely as Toughness 5 for all intents and purposes, and the Nurgle Biker Chaos Lord counts as Toughness 6 for all intents and purposes!

That is awesome! You need a power fist to ignore my Haemonculi's Feel No Pain now :D

The Mark of Nurgle no longer has a big draw-back to it for characters! Hooray for Typhus - who given the new general force weapon rules is now a boss, he might count as having a force axe which sucks that he goes last but at least he gets re-rolls to wound against Toughness 5 and lower and wounds Toughness 4 on a 2+ at AP2 :D On the new Force Weapon rules, it is for every unsaved wound now for ALL force weapons that instant death applies, not just you pick a model like old codexes did.

As if Typhus needed to get any better at demolishing monstrous creatures/Carnifex broods........

Oh and by the way, the Defiler has 4 HP!

[gcsmith]

I dont understand this comment. What are the large amount of buffs? Tyranids can't use the new fortifications, can't use allies, new wound allocation system greatly hurts horde "cc" armies, have no AA weapons at all, can't assault on outlfanks (this is universal, obviously but still very much effects how I play this army), now have to endure Overwatch in addition to going last in CC when assaulting into cover, the nerf to fleet which sees all armies gain the same threat range for CC, etc. It's like GW put in all these cool new features into 40k then looked at Nids and said "NOT you Tyranids, you go sit in that corner and think about what you have done".

The only decent things I see are leaving their Psychic Defense as is, huge boost to flying MCs and Broodlords being able to switch out their garbage powers for two from the deck (which is VERY cool). Also, I am interested to see how Zoans do being used in a support roll as they can switch out their powers for the decks also (dont have to cast the same thing).

In regards to the FAQs to say I am underwhelmed is an understatement. They just have a bunch of generic "Pink 6th ed Speak" at the start and then just the old, 5th ed ones. The only one that is even remotely decent is for the book that was basically written for 6th ed and that is the Necrons. Addresses all their funky rule issues, addresses all their weapons and what AP they should be, etc. which is great.

Monstrous creatures better, access to new powers. You can enter fortifications, and you get AA, in the form of flying monsters

[Ferro]

The only decent things I see are leaving their Psychic Defense as is, huge boost to flying MCs and Broodlords being able to switch out their garbage powers for two from the deck (which is VERY cool).

Please note that a Broodlord has BS 0, so can't use any shooting powers. Which is most of them.

[Ghoulio]

Monstrous creatures better

How? I have asked this a bunch of times and I still dont see it. They get to swap half they attacks for improved strength and re-roll armor pen...but lose 2d6 armor pen, so that in my mind is either a slight nerf (depending on the strength of the MC) or about the same. How else have they been improved?

Also, how are access to the new powers (which I mentioned, and which everyone gets) and using incredibly expensive flying MCs as AA "a large amount of Tyranid creatures just got boosted"?

[eldargal]

They get a whole load of new special rules.

[gcsmith]

How? I have asked this a bunch of times and I still dont see it. They get to swap half they attacks for improved strength and re-roll armor pen...but lose 2d6 armor pen, so that in my mind is either a slight nerf (depending on the strength of the MC) or about the same. How else have they been improved?

Also, how are access to the new powers (which I mentioned, and which everyone gets) and using incredibly expensive flying MCs as AA "a large amount of Tyranid creatures just got boosted"?

Anyone who thinks Tyranids suck in new rules hasn't got a clue, for one thing the charge range of hormies went up on average, 12" move and average 7 charge. With a reroll from fleet, they get in faster.

Note even with no run and charge, they can run in the earlier turns getting up to 18" movement in one turn, not up to 12".

Biomancy is an insanse pyschic set, and you can easily shoot down enemy fliers, while your monstrous fliers are harder to kill.

I feel no pity for Tyranids, plenty for BT who lost their preferred enemy, all they get is rage. The BT FAQ was underwheling to say the least. Love Tau in the edition, even with no AA.

[Ghoulio]

Er...how can Hormagaunts move 12" in the movement phase? I thought infantry (which they are since they haven't been beasts since 4th edition) only move 6". In fact I would wager that Hormagaunts have a lower charge range (on average) as they used to be able to move 6", rolled 3d6 and chose the highest for fleet, then assaulted 6, so normally at least 16" threat range. Now its closer to 13" range (as the average of 2d6 is 7 plus the 6" move). Nothing in the Tyranid book got a higher threat range for CC, not even beasts (stayed the same at 24").

How can we easily shoot down enemy flyers when every gun in the army needs a "6" to hit? I also mentioned that the Flying MCs was a huge buff, which I am looking forward to trying out.

Keep in mind even though I may be pointing out some of the flaws with the Nids in the current range I am not saying they will be 100% useless. I am just commenting on your blanket statement about how everything for them was buffed and I am just trying to show you the opposite is true (they feel more forgotten I think rather then buffed). They are the only army in the game that misses out on most of this editions cooler rules which is my point and I do think they will have a much harder time then most armies being competitive just based on how the new rules are set up. I am not saying other armies haven't felt the sting of the nerf bat (like black templars).

@ Eldargirl: I know they got a whole load of special rules, that is what everyone keeps saying lol. Nobody can pin point what those bonus' are though so I have a hard time seeing how they improved.

[ksoh75]

Was kinda hopoing for some better news for the Tau......and again.....disappointment.....


c'mon new codex.......

I would prefer to play pure Tau games.....when and "IF" I ever get back into 40k.....and right now....it's doubtful

[Tynskel]

How? I have asked this a bunch of times and I still dont see it. They get to swap half they attacks for improved strength and re-roll armor pen...but lose 2d6 armor pen, so that in my mind is either a slight nerf (depending on the strength of the MC) or about the same. How else have they been improved?

Also, how are access to the new powers (which I mentioned, and which everyone gets) and using incredibly expensive flying MCs as AA "a large amount of Tyranid creatures just got boosted"?

Harpies were never expensive. They went from being an overlooked creature to the spotlight.
Hive Tyrants went from nearly unstoppable to unstoppable with wings... (or unstoppable with 2+ armor). Not to mention Look out, Sir! Arrgh!


I believe it is time to start busting out the Land Speeder Tempest and Whirlwind Hyperios conversions.

[Wildcard]

Probably the most biggest nerf took the Grey Knights (not saying they possibly didn't need it, but general effectiveness dropped)

- Forceweaps from ap2 -> ap3

- Still no explanation why pair of falchions is only 1 closecombat weapon (january leaked set had assault weapons work as second ccw on the first turn of combat, but nothing like that in errata or rulebook)

- No units with skyfire, and only stormravens to fight aerial combats (and they do have more important tasks - like working as an assault transport)

- Shooting wise: Bolters took a big leap in efficiency when compared to stormbolters, not a nerf exaclty in stormbolters part, yet reduced its cutting edge in contrast to bolters..

- Dreadknight lost the 2d6 pen to vehicles, with such a big target, and few attacks, it truly weights less on the scale when compared to less-than-half-the-points dreadnoughts.. Sv2+ and character status will make up a bit for that, yet it still remains questionable..

- Lots of new special rules (or atleast ones that i am not familiar with from the 5th ed.) that GK can't use. I know that this goes for all the current armies, yet, GK being so new, i have no expectations to see new release for a while..

- Psykers being fortified en masse! GK hardly benefits from the new general psychic skills. They already got lots of formidable skills that they can tailor for use, but to take a psyker means less captains / grand masters, Brotherhood Champions etc really important HQ options.

- Nor 6th or its 1st round of FAQs did change the fact that name HQs (other than draigo on paladin heavy, and crowe on purifier heavy lists) are worth taking.. And its shame, there are many HQs that would seem to be cool, yet first round DSing mordrak, or captain friendly fire etc. just aren't cutting it..

These come in mind of the first glance of the book and FAQ. Time will tell if i am completely of the track, or is there even more stuff to be noted.

[Kawauso]

Speaking of the Whirlwind Hyperios...

Where is Skyfire?

Nobody seems to have it except the IG Hydra.

The Tau Skyray didn't get it...and it's an AA platform. It even has 'sky' in its name.
SM Whirlwinds don't have any AA option.
TL Autocannon dreads?
Land Speeders?
Necron Annihilation Barges? (Not a given, but they seem so much like an AA platform to me...and they shoot lightning)

Still no clarification on which missile launchers can use flakk missiles - I'm guessing anything that says it's a generic 'missile launcher'?

Mind, I don't have my rulebook yet, so I'm going into this somewhat blind. Anyone care to mention whether Skyfire has a negative impact on shots against non-flyers? I've heard that here and there but nothing concrete.
And do flyers get skyfire when in zoom mode against other flyers - or something like that?

It just seems really bizarre to me that flyers are now a real part of the game, and seem powerful...and virtually nobody has any real answers to them other than flyers of their own. Which makes army builds pretty restrictive in that regard...and also sucks for any armies yet to actually get flyers.

[Kawauso]

- Still no explanation why pair of falchions is only 1 closecombat weapon (january leaked set had assault weapons work as second ccw on the first turn of combat, but nothing like that in errata or rulebook)



To be fair, the explanation is the same as before: it's a pair of force weapons. That's why you only get +1 attack. They don't have a magic +1-attack-granting-ability. You get it because it is a pair of one-handed force weapons.

[isotope99]

Necrons have done well in general:

AP1 normal initiative warscythes (2 but still before fists)

Wraiths set initiative value overrides bonuses (like GK halberds)

Looking forward to giving my destroyer lords a run out on the table

Excellent portal deployment rules whilst zooming fior night scythes.

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/photopost/data/576/necronfaq.jpg

I too am a littke worried about flyers, 2 things to weatch out for:

Will their movement restrictions be enough to compromise their effectiveness (seems like they'll need to sopend a turn off the board for another run as well as at least first turn in reserves)?

Will the upcoming aeronautica FW expansion (which should cover plenty of fliers and AA) be endorsed for regular games as this could help straight away?

[Tynskel]

whirlwinds are an artillery piece--it would have to be modified to get AA- hence: Hyperios is still an AA tank.
Land Speeder Tempests have AA.

I am miffed about skyray, however, you could always just use IA:3 rules.
There are Tau fliers out there, too.

Why would Twinlinked Autocannon dreads get AA?

[Kawauso]

whirlwinds are an artillery piece--it would have to be modified to get AA- hence: Hyperios is still an AA tank.
Land Speeder Tempests have AA.

I am miffed about skyray, however, you could always just use IA:3 rules.
There are Tau fliers out there, too.

Why would Twinlinked Autocannon dreads get AA?

Okay, but that's all FW stuff. Not that I have a problem with FW stuff generally - it's just really, really annoying to have units you -need- not part of your actual codex.

As for the dread: um...because it's a flak turret on legs? It's a walking Hydra.

[Wildcard]

Anyone care to mention whether Skyfire has a negative impact on shots against non-flyers? I've heard that here and there but nothing concrete.

Unless the weapon have aswell interceptor rule, weapons with skyfire can only fire at snapshots (bs1) at other than flyers ans skimmers (and flying MCs)


To be fair, the explanation is the same as before: it's a pair of force weapons. That's why you only get +1 attack. They don't have a magic +1-attack-granting-ability. You get it because it is a pair of one-handed force weapons.

NFWs were nerfed (not saying a bad thing), so when on 5th ed 50% to 33% rise in attacks were devastating, its proficiency has come down a notch..

Also, every other NFW have some kind of "special rule" on them, those falchions are only ones that doesn't. From the core rules: 2x ccw already gives you +1, but they were, for some reason, ruled as a single ccw. At the januarys leak it was so, that if you had assault weapon and only one CCW, you used the assault weapon as a second ccw on the first round of combat.. Apparently it was dropped..

[Kawauso]

Unless the weapon have aswell interceptor rule, weapons with skyfire can only fire at snapshots (bs1) at other than flyers ans skimmers (and flying MCs)


Well that explains a lot, I suppose. And I guess Hydras are now pretty limited in their role.

Still...there are a load of units which should have the option for a Skyfire shot of some sort, I think...

[tiberius183]

What I'm curious about, though, is since the rules for reserves changed and you can only have up to half your force in reserve at the start of the game, how does this affect drop pod assault if you're a douche running an all-drop pod army? FAQs did not clarify...

[gcsmith]

What I'm curious about, though, is since the rules for reserves changed and you can only have up to half your force in reserve at the start of the game, how does this affect drop pod assault if you're a douche running an all-drop pod army? FAQs did not clarify...

Units IE the drop pod that must be in reserve, do not count towards units IE half your army you can have in reserve.


Say your army has 20 units, 10 of which are drop pods and the other 10 are the units for the drop pods.

The 10 pods must go in reserve and thus do not count. Then half your army, IE 10 units can go into reserve, equaling all your units.

At least thats how I see it.

[Wildcard]

how does this affect drop pod assault if you're a douche running an all-drop pod army? FAQs did not clarify...

Those units that has to start in reserve (and any units they are transporting) do not count towards the limit

So, drop pods, transporting flyers etc..

----

@Eldargal: If you are gathering a FAQ-compilation, would you please include this (worded in a way you find suitable):

- Grey Knight Brotherhood Champion fighting stance Rapier Strike states that the d3 attacks need to be directed at independent character or monstrous creature. Is this the case now that we have characters running around with the capability to challenge Brotherhood Champion?

(Not part of the question - for those of you who don't know, its either rapier strike d3+1from charge to beforementioned, or 1 attack against every unit in B2B. With the challenge, you could be able only to strike one time when challenged by 'mere' character. Even tho IC is subtype of character, i would like to see a written confirmation)

[gcsmith]

Oh and noticed how BT MUST take 2 HQ's now, great we must spend at least 200 points on HQ... nice job GW.

[Tynskel]

didn't always?

[gcsmith]

didn't always?

Nope, Emperors champion counted as the one you needed, now he can't be warlord... Damn looks like BT are hitting the self until new book.

[Tynskel]

haha, very pessimistic viewpoint. My understanding was that Emperor's Champions were never meant to lead a force, and now that's the case.


The only thing that disappoints me is that with all the USRs, I am surprised they were not added to the FAQs, especially in situations where it looked like obvious choices. (ie skyray with AA; Carnifex with Rampage; etc.)

[gcsmith]

What I find as a major insult, BT aren't really treated as a separate army in the BRB, no BT section. SW and BA and DA get theirs. BT are in marines... We have least common with the standard marines, dammit. Looks like I need to launch a crusade at head office. With nearly a legion my black templars should beat a petty chapter defending the walls of Warhammer world.

[Anggul]

Monstrous creatures better
Although they got a lot of new rules, the fact that you can now use krak grenades in close combat against them has counter-acted that against any marine army... which is a lot of them.



Harpies were never expensive. They went from being an overlooked creature to the spotlight.
Hive Tyrants went from nearly unstoppable to unstoppable with wings... (or unstoppable with 2+ armor). Not to mention Look out, Sir! Arrgh!

Harpies were hilariously expensive for a unit which could fire off a couple of shaking shots before being easily shot down due to T5 with 4+ armour. They were pathetic.

Hive Tyrants were easy to kill and extremely over-priced, but the new rules mean paying 60pts for wings is now actually worth it, and the new psychic powers will make them truly feared as the terrifying psykers that they are. It would be nice if they were Mastery level 2 as they really should be, but it's no big deal.

[Bracchus]

Although they got a lot of new rules, the fact that you can now use krak grenades in close combat against them has counter-acted that against any marine army... which is a lot of them.

Hmm so I'm slightly drunk and ****, but here is my thoughts on the matter of grenades in CC. Don't run your MCs in to CC alone with grenade wielding snacks! Have a line of critters infront forcing the marines, or what ever, to strike against the critters. Should work, just a shame it kind of forces the trygon and mawloc to not go on ahead alone and start killing stuff :(

[DrLove42]

I noticed one glaring oversight in the DE FAQ

They all have Acute Senses from the last edition....but it hasn't been changed to Night Vision.

Meaning all DE can re-roll their flank move ons.....just only have 1 unit that can actually outflank...

[gcsmith]

Well grenades strike at I1 in combat, so you should kill plenty off. Also crack grenades give them 1 attack... sure easier to wound, but less hits.

[gcsmith]

I noticed one glaring oversight in the DE FAQ

They all have Acute Senses from the last edition....but it hasn't been changed to Night Vision.

Meaning all DE can re-roll their flank move ons.....just only have 1 unit that can actually outflank...

All battlesuits in a Tau army have accute senses, only stealth have option to outflank.

[Wildcard]

Well grenades strike at I1 in combat, so you should kill plenty off. Also crack grenades give them 1 attack... sure easier to wound, but less hits.


Imo only meltabombs were I1?

[DrLove42]

So its not just an oversight in the DE book...

Also grenades inCC don't bother me. Wraithlords are T8 so most stuff is needing 6's.

But i ahvent read the exacting rule syet anyways..and how much stuff carries melta bombs?

[Archon Charybdis]

I noticed one glaring oversight in the DE FAQ

They all have Acute Senses from the last edition....but it hasn't been changed to Night Vision.

Meaning all DE can re-roll their flank move ons.....just only have 1 unit that can actually outflank...

I'm not sure what codex you're reading, cause my DE all have Night Vision.

[daboarder]

Wraiths set initiative value overrides bonuses (like GK halberds)



Interesting, The Tyranid Lashwhip Vs Halberd Vs Banshee now says that ALL arguments like this result in a 4+ roll to see which rule occurs first.

[Tynskel]

So its not just an oversight in the DE book...

Also grenades inCC don't bother me. Wraithlords are T8 so most stuff is needing 6's.

But i ahvent read the exacting rule syet anyways..and how much stuff carries melta bombs?

soon to be lots of stuff!

[kappa1az]

Does spirit stones make farseers mastery lvl 2 or can they just use 2 warp charge 1 spell? Nothing in FAQ...also the BA storm raven got FAQ, would the grey knights use the same rules....

Tim

[daboarder]

Anyone who thinks Tyranids suck in new rules hasn't got a clue, for one thing the charge range of hormies went up on average, 12" move and average 7 charge. With a reroll from fleet, they get in faster.

Note even with no run and charge, they can run in the earlier turns getting up to 18" movement in one turn, not up to 12".


uhm........thats not right, Hormagaunts are INFANTRY, where are you getting the 12' move from?

They are slower now, they can no longer charge after running and therefore their average charge now is their MINIMUM charge in 5th

[gcsmith]

Sorry, incorrectly believed them to be beasts, like they used to be. And how they probably should be.

[Caldera02]

Interesting, The Tyranid Lashwhip Vs Halberd Vs Banshee now says that ALL arguments like this result in a 4+ roll to see which rule occurs first.

Actually, on page 2 it spells this operation out. Multipliers first, then add/subtractions, then set values. So Halbreds would go +2 and then set value of init 1 from the whips. Since banshee masks and whips are both set values, that why the FAQ specifys to roll off on it.

Also, the DE book is Night Vision not Acute Senses.

Hormaguants do get 3d6 pick the highest and a re-roll for runs.

[Ferro]

Hormaguants do get 3d6 pick the highest and a re-roll for runs.
Hi Chris. Unfortunately, we can no longer charge after running. It's one or the other (or have I totally got that wrong?).
Isn't normal running, in general, 2d6 now? So Hormies roll 3d6 and pick the highest TWO. Right, it's not even in the dang FAQ.
But do they get an extra die for charging too? I haven't read my codex in a year :)

[daboarder]

hahaha take that halberds

running is stil D6

[StMichael]

Black Templars getting rage instead of preferred enemy may have been a step up considering what they did to preferred enemy. It's still worse than 5th, but I think the FAQ helped. I haven't run the math yet on 6th edition rage vs preferred enemy, but I know for certain that a jump chaplain with a squad of assault marines is going to destroy things.

[N.I.B.]

TYRANIDS THERES A LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL

all ur monstrous creatures like carnifex's ect are now OP and in ur faq expect them to have eternal warrior type rule

Seems he was lying.

[daboarder]

dude FEAR IS AWESOME.....unless your fearless.....or ATSKNF....soooooo what does this rule work on again?

[Tynskel]

dude FEAR IS AWESOME.....unless your fearless.....or ATSKNF....soooooo what does this rule work on again?

Everyone else.

[DarkLink]

Tau, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Nobz and several other Ork units, Necrons, IG. That's certainly not an insignificant list.


Tyranids can't use the new fortifications

Yes, they can, I'm pretty sure. They just have to use the automated turrets, but that's only 1 BS point difference most of the time anyways. You're better off than orks.



new wound allocation system greatly hurts horde "cc" armies

No, the new rules are indifferent to hordes. Instead, they severely hurt deathstar units like Paladins. No more will you nidz have to worry about Driago and friends laughing their way through your army. The new rules are a net buff to nidz.



have no AA weapons at all

No one does.



the nerf to fleet which sees all armies gain the same threat range for CC, etc.

Fleet is still faster, though not quite as fast in comparison. But the vehicle rules, which made most other armies much faster than nidz already, are significantly nerfed. Being faster on foot is a much bigger deal than it used to be, and nidz still have that advantage.



It's like GW put in all these cool new features into 40k then looked at Nids and said "NOT you Tyranids, you go sit in that corner and think about what you have done".


Except you're also ignoring all the things that benefit 'nidz. Vehicle spam is done for, which in and of itself is a huge, huge boost to 'nidz. The changes to vehicle damage with hull points and hitting on a 3+ means that 'nidz are much better at killing tanks now. This was one of the nidz greatest weaknesses in 5th, and the single biggest thing that held them back from being competitive. And now it's gone.

No Retreat is also gone. That's huge. Horde units are now significantly better. Elite armies can't just tank a turn of attacks and rely on No Retreat to end combat quickly. Now they have to take a couple extra turns of hits, slowing them down, preventing them from hitting other units, and forcing them to to take more wounds while doing less damage.

Monstrous Creatures have also been buffed. It's easier to get cover saves, even if most cover is a 5+. MCs got a number of neat new rules, far beyond just Fear.



So, sure, not everything was great for nidz. But considering a lot of nerfs that hit other armies, I would call it a net win right now.

[Lerra]

The big changes I noticed:

Tau lose the ability to split fire with Targetting Lock. It's been completely removed.

Black Templars lose Preferred Enemy from AAC and gain Rage instead. BT seem to have taken the largest hit - their Furious Charge terminators no longer strike at I5 on the charge because Furious Charge only adds +1S.

The Necron Command Barge is now a Chariot and ungodly amazing.

The Chaos Daemons Chariot is not a Chariot.

Combat Squads work differently (two combat squads can embark on the same transport)

Flash Gitz ignore cover entirely.

Waaagh didn't get any improvements to make it more workable in 6th. And Ghazghkull's "Prophet of the Waaagh" is kind of useless now. You get an automatic 6" on your run distance, but you can't assault afterwards. Since you can't Waaagh on your first turn, it's pretty much only useful if you're planning a turn 3 assult after you Waaagh on turn 2.

Dark Angel's named Librarian is only psychic mastery 1 (lawl, poor Ezekial).

[DarkLink]

Probably the most biggest nerf took the Grey Knights (not saying they possibly didn't need it, but general effectiveness dropped)


Most biggest? Really?
:p




- Forceweaps from ap2 -> ap3

Honestly, I'm gonna say this isn't actually that big of a deal. I never wanted to get into CC with Terminators anyways. I just storm boltered them. And since transports are nerfed, I don't have to worry as much about Land Raiders delivering them to my doorstep before I have a chance to deal with them.



- No units with skyfire, and only stormravens to fight aerial combats (and they do have more important tasks - like working as an assault transport)

No one really has any skyfire, though. So the fact that GKs have a flyer at all puts them on pretty good footing, better off than some armies.



- Dreadknight lost the 2d6 pen to vehicles, with such a big target, and few attacks, it truly weights less on the scale when compared to less-than-half-the-points dreadnoughts.. Sv2+ and character status will make up a bit for that, yet it still remains questionable..

Nope, the Dreadknight got a big boost.

Remember how Dreadknights have Doomfists? And how Doomfists are DCCW? And how DCCW only double the strength of walkers? And thus how Dreadknights are only Str 6?

Not any more. 6th ed changed that. Doomfists are straight double strength. Dreadknights are str 10, and since you still hit on rear armor that means armor penetration basically doesn't matter. And since you now hit all vehicles on at least a 3+, you're much better overall.

Plus there's Fear and all that other stuff MC's get.



- Lots of new special rules (or atleast ones that i am not familiar with from the 5th ed.) that GK can't use. I know that this goes for all the current armies, yet, GK being so new, i have no expectations to see new release for a while..

Lots of new special rules that no one can use. On the other hand, the Strategic warlord traits and a number of aspects of the game promote the use of reserves now, and GKs are one of the best armies in the game at deepstriking/scouting/outflanking all over the place, if you build your list right.



- Psykers being fortified en masse! GK hardly benefits from the new general psychic skills. They already got lots of formidable skills that they can tailor for use, but to take a psyker means less captains / grand masters, Brotherhood Champions etc really important HQ options.

But psychic defenses got a big nerf overall. No more 24" psychic hoods to block half your powers.



- Nor 6th or its 1st round of FAQs did change the fact that name HQs (other than draigo on paladin heavy, and crowe on purifier heavy lists) are worth taking.. And its shame, there are many HQs that would seem to be cool, yet first round DSing mordrak, or captain friendly fire etc. just aren't cutting it..


GKs, of all the armies in the game, have the widest variety of available competitive lists. Coteaz is no longer auto-include because acolyte vehicle spam is now mostly worthless due to the vehicle nerf. Same thing with Crowe and Purifier spam. Driago and friends suffer from the change to wound allocation, big time.

What other cheesy special characters are there in the GK codex? The ugly stuff got a nice little nerf, without being too severe, and a number of less taken units got some nice buffs.

[Tynskel]

I stand by my words: 6th Edition will bring Carnifexes back.

5 re-rolling 3+ to hit attacks vs vehicles at str 10, AP2, I4. Plus a Plasma Cannon.
That's gunna smash vehicles. Oh, and you might get 1 more attack from Rage.

That's pretty much, hands down, automatic dead vehicle to almost every vehicle in the game.

[daboarder]

I stand by my words: 6th Edition will bring Carnifexes back.

5 re-rolling 3+ to hit attacks vs vehicles at str 10, AP2, I4. Plus a Plasma Cannon.
That's gunna smash vehicles. Oh, and you might get 1 more attack from Rage.

That's pretty much, hands down, automatic dead vehicle to almost every vehicle in the game.

Carni's are I3 onthe charge, fc got nerfed

[Mkvenner]

I see the return of foot slogging and mech/slogger hybrid lists. Color me crazy, but I really think Foot Marines with limited transports will be the bee's knees.

[daboarder]

Vehicles are still good almost no brained list choices, the only difference is that now you have to be more careful about when you get out. Vehicles still have the core advantages that made them nasty in 5th. Ie: protection for infantry, firepoints, cost and tankshock.

[Mkvenner]

I have to disagree, hull points make them easy to destroy. Melee can pick up on them easier if they get into range. Not trying to say they are bottom tier, but slogging will not be as painful as it was in 5th.

I would not say they are no-brained choices. If anything they are good at what they do. However, with how capturing and denying objectives have changed in regards to units being inside transports counting and vehicles not being able to deny anything period. Its a different show this edition.

[Kawauso]

Vehicles are still good almost no brained list choices, the only difference is that now you have to be more careful about when you get out. Vehicles still have the core advantages that made them nasty in 5th. Ie: protection for infantry, firepoints, cost and tankshock.

Still waiting on my rulebook, so I have no games under my belt yet, but I'd have to disagree.

You can't score from inside them, most of the time you're firing snapshots out of the firepoints, they're easier to hit in close combat and hull points mean you can attrition them over the course of the game...

I think vehicles have been weakened just enough, but I guess that remains to be seen.

Also, I think Techmarines/priests (and Spyders) have gotten a lot better, with the ability to repair weapons, immobilized results -or- restore hull points. Repairing might actually be worthwhile now.

[DarkLink]

Vehicles are still good almost no brained list choices, the only difference is that now you have to be more careful about when you get out. Vehicles still have the core advantages that made them nasty in 5th. Ie: protection for infantry, firepoints, cost and tankshock.

Vehicles are also absurdly easy to kill. Transports have gotten a ton of nerfs. Vehicles are still useful, but they are absolutely not no-brainers.

[eldargal]

Which is good for reducing IG parking lots and razorback spam, not so good for armies which compltely rely on vehicles, like Dark Eldar and Eldar. For Eldar our main viable build, mech, is gone and footdar has got some buffs but we are still fragile to survive against most newer codices without some armour. It is a real problem, unless holofields andwave serpent energy fields are faqed to actually do something now I'm not sure how Eldar will fare against newer codices.:(

Dark Eldar won't be too badly off really, thanks to flickerfields and the fact they are dirt cheap. Wave Serpents were overpriced before, now they are just not worth taking, even if they can shoot two weapons and move twelve inches.

[Lerra]

Shooting in general has gotten stronger, though, especially high-mobility shooting, due to the new wound allocation mechanics. I have fairly high hopes for both Eldar and Tau in 6th edition. I doubt they'll be top-tier, but I suspect they might do better in 6th than they did late in 5th.

[Mkvenner]

Which is good for reducing IG parking lots and razorback spam, not so good for armies which compltely rely on vehicles, like Dark Eldar and Eldar. For Eldar our main viable build, mech, is gone and footdar has got some buffs but we are still fragile to survive against most newer codices without some armour. It is a real problem, unless holofields andwave serpent energy fields are faqed to actually do something now I'm not sure how Eldar will fare against newer codices.:(

Dark Eldar won't be too badly off really, thanks to flickerfields and the fact they are dirt cheap. Wave Serpents were overpriced before, now they are just not worth taking, even if they can shoot two weapons and move twelve inches.

I think you find Dark Eldar will be really fine. I don't have the book in front of me, but aren't flickerfields no longer required? I thought I read that Raiders get a jink-like save for moving faster? Otherwise I would still take my Nightshields.

[daboarder]

Part of the problem is when Fantasy got 8th they had sweeping changes in their erratta that refreshed all armies and brought them in line with the new edition. For some reasong GW thought this was a bad idea and instead we've been slapped with a multitude of garbage that looks to be written by multiple authors over the course of an evening while on the drink and then essentially been told to deal with the mess. I can just imagine the folks at GW going "what you expected us to actually make sure your army still worked?"

While I like the book and some of the solutions to problems are masterful in their elegance (see wound allocation) for the most part this is feeling more and more like a collection of patches for 5th instead of the new game we we're expecting.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Is it just me who really likes 6th xD? Oh and MKvenner yes Flickerfields aren't "required" on raiders, but on Razorwings/Void ravens it is as the Jink save forces you to fire in snapfire mode next turn (this may or may not be incorrect, just from what i've seen...), where as Flickerfields allows you to fire normally :D. Oh and Haywire = amazing... 3's to hit vehicles (combat and shooting) and 2's to remove hull points, wyches in combat with tanks is horrible.

One question, can you assault from Open-topped vehicles?

[eldargal]

Flickerfields work against CC attacks and dangerous terrain tests so they are still useful for raiders that will be delivering CC units. They will also be obligatory for Flyers as it will still give a 5++ save against skyfire and some skyfire weapons ignore the cover save provided to flyers.:) Dark Eldar are fine really.:)

Eldar, though, aren't going down in power level of anything but scorpions, Banshees and even harlequins are much, much harder to use with the changes to disembarkation and the fact that our vehicles are now much more fragile. Falcons that can move 12" and fire two weapons will be useful, wave serpents not so much. They were alreayd overpriced before and they have just seen a rather impressive nerf on two counts (hull points=much easier to kill, assault troops having to wait a turn to assault after disembarking). Wave Serpents pay for an enery field that used to keep them alive quite well, now it doesn't, so they are at least 40 points overpriced. I'd rather have a raider, before I wished my DE could have a wave serpent.:rolleyes:

[DarkLink]

For Eldar our main viable build, mech, is gone and footdar has got some buffs but we are still fragile to survive against most newer codices without some armour. It is a real problem, unless holofields andwave serpent energy fields are faqed to actually do something now I'm not sure how Eldar will fare against newer codices.:(

Eldar just need a new codex. There's only so much you can do with a book several editions old.

[eldargal]

Agreed, and as it is only 12 months away I'm not worried at all. I just think we could see a better band-aid applied through FAQs than we have so far. Give holofields a chance to ignore a glancing hit for purposes of hull points (just for example) and give Wave Serpents the assault vehicle rule and the problem is solved. There is no way yo ucan argue a WS with assault ramp woulc be OP anymore, with the nerf to energy fields.

[Mr Mystery]

I stand by my words: 6th Edition will bring Carnifexes back.

5 re-rolling 3+ to hit attacks vs vehicles at str 10, AP2, I4. Plus a Plasma Cannon.
That's gunna smash vehicles. Oh, and you might get 1 more attack from Rage.

That's pretty much, hands down, automatic dead vehicle to almost every vehicle in the game.

Also, Pp 42.....when using 'Smash' you get to re-roll armour penetration rolls...........

[pgarfunkle]

Hi Corvus, I'm up to the challenges rules but so far I like the new rules. The only thing I'm not keen on as a BA player is Dante being reduced to attacking at I1. However saying that so far I think we may have got a bit of a boost so can't complain. Need to read through the vehicle rules though still to see how the new rules affect our fast rhinos

[Mr Mystery]

Hi Corvus, I'm up to the challenges rules but so far I like the new rules. The only thing I'm not keen on as a BA player is Dante being reduced to attacking at I1. However saying that so far I think we may have got a bit of a boost so can't complain. Need to read through the vehicle rules though still to see how the new rules affect our fast rhinos

Only if your opponent insists. Now whilst this would have to be applied army wide, rather than cherry picked, I don't see many opponents objecting to all power weapons (fists and other better described aside) being the standard profile.

Anyway, isn't Dante's a Blade Encarmine?

[daboarder]

I can add further evidence in support of AP3..


If the models wargear says it has a power weapon that has NO FURTHER special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has...

Emphasis mine, regardless of how you determine the model the governing premise is that the Ace Mortalis is a power weapon WITH further special rules therefore it falls under the generic AP3 rule.

so the steps are:

1) is it a power weapon :yes
2) does it have further special rules: yes

therefore it must be AP3

[eldargal]

Exactly so. So characters like Fuegan and Lelith for whom their attacks ignore armour saves without power weapons being specified are very lucky.:)

[daboarder]

unless they were unlucky enough to get FAQ'd.

[eldargal]

Yes, which I think some SM characters did? Can't say I'm sorry, very few of the rules really disadvantage Marines any more than they disavantage most xenos armies, in general anything with a 3+ save is much better off under 6th than those without.

[daboarder]

I dunno that LOS rule is brilliant for low toughness low armour save characters, sure they gave it to Paladins (GODS WHY?) but it "does more" for an Autarch or Archon.

[Daemonette666]

I checked the Chaos Marine FAQ, and compared it to the Space Marine and other type Marine FAQ's. Chaos Daemon Princes and Sorceror Lords do not get psychic level 2 as a base, imperium does. Only Ahriman gets level 3, and taking a mark of Tzeentch does not increase your psychic level, nor does taking a familiar.

Marine also get access to 2 extra psychic spell lists. some of the most powerful spells can be found in Divination and Biomancy, yet Tzeentch who used these abilities (as per the Black Library fluff) can not get access to them. This does not seem fair. Tzeentch is the lord of magic, so his followers should have higher magic levels. Tzeentch uses divination and rewards and punishes followers with mutation and the ability to mutate others. Biomancy should be available as well.

Space Marines can auto rally and have have a normal turn after that. They can go to ground, and do not suffer from morale problems like fear. Chaos fearless may be able to avoid morale checks, but they can not go to ground, and can not leave combat if they can not hurt the enemy. Non fearless Chaos may be able to rally if above 25%, or on a double 1 if under, but then can not move or charge in the turn, just shoot, and they still count as having moved. They can only shoot snap shot as well, which is another negative to them. My chaos marines should be able to fire their assault weapons at least at normal BS, as they are designed to be used by models that move and assault.

Imperium - IG and the assorted Marine codexes have access to Adeptus Mechanicus / techpriests, and their servitors. No other codex has access to anything like this. Not even Tau with their Earth Caste, or Eldar with their Bone Singers. Chaos should be able to have Dark Mechanicus Adepts, and Ork Mek Boyz should be able to repair Hull Damage (hull points) on their vehicles.
Imperium therefore have it all their way again.

Chaos has not had any fliers, and trying to get allies that have fliers is a dangerous prospect for my army. IG have the poor Vendetta/Valkyrie designs, and I can not mount my Chaos Marine on board them. Orks, Dark Elves are also constantly looking for treachery from their erstwhile allies, so I have to keep then more than 6" from my own troops or they do nothing that turn.

Most of my vehicles go down like a tonne of bricks, and I dare not use the humble rhino anymore. My last trial game with them ended up with both rhinos glanced to death in the first turn, while in cover. I need a fast skimmer or Flyer/Hover transport, or a drop pod like the Dreadclaw as part of my codex. The last game, my Defiler was destroyed by close combat from a flying monstrous creature who just jumped 12" and assaulted me. with smash and hammer, I did not even get a punch in.

I can see a lot of Chaos Marine Armies using 2 x Daemon Princes a Summoned Greater Daemon + basic troops backed up by a Greater Daemon HQ and Heavy Support choice Daemon Prince with 1 troop choice from the Daemon Allies list. Thes would have to be bolstered by heavy supports, and fast attacks, and Terminators. If you can take a second ally traitor IG using a cheap troop, a basic HQ, a Hydra squadron, and a Vendetta.

I can not see Imperium will still over power most armies taken by Xenos and Traitor/Chaos codex players. I had hoped the 6th edition would have made things easier for the Xenos and Chaos. I used to win a lot more games before, but since the Grey Knights/ space wolves, blood angels from 5th edition, and now their increased ability and technology gap with 6th edition, I can see myself losing more and more. In the last 2 days I have only just tied 2 games through sheer tactical jigerty pokery, and redeployment of my troops when they were out numbered, being shot to pieces, and the enemy were able to use faster redeployment/ deployment techniques to get their forces closer to the objectives than I could.

Some things have improved the game a little, but not enough to make it fairer to the non Imperium forces.

[Wildcard]

Interesting, The Tyranid Lashwhip Vs Halberd Vs Banshee now says that ALL arguments like this result in a 4+ roll to see which rule occurs first.

I just woke up, and apparently my brains had feverishly been processing everything i read yesterday :)

The thought that was first on my mind was tho: Holy Batman! If Unwieldy and quicksilver are both set modifiers with flat set values (last to apply), then it would mean that GK Hammers have 4+ change to either go with I1 or I10 :)

Just a thought, after breakfast i need to look into it better..


Also to those who commented my laments on the NDK:

5th ed:
str6/7 + 2d6, rerolls hit,wound,ap rolls (with sword)

6th:
str10 +1d6, no rerolls to hit, not to wound, and if attacks halved, re-roll only ap

That would be good if all you had to attack were tanks that you hit on a 3+..
but that much points sinked into one unit and fear of the enemy troops is kinda lame..

Although, NDK Being character now means that it can challence those powerweapon / -fist dudes, and no need to fear the unit itself on that turn (or other way around if sergeant chooses to lead from the back)

Terror would also be nice, but since you can't hit better than 3+, its really not that big (although enemy hitting you on a 5+ is still something). And, if most of my fellow gamers here werern't fearless or didn't no kno fear..).. so kinda pointless upgrade :P


Also, if Nemesis doomfists are str10 now, whats the point of hammer anymore.. It got general nerf, if it doesn't cause stunned anymore, NDK already hits at i4, so fists and the like that really threat it will nevertheless strike after it.. And, if you take hammer, you do lose one attack for not having 2xfists..

[Col.Straken]

My only problem with the FAQ's is that Kharn has an Axe, so he now strikes last in a challenge, with 3+/5++ there isn't much chance of him still ring around, unless he is fighting another unwieldy model, and then it will probably just be mutual destruction... So not happy.

[Tynskel]

My only problem with the FAQ's is that Kharn has an Axe, so he now strikes last in a challenge, with 3+/5++ there isn't much chance of him still ring around, unless he is fighting another unwieldy model, and then it will probably just be mutual destruction... So not happy.

Khorne will protect him. Then he will kill.

[Tynskel]

Also, Pp 42.....when using 'Smash' you get to re-roll armour penetration rolls...........

Why would you use smash? The point is that the carni is already str 10 on the charge, and you would lose half of your attacks. Besides, for most vehicles, you wouldn't need the re-roll, because you would have so many hits.

[Tynskel]

I checked the Chaos Marine FAQ, and compared it to the Space Marine and other type Marine FAQ's. Chaos Daemon Princes and Sorceror Lords do not get psychic level 2 as a base, imperium does. Only Ahriman gets level 3, and taking a mark of Tzeentch does not increase your psychic level, nor does taking a familiar.

Marine also get access to 2 extra psychic spell lists. some of the most powerful spells can be found in Divination and Biomancy, yet Tzeentch who used these abilities (as per the Black Library fluff) can not get access to them. This does not seem fair. Tzeentch is the lord of magic, so his followers should have higher magic levels. Tzeentch uses divination and rewards and punishes followers with mutation and the ability to mutate others. Biomancy should be available as well.

Space Marines can auto rally and have have a normal turn after that. They can go to ground, and do not suffer from morale problems like fear. Chaos fearless may be able to avoid morale checks, but they can not go to ground, and can not leave combat if they can not hurt the enemy. Non fearless Chaos may be able to rally if above 25%, or on a double 1 if under, but then can not move or charge in the turn, just shoot, and they still count as having moved. They can only shoot snap shot as well, which is another negative to them. My chaos marines should be able to fire their assault weapons at least at normal BS, as they are designed to be used by models that move and assault.

Imperium - IG and the assorted Marine codexes have access to Adeptus Mechanicus / techpriests, and their servitors. No other codex has access to anything like this. Not even Tau with their Earth Caste, or Eldar with their Bone Singers. Chaos should be able to have Dark Mechanicus Adepts, and Ork Mek Boyz should be able to repair Hull Damage (hull points) on their vehicles.
Imperium therefore have it all their way again.

Chaos has not had any fliers, and trying to get allies that have fliers is a dangerous prospect for my army. IG have the poor Vendetta/Valkyrie designs, and I can not mount my Chaos Marine on board them. Orks, Dark Elves are also constantly looking for treachery from their erstwhile allies, so I have to keep then more than 6" from my own troops or they do nothing that turn.

Most of my vehicles go down like a tonne of bricks, and I dare not use the humble rhino anymore. My last trial game with them ended up with both rhinos glanced to death in the first turn, while in cover. I need a fast skimmer or Flyer/Hover transport, or a drop pod like the Dreadclaw as part of my codex. The last game, my Defiler was destroyed by close combat from a flying monstrous creature who just jumped 12" and assaulted me. with smash and hammer, I did not even get a punch in.

I can see a lot of Chaos Marine Armies using 2 x Daemon Princes a Summoned Greater Daemon + basic troops backed up by a Greater Daemon HQ and Heavy Support choice Daemon Prince with 1 troop choice from the Daemon Allies list. Thes would have to be bolstered by heavy supports, and fast attacks, and Terminators. If you can take a second ally traitor IG using a cheap troop, a basic HQ, a Hydra squadron, and a Vendetta.

I can not see Imperium will still over power most armies taken by Xenos and Traitor/Chaos codex players. I had hoped the 6th edition would have made things easier for the Xenos and Chaos. I used to win a lot more games before, but since the Grey Knights/ space wolves, blood angels from 5th edition, and now their increased ability and technology gap with 6th edition, I can see myself losing more and more. In the last 2 days I have only just tied 2 games through sheer tactical jigerty pokery, and redeployment of my troops when they were out numbered, being shot to pieces, and the enemy were able to use faster redeployment/ deployment techniques to get their forces closer to the objectives than I could.

Some things have improved the game a little, but not enough to make it fairer to the non Imperium forces.

That's what happens when you fall from the Emperor's grace. You get lead by false hopes, and you fear the dark gods.

[Mr Mystery]

Why would you use smash? The point is that the carni is already str 10 on the charge, and you would lose half of your attacks. Besides, for most vehicles, you wouldn't need the re-roll, because you would have so many hits.

Oh the Carnifex won't necessarily use it. But I'd imagine all your other Monstrous Creatures would see it as an excellent trade off. Plus you're assuming you get the charge (Dreadnoughts, other Walkers etc can all jump Mr Fex!)

[Lightcavalier]

I checked the Chaos Marine FAQ, and compared it to the Space Marine and other type Marine FAQ's. Chaos Daemon Princes and Sorceror Lords do not get psychic level 2 as a base, imperium does. Only Ahriman gets level 3, and taking a mark of Tzeentch does not increase your psychic level, nor does taking a familiar.

Marine also get access to 2 extra psychic spell lists. some of the most powerful spells can be found in Divination and Biomancy, yet Tzeentch who used these abilities (as per the Black Library fluff) can not get access to them. This does not seem fair. Tzeentch is the lord of magic, so his followers should have higher magic levels. Tzeentch uses divination and rewards and punishes followers with mutation and the ability to mutate others. Biomancy should be available as well.

Space Marines can auto rally and have have a normal turn after that. They can go to ground, and do not suffer from morale problems like fear. Chaos fearless may be able to avoid morale checks, but they can not go to ground, and can not leave combat if they can not hurt the enemy. Non fearless Chaos may be able to rally if above 25%, or on a double 1 if under, but then can not move or charge in the turn, just shoot, and they still count as having moved. They can only shoot snap shot as well, which is another negative to them. My chaos marines should be able to fire their assault weapons at least at normal BS, as they are designed to be used by models that move and assault.

Imperium - IG and the assorted Marine codexes have access to Adeptus Mechanicus / techpriests, and their servitors. No other codex has access to anything like this. Not even Tau with their Earth Caste, or Eldar with their Bone Singers. Chaos should be able to have Dark Mechanicus Adepts, and Ork Mek Boyz should be able to repair Hull Damage (hull points) on their vehicles.
Imperium therefore have it all their way again.

Chaos has not had any fliers, and trying to get allies that have fliers is a dangerous prospect for my army. IG have the poor Vendetta/Valkyrie designs, and I can not mount my Chaos Marine on board them. Orks, Dark Elves are also constantly looking for treachery from their erstwhile allies, so I have to keep then more than 6" from my own troops or they do nothing that turn.

Most of my vehicles go down like a tonne of bricks, and I dare not use the humble rhino anymore. My last trial game with them ended up with both rhinos glanced to death in the first turn, while in cover. I need a fast skimmer or Flyer/Hover transport, or a drop pod like the Dreadclaw as part of my codex. The last game, my Defiler was destroyed by close combat from a flying monstrous creature who just jumped 12" and assaulted me. with smash and hammer, I did not even get a punch in.

I can see a lot of Chaos Marine Armies using 2 x Daemon Princes a Summoned Greater Daemon + basic troops backed up by a Greater Daemon HQ and Heavy Support choice Daemon Prince with 1 troop choice from the Daemon Allies list. Thes would have to be bolstered by heavy supports, and fast attacks, and Terminators. If you can take a second ally traitor IG using a cheap troop, a basic HQ, a Hydra squadron, and a Vendetta.

I can not see Imperium will still over power most armies taken by Xenos and Traitor/Chaos codex players. I had hoped the 6th edition would have made things easier for the Xenos and Chaos. I used to win a lot more games before, but since the Grey Knights/ space wolves, blood angels from 5th edition, and now their increased ability and technology gap with 6th edition, I can see myself losing more and more. In the last 2 days I have only just tied 2 games through sheer tactical jigerty pokery, and redeployment of my troops when they were out numbered, being shot to pieces, and the enemy were able to use faster redeployment/ deployment techniques to get their forces closer to the objectives than I could.

Some things have improved the game a little, but not enough to make it fairer to the non Imperium forces.

1. Space Marines have always had the advantage in leadership gimmicks over Chaos Marines
2. You are comparing abilities etc between new books (designed for these rules) and books from 4th edition. What is to say that earth cast/bone singers/dark adepts dont appear in the next batch of codexes?
3. I would be fully willing to bet that Chaos will have 3 or 4 lores to itself in its book (just like in fantasy, 1 per chaos god and an undivided one) Thus making up the difference.

[Wildcard]

My only problem with the FAQ's is that Kharn has an Axe, so he now strikes last in a challenge, with 3+/5++ there isn't much chance of him still ring around, unless he is fighting another unwieldy model, and then it will probably just be mutual destruction... So not happy.

Hmm, gorefiend has its own entry. And if it has own entry it says to treat it as ap3 and use the profile on the appropriate codex.

However, the question being: What happens to the weapon type modifiers (in this case, its axe, thus making it unwieldy).

So, special or not, are all weapons still bound by the type they are (sword, axe, staff, spear)?

Or does the rule overwrite that completely?

[Col.Straken]

Hmm, gorefiend has its own entry. And if it has own entry it says to treat it as ap3 and use the profile on the appropriate codex.

However, the question being: What happens to the weapon type modifiers (in this case, its axe, thus making it unwieldy).

So, special or not, are all weapons still bound by the type they are (sword, axe, staff, spear)?

Or does the rule overwrite that completely?


The chaos FAQ states that it is a power axe that gives +d6 armour pen, so it is +1 Str, ap2 and unwieldy.

These also apply to frost weapons

Frost blade is +1 Str, ap3
Frost axe is +2 Str, ap2, unwieldy.




I think the has it's own entry is only for force weapons... Or at the moment, it appears to be only for Grey Knights.

[Lerra]

I play Chaos but I'm not terribly concerned because they're due for a new codex within the next few months. It'll take at least a few months to get used to the new rules and new meta, and I wouldn't know what to buy now anyway. Perfect timing, imo, and having a codex release so close to the edition change is, in itself, a huge advantage. I'm not too worried about Chaos players.

[Tynskel]

so, does this make Vulkan's spear a +3 str AP3/4 relic blade?

If this is the case with Relic Blades, then giving honor guard a Relic 'Maul' is not bad: +2+2 = str8 AP4. maybe AP4, but Str8 at initiative is nice.

[Uncle Nutsy]

well.. i'm torn.

I read the tau faq yesterday and i noticed that they removed our target lock. ummm why? do they have plans to give tau splitfire in the next dex? if so, why remove a great piece of wargear? why not just change the wording from what it is in the dex to read something like "a unit equipped with this wargear benefits from the splitfire USR"?

Suits move exactly like they did in the old dex, even though they have jetpacks. I figured they'd move as quick as jump infantry but no. they have to be restricted to just six inches. And now, depending on how you roll either are faster in the assault phase or slower (which means the risk of being run down in assault is a little greater). They could have easily given jet packs an extra 3 inches in the movement phase.

the new wound allocation and shooting abilities are great (Fire On The Move with Pulse Rifles) and give footslogging firewarriors maximum effectiveness.

[DarkLink]

so, does this make Vulkan's spear a +3 str AP3/4 relic blade?

If this is the case with Relic Blades, then giving honor guard a Relic 'Maul' is not bad: +2+2 = str8 AP4. maybe AP4, but Str8 at initiative is nice.

No. You either use the weapon's unique rules, or you use the generic rules. Why do you think they would stack? Relic blades have their unique rules, +2 str, and thus are ap3 with +2 str. Simple as that, unless the SM FAQ says something different.

[Col.Straken]

so, does this make Vulkan's spear a +3 str AP3/4 relic blade?

If this is the case with Relic Blades, then giving honor guard a Relic 'Maul' is not bad: +2+2 = str8 AP4. maybe AP4, but Str8 at initiative is nice.

Judging from the SW FAQ (which isnt a sure way to understand things), blade refers to sword eg. "frost blade". So it would just be +2 Str, ap3, seeing as a "frost blade" is +1 Str, ap3.

If it had been a relic weapon (like power weapons have been FAQ'd) then you could model it as you like.

[The AKH]

No. You either use the weapon's unique rules, or you use the generic rules. Why do you think they would stack? Relic blades have their unique rules, +2 str, and thus are ap3 with +2 str. Simple as that, unless the SM FAQ says something different.

Except there are modelled instances of relic blades being axes and swords (Both Sevrin Loth's and Marneus Calgar's Honour Guard have 'relic axes' - whereas my scratchbuilt captain and Honour Guard have 'relic swords' or 'relic halberds' even) so, since the FAQ doesn't clarify it, it can be safely assumed that a "relic blade" takes on the base power weapon's stats, with an additional +2 Strength. Which is exactly what the rules say - something along the lines of "a relic blade is a power weapon that grants the wielder an additonal +2 Strength".

I will grant, though, that "relic maul" is pushing the definition a bit.

[Demonus]

Not any more. 6th ed changed that. Doomfists are straight double strength. Dreadknights are str 10, and since you still hit on rear armor that means armor penetration basically doesn't matter. And since you now hit all vehicles on at least a 3+, you're much better overall.

All fine and dandy vs rhinos, but what about when you are trying to blow up a real vehicle like a Monolith or Land Raider? That 10 str +d6 isnt looking so automatic win anymore is it?

[Tynskel]

sorry guys, but the FAQ stats that they use the rules in the 40k rulebook, unless otherwise stated in the FAQ.

Since Vulkan's weapon is a relic blade, and it is a spear it is: +3Str AP4/3.
All a relic blade is a power weapon +2 str. Just as Blade Encarmine are Master Crafted Power Weapons--- are they all AP 3, too? No. If there's an axe on the model, it's an power axe. If it is a club, it's a power maul. If it is a Spear, then it is a Power Spear.

The one thing they did FAQ was that Power Sword is now Power Weapon.

[DarkLink]

Except there are modelled instances of relic blades being axes and swords (Both Sevrin Loth's and Marneus Calgar's Honour Guard have 'relic axes' - whereas my scratchbuilt captain and Honour Guard have 'relic swords' or 'relic halberds' even) so, since the FAQ doesn't clarify it, it can be safely assumed that a "relic blade" takes on the base power weapon's stats, with an additional +2 Strength. Which is exactly what the rules say - something along the lines of "a relic blade is a power weapon that grants the wielder an additonal +2 Strength".

I will grant, though, that "relic maul" is pushing the definition a bit.

No. Read the "Unusual Power Weapons" rule. Relic blades, axes or not, are unusual power weapons. As a result, they are +2str and AP3, and that's it.

[daboarder]

sorry guys, but the FAQ stats that they use the rules in the 40k rulebook, unless otherwise stated in the FAQ.

Since Vulkan's weapon is a relic blade, and it is a spear it is: +3Str AP4/3.
All a relic blade is a power weapon +2 str. Just as Blade Encarmine are Master Crafted Power Weapons--- are they all AP 3, too? No. If there's an axe on the model, it's an power axe. If it is a club, it's a power maul. If it is a Spear, then it is a Power Spear.

The one thing they did FAQ was that Power Sword is now Power Weapon.

Tynskel can you actually read what people post before you argue.

The rule book CLEARLY states that if the "power weapon" has "additional" special rules then it DOES NOT use the profiles listed below, namely Axe, Spear, Sword, therefore you are directed to the "ap3" rules.


If the models wargear says it has a power weapon that has NO FURTHER special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has...

[DarkLink]

Exactly. I've already posted that like a million times. If a power weapon has any additional rules (+2 str), you use only those rules. If it's just a power weapon, with absolutely no additional rules (no +2 str, no nothing at all), then you look on the model and chart.

Relic. Blades. Are. +. 2. Str. AP. 3.
That's it.

[The AKH]

Just went back and checked the exact wording in my copy of Codex: Space Marines... the Relic Blade does not in fact grant +2 Strength, it is "a power weapon that strikes at Strength 6". (It does also say that they are normally two handed swords or axes, but there is precedent for others in the fact that Vulkan's is modelled as a spear.)

Having not been clarified in the FAQ, this fits well with the 'generic power weapon' rules... simply substitute "6" for the "user's strength".

HOWEVER I will also add that my copy of 6th is still in the post, so I can't cross-reference against the "unusual power weapons" rule.

[daboarder]

That quote of mine above is directly form the rulebook.

[DarkLink]

Whether it's "+2 str" or "strikes at str 6" isn't relevant. The fact is, Relic blades have additional special rules, and as per daboarder's quote, that means they're simply str 6 ap 3. The rules are perfectly, 100%, unquestionably clear on this.

[The AKH]

Yeah, you're right. I stand corrected.

Seems like something it would have been worth FAQ'ing, though - the possibilities of having distinct Relic Swords, Relic Axes, Relic Spears etc. would have been neat.

[Col.Straken]

Whether it's "+2 str" or "strikes at str 6" isn't relevant. The fact is, Relic blades have additional special rules, and as per daboarder's quote, that means they're simply str 6 ap 3. The rules are perfectly, 100%, unquestionably clear on this.

The problem is that some FAQ's (SW and CSM) state that weapons with their own rules (frost blade/frost axe, and Gorechild, even Typhus' man reaper) follow the same rules for a power weapon of its type, but with additional bonus's. As I said in my first post, the FAQ's of another race isn't the best answer, but it is something to consider.

[daboarder]

The problem Aries is that some FAQ's (SW and CSM) state that weapons with their own rules (frost blade/frost axe, and Gorechild, even Typhus' man reaper) follow the same rules for a power weapon of its type, but with additional bonus's. As I said in my first post, the FAQ's of another race isn't the best answer, but it is something to consider.

EDIT: As we know from past experience it is plain WRONG to tranfer the rules form one FAQ to another, as such what is stated in the CSM and SW FAQ's is irrelevant. It does add weight to my theory that each FAQ was written by the relative author of the codex, explains why the Chaos and SW FAQ's are similar (Phil Kelly), explains why so much is left out of the Nid FAQ (cruddace has no clue)

Secondly if someone could give me their interpretation of Typhus's FAQ, does he REALLY lose the ability to use Manreaper as a force weapon after using a psychic power? or am I missing something?

[Col.Straken]

Secondly if someone could give me their interpretation of Typhus's FAQ, does he REALLY lose the ability to use Manreaper as a force weapon after using a psychic power? or am I missing something?

Everyone can now use their force weapons if they have enough warp charge to use it. So as long as you save 1 Warp Charge Typhus can use his force weapon.

[daboarder]

yes but typhus has a ccaveat that means he gets to use his force weapon on addition to his powers, but now he's mastery 1 and apparently looses this addition to manreaper.

[Col.Straken]

Looks that way to me

But I don't have my Chaos codex to hand to check if they are just referring to the wording. Will have a proper look sometime in the future.

[daboarder]

but why? thats not even a rules clarrification its a straight up change.....sigh stupid GW.

[Col.Straken]

but why? thats not even a rules clarrification its a straight up change.....sigh stupid GW.

Yep... Totally agree

[Herzlos]

Bonus points to them for making the changes in magenta. I wonder how legible it'll be when I print it out in black and white (laser printer)...

[The AKH]

It won't be - I print my FAQ's out in black and white all the time and tuck them in with my codices. The magenta doesn't make a difference.

The magenta is only really there so you notice right away the changes/questions that are new for that edition of the FAQ. In this case, everything that is a specific clarification for the 6th Edition update.

[Tynskel]

so then, someone clarify: Is the Axe Mortalis a 'power weapon' with extra rules? Are sanguinary guard swords 'power weapons' with extra rules?


The space marine codex FAQ states to use the 40k rules unless stated in the FAQ. So, all of those weapons I have mentioned are power weapons with extra rules. The space marine codex states that relic blades are str 6 power weapons. That's not much of a drift in the rules.

[addamsfamily36]

so then, someone clarify: Is the Axe Mortalis a 'power weapon' with extra rules? Are sanguinary guard swords 'power weapons' with extra rules?


The space marine codex FAQ states to use the 40k rules unless stated in the FAQ. So, all of those weapons I have mentioned are power weapons with extra rules. The space marine codex states that relic blades are str 6 power weapons. That's not much of a drift in the rules.

The only reference that pushes me to think that the axe of mortalis is a power axe and that the blade encarmaines are Power weapons of their type (i.e sword axe etc ) is that lemartes' crozius just became a master crafted power maul from the FAQ.

They should have FAQ'd dante and the sanguinary guard, but i suppose there basis is that dantes axe is an axe its just master crafted. the blade encarmaines are master crafted power weapons, swords being power swords axes being power axes.

[Muninwing]

The only reference that pushes me to think that the axe of mortalis is a power axe and that the blade encarmaines are Power weapons of their type (i.e sword axe etc ) is that lemartes' crozius just became a master crafted power maul from the FAQ.

They should have FAQ'd dante and the sanguinary guard, but i suppose there basis is that dantes axe is an axe its just master crafted. the blade encarmaines are master crafted power weapons, swords being power swords axes being power axes.

all chaplain crozius... crozii... croziuses... that thingy they all carry with the eagle that's a badge of their office are all power mauls.

every chaplain in the game carries two things now: an amulet that gives an invuln save, and a power maul that no longer goes through armor like many people took it for. the addition of "concussive" hardly makes up for the ap4, since it means you'll often have a hard time getting the ability to work against non-vehicles -- either the model will already be dead (t3 instant kill or single-wound model) or it'll have a better save.

it's actually another arguable minor nerf for BT, since they are restricted from librarians and assault armies are better with assault leaders.

[Tynskel]

The only reference that pushes me to think that the axe of mortalis is a power axe and that the blade encarmaines are Power weapons of their type (i.e sword axe etc ) is that lemartes' crozius just became a master crafted power maul from the FAQ.

They should have FAQ'd dante and the sanguinary guard, but i suppose there basis is that dantes axe is an axe its just master crafted. the blade encarmaines are master crafted power weapons, swords being power swords axes being power axes.

However, the FAQ also says use the main rulebook unless otherwise noted in the FAQ. Soooo that's just confusing.

Especially since Blade Encarmines = Relic Blades (or the equivalent, ie, both 2 handers + special rules). Confusing! Both still don't have associated FAQ stating what it is.

[daboarder]

However, the FAQ also says use the main rulebook unless otherwise noted in the FAQ. Soooo that's just confusing.

Especially since Blade Encarmines = Relic Blades (or the equivalent, ie, both 2 handers + special rules). Confusing! Both still don't have associated FAQ stating what it is.


Here is your answer, Dante's weapon was not FAQ'd, It is a "master crafted power weapon", FAQ directs you to follow the rules in the rulebook, rulebook states...


If the models wargear says it has a power weapon that has NO FURTHER special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has...

Ergo Dante's axe is not an axe, it is a unique power weapon like the glaive encarmine and is therefore AP3.

[Tynskel]

that makes thing mighty clear.

Still waiting for my special edition to arrive... soon, I'll be answering these questions...


Too bad. I was looking forward to a Relic Maul. :)