Eldar in 6th

[eldargal]

On the whole I think Eldar have fared quite well with the change ot 6th. Our book is still old and held together with wire and hope but the power level is much the same. I'll largely ignore units that I think are mostly unchanged.

Avatar: Monstrous creatures have been buffed significantly, gaining Fear, Smash, Hammer of Wrath, and a couple of other USRs. Still no Eternal Warrior.

Farseers: Probably the best psykers in the game between being able to potentially have four of the new powers, having the only save against Perils of the warp in the game and being able to make perils against other psykers more likely.

Autarchs: Their reserve ability may have been buffed, not really absorbed this part of the rules properly yet

Phoenix Lords: Still meh in general

Seer Council: Potentially incredibly powerful still, especially on jetbikes, the extra T meaning they go frim being insta-sploded by S6 to S8. Singing Spears are still S9 too so they can mince up tanks good and proper.

Harlequins: If Veil of Tears works against overwatch fire and you roll well could potentially ignore overwatch. Rending is still decent, 5++ save is good but they are still expensive. On the other hand plasma grenades are actually useful not. I am thinking perhaps Harlequins will be worth taking a little more.

Howling Banshees: AP3 nerfs them a tad, but then they never excelled at taking on terminators in my opinion Acrobatic is nerfed a bit as counterattack has to pass a LD test now, but their LD is very high so it is only an extremely minor nerf. Still good Marine hunters if backed by a psyker, still in desperate need of a new codex entry.

Striking Scorpions: 3+ save against overwatch fire very useful, mostly unchanged really. Possibly their higher number of attacks and superior armour save will make them better terminator hunters now that wound allocation nonsense is gone and Banshees can't ignore their armour.

Shining Spears: More survivable thanks to T4 vs instadeath, faster, still overpriced.

Swooping Hawks: Hits vehicles (including flyers) on a 4+ with haywire grenades? Yes, please. These chaps may just be useful now, very high chance of intercepting flyer transports threatening our lines.

Dire Avengers: If Bladestorm can be used during overwatch these chaps will be even better at defending objectives, especially with a shimmershield granting 5++ in CC.

Rangers/Pathfinders. Sniper is more powerful now, their enhanced cover save will be useful, I think they are much more effective now. Pop them in a fortification or ruin and they will get a 2+ save still.

Guardians: Terrible in 5th, terrible in 6th. Overwatch may make them moderately acceptable guarding an objective in cover with a psyker giving them full BS.

Wraithlords: Buffed like all MCs, certainly worth taking.

Falcons: Holofields are useless, much of our weaponry remains unchanged. Falcons are Ok but still not great. MSU not so omnipotent now so less reason to take the expensive falcon transport perhaps? Still just an average choice in my opinoin.

Vypers: Squadrons are no longer such a liability, these things are fast and get a 5+ jink save so I think these may be worthwhile but still inferior to the FW Hornet. Then again cheap vypers with scatter lasers put out a lot of shots for a modest price.

Fire Prisms: Better. The changes to blast means they will hit with their full strength even if the centre hole is off. Two fire prisms can get a S10 AP1 blast on a vehicle up to 60" which has a decent chance of wrecking or exploding it.

Nightspinners: Lots of indirect S5 fire that has a chance to kill units that move? Yep, still great.

From FW:

Nightwing, now a legal codex choice, is fantastic. Has Titan holofields granting it a 4++ save against all attacks, attacks that hit on 6s anyway except Skyfire. Effectively has skyfire itself so makes a good flyer hunter.

Corsairs: Interesting to see if the corsair list can be allid with by a Codex: Eldar army given that technically it isn't in the codex itself. Going to email FW and ask.

That's all I've thought of thus far, please post your own thoughts.

Edit: I forgot Artillery! Artillery has gone from being AV10 and thus terrible to being T7 W2 3+ which makes it actually quite good, considerably more durable. With guess ranges a thing of the past we can now have indirect firing D-cannon batteries that wound on 2+ with AP2 that won't be popped by bolter fire.

[DrLove42]

Shinning Spears have been hit by the change to power weapons as well I think. Not that I ever use one...

Can swooping Hawks assault vehicles? If so, they might be some useful AA in the army

Warp Hunters are still great. (assuming no changes to barrage rules - haven't heard any yet). Can get over the damage done to vehicles by just hiding. And with the loss of AP2 in places, they're still great against Terminators

Hornets are the same. 8 Scatter laser shots can probably take off a hull point or 2 reliably. Only problem is 2 hull points....quite easy to kill

I want to know if the Wratihseer can swap his powers out for the new stuff.

And glad to hear Wraithlords seem better, I've always enjoyed using them. And i'm considering a list that includes 5 right now...

Also if you really want a unit dead, you need 2 Farseers. One with guide and doom, the other with the power that makes you reroll succesful saves. Rerolling to hit, to wound and passed armour saves will kill something dead pretty fast....

[eldargal]

Anyone can assault vehicles, though I just realised you can't assault flyers that zoom at all, but Hawk fluff has them doing just that so hoping for a FAQ! Still useful for splatting flyer transports when they go in hover mode, but if they ren't FAQed to be able to assault flyers then Nightwing will be worth taking over Hawks.:(

[Drakkan Vael]

Phoenix Lords: Still meh in general


You are overlooking the fact that most Energy weapons are now AP 3 or worse, and Phoenix lords have 2+ armor...


Rangers/Pathfinders. Sniper is more powerful now, their enhanced cover save will be useful, I think they are much more effective now. Pop them in a fortification or ruin and they will get a 2+ save still.


Do not forget precision shots in combination with the ds 1 they get if they wound. Sniping Sergeants and special weapons anyone?

[DrLove42]

I think the Nightwing is always going to be worth taking over the Hawks. I'm expecting an FAQ to say they can move less than the other fliers, or something to make them more maneuverable.

[eldargal]

Drakkan Vael, very good point about the saves, I still think they need a ++ and points reduction to make them really worthwhile. Mind you I never take SCs in normal games so it won't impact me much either way.:)

Actually five Swooping Hawks with exarch and intercept will be nearly as much as Nightwing costs, so the Nightwing will win out.

[Gwyidion]

Phoenix Lords: Still meh in general

Seer Council: Potentially incredibly powerful still, especially on jetbikes, the extra T meaning they go frim being insta-sploded by S6 to S8. Singing Spears are still S9 too so they can mince up tanks good and proper.

Edit: I forgot Artillery! Artillery has gone from being AV10 and thus terrible to being T7 W2 3+ which makes it actually quite good, considerably more durable. With guess ranges a thing of the past we can now have indirect firing D-cannon batteries that wound on 2+ with AP2 that won't be popped by bolter fire.

Two things:

First, it appears the psyker powers which target your own units cannot be cancelled. This is a big buff to seer councils, as one of their main problems was that when fortune was cancelled, they folded like wet paper. No longer.

Also. Did not know that about artillery That is awesome. I see 3x D-cannon units in my future.

Also: Wraithguard. Overwatch is a big buff to these guys. Their main problem was being assaulted before getting a good round of shooting off, now, with Foreboding, they can really lay the hurt on anything charging them.

Potential bonus to Maugan Ra: If characters can allocate their wounds, his shooting became really, really, really nasty.

[Autarch]

You are overlooking the fact that most Energy weapons are now AP 3 or worse, and Phoenix lords have 2+ armor...

Interesting point. Might be fun to play around with. I like the universal buff to all SC's. Combine this with the "Look Out Sir!" special rule, and it means SC's are more like their 2nd edition incarnations than ever before (which I like, though I know thats not a universal opinion).

On a seprate note, one of the psychic powers that caught my eye was Invisibility: Unit gains shrouding and stealth, hostiles charged by this unit lose counter attack and fight at WS 1. Made me think of a Farseer baby sitting some Dark Reapers camping in a fortification. Combined with the overwatch rule it could give these guys some of their luster back.

Throw in the new psychic Divination power that gives the unit counter attack and get full BS for overwatch and we're taking some serious steps towards 2nd edition melta-missile overwatch madness.

[Anggul]

Phoenix Lords: Still meh in general
A bit better due to power weapons only being AP3 and now characters can try to make targetted attacks on specific models so you can remove the power fist sergeant about to smash you. Still quite over-priced and scared crapless of TH/SS, but then few things aren't. Need +1 to all of their stats except Strength and Toughness.

Howling Banshees: AP3 nerfs them a tad, but then they never excelled at taking on terminators in my opinion Acrobatic is nerfed a bit as counterattack has to pass a LD test now, but their LD is very high so it is only an extremely minor nerf. Still good Marine hunters if backed by a psyker, still in desperate need of a new codex entry.
Counter-attack has always required a Ld test, but it's only ever been a problem if you roll really poorly. These girls are one of the few units who have taken a pretty big hit with the power weapon nerf, along with Incubi, Sanguinary Guard and Black Templar LC/FC Terminators. I used to use them as a counter-strike when Terminators got too close but I think I'd rather use Harlequins now, or just add more firepower.

Striking Scorpions: 3+ save against overwatch fire very useful, mostly unchanged really. Possibly their higher number of attacks and superior armour save will make them better terminator hunters now that wound allocation nonsense is gone and Banshees can't ignore their armour.
The Scorpions have taken a pretty big hit now that they can no longer Outflank and assault. I don't know what the new rules for Infiltrate are though, so I suppose we'll see.

Shining Spears: More survivable thanks to T4 vs instadeath, faster, still overpriced.
Only have one wound anyway and their lances are now AP3 unless the FAQ says otherwise. Even worse than they used to be.

Swooping Hawks: Hits vehicles (including flyers) on a 4+ with haywire grenades? Yes, please. These chaps may just be useful now, very high chance of intercepting flyer transports threatening our lines.
I had the same thought. The introduction of Flyers should see the Hawks back in business as the airbourne interceptors they should be. I'm really hoping in vain that some day a Codex writer will realise that Hawks should obviously count as having Jetpacks as they have sustained flight.

Dire Avengers: If Bladestorm can be used during overwatch these chaps will be even better at defending objectives, especially with a shimmershield granting 5++ in CC.
The boys in blue are still as great as ever. Overwatch makes them even scarier. I never use Bladestorm anyway as I find it to be a waste of 15pts most of the time, I usually find myself firing for a couple of consecutive turns anyway, but that's just me. If it does work with Overwatch, I shall be tempted.

Rangers/Pathfinders. Sniper is more powerful now, their enhanced cover save will be useful, I think they are much more effective now. Pop them in a fortification or ruin and they will get a 2+ save still.
The new Sniper rules do indeed make them a lot more appealing, they were just useless for anything but camping on objectives before now.

Falcons: Holofields are useless, much of our weaponry remains unchanged. Falcons are Ok but still not great. MSU not so omnipotent now so less reason to take the expensive falcon transport perhaps? Still just an average choice in my opinion.
Being able to fire more weapons on the move has made them a bit better, but I'd still rather have Wave Serpents as they have the Energy Field (I still don't see why they don't put them on all of their tanks, especially Super-Heavies) and the Twin-linked guns.

Hopefully they'll update the Eldar Artillery, as currently they're completely pointless when you could just have a Night Spinner or Warp Hunter which do the same thing but are tougher and are both large blasts instead of small. The D-cannon artillery is technically better against tanks I suppose, but the longer range and greater infantry-wiping ability of the Warp Hunter makes up for that in my opinion, and we have better ways of dealing with vehicles.

[isotope99]

On the phoenix lords:


Asurmen: No major change - still overpriced for his indecisive mix of combat or ranged. Makes a good bodyguard for a farseer but that's a lot of points in one unit.
Jain Zarr: Keep her away from terminators and she'll do well, get her near a terminator and her potential is wasted. Better at emergency tank busting now with greater chance of hitting.
Baharroth: Still struggles with fragility of his hawks. A lot will turn on FAQ and flyers + intercept IMHO.
Karandras: Loss of AP2 on power weapons and look out sir will really help him survive to use his S8 claw. The best combat monster vs terminators. One of the most improved by virtue of being harder to kill.
Fuegan: Also benefits from loss of AP2 power weapons for his enemies while keeping his own and his feel no pain will actually be better if he can take it against all AP. Suffers still with poor combat profile of fire dragons.
Maugan Ra: Same as before, great if you can spare the points but unlikely to be worth it attached to dark reapers.


In summary, I can definitely see Fuegan and Karandras getting more table time now and maybe Baharroth if he can hunt flyers effectively.

[Defenestratus]

Howling Banshees: AP3 nerfs them a tad, but then they never excelled at taking on terminators in my opinion Acrobatic is nerfed a bit as counterattack has to pass a LD test now, but their LD is very high so it is only an extremely minor nerf. Still good Marine hunters if backed by a psyker, still in desperate need of a new codex entry.

Please tell me that I'm not the only one that has seen through the facade of GW's RAI attempt with the power weapons. I've already made a mold of the 2nd ed banshee exarch's power axe and I'm currently waiting on the faq before all of my banshees are fitted with power axes.

Sure they make you go at I1, but banshee masks make you go at I10. (FAQ needed)

Then they add +1S and are Ap2. Suddenly - for just a bit of hobby work, Banshees are possibly the best CC unit in the codex, and maybe the game.


Maugan Ra: Same as before, great if you can spare the points but unlikely to be worth it attached to dark reapers.

Does the Maugetar count as a Axe or Sword?

[keithsilva]

Sure they make you go at I1, but banshee masks make you go at I10. (FAQ needed)

Then they add +1S and are Ap2. Suddenly - for just a bit of hobby work, Banshees are possibly the best CC unit in the codex, and maybe the game.


You sir have made me a happy Eldar player never thought about modeling the girls with axes, ways just going to not use the girls because of the nerf, but if this is true looks like i will be buying some new Banshees and start converting them to have axes:eek:

[Defenestratus]

You sir have made me a happy Eldar player never thought about modeling the girls with axes, ways just going to not use the girls because of the nerf, but if this is true looks like i will be buying some new Banshees and start converting them to have axes:eek:

Like I said - I have to read the rule myself (my book wont get here till monday) but from what I've heard from my friend who is looking at the book now he says just "look at the model, if it has an axe, it has an axe".

Then you'll have to convince people that the banshee mask overrides the I1 of the axe. The only thing that I can argue in this favor is that the banshee masks negated the effects of cover before, so why should it not negate the effects of unwieldy?

If someone wanted to call shenanigans on it (barring any ruling in a FAQ) then I'd just compromise and say that they go at initiative.

In the end, I'd wait until the FAQ's hit before you chop up your girls. Thats what I'm doing.

[keithsilva]

Same here just going to wait until tomorrow until i get the book and the FAQ drops will tomorrow just get here :rolleyes:

It also just "iin the first round of combat" they are I10 so there is also and the argument is which one overrides the other, I would have to says masks override but until we see it IDK.

[Anggul]

Then you'll have to convince people that the banshee mask overrides the I1 of the axe. The only thing that I can argue in this favor is that the banshee masks negated the effects of cover before, so why should it not negate the effects of unwieldy?

Because unwieldy is just the rule which made fists and hammers always strike at I1 but given a name. Nothing could ever, ever, ever change a power fist or thunder hammer always striking at I1 in 5th ed, so unless that changes, they will be I1.

[Defenestratus]

Because unwieldy is just the rule which made fists and hammers always strike at I1 but given a name. Nothing could ever, ever, ever change a power fist or thunder hammer always striking at I1 in 5th ed, so unless that changes, they will be I1.

Things that modified initiative, such as FC never could modify the I1, but the banshee mask rule specifically states that on the charge they go at I10 and negate the initiative effects of cover and grenades.

Doesn't quicksilver make a GK thunderhammer go at I10?

There's a huge grey area. Like I said, wait for the FAQ. If the FAQ doesn't mention it then use the compromise that I suggested.

[Coyote81]

No, quicksilver does not make TH go at I1. Banshee masks override everything that reduces you to I1, but they do not override things that set you at a flat value of I1 like a TH does. Or at least thats the ruling for quicksilver which works just like banshee masks.

[gresha]

Is it just me or is it that Monstrous Creatures only ignore armor saves if they do Smash? I don't see anything under their 1/3 a page section that says otherwise but Smash is 1/2 attacks but you get AP2 (unless you already have AP1). That kinda hurts the Wraithlord since he only has 2 attacks as is.

[deaddice]

Had quick look through the eldar faq

Avatar keeps his 4++ specially mentions his is diff to the BRB

Also the veil of tears of the shadow seer is changed to having shroud and stealth quite the change but did not find this change in the dark eldar FAQ.

[eldargal]

The FAQ actually changes very litttle, it just calrifies wording. The biggest change is to Veil of Tears which basically buffs cover by +3, giving them 4+ in the open from Stealth and Shrouded. Personally I don't think this compensates for the fact they can now be targeted by everything from maximum range.

I'm actually going to write to GW and raise some issues, not that i will do much good. But if no one does so then they won't know so worth a shot.

[deaddice]

I wonder why the FAQ missed singing spears cos now they are much better for stabbing tanks, then your average witchblade, technically the FAQ does not directly define them as being fleshbane and armourbane.

Also i am left to assume Prince Yriels Spear of Twilight is still nasty as hell in close combat, not sure what its AP is in regards to dmg pen rolls on vehicles.

[eldargal]

Harlequins got a huge buff! Changing the Veil of Tears entry as per the Faq we get this:

A Shadowseer is a psyker and always has the Veil of Tears psychic power. The Shadowseer, and all the models in her unit, have hte Stealth and Shrouded special rules.

Any enemy unit wishing to target the Shadowseer or the unit she is with must roll 2D6x2. This is their spotting distance in inches.

If the models are not within spotting range, they may not fire that turn. The Shadowseer and her unit can always be ignored by the enemy for the purposes of determining target priority.
So they get spotting distance AND a perpetual 3+ to their cover save, meaning 4+ even in the open. 4+ save against overwatch shooting, even tempaltes only do D3 hits so their 5++ will help them.

[deaddice]

Hmm wow, i must have misread the FAQ i thought they meant second and third paragraphs.

Given how often you can get night fighting in the new missions i wonder if they stack i think it was FAQ a while ago but its not in the latest one.

[eldargal]

Hmm, model a hekatrix to have a power axe... 4++, gets look out sir aaagh! saves should keep er alive at I1, slaps the lesser races around at S5 AP2, cheaper than an agoniser.

[Autarch]

Wow thats insanity concerning the Harlequins. The more I see of the rules (my book hasn't arrived yet) the more I think mixed mech/foot lists or even just foot lists are becoming increasingly interesting.

[eldargal]

Yep, though our falcons and wave serpents are improved too, being able to move 12" and fire two weapons at full BS.:)

[deaddice]

Any idea how lazer lances work now ?

I was talking with a friend and i was not sure if they are power lances now which means they lose the str 6on the charge ?

But the profile for shooting them is the same

[Defenestratus]

No, quicksilver does not make TH go at I1. Banshee masks override everything that reduces you to I1, but they do not override things that set you at a flat value of I1 like a TH does. Or at least thats the ruling for quicksilver which works just like banshee masks.

Where is this ruling for quicksilver?

I couldn't find it in the GK FAQ and I've been playing against tons of GK players who smack me at S10 I10 with their hammers because of QS.

[EldarVeteran]

Harlequins got a huge buff! Changing the Veil of Tears entry as per the Faq we get this:

So they get spotting distance AND a perpetual 3+ to their cover save, meaning 4+ even in the open. 4+ save against overwatch shooting, even tempaltes only do D3 hits so their 5++ will help them.

Expect to see this FAQ FAQ'd. It makes more sense that they really did mean 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. Why delete "The Shadowseer uses her powers to confuse and terrify her foe"?

[DrLove42]

Mastery 1? Thank GW, you almost made te rules match the fluff....but couldn't have that now could you

Picking up my book tomorrow! looking forward to things.

[DarkLink]

Where is this ruling for quicksilver?

I couldn't find it in the GK FAQ and I've been playing against tons of GK players who smack me at S10 I10 with their hammers because of QS.

They've been cheating you.

See, quicksilver makes you I10. Thunderhammers, however, make you strike at I1. So you end up with a bunch of I10 models striking at I1 due to the Thunderhammer. I don't think anything's changed about this with 6th ed.

[Sckeetch]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but does the fact that the Avatar is now treated as a Daemon with a higher ++ also confer him Eternal Warrior, or is the only other aspect to 'Daemon' that he gets slapped down by GK?
Or am I imagining the Daemon=Eternal Warrior rule....

[Another Random Geek]

Mastery 1? Thank GW, you almost made the rules match the fluff....but couldn't have that now could you

Picking up my book tomorrow! looking forward to things.

Actually, it makes perfect sense if you look at it from the angle of sensible caution rather than raw power or skill. You can think of an Eldar Farseer like a skilled demolition technician, and a Space Marine Librarian like a reckless child with a room full of dynamite. The fact that the kid is blowing stuff up left and right while the technician only uses his explosives cautiously and sparingly doesn't mean that the stupid kid is "better" at handling explosives than the expert, far from it. Like the technician, the Farseer makes fewer booms, but is less likely to blow himself up Looney Toons style or get possessed by Daemons or whatever.

[DarkLink]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but does the fact that the Avatar is now treated as a Daemon with a higher ++ also confer him Eternal Warrior, or is the only other aspect to 'Daemon' that he gets slapped down by GK?
Or am I imagining the Daemon=Eternal Warrior rule....

Imagining. The Daemons codex grants all of its units the Eternal Warrior rule, but that's only within the Daemon codex, and there wasn't even a universal Daemon rule until just now with 6th ed.

[deaddice]

Expect to see this FAQ FAQ'd. It makes more sense that they really did mean 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. Why delete "The Shadowseer uses her powers to confuse and terrify her foe"?

I lol at this line being removed it seems like a very clever use of irony

Lots of people are confused over whether harlequins get shroud, stealth and 2D6 spotting distance or just shroud and stealth alone.

Also i am sure there are some shooty armies which are terrified at harlequins being the former rather than the latter.

[eldargal]

Because it is redundant, as is the reference to warlock powers. I'm not saying they won't change it to paragraphs, but until they do there is no reason to assume this isn't the intended change.

Expect to see this FAQ FAQ'd. It makes more sense that they really did mean 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. Why delete "The Shadowseer uses her powers to confuse and terrify her foe"?

[eldargal]

What do people think of this tactic:

Okay guys,

I don't know if this has been said before, but...

Squadrons calculate speed and who can shoot individually. And since wounds are hit on whoever was closest, does that not mean...

Imagine a Vyper Squad of 3, firing at something. Two of them fire all their weapons, and then the third moves flat out in its shooting phase to block LOS for the other two. It then receives a decent 4+ Jink save, and saves the other two from harm.

Is this doable?
I think it is legal, and makes vyper squadrons quite nifty. Not 100% sure though.

[Anggul]

Mastery 1? Thank GW, you almost made te rules match the fluff....but couldn't have that now could you

Picking up my book tomorrow! looking forward to things.

Everyone needs to stop forgetting that you buy Spirit Stones. If they made Farseers Mastery Level 2 base, you could buy Spirit Stones to become Mastery Level 3. You'd be getting something you didn't pay for. To be honest I think they should have given it to us anyway to counter-balance our over-priced heavy weapons, but oh well we can wait.

[eldargal]

Yup, if Farseers were MAstery 2 they would be on par with GK librarians who are Mastery 2 for nearly htree times the price. Giving them Mastery 3 for 20 points to GKs 50 AND access to ghosthelm and runes means Farseers are getting dangerously OP compared to GK and ridiculously superior to everyone elses psykers. So GW were in a tough spot. I hope and expect Farseers to be bumped up to MAstery 2 in the next codex, or have the option to buy it, with commensurate price increase. Ideally I'd like Warlocks to be ICs again and be Mastery 1.

[Dalleron]

warlocks are characters now, in 6th ed. It's in the back of the book. I don't know if that's good or bad to what you want.

[DrLove42]

They're characters for the purposes of answering challenges and "Watch Out sir" rolls and thats about it.

No mastery level, and no ability to do anything interesting

[Dalleron]

No ability to do anything, but mess up tanks with unFAQ'd singing spear, buff units here and there. I'm just wondering if Eldergal had anything in mind beyond what they can do according to the BRB. They may not be IC's but can benefit from all the character rules.

[Archon Charybdis]

Just to clarify, since some people are talking like Farseers can only be mastery level 1: "In older codexes, Mastery Level may be written out longhand in the form of a special rule that allows the Psyker to use more than one psychic power each turn - the number of powers that can be used per turn is their Mastery Level." A Farseer with Spirit Stones can cast two powers a round, ergo they are mastery level 2.

[WickedGood]

So notice the dark eldar harliquins don't even have a faq entry.

[eldargal]

Yup, and the FAQ entry on Eldrad confirms that. It would have been better to have had it explicitly spelled out in the FAQ just to avoid WAAC ****s trying to argue they only have Mastery 1 but that is why god invented knees to the groin.

Just to clarify, since some people are talking like Farseers can only be mastery level 1: "In older codexes, Mastery Level may be written out longhand in the form of a special rule that allows the Psyker to use more than one psychic power each turn - the number of powers that can be used per turn is their Mastery Level." A Farseer with Spirit Stones can cast two powers a round, ergo they are mastery level 2.

[deaddice]

I know this comes across as bit of a noob question but what is the avatars Armour save in 6th.

I ask since if you read the FAQ in a cut and dry manner it seems ti imply the rewording makes him lose his Armour save altogether and leaving him with a 4++ only ?

Any thoughts ?

[eldargal]

No he gets the 3+ as per teh codex, it is just his daemon rule is buffed to 4++ form the usual 5++. Basically it connects his daemon rule to the official daemon rule. Pity they didn't see fit to give him Eternal Warrior as well, still a huge liability.:(

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I like Singing Spears, they're ace.
Can't wait to get my Eldar mobile.

[deaddice]

I personally always hoped they would do an aspect warrior buff system for the avatar

( yes its a little off topic wish listing)

For example if you have a unit of dire avengers in your army list it gives the avatar eternal warrior etc then you could go nuts and give the avatar a different for each unit of aspect warriors.

Fire Dragons-tank hunter
Scorpians-stealth
etc

It would just be a nice way to link army building with the fluff.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Farseers: Probably the best psykers in the game between being able to potentially have four of the new powers, having the only save against Perils of the warp in the game and being able to make perils against other psykers more likely.
Cannot express my love for Farseers (more specifically Ghost Helms) enough, they're great.

Autarchs: Their reserve ability may have been buffed, not really absorbed this part of the rules properly yet
Yep, all reserves on a 2+

Dire Avengers: If Bladestorm can be used during overwatch these chaps will be even better at defending objectives, especially with a shimmershield granting 5++ in CC.
Yes, it can, it's a shooting attack. I've made a rather nasty combo of psychic powers for this. :p

Guardians: Terrible in 5th, terrible in 6th. Overwatch may make them moderately acceptable guarding an objective in cover with a psyker giving them full BS.
Good for Farseer fodder

Vypers: Squadrons are no longer such a liability, these things are fast and get a 5+ jink save so I think these may be worthwhile but still inferior to the FW Hornet. Then again cheap vypers with scatter lasers put out a lot of shots for a modest price.
2 Hull Points scares me though

Edit: I forgot Artillery! Artillery has gone from being AV10 and thus terrible to being T7 W2 3+ which makes it actually quite good, considerably more durable. With guess ranges a thing of the past we can now have indirect firing D-cannon batteries that wound on 2+ with AP2 that won't be popped by bolter fire.
I'll certainly be including these. :D

My thoughts.

[Surendil]

24" on almost static D-cannons make them still a bit meh to me.
Cheap shadowweaver on the other hand and one auto-glancing vibrocannon per unit (with warlock BS), if they could shoot different places would be something to consideer.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

24" on almost static D-cannons make them still a bit meh to me.
Cheap shadowweaver on the other hand and one auto-glancing vibrocannon per unit (with warlock BS), if they could shoot different places would be something to consideer.

For the boards that I play on, 24" isn't a problem.

[Drakkan Vael]

In regards to the artillery:

Edit: I forgot Artillery! Artillery has gone from being AV10 and thus terrible to being T7 W2 3+ which makes it actually quite good, considerably more durable

"If shooting at an Artillery unit, the Toughness of the guns is always used, wilst at least on gun remains. Any Wounds that are caused are still allocated to the closest model first." BRB p. 46

Simply put: Half the crew just got Toughness 7 as well (just keep half of them in front of the guns).

[Aramel]

Well there is one instance where Guardians could be fairly amazing, but it requires a good number of points and a modicum of luck, so probably not cost effective in many games. The setup would be as follows: 20 guardians, scatter laser, warlock with conceal (if you are particularly risk averse) or enhance (if you want to hop from cover to cover and maximize combat potential), 1 Farseer with fortune and another with 5 powers that you will use to roll on Telepathy.

The idea is that you want to get invisibility so that you can run around with a 2+ re-rollable cover save (stealth and shrouded stack to give you +3). With 5/6 powers chancers are fairly good that you will get it. The major draw back of course is that you have to roll for powers one by one. Since most other Telepathy powers are quite poor in my opinion, best case scenario you get it early and spend the rest in Divination, worst you don't get it at all! Still, 5+ re-rollable bumped up to 4 or 3 in night fighting is pretty good all things considered and you can have fun making your opponent hit himself with the 6th power.

With the new allocation rules you can even put your farseers on bikes and have them eat shots or hide in the throng as you see fit and of course enjoy that 2+ look out sir (you can't join squadrons but I've found nothing to suggest any limitations to an IC on a bike joining infantry) give them spears and they can snipe vehicles at will/contest objectives etc. The rules also specify that effects on a unit with IC's in it persist after they leave just like in 5th. So you will still benefit from fortune that turn and hopefully will be able to run back in the following turn and lay low till you get it back.

In a 2k+ game you can also add Eldrad, roll on Divination and have a good chance of giving your guardians a 4+ invul, counter attack + Overwatch with BS, re roll to hit (yes that means shooting, overwatch & Combat) and force your enemy to re-roll saves. If all goes well, suddenly your invisible WS 3 guardians hit stuff on 3s (so enhance is not that necessary) and will be themselves hit on 5s in combat after a devastating overwatch. Hell, if you have the points throw in an avatar to keep them company why not.

I admit flamers and power weapons will still be a problem unless you get the 4+ invul power, but people are so used to dismissing guardians as worthless that It might just be worth using this tactic just for the "your guardians can do what??!!" reactions those first few games. Obviously, as with all psychic dependent tactics...space wolves are still our bane, all weapons on those damn priests...

[deaddice]

That's why Eldrad is such a powerful asset he can buff any unit to make it strong as.

[eldargal]

So someone on Warseer posted this:

Page 78: 'Transports on flying bases also count the base as an Access Point.'

So what do you think, Wave Serpents unloading Banshees directly below them now? The models won't fit but it would help with cover possibly.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

That could be interesting to try and achieve.

[DrLove42]

I guess its for transport fliers, in a turn they choose to hover in

[eldargal]

That is what I thought too, but those little skimmer bases are still called flyer bases on the GW website.

[Autarch]

Page 78: 'Transports on flying bases also count the base as an Access Point.'

So what do you think, Wave Serpents unloading Banshees directly below them now? The models won't fit but it would help with cover possibly.

I don't know what else you could do. I can't believe the change to assault and disembarkation. My assault themed themed corsair force led by Prince Y'riel is pretty much dead, until we get an assault transport. I really can't believe that rules change. The whole "assault ramp" thing is so frustrating. After millions of years of warfare, the Eldar have yet to develop a transport from which you can assault? That doesn't make any sense for any race in the 40k universe. Not even Orks!

[eldargal]

I'm actually going to write to GW with some rules/FAQ concerns and one of them will be the utter uselessness of the Wave Serpent now. For 100+ points we get three hull points, a useless energy shield, ability to fire two overpriced or average weapons and drop off a unit somewhere it can be shot to peices/assaulted by everything else.:rolleyes: Compare to the raider, three hull points, bright lance thrown in, can be assaulted out of, slightly more fragile, faster with useful upgrades for 60% of the cost.

[DrLove42]

The Serpent is the bottom end of the totem pole for transports

Remeber it gets a 5+ save now! And the energy shield isn't entirely useless....it makes lascannons and railguns and melta guns as good as missile launchers.

I have serious issue with the hull point scale. As it stands a Chimera, a Wave Serpent and a Leman Russ are all as good as each pther. And the Necron ark, is AV11, and more resistant?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Wow. I wish that my transport had a good gun. My Storm Wardens pray for a decent 10 man transport, Rhinos are sh!t.

[eldargal]

Sure the energy field protects against higher strength weapons, but it only takes a bit more S6 fire to strip away hull points now. I actually like the hull point system and think it balances mech nicely, but wave serpents need to energy shield to make the mdurable again otherwise they are obscenely overpriced. They were overpriced before, of course, but more so now.

[DrLove42]

[QUOTE=Tzeentch's I wish that my transport had a good gun. My Storm Wardens pray for a decent 10 man transport, Rhinos are sh!t.[/QUOTE]


Yeah but rhinos are what 35pts? Can get 3 of yours for one of ours.

[Yarlen Fireblade]

Well, Wave serpents got a 5+ jink you can combine. You only need a 25% facing cover to get a save, so can move and use even a vyper squadron for cover, not talking about almost every bit of ruins you can think of...
They´re not good, but a small buff is a small buff. My main concern is I used Serpents as reliable heavy weapon bearers, and they´re also still good at that, but got too fragile for a Take All Comers tourney army featuring your regular SW or GK. I had a chance with the damage result roll. Only chance I would now is with Fortune, but fortuning vehicles is a last resort for me. I usually got better things to doom, fortune or guide...

I prayed for something like the hull point system to get done with invulnerable vehicles through bad luck damage results. But I feel the actual 6th edition hull point ruling it´s very badly thought of, as things like Long Fangs and Psyflemen now auto kill most vehicles on a single barrage. You encourage high strength, high fp antitank damage, but it´s still, as it was in 5th safer to go with cheap mid-strenght mass fire that will auto kill vehicles more surely than lascannons.

Think Wave Serpents are bad? Talk about two-hull-pointed AV 10 vypers and most hurting of all, War Walkers. I just shelved my war walkers for the while and got the Reapers out again.

Also, I think we´ll mostly see two farseer FOCs this early, but still love my Jetbike, laser lance Autarch. I used to have an Autarch Delivery Vehicle (some guardian jetbikes with a warlock). Now Shining Spears do that waaaay better, even if a expensive choice. Skilled Rider gives 3++ on approach and ignores dangerous terrain tests. Autarch detachs when near to fire fusion gun and/or assault in combination with the Spears. Also, a Fast Attack choice due for scoring on some scenarios. Remains to be seen which of them will be picked up for Tourneys.


Also, a primer on Avengers. You can move them to wall around your choice of unit, discharge Bladestorm and STILL snap fire. Bladestorm clearly states no shooting NEXT shooting phase. Nothing about the opponent´s assault phase :D Can of course combo that with the power that lets you snap fire at full BS

Also nobody has mentioned how the Night Spinner went very much down the drain. Even if it´s now strenght 6 all template against vehicles, Dangerous Terrain wounds allow armour save, ruining it for me. It´s not bad, just no longer worth a precious heavy slot on an Eldar Army.

[DarkLink]

Yeah but rhinos are what 35pts? Can get 3 of yours for one of ours.

4, actually. And all you really get is AV12, Skimmer, and a single heavy weapon.

[Aramel]

Having lost a vehicle a turn to long fangs, I definately see how serpents can be a liability. I'll also not be using banshees for a while. However, most games will have night fighting at some point, where all our tanks will get a 4 or 3+ cover save at 12+ range. Played right that can more than make up for our shortcomings. There is also the 30 inch move we can make in the shooting phase with star engines (for a total of 42!) which can be pretty nice.

[JMichael]

Jetbikes gave +1 Toughness in 5th also.
But now Turboboost states you can't perform any voluntary action AFTER you turboboost.
So now that farseer can cast doom, fortune, guide and still turboboost with their jetbike squad!

I am a huge fan of Night Spinners and usually field 2 of them. Although Dangerous terrain tests now get armor saves...The fact that AP '-' is no longer a -1 on the vehicle damage charts makes them more useful for effecting light vehicles (looking at you clusters of Dark Eldar raiders!)

I don't see any real benefit for Star Engines anymore, but Vectored Engines are now finally useful.

Tank Hunters is now much better than in 5th IMO. Now it's a serious exarch power (and +2 on the damage chart for AP1) and makes those Fire Dragons serious tank killers.

I also think the squadron rules will help my War Walkers last longer.
Oh, and snap firing guided Dark Reapers (when they need to move)!!! yes please!

All in all I'm very happy with the new rules and look forward to getting some flyers (still need opponents permission to use FW models).

Oh, and did you notice that the Reference appendix lists the Night Spinner as a Transport?! The FW Night Spinner can hold 6, perhaps a revision of our GW Night Spinner is forthcoming!?

[keithsilva]

All I have to day is Power Axe welding Banshees @ I10 on the first charge and when charged at strength 4. I looked at both the faq, rulebook, and codex nothing says they cant. The wording for Unwelding just says strike at I1 unless u are walker or monstrous ceature.No where does it state they iqnore all modifiers to the Int., I looked and could not find anything anywhere. I even went as fas as looking it up in fifth just for wording and it does state it in there that u iqnore any modifiers never benefiting form them.

The codex just states they have power wepaons thats all, not swords looked in faq about it nothing so unless the faq it I will be buying some more banshees and puting power axes on them:eek:

[Aramel]

Not terribly worth it in my opinion. Yes they will be as good or better in turn one thanks to the +str than before, but afterwards they will die in droves before even hitting. Add to that the fact that you can't assault out of serpents anymore, which means you will be eating a ton of bolter fire before reaching those terminators.

Harlequins with a shadowseer now are pretty amazing. Expensive, but with their +3 to cover save their chances of reaching the enemy in one piece are pretty good and the new divination basic power+doom combo will make them wreck anything in combat.

Oh and the FAQ to lashwips forces banshees to roll off to see which effect governs and Enhance no longer helps...annoying.

[Chronowraith]

Here is why Power Axes at I10 don't work (in my opinion).

Unwieldy - "A model attacking with this weapon does so at initiative 1..."
Banshee Mask - "In the first round of an assault a model wearing a banshee mask has Initiative 10..."

So the Banshee mask makes you Initiative 10 but the unwieldy rule states that the ATTACKS happen at Initiative 1. So you have a model with Initiative 10 that strikes at Initiative 1 due to the wording on the weapon.

This really isn't any different than a power fist on a marine. The marine himself is initiative 4. The fist makes him strike at Initiative 1. Even if you gave the marine a banshee mask the same thing would happen because the power fist's unwieldy rule stats that all strikes with that weapon happen at Initiative 1.

----------

As far as Eldar in 6th... Overall I'm happy. Some units (like banshees) don't work as well as they used to but many others (jetbikes, rangers, warp spiders, etc) all increased in effectiveness. Hell, I'm tempted to take an Avatar now since he just received a sizable boost in power (between the new MC rules and him being a character).

[keithsilva]

But no where does it state they alwais strike and int. and iqnore any and all modifiers to there Int. Banshees are Int. 5 and 6 and on the first around of combat the mask makes them I10.

For exsample look up the rule for powerfist and thunder hammers in 5th edition (i know i know it 6th not 5th)
it clearly states they do not benefit from any modifiers and WILL ALWAYS strike at I1. Now does it say that in the Unwelding special rule no, unless it is somewhere else in the book I cant finf it. All is says is models with unweldy strike at I1 but it does not state they ignore modifiers and always strike at I1.

Basically they would be I5, give them axes they get bump down to I1, but with mask on first round they are bumped to I10, and any other rounds they would fall back to I1. My arguement is it does not say anywhere that the iqnore modifiers to there Int. when having Unwelding weapons.

[Aramel]

Because of the change to combat mechanics, even if they do have I10, banshees with axes will still strike at I1. Unwieldly does not say that the model gets I1, it says the model will strike at the I1 step. I agree this seems idiotic, but that is mainly because the language of our codex is not compatible with the new terminology

[keithsilva]

It's the same with the mask it doesn't say they get i10 they strike at i10 first round if it stated that unwielding never benefits from modifiers I would agree but it doesn't.

[Lemt]

Striking Scorpions, Shining Spears and Swooping Hawks have the Hammer of Wrath special rule, so they've gained an extra attack the turn they charge. At I10 too!
Sure, you don't get Strength bonuses for that attack, but hey.

[Chronowraith]

It's the same with the mask it doesn't say they get i10 they strike at i10 first round if it stated that unwielding never benefits from modifiers I would agree but it doesn't.

Read the rules for the banshee mask again. it states, and I quote directly, "In the first round of an assault a model wearing a banshee mask HAS INITIATIVE 10...". Nowhere does it state the Banshee "strikes" at I10. The rest of the mask description has no bearing on this issue as the power axe is not a grenade nor is it cover.

Unwieldy affects the strikes, the banshee mask affects the initiative of the wielder.

Unwieldy also doesn't need to state that modifiers to initiative don't affect it because unwieldy isn't a modifier to initiative. It simply states that the bearer of said weapon strikes at initiative step 1. The actual initiative of the bearer is superfluous in this case.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah but rhinos are what 35pts? Can get 3 of yours for one of ours.

Yeah, but they blow up like pros.

[JMichael]

Unwieldy affects the strikes, the banshee mask affects the initiative of the wielder.

Unwieldy also doesn't need to state that modifiers to initiative don't affect it because unwieldy isn't a modifier to initiative. It simply states that the bearer of said weapon strikes at initiative step 1. The actual initiative of the bearer is superfluous in this case.

+1 to this

[eldargal]

There is a discussion on the Banshee Mask-Unwiledy thing in the rules section, can we keep it there? Let's keep this thread for tactics rather than rules discussions.:)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Seconded.

Personally, I like Farseers using Divination, so many re-rolls and buffs.
I love Bladestorming as a charge reaction, so much fun. :D

[Drakkan Vael]

Bastion, quad gun, Dark Reaper Exarch with his special skills negating cover saves.
4 Str 7 ap 4 twin-linked shots with no cover save at BS 5 skyfire, interceptor = dead flyers.

[deaddice]

Striking Scorpions, Shining Spears and Swooping Hawks have the Hammer of Wrath special rule, so they've gained an extra attack the turn they charge. At I10 too!
Sure, you don't get Strength bonuses for that attack, but hey.

Color me a tad confused and noob like but how do scorpions benefit from the hammer of wrath special rule ?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Color me a tad confused and noob like but how do scorpions benefit from the hammer of wrath special rule ?

Because of cheating!

He means either Warp Spiders or Shadow Spectres.

[deaddice]

Oh right, still assaulting with hawks and spiders is always a risky venture

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Assaulting with anything seems to be a risky venture in 6th. :p

[DrLove42]

I like Divination as a lore. Used it in a game last night, and really helped. The default "guide" on my rangers helped balence my appaulling luck (20 dice, not 1 4+), and the 4+ invulnerable save came in really handy for my Avengers when they got assaulted.

The re-roll hits, wounds and armour saves seems a bi wasted on eldar farseers, bar getting challenged.

[ljal]

What do you think of using warp hunter (i know HP rules), yest still 2 shots with that is so... overpowered. Using that tank i think forces opponent to concentrate firepower on that so other stuff could be quite safe. What more jink save could be veeeery useful here isnt it?

Wraithseer waht is his mastery level? Funny thing to play now isnt it?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Indeed.
There are some nifty Psychic powers, I wish Eldar could have pyromancy.

[DrLove42]

Wraithseer is still an unknown till FW FAQ stuff. We don't even know if he can swap out powers. But as he can only do 1 a turn, that'd make him mastery 1.

Warp Hunter is only 1 shot....and it can hide behind things to reduce the fragility of the model. Even though i never ever seem to hit with it, i find it tends to make people spread out a bit more, cos those 5" templates are mean.

As for Pyromancy, thats the way the Eldar have always been. We don't really use powers to hurt the enemy, but act as a force multiplier on our end

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I know, I just like setting fools on fire. :p

[Defenestratus]

A couple things that struck me reading through my rulebook.

I don't think serpents are as bad off as people seem to think. The rule that states that they only need to be 25% covered to benefit from cover is huge. I do agree that they are still overcosted but I will still use them. (EG - remember the powerfield also limits hits to only rolling 1 dice for penetration, thats pretty huge too)

No flat out tank shocking or ramming. Boo - no more missiles of Eldar death flying 24" across the table into the side of a vindicator.

Vypers and Walkers... it was nice knowing you. Only 2 hull points each? Vypers I COULD see using since they get a jink but war walkers are dead. I guess I'll just bring mine out for apoc games to knock out void shields.

Mounted Farseers do indeed get to cast powers prior to turbo boosting, but it appears that we lost the additional 3+ save that jetbike riders benefited from. Most of the jetbike units in the codex have a 3+ on their profile but in the case of the mounted seer council, I don't believe that they have that. Only 4+ inv saves for our flying councils.

I haven't touched the psychic power section yet.

Overall I'm less than impressed with the ruleset overall.

[eldargal]

Fair point about the power field.

Vypers could be quite useful wit hthe way hits are allocated now. Move a squadron of three, fire with two, move one flat out in front of the others and let it absord fire with a 4+ jink save. I agree war walkers will require a lot more finesse to use, but really they got popped by bolters easily enough before they are still very much glass cannon.

I'm actually quite impressed with the ruleset, it seems to balance mech/foot/assault/shooting nicely. The problem with Eldar is we have a codex intended for a slightly updated 3rd edition ruleset (4th) in a very different 6th edition game.

[EldarVeteran]

Mounted Farseers do indeed get to cast powers prior to turbo boosting, but it appears that we lost the additional 3+ save that jetbike riders benefited from. Most of the jetbike units in the codex have a 3+ on their profile but in the case of the mounted seer council, I don't believe that they have that. Only 4+ inv saves for our flying councils.
.

Eldar Jetbikes are described as a piece of Wargear on p40. They give a 3+ armour save to rider. New FAQ does not change that.

[DrLove42]

Believe he means no more flat out 3+ cover save against anything AP3 or better

[Yarlen Fireblade]

Fair point about the power field.

Vypers could be quite useful wit hthe way hits are allocated now. Move a squadron of three, fire with two, move one flat out in front of the others and let it absord fire with a 4+ jink save. I agree war walkers will require a lot more finesse to use, but really they got popped by bolters easily enough before they are still very much glass cannon.

I'm actually quite impressed with the ruleset, it seems to balance mech/foot/assault/shooting nicely. The problem with Eldar is we have a codex intended for a slightly updated 3rd edition ruleset (4th) in a very different 6th edition game.

Another couple of games today, another couple of highlights.

For all of us warwalker lovers, there´s a Divination power that grants a 4++ save. Rolled it today and abused it to death on a war walker squadron, greatly boosting their durability. Not much, but as I´ve already decided my farseers are gonna roll divination ´til the end of time, there´re no bad rolls in that discipline for Eldar if you play a balanced force.

We all know and love our crack shot Reaper Exarchs. Love them all the more, because in 6th night fighting is just a cover save/bonus for everything 12 to 36 inches away, and there´s a fair night fighting chance every match. He just ignores all that and also all bike jink saves.

Jetbike squads got a great boost at least as I play them. A 4 man jetbike squad will always have a regroup chance, will never be under 25% except if annihilated. Regrouping one man troop jetbike squads can really save your objective claiming day. Same for a regrouping shining spear exarch.

Also liking the game system as of now, seems solid in everything not involving flyers. Most broken thing I´ve seen is a fully loaded Stormraven, absolutely nothing you can do about if firing and deploying unless you´re really lucky, sport a trio of Hydras or a lot of units in AA nodes. I suppose we will all have some AA defense capability in the near future.

[Yarlen Fireblade]

Believe he means no more flat out 3+ cover save against anything AP3 or better

Well, we now have 4+ cover on flat out or 3+ if a Skilled Rider in the squad.

[Defenestratus]

Eldar Jetbikes are described as a piece of Wargear on p40. They give a 3+ armour save to rider. New FAQ does not change that.

No but the rulebook very well might. It mentions the +1 to T in the "armored steed" part but not anything about a 3+ save. If you're using the Eldar Jetbike rules from the rulebook then I don't think you get a 3+ regular armor save anymore.

[Defenestratus]

Also liking the game system as of now, seems solid in everything not involving flyers. Most broken thing I´ve seen is a fully loaded Stormraven, absolutely nothing you can do about if firing and deploying unless you´re really lucky, sport a trio of Hydras or a lot of units in AA nodes. I suppose we will all have some AA defense capability in the near future.

Give your aforementioned Reaper exarch a EML or a bastion with the quad gun.

[Yarlen Fireblade]

Give your aforementioned Reaper exarch a EML or a bastion with the quad gun.

Thing is, even with the interceptor rule and assuming 4 hits out of the TL BS5, it´s 5 to glance the thing, has three hull points and anything less than destroying it does not prevent the stormraven from moving 36 from reserves, doing the firing of 4 weapons including a close range TL melta practically anywhere it likes and even splitting fire. Next turn, the dread and the boys come out for dinner. You need quite a bit of luck to brng it down, and even if you do, if it´s in hover mode, passengers just take the LD test, slap off dust and assault.

Still, I´m not crying over it, we ALL need a good faq on AA weapons for all armies to include them on our lists, and it probably is on the way. Just putting out what to expect from a StormRaven under the new rules.

[Ruleslawyer]

No but the rulebook very well might. It mentions the +1 to T in the "armored steed" part but not anything about a 3+ save. If you're using the Eldar Jetbike rules from the rulebook then I don't think you get a 3+ regular armor save anymore.

No they still get the regular 3+ save, its written on the second page of the FAQ in Magenta.

Now that Skimmers get a Jink save, can you fortune them now(I dont remember the wording of fortune)?

[Chronowraith]

No but the rulebook very well might. It mentions the +1 to T in the "armored steed" part but not anything about a 3+ save. If you're using the Eldar Jetbike rules from the rulebook then I don't think you get a 3+ regular armor save anymore.

Both the Eldar codex and the Eldar codex FAQ say that Eldar Jetbikes confer a 3+ armor save. FAQ and Codex always supersede the Basic Rules Book.

[Aramel]

Yes you can fortune any "Eldar unit." The big question though, is does it affect both the wave serpent and the unit inside? In 5th everyone I know assumed yes, because troops inside a transport were considered a single unit (see FAQ about Eldrad's Divination counting them as one). In 6th I can find nothing that says otherwise. The closest rule I found is that of effects still being applied to IC after they leave a unit.

On an off note, the new psychic powers can target vehicles (I had great fun taking down necron barges by forcing re-rolls on their 4+ turbo saves). Also, do we all agree that Presience lets you re-roll template wound rolls and scatter dice + distance? I know the rule just says "re-rolls to hit," but the rules for twin linked weapons is pretty clear in including template wounds and scatter dice in the "to hit" rolling category.

[Ruleslawyer]

As a matter of interest how is Yriel affected by the new edition? Whats the AP of the Spear of Twilight. Its not written as a power weapon but a Singing Spear that ignores armour saves.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It doesn't mention in the FAQ, so it wounds on 2s and ignores armour! Huzzah!

[eldargal]

If something is described as ignoring armour saves but is not labelled a power weapon then the new power weapon rules don't apply. Howling Banshee mirror swords also benefit from this.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Which means that Yriel is in fact "God of Challenges".

[DarkLink]

Well, a really good invulnerable save is more important than a good weapon in challenges. Someone with a 2++ can tank Yriel all day long. But, yes, that spear with that initiative is really good against anything like a Marine sergeant with a fist.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Okay then the "God of Small Challenges" :D

I was about to ask "who has a 2++?" then realised....... Grey Knights...

[JMichael]

Yes you can fortune any "Eldar unit." The big question though, is does it affect both the wave serpent and the unit inside? In 5th everyone I know assumed yes, because troops inside a transport were considered a single unit (see FAQ about Eldrad's Divination counting them as one).

Even in 5th Fortune only worked on the Transport and not the unit inside (rulebook stated that they are separate units even for deployment. Divination FAQ just stated the embarked unit does not count towards the Divination total).
So I would assume it's the same in 6th. You can fortune the transport OR if the farseer is embarked he can fortune the unit he's with (or the transport).


Interesting that a Scoring unit inside a transport is no longer scoring.
So much for leaving the 5man Dire Avengers in my Wave Serpent! Guess they now have to get out (and thus a bigger risk).

[JMichael]

If something is described as ignoring armour saves but is not labelled a power weapon then the new power weapon rules don't apply. Howling Banshee mirror swords also benefit from this.

Aw geez!!!! Awesome! And with Yriel and Eldard having 2+ wound weapons that ignore armor saves as well...Looks like I'll be using Yriel more often! And Yriel can through the spear and then assault! Aw snap!


I see a lot of complaining reg War Walkers and the new squadron rules.
I think they are more effective now. Whereas before, there was a greater chance of all 3 being stunned or even wrecked (had to assign one hit to each and Immob=Wrecked), now while that close one might die a little faster the other 2 may get more turns of shooting which imho=more effective.

[Sainhann]

Well Warwalkers could be a bright spot for Eldar.

For 150 points you can get three each with a Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon.

So that would be 7 x str 6 shots (4 at 36" and AP 6 and 3 at 24" and AP 5)

So the total number of shots would be 21 for the Squadron.

Could be useful against Flyers due to the amount of shots.

Plus if charged they have that many shots for Overwatch.

Get a cheap Farseer for Guide and enjoy the rerolling the misses.

You do need cover though because the AV 10 could mean that anything str 4 or higher can hull them.

But that Squadron is only 150 points, which is very cheap for something with that much firepower.

[Surendil]

Well Warwalkers could be a bright spot for Eldar.

For 150 points you can get three each with a Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon.

So that would be 7 x str 6 shots (4 at 36" and AP 6 and 3 at 24" and AP 5)

So the total number of shots would be 21 for the Squadron.

Could be useful against Flyers due to the amount of shots.

Plus if charged they have that many shots for Overwatch.

Get a cheap Farseer for Guide and enjoy the rerolling the misses.

You do need cover though because the AV 10 could mean that anything str 4 or higher can hull them.

But that Squadron is only 150 points, which is very cheap for something with that much firepower.

A cheap farser is more than 70 points, and you better add a ablative armor unit with him.

Against flyers or as overwatch, it averages less than 4 hits. With AV12 flyers around, praying for a 6 to take out a HP isn't what I'd call a sound plan. If they're getting assaulted, that <4 hits would mean 1 dead marine. And once they're in combat with str 6 grenades/fisted sgt you've almost lost the unit.

And this, being the same points as a devastator unit with missiles... we have a nice model to stay in the shelves.

[gcsmith]

Or you know, you can stop comparing to another unit that doesn't fulfill the same purposes.

[eldargal]

I've now sent emails to both GW and Forge World with all my concerns about Eldar (and to a much lesser extent, Dark Eldar). The email for GW is:

[email protected]

The FW email is their regular email you can find on their website.

[Tynskel]

Okay then the "God of Small Challenges" :D

I was about to ask "who has a 2++?" then realised....... Grey Knights...

Corbulo has a 2+ feel no pain.

[Sainhann]

A cheap farser is more than 70 points, and you better add a ablative armor unit with him.

Against flyers or as overwatch, it averages less than 4 hits. With AV12 flyers around, praying for a 6 to take out a HP isn't what I'd call a sound plan. If they're getting assaulted, that <4 hits would mean 1 dead marine. And once they're in combat with str 6 grenades/fisted sgt you've almost lost the unit.

And this, being the same points as a devastator unit with missiles... we have a nice model to stay in the shelves.

So what 4 Missile shots compared to 21 shots. Sure the Missiles are str 8 and have a chance at popping a Flyer's armor.

But I would rather have the additional firepower.

Yes a Farseer just with guide would be 75 points but that is not really needed for this unit to work.

Give me another unit at costs 150 points that can put out 21 str 6 shots.

Yes this unit does have weaknesses but if you are fielding a 2000 point force this unit is only taking 150 points and can pay for itself. Plus you would still have 1850 points for other things.

I will think that many Eldar players will be fielding at each one of these with probably the same weapons. Because of the firepower it can dish out.

Just think for just 450 points you can get three of these units.

[Chronowraith]

I agree with Sainhann. War Walkers, even at 2HP, are great buys unless you load them down with brightlances and starcannons. Stick to EML, Scatter Lasers, or Shuriken Cannons and they are fantastic. People decrying how easy it is to kill War Walkers in 6th obviously didn't play with them in 5th. They have ALWAYS been easy to kill, except in 2nd edition which was a completely different animal.

War Walkers have never had good armor and are open-topped. A tactical squad in 5th could devote a round of shooting at them and they would practically evaporate even if the only heavy weapon was a heavy bolter.

If your war walkers are being charged, you've done something wrong... they have relatively long range weaponry for a reason.

As far as AV12 flyers, those are the minority and we can deal with them the same way everyone else will have to until we get a new codex, pay 50 damn points for the fortification that has the skyfire weapon. Stop whining. You are talking about a 4th edition codex being unable to deal with a 6th edition phenomenon so of course we have issues. Also, I point you in the direction of rumors (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=22137) that state that Eldar will see their own flyer in a splash release later this year. This is a temporary problem at most.

[Freelancer]

yea nightwing interceptor gw plastic kit id bet.....

Mechdar took a huge hit in this edition but I play saim hann style and my games haven't changed much....the nerf to wychblades kinda sucks but its not to0 bad.....

my view of the units i take and the only ones i own lol.

Farseer on bikes : amazing , still the best scyker in the game, more manueverable now took a hit with the wychblade nerf but meh. I almost garentee GW will nerf farseers in the next codex because they don't like competition for there powered armor boys I expect all of the sychic powers to be watered down or removed altogether for useless ones. Simply because right now they are the only thing holding this dex together.

Warlocks : singing spears are gonna be the chosen here , or at least a few

Gaurdians on bikes : with a warlock , farseer's help allways as good as they ever were

Vypers : squadron rules arent so bad anymore I saw a dip in there survivability having the flat out out move save being changed to 5+ but as a squadron you can allocate the damage and spread it around so they have to take 4 hits before 1 goes down.

War Walkers : LOL i allways took em cheap with scatters there even better now in squadrons thats alot of ranged shots going down the board you will need vs some armies

Fire Dragons : wow there amazing! too bad they wont ever make it to there target cause every large ranged gun will be aimed at the wave serpent carrying them.

Banshees : I think they are still decent vs regular troops...but overcosted to do so, just like most things in this ancient dex haha.

wave serpents : garbage now..the 5+ move save makes them dark eldar raiders that cost more. i actually think glances should only be worth 1/2 a hull point to balance it out....but thats just me removing full hullpoints for glancing hits is just silly cause vehicles were meant to be ridin in for protection now they are death traps! Home games i will emplace this rule becaue the way gw thinks is just silly i swear they don't think of the long term reprocussions of there rules....not to mention how many models in each codex will be effected by these rules.

Fire Prism : I'd say they aren't worth it for there points anymore GW really screwed over vehicles in this edition after reading through the rules I think nightwings are a better choice 2 bright lance and 2 cannons plus eldar titan fields with interceptor rule makes these the kings of the skies.

I have a warp hunter i havent used yet in 6th but i might to take the heat off my fire dragons that are still a must have in the army because really its the only way to deal with av 14, thunderwolves , nob bikers ect.....or to ace that small squad of rines.

I think the biggest thing that needs changing in our dex is points cost....they need to rebalance the cost of our units to current dex. Also every single eldar should have BS 4 at least BS 3 1000 year old + beings is kinda silly....they have spent some time practicing. Our vehicles are supposed to be the 2nd most advanced in the galaxy next to necrons....and now they are little better than dark eldars for 3x the points. ... dont get me started on how useless DE are in 6th on there own... but either way.

[antennafarm]

got some gaming in today with my eldar.. my thoughts:

eldrad + pathfinders is BRUTAL. especially if you have them sitting high up (place your terrain carefully!)

psychic shriek is cool but i never seemed to be able to throw more than two wounds on a squad (i have it for terminator hunting). but the jetbike farseer is a good addon to a guardian jetbike squad (make those shuriken cannons reroll to hit with the divination primaris power). also, ghosthelm is money.. between it and runes of witnessing/warding, eldar have a damned good psychic game.

nightspinner's are bruuuuutal, especially since they can fire without line of sight but reroll due to TL. nothing new, though.

fire dragons and dire avengers performed as expected.

wave serpents get wrecked but still make it to drop their payload. not sure what everyone's complaining about.

bright lances are way more useful with hull points (in my opinion). heck, versus mech SM, all the s6 stuff is great (wrecking rhinos and razorbacks left and right).

my big issue was dealing with 2+ armor and a land raider, although i think with the bright lances i could've dealt with the latter if i wanted to ignore the troop transports.

all in all, i'm intrigued. also, at 2000 points it opens up the second force org, which means the possibility for more farseers. also, looking to try out howling banshees for pathfinder support....

[ljal]

Nightspinner is a heavy slot or fast? I am quite confused.
In corsair forces they r fast.

[eldargal]

Corsair list has them fast, regular codex (via WD) has them heavy support.

[Autarch]

While things are pretty tough for CWE right now, if the Forgeworld units become legal it might be a boon in non-apocalypse games (due to the nerf hammer on our super heavies). Hornets, and Warp Hunters could really pull us out of the fire without having to beg our Imperial opponents to use our FW stuff. It could definitely give us that much vaunted firepower we're supposed be bringing to the table. I always remember the quote on the spine on the 3rd ed. codex. "The only thing which surpasses their arrogance is their firepower." That quote has been pretty much a joke to me since 3rd ed, but with the new hull points rules, the effectivness of str 6 glancing hits, and the no questions asked inclusion of FW models, in terms of firepower we might be creeping back to where we should be (i.e. IG level alpha strike ability).

[eldargal]

That would be nice, but if we can take FW units so can other armies, and most of theirs are simply superior.

[Autarch]

Thats definitely true with the Cestus Assault Ramp and all the other crap, however (and this is just the competitor in me) if given a balanced army I feel I can compete. I think the big problem for me with Eldar has been a complete lack of reliable heavy long range fire. I think that lack of long range fire power makes Eldar so predictable in terms of target priority. Everything with any teeth in an Eldar army is coming right at you in your face via Wave Serpent i.e: Fire Dragons, Dire Avengers (and in 5th Banshees) or via Jetbikes, and with your typical Marine army that exactly what they want.

Give me some hornets with pulse lasers, a warp hunter, fire dragons and dire avengers and perhaps a seer council on jetbikes and I think I can win. The reason being that you don't know exactly what the hornets, warp hunter and fire dragons are going to do. All three units can now go after a variety of targets, ranging from vehicles, hq hunting, or even terminators. I actually think the lack of units like the warp hunter and pulse laser hornets takes away so much from the ability of Fire Dragons to be one of the best anti-Terminator units in the game.

I think my main point is the lack of versatility has truly crippled Eldar for a long long time. Given a little versatility I feel I can compete. That doesn't change the fact that I'm a pissed off Eldar player, whose seen everything that makes my army unique ported to every other army in the game. But still give me a little versatility and I think I can compete.

[ljal]

What do you think of this: main force eldar:ally corsair? is it feasible?

[DarkLink]

also, ghosthelm is money.. between it and runes of witnessing/warding, eldar have a damned good psychic game.

That's not terribly different from before.



wave serpents get wrecked but still make it to drop their payload. not sure what everyone's complaining about.

They're complaining because you can't just throw away ~140pts just to deliver a squad of fire dragons to melta a rhino.

Marines can afford to waste 35pt to give a unit a couple extra turns of movement. Eldar can't do the same. Hull Points hurt Eldar vehicles a lot, and Eldar vehicles were one of the few decent things you can still do with the codex, because they were tough to kill. Now, they're not.



bright lances are way more useful with hull points (in my opinion). heck, versus mech SM, all the s6 stuff is great (wrecking rhinos and razorbacks left and right).

Bright lances are still super, super expensive.

[Freelancer]

While things are pretty tough for CWE right now, if the Forgeworld units become legal it might be a boon in non-apocalypse games (due to the nerf hammer on our super heavies). Hornets, and Warp Hunters could really pull us out of the fire without having to beg our Imperial opponents to use our FW stuff. It could definitely give us that much vaunted firepower we're supposed be bringing to the table. I always remember the quote on the spine on the 3rd ed. codex. "The only thing which surpasses their arrogance is their firepower." That quote has been pretty much a joke to me since 3rd ed, but with the new hull points rules, the effectivness of str 6 glancing hits, and the no questions asked inclusion of FW models, in terms of firepower we might be creeping back to where we should be (i.e. IG level alpha strike ability).

It's whatever at our local club if someone doesent let me use forgeworld i simply don't play him....often someone will want to play me with my forgeworld stuff! of course some of the guys take some pretty broken lists especially the necrons.....

Warrior spam 2 bricks of 20 with 9+ destroyers trezar on a little skimmer thing 2 of those barges and as many scarab swarms as they can fit in a 1850 list......this army DESTROYED me it was fun but i get wrecked 2x games in a row theres just to much ap 3 in that list to survive with the change....basically i know the destroyers and barges must die so i send my pro seer council after them....I was even able to multi- assault 2 groups of 3 destroyers...but the scarab swarms bogged down my farseer and council all game leaving the rest hit destroyers and barges to wreck my jetbikes turn after turn. I really dont see a counter to this besides warp hunters...or maybe "gasp" wraithlords. The nightwings performed admirably though....his barges did go and his hq had to be ressurected 3 times but that initial 2 turns of shooting that many ap 3 rounds at my army was rough... maybe just assaulting all 1 side of his army would have been better than trying to shoot them off the board idk.....

my army concists of pretty standard saim hann stuff, my go to all comers as of right now.

Farseer , 6 seer council 2 spears ,kitted warding fortune, doom , mindwar. and guide ( although expensive having a swiss army knife HQ really goes a long way in 6th )
6 guardians with a warlock with a spear 2x canons x 3
2 nightwing interceptors
3 war walkers shuriken cannons
5 fire dragons exar with tank hunters in a wave serpent stones, missiles ,shurikens canon


The game I played last night was against an all troopy drop pod space wolves list....lotsa jaws and preists
grey hunters with plasma and powerfists a few with melta and a sizable amount i think 10 terminators with 12 long fangs

I had a blast playing this army as it was pretty scary cause he stole the initiative and managed almost ace my seer council. I lived though and went on to kill 2 squads of hunters...my firedragons transport got wrecked on turn 1 but luckily there was a building for cover so i scurried in there to hide them and wait for the impending termie drop. Mindwar kept me in the game cause with the nerf to sychic hoods only being within 6" i was able to snipe 2 rune preists and his terminator leader dude cant remember if it was named.
I used same tactics against this army as i did in 5th and prevailed...kept my units just above 24" to stay out of arms reach of rapid fire. I turbo'd 48" and isolated 2 squads of marines the following turn letting my war walkers and firedragons in cover take the fire in the initial deployed corner they were hiding behind a rune with there guns and slight pilot popping out so they had a 4+ which they made probably 6 of before he even killed 1. They killed probably 300 or so points of marines that game...double what they cost....so war walkers are still a good unit in my eyes. I couldn't manage to kill any terminators the entire game though besides mind warring his hq to death lol.

Have any of you guys had any luck fighting the new crons?

[Aramel]

I'm pretty sure the psychic hood nerf does not apply to the space wolf version "runic hood" at least all the space wolf players I know are playing it the same was as in 5th.

So far I only played necrons twice with 6th and crushed them both times. In the first game I wiped out both turbo boosted command barges in the same turn. One with bright lances on Eldrad's wave serpent that I made ignore cover and the other got punched in the face by my wraithlord (being able to target the lord now is fantastic).

He teleported his melee warriors with shields next to me (forget what they are called), which got wiped out by my seer council's 4 destructor warlocks and pistol fire, with support from my avengers. I had managed to get the divination power that forces the enemy to re-roll sucessful saves. Combined with prescience my council was pretty lethal. In addition he had two units of 6 wraiths with two whip coils each. My council managed to eliminate both and only lose two warlocks. Overwatch with flamers is really devastating and with my combined psychic powers I was re-rolling everything essentially while forcing my opponent to re-roll his saves (the witch was not denied!).

The second game I fought a pretty poor list, consisting of only warriors and a royal court. I used a different list, with 20 guardians that had Eldrad and two Farseers in it. I managed to roll invisibility, so my guardians walked across the board with a 2+ re-rollable cover save and generally anihilating everything in it's path. I also got the 1st Divination power, so the Royal court was taken out by overwatch, save for the overlord, who was promply cut down by Eldrad.

[DarkLink]

Of course it doesn't apply to space wolves. Phil Kelly would never allow it.

[Freelancer]

I'm pretty sure the psychic hood nerf does not apply to the space wolf version "runic hood" at least all the space wolf players I know are playing it the same was as in 5th.

So far I only played necrons twice with 6th and crushed them both times. In the first game I wiped out both turbo boosted command barges in the same turn. One with bright lances on Eldrad's wave serpent that I made ignore cover and the other got punched in the face by my wraithlord (being able to target the lord now is fantastic).

He teleported his melee warriors with shields next to me (forget what they are called), which got wiped out by my seer council's 4 destructor warlocks and pistol fire, with support from my avengers. I had managed to get the divination power that forces the enemy to re-roll sucessful saves. Combined with prescience my council was pretty lethal. In addition he had two units of 6 wraiths with two whip coils each. My council managed to eliminate both and only lose two warlocks. Overwatch with flamers is really devastating and with my combined psychic powers I was re-rolling everything essentially while forcing my opponent to re-roll his saves (the witch was not denied!).

The second game I fought a pretty poor list, consisting of only warriors and a royal court. I used a different list, with 20 guardians that had Eldrad and two Farseers in it. I managed to roll invisibility, so my guardians walked across the board with a 2+ re-rollable cover save and generally anihilating everything in it's path. I also got the 1st Divination power, so the Royal court was taken out by overwatch, save for the overlord, who was promply cut down by Eldrad.

Oh they do i argued that if his sychic hoods work like his codex then my witchblades would also still be str 9 vs vehicles as per codex > main book idea. Dick move? or just cheating lol?

Yea its the destroyer and brick warrior spam that really hurts man e set his objectives close to him all he had to do was line up his dudes a certain way....and both his massive squads could reach them pretty easily . prefered enemy against everything IS SO BROKEN ....those destroyers are insane. Also the other big factor in that were the scarabs....those things are stupid good at bogging down a unit for multiple turns. I think I shouldnt have been so hasty on the assault and shot the scarabs before going in for the kill on the destroyers and trying to weather another turn from those destroyers and barges....Idk next week i plan on going at him again same list I should be able to break him with the amount of str 6 + weaponry available to me.

[rle68]

Of course it doesn't apply to space wolves. Phil Kelly would never allow it.

why would it? its not a psychic hood.. and quite honestly for 245 points he better be able to do something pretty damn well

there is no counter for your ghost helm or runes of warding is there?

[rle68]

Oh they do i argued that if his sychic hoods work like his codex then my witchblades would also still be str 9 vs vehicles as per codex > main book idea. Dick move? or just cheating lol?

Yea its the destroyer and brick warrior spam that really hurts man e set his objectives close to him all he had to do was line up his dudes a certain way....and both his massive squads could reach them pretty easily . prefered enemy against everything IS SO BROKEN ....those destroyers are insane. Also the other big factor in that were the scarabs....those things are stupid good at bogging down a unit for multiple turns. I think I shouldnt have been so hasty on the assault and shot the scarabs before going in for the kill on the destroyers and trying to weather another turn from those destroyers and barges....Idk next week i plan on going at him again same list I should be able to break him with the amount of str 6 + weaponry available to me.

here is the difference and you can tell them this
the staff is not a psych hood never was never acted like one.. wytch blades say use the rule book rune staves dont

thats all you need to say

[Freelancer]

here is the difference and you can tell them this
the staff is not a psych hood never was never acted like one.. wytch blades say use the rule book rune staves dont

thats all you need to say

SO they are indeed srt 9 vs armor as per codex > rulebook ?

[Ruleslawyer]

SO they are indeed srt 9 vs armor as per codex > rulebook ?
Eldar Codex in regards to witchblades says refer to BRB. Singing Spears says S9 vs vehicles and 2+ to wound.

[quinn]

So, we're having a bit of an argument here among the FoB staff about V-Cannons. What it boils down to is whether you get a glance per hit rolled, or just one glance per battery line of fire per vehicle the line hits? If you roll 3 hits..do you get 3 glances on each vehicle the line passes through?..or do you get just one? This rule isn't written that great and probably wasn't a big deal in 5th Ed, but with the changes it is a very big deal now. I don't know that this audience will be impartial for obvious reasons, but we'd like your input. Especially how it was played before. Thanks.

[Yarlen Fireblade]

It has always been D6 per unit hit per gun in unit that hits, and a glance per vehicle per cannon that hits.

Bear in mind also all units, both friend and foe are hit.

[eldargal]

No, actually its D6 hits per BATTERY that fires, each extra cannon adds +1S not an extra D6. It remains one hit to a vehicle. I don't believe it translates to one hit per cannon either, otherwise it would also be one D6 per cannon.

[ljal]

Sorry for stupid questions (n00b i mean). What is the cover save foraegis defence line? I am not quite sure if 4or 3+ it is not exactly stated to treat it as ruins or not. Thank you.

[thecactusman17]

Just used aegis lines last night. They give a 4+ to everyone behind the wall within 2". Proved to be an excellent choice for duke discuss and twenty warriors to hide in while eliminating a large group of plague marines. Seized initiative and night fight on turn one saved my bacon.

[Aramel]

In the fortification section is states that the Aegis defense line follows the same rules as normal barriers (4+ cover) and also gives +2 if you go to ground, just like area cover. Also all bikes need to take dangerous terrain tests when assaulting units behind it. Overall pretty nice unless you are hit by barrage weapons (and they don't scatter in the right direction).

[Sainhann]

This new fortification just might be what the Eldar need because they lack in decent saves and their toughness 3 means they are getting wounded on 3+ or in many instances 2+.

So placing some Pathfinders behind these walls and they will end up with a 2+ cover save.

Throw in some Dire Avengers for Sniper Protection and just hope your opponent is not taking a lot of barrage weapons.

Could also be a viable protection for War Walkers as well.

Because until a new Eldar Codex comes out I really believe that Eldar need to bunker down but have some fast moving units as well.

We lack in troop support since most of our opponent can sit back at 20-24" range and just out shoot the Eldar.

How I hate GW for nerfing my Guardians Shuriken Catapults all those many years ago.

Why couldn't they just made them a Rapid Fire Weapon where they get one shot out to 24" but at 12" or less 3 shots.

If they have done that we wouldn't be so screwed in the Troop department.

[Gauthic]

This new fortification just might be what the Eldar need because they lack in decent saves and their toughness 3 means they are getting wounded on 3+ or in many instances 2+.

So placing some Pathfinders behind these walls and they will end up with a 2+ cover save.

Throw in some Dire Avengers for Sniper Protection and just hope your opponent is not taking a lot of barrage weapons.

Could also be a viable protection for War Walkers as well.

Because until a new Eldar Codex comes out I really believe that Eldar need to bunker down but have some fast moving units as well.

We lack in troop support since most of our opponent can sit back at 20-24" range and just out shoot the Eldar.

How I hate GW for nerfing my Guardians Shuriken Catapults all those many years ago.

Why couldn't they just made them a Rapid Fire Weapon where they get one shot out to 24" but at 12" or less 3 shots.

If they have done that we wouldn't be so screwed in the Troop department.

In second edition they had an identical profile to the Storm Bolter IIRC, they should have just kept it at that in third.

[ljal]

Using aegis you can establish it like that:

---------------
! ..... !..... !
!...1..!..2...!
.....------.....

And scouts inside 1 AND 2 compartment
So even barrage (1) will never take all of your scouts inside :)

[eldargal]

So with artillery getting a good boost in 6th, which support weapons are people thinking of taking?

D-weapons: three of these in a battery will be three AP2 blast templates that wound on 2+ and ID on a 6 at 24" and have a 50% chance of taking off a hull point each. All for 150 points.

Vibro cannon: Same price nets you a 36" line of D6 S6 hits on any unit caught in the path if even one of the cannon rolls a hit. Automatic HP loss on a vehicle, possibly up to 3 depending on how the rule is interpreted.

Shadow Weavers: The cheap option, 90 points gets you 3 S6 blast templates with 48" range

For a modest price on top of this you can aadd a Warlock to the unit and use his BS for one of the weapons, particularly useful for assuring a vibro cannon battery works properly.

I love d-cannons, but 24" range on a largely immobile platform limits their use somewhat. I'd want to make sure I could set them up in such a way that the enemy has to go into their line of fire for whatever reason and that I could anchor their flanks to stop them being flanked. Perhaps a good answer to assault terminators.

Vibrocannon could either be good (D6 S6 hits for three, automatic HP loss on a vehicle) or great (D6 S6 hits, 3 HPs lost on a vehicle) it should also be able to damage flyers even without snapfire due to the way it operates.

Shadow weavers are my preferred option in general. A lot of S6 hits at a decent range for Eldar, and cheap.


Opinions?

[Defenestratus]

Is anyone thinking about taking shining spears again? I know they're still overcosted, but my big problem with them was always the fact that their squad size was too small - resulting in breaking and running away with the autarch in tow.

Now that they can recover even when two are still alive, and the exarch has some extra protection via LoS... I'm thinking that I might take these guys again and give them a shot.

[eldargal]

They are tougher with a better cover save now too, I think they may be better light vehicle hunters now than they were in 5th. Still not 100% keen on them due to price but they are certainly shaping up decently.

[Defenestratus]

They are tougher with a better cover save now too, I think they may be better light vehicle hunters now than they were in 5th. Still not 100% keen on them due to price but they are certainly shaping up decently.

They also get impact hits as well - at str 3 but whatever, they're automatic hits right? :P

[lattd]

They also get impact hits as well - at str 3 but whatever, they're automatic hits right? :P

Don't the shining spear lances get an increase in strength on the charge? or am i thinking of something else.

[Sainhann]

So with artillery getting a good boost in 6th, which support weapons are people thinking of taking?

D-weapons: three of these in a battery will be three AP2 blast templates that wound on 2+ and ID on a 6 at 24" and have a 50% chance of taking off a hull point each. All for 150 points.

Vibro cannon: Same price nets you a 36" line of D6 S6 hits on any unit caught in the path if even one of the cannon rolls a hit. Automatic HP loss on a vehicle, possibly up to 3 depending on how the rule is interpreted.

Shadow Weavers: The cheap option, 90 points gets you 3 S6 blast templates with 48" range

For a modest price on top of this you can aadd a Warlock to the unit and use his BS for one of the weapons, particularly useful for assuring a vibro cannon battery works properly.

I love d-cannons, but 24" range on a largely immobile platform limits their use somewhat. I'd want to make sure I could set them up in such a way that the enemy has to go into their line of fire for whatever reason and that I could anchor their flanks to stop them being flanked. Perhaps a good answer to assault terminators.

Vibrocannon could either be good (D6 S6 hits for three, automatic HP loss on a vehicle) or great (D6 S6 hits, 3 HPs lost on a vehicle) it should also be able to damage flyers even without snapfire due to the way it operates.

Shadow weavers are my preferred option in general. A lot of S6 hits at a decent range for Eldar, and cheap.


Opinions?

I am thinking the Shadow Weaver since they have the best range of the three and the blast templates are good against large groups of Infantry and Light Vehicles.

But all three can have their uses since two of them can fire indirect.

The Vibro Cannons could just be our best Anti Flyer weapon outside of Scatter Laser War Walkers.

[DarkLink]

Hammer of Wrath is always at base strength. But, yes, they auto-hit.

[ljal]

has anybody used waspwalkers in 6th? I am not quite sure about their edge over regular walkers, but they r fast arent they?

[Gwyidion]

I'll be taking 3x D-cannons. I run wraithwall, and it is just too damn fun to have a bunch of wraithlords, wraithguard, and a battery of D-cannons.

However, if the rules do support the number of hits on a vibrocannon battery being the number of glances, that might be a must-take for eldar HS.

In either case, the high toughness synergizes very well with wraithwall (T6, T7, T8 units), and is going to feature in many of my lists.

I think my warlock (which i'll nearly always take, as he can be a spiritseer, and allow the battery to be babysat by a WL), will run embolden. Don't forget that even with T7, you have a Ld8 unit there. Having it break from shooting would be very bad.

[Aramel]

Now that the game is so objetive oriented, the D-cannon short range might not be such a bad thing. You can place objectives 12" apart and 6" from the edge. On average you will have 4 objectives and the chance to place both of them well beneath the watchful eye of the heavy platform crew.

Leave your battery behind a wall protecting your home objectives with a couple of troops and you are free to send the rest of your army to one enemy objective. If the enemy comes at you even better! Funnel and focus fire is what we do best after all...

[DrWobbles]

has anybody used waspwalkers in 6th? I am not quite sure about their edge over regular walkers, but they r fast arent they?

Wasps are delicious. I run them for one reason; Jet packs. Move, Shoot, Move. their survivability has been greatly increased, plus, the corsair version is BS4. Craftworld version is only BS3 but is a fast attack choice. So if you're feeling silly you could have 18 war walkers lighting up the battlefield.

that being said they only have 2 hull points so make sure there's a big piece of terrain to hide behind.

[Montserrat]

In second edition they had an identical profile to the Storm Bolter IIRC, they should have just kept it at that in third.

Nope, it was Better than a stormbolter, -2 save modifier....stormbolter has only -1.

Since 1996 we have crap shootguns, even imperial lasgun its better now. I will remember that day forever, the day i took my tiny 3 edition eldar codex, saw the 12" ....stared...smiled and said: its a print error :). No it wasnt.

In my opinion shurikats : S4 AP 5 24" rending Assault 2. Shuricanons S5 AP 4 36" rending Heavy 3. Do the math is not that creepy.

[Gauthic]

Nope, it was Better than a stormbolter, -2 save modifier....stormbolter has only -1.

Since 1996 we have crap shootguns, even imperial lasgun its better now. I will remember that day forever, the day i took my tiny 3 edition eldar codex, saw the 12" ....stared...smiled and said: its a print error :). No it wasnt.

In my opinion shurikats : S4 AP 5 24" rending Assault 2. Shuricanons S5 AP 4 36" rending Heavy 3. Do the math is not that creepy.

You're absolutely right! I totally forgot about the additional -1 save modifier on top of the strength (it's been a loooong time since I've read any of the 2nd edition materials)

[Defenestratus]

Just thinking about the Line-of-sight and targeting rules vis-a-vis wound allocation.

The "Guardian conga line behind a building with only the support weapon out in the open" tactic can be used again.

[Tynskel]

still gotta be able to see.

[Aramel]

Do you need LoS from a guardian or can you just see a target from the heavy weapon? Otherwise you could just shoot that and keep guardians out of sight where they can't be killed.

[ljal]

To more experienced players: how do harlies perform? What do you think of how Veil works now - is there a roll for spotting? If yes, anybody used them?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They altered it on the FAQ, I can't remember the exact wording. I think it's permanent Shrouding now?

[eldargal]

Yes, the exact wording of the rule as amended by the FAQ gives Harlequins Stealth, Shrouded and spotting distance. That is how it is written, until it is FAQd otherwise that is how it works.

To more experienced players: how do harlies perform? What do you think of how Veil works now - is there a roll for spotting? If yes, anybody used them?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh, cool. Yey! I was right. :D

May pack a unit of Harlies, I fancy a painting challenge.

[ljal]

Another funny story:
Pathfinder firing with quad guns still have sniper rule so any 6's with gun is also so devastating?
On the basis of article:
40K: Tips and Tricks for Surviving 6th

[kappa1az]

hey when are my poor guardians gonna get some love...5th edition guardians sucked range 12 guns and when someone got to within range and you didnt kill them, your were in big trouble...guardians 6th edition still suck and may not even get a shot off except for snap fire defense shots..

not sure what they can do to help guardians, maybe lower the cost, but they need something

tim

[eldargal]

Guardians are a codex issue, we were never going to see any boost to them with a new BRB. It isn't USRs that let hem done, but the range on their weapons and their cost.:(

[Gwyidion]

Another funny story:
Pathfinder firing with quad guns still have sniper rule so any 6's with gun is also so devastating?
On the basis of article:
40K: Tips and Tricks for Surviving 6th

This is true, but it is much more powerful to use a fire dragon exarch with crack shot and tank hunters (cheaper too).

[Defenestratus]

still gotta be able to see.

Thus the reason for leaving one guardian out in the open with the gun.

You can shoot the heavy weapon while leaving only one model vulnerable to retaliation. He dies, you shift the line down and replace the poor SOB.

[Xenith]

Thus the reason for leaving one guardian out in the open with the gun.

You can shoot the heavy weapon while leaving only one model vulnerable to retaliation. He dies, you shift the line down and replace the poor SOB.

Only two of the guardians are crewmen, though. If they both die, then the heavy weapon platform token disappears. regular joes cannot operate the HWP.

[eldargal]

Yep, the codex actually states that the model is just a marker, the weapon is assumed to be carried by one of the two crew and that if both crew are killed the weapon is removed.

tl:dr: Guardians still suck.:rolleyes:

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Poor, poor Guardians...

[Aramel]

Another funny story:
Pathfinder firing with quad guns still have sniper rule so any 6's with gun is also so devastating?
On the basis of article:
40K: Tips and Tricks for Surviving 6th

Nah, it's the rfle itself that gives the AP1/sniper rifle rule not the Pathfinder themselves. To use an emplacement you fire that instead of your usual weapon. My favourite person to man the quad gun is still the dark reaper exarch with a tempest launcher and crack shot.

Ignoring cover virtually guarantees a dead flyer per turn and you have something to shoot when your targer is more than 36" away. Tank hunter is nice, but a bit of a waste to have your fire dragons in the back with nothing to shoot at for most of the game. Also unlike reapers, they can never be scoring. Oh and as a character, exarchs can choose your target on 6s to hit!

Re: guardians. I don't know, I put Eldrad and two farseers in a unit of 20 and they have done some amazing things. Sometimes they have a 2+ cover save, sometimes a 4+invul or counter strike and overwatch at BS. They always have fortune, doom and prescience. The unit is so cheap and great firepower potential if you get the right powers, being able to re-roll hits, wounds, saves and, on occasion, forcing the enemy to re-roll saves!.

[lattd]

The Tempest launcher is a template weapon isn't it? if so it cannot hit flyers.

[Aramel]

Right, but the Exarch is using the quad gun, not the launcher. When manning an emplacement you get to pick a) which model in base contact fires it and b) whether that model uses the emplaced weapon or one of his own. Because the rest of the reaper squd has a 48" weapon, like the quad gun, I just meant that the quad gun has the added benefit of giving the exacrch the same range even if he has a tempest launcher.

[lattd]

Ahh I get you now, hmm thats nasty lol.

[Aramel]

Dark Eldar on quad-guns are nasty too during night fighting thanks to night vision.

[ljal]

To Aramel: of course you r right! Hmmm so reapers in aegis come back? Nice :)

[Coyote81]

Eldargirl, good news. you got your wishes. You can take Corsair from FW as Eldar allies and vice versa!

[Iaipunk]

I don't know how I noticed this, but the little T at the end of the Night Spinner entry, makes that one a transport.
How many guys should we put in it?

[gresha]

I don't know how I noticed this, but the little T at the end of the Night Spinner entry, makes that one a transport.
How many guys should we put in it?

I'm gonna guess that's a typo. If not I'd assume its 6 like a Falcon

[JMichael]

I don't know how I noticed this, but the little T at the end of the Night Spinner entry, makes that one a transport.
How many guys should we put in it?

What is really interesing: The forgeworld Night Spinner had a transport of 6. But with the FW FAQ it no longer is Transport.

Now the Rulebook has the GW Night Spinner at Transport. Though probably a typo...here's hoping!

[Defenestratus]

What is really interesing: The forgeworld Night Spinner had a transport of 6. But with the FW FAQ it no longer is Transport.

Now the Rulebook has the GW Night Spinner at Transport. Though probably a typo...here's hoping!

I don't have the WD rules addendum that was released for them a while ago - I'd use that as a guide as to whether or not its a typo or not. Its always been a transport IIRC.

[JMichael]

The Night Spinner is not a Transport according to the White Dwarf rules.
So for a while you could use the GW rules (no transport, but Monofiliament rules) or the Forgeworld rules (6person transport but no Monofilament rules).

[DrLove42]

Nightspinners arent really worth taking now that the changes to dangerous terrain allow saves. So youre better off with a Warp Hunter.

[SeekingOne]

Hi All :) First time posting in these forums...

Read through this whole thread and didn't see anyone mentioning these minor yet interesting things.

The "Hit&Run" USR is now one of those that works "if there's at least one model with this rule in a unit". This means that it is also conferred by a unit to a joined character, and this in turm means:

a) that a Harlequin unit with a joined Farseer on foot can still withdraw from combat;
b) that a Shining Spear with a joined Farseer on bike can also still withdraw from combat.

In regards to ShSpears, they have actually become one of the most "Fortune-efficient" units, since they now have 4+ cover anytime they move and 3+ on turbo-boost (jink + skilled riders). Granted, it still doesn't make them good :) But now they almost look like a viable option at least for a friendly game.

The idea of having a FD exarch with Crack Shot and Tank Hunters man a quad gun is truly outstanding :) It never occured to me till I read it here. And I really don't think that a DR exarch can compare with FD one in that role, because Tank Hunters is critical in getting an AV12 flyer shot down reliably and, most importantly, quickly. So far, in my area a Blood Angels army of 3 loaded-up Storm Ravens has been pretty much auto-winning against anything that couldn't come up with some decisive anti-air firepower - which gave me a distinct feeling that anything capable of taking out those flyers is invaluable. It also preferrebly has to be non-vehicle-based firepower, because anything vehicle-based gets evaporated by those Ravens on the turn they come out from reserves.

[Archon Charybdis]

Nightspinners arent really worth taking now that the changes to dangerous terrain allow saves. So youre better off with a Warp Hunter.

Oy, I hadn't considered that :-\

I rather liked them in 5th Ed, I thought they brought a utility that was often under appreciated, and were incredibly effective at killing large units that suffered from having to take so many dangerous terrain checks. I suppose against IG and Orks that's still the case, but against SMs it's not nearly as useful.

[Ruleslawyer]

Oy, I hadn't considered that :-\

I rather liked them in 5th Ed, I thought they brought a utility that was often under appreciated, and were incredibly effective at killing large units that suffered from having to take so many dangerous terrain checks. I suppose against IG and Orks that's still the case, but against SMs it's not nearly as useful.

Here I disagree. Yes taking saves from Dangerous terrain was okay but I never relied on DangTT to kill enough people just as I never relied upon its rending ability( I never rolled enough sixes and my opponents never seemed to roll enough ones). For me its most useful ability is to slow down a foot advance and disrupt a players plans. The psychological impact against a player is lessened with the new DangT rules (I don't know how many advances I stalled just by a player being unwilling to make a DangTT) but just slowing an opponent down can be worth its weight in plastic.

[eldargal]

I agree with ruleslawyer, I still like the Nightspinner fori ts indirect fire and slowing effect as much as the dangerous terrain tests. The S5 templates aren't bad either. Certainly it isn't as useful against terminators as it was but for slowing down and killing horde armies or elite deathstar units it isn't bad at all. Especially when you consider transports are easier to pop now.

[DrLove42]

FW lied to us!

Got the newest FW IA Aeronautica book. IN the back under special rules ETHF are still just a shrouding rule. They're not a flat 5+ as well. Seeing as this ruleboook is out after the FAQ, it trumps it?

As a side note, Eldar in the book. The prices are the same as in IA11, but;
- The Phoenix has shrouded (not Holofields) as well as Vector Dancer and Strafing Run. (seems to be a VERY good heavy aircraft....but only AV10 with 3 HP
- The Nightwing....i'm in 2 minds about. Its only AV10, 2 HP for 145 points. But it gains vector dancer, shrouded and agile rules. These last 2 mean it has a 5+ cover save at all times, but if it goes evasive is has a 2+ cover save (5+ evade, +2 for shrouded, +1 for agile improving jink saves). No compensation for being an interceptor though

The Lynx is the same (its in here) as are both the Vampires (still twinlinked!) and the Firestorm is still overpriced and ****e

[Yarlen Fireblade]

So, they don´t want to sell any more Nightwings I think... 2 HP, AV 10, same points cost and no holofields?

I´m paying 145 points for a unit that will easily fall prey to any gun or even rapid fire bolters (not mentioning it will be auto killed by any long range Interceptor unit when it comes to play). Hell, I can always evade, not ever getting to fire except on 6s and probably save, making it a nice enjoyable sightseeing trip for the pilot. Wasn´t the Nightwing the best interceptor in 40k?

Someone surely forgot that in the playtesting way here. I prefer my points spent on something that will fire or fight at least a couple of turns, thank you.

[JMichael]

On a Flyer Shrouded is just as good as the FAQ'd 5+ Holofield in most cases since Blast and Templates can't target flyers (like most Str D weapons use a Blast).

[Yarlen Fireblade]

On a Flyer Shrouded is just as good as the FAQ'd 5+ Holofield in most cases since Blast and Templates can't target flyers (like most Str D weapons use a Blast).

Holofields were 4++, not 5+ cover. Also, not remotely as good, as quite a lot of specialists in armies ignore cover, but not ++.

An AV10 vehicle with 4++ was by no means over the top for 145 points. An AV10 shrouded with 2 HP is a flying coffin that would probably never shoot, spending all the time evading fire. And it´s still 145 points, which is silly. It should have had at least a 4+ shrouded to make it viable.

We talked about it some pages in this thread, the supposed best interceptor in the game by fluff is incapable of tackling troop transports. That is just wrong.

[Archon Charybdis]

That sounds really pathetic for the Nightwing; I'm really incredibly disappointed. A 2+ cover save is kind of meaningless when evading makes you basically useless as a dog fighter (or at all). If they had given them a rule like they could still fire at other flyers on normal BS even while evading (only at the normal 3+), that would be something. It would make it pretty dangerous but limit it's focus to it's longtime fluff role as the most dangerous AA fighter in the galaxy.

[SeekingOne]

Someone surely forgot that in the playtesting way here. I prefer my points spent on something that will fire or fight at least a couple of turns, thank you.

Just wanted to make a small comment on the use of Nightwings in regards to the complaint that I quoted above.

Eldar Turn 2: Nightwing arrives from reserve, shoots something.
Opponent's Turn 2: Nightwing gets shot and goes on Evasion.
Eldar Turn 3: Nightwing, being practically unable to shoot, crosses the sonic barrier and blasts off the field and into Ongoing Reserves.
Opponent's Turn 3: whatever
Eldar Turn 4: Nightwing arrives from reserve, shoots something.
etc.

Just wanted to show that, unless your Nightwing gets killed in 1 round of shooting, 2 turns of firing per game is precisely what you would normally get with it.

The point cost is still just utterly ridiculous.

[DrLove42]

Just wanted to make a small comment on the use of Nightwings in regards to the complaint that I quoted above.

Eldar Turn 2: Nightwing arrives from reserve, shoots something.
Opponent's Turn 2: Nightwing gets shot and goes on Evasion.
Eldar Turn 3: Nightwing, being practically unable to shoot, crosses the sonic barrier and blasts off the field and into Ongoing Reserves.
Opponent's Turn 3: whatever
Eldar Turn 4: Nightwing arrives from reserve, shoots something.
etc.

Just wanted to show that, unless your Nightwing gets killed in 1 round of shooting, 2 turns of firing per game is precisely what you would normally get with it.

The point cost is still just utterly ridiculous.
Great so i get 2 turns of shooting oit of my 145 point choice? And this assumes the enemy have no interceptor weapons

[SeekingOne]

Great so i get 2 turns of shooting oit of my 145 point choice? And this assumes the enemy have no interceptor weapons

You're absolutely correct, and that's precisely why I mentioned that the Nightwing's point cost is still ridiculous.

But there's one other funny thing here that is worth mentioning. In my experience, approximately two turns of shooting is precisely the average amount of shooting that you can expect of any Eldar firepower vehicle that you can field.
Basically, under 2k points you can field up to three firepower tanks (Falcons/Prisms/Shadow Weawers/Warp Hunters), filling 3 HS slots (Wave Serpents really don't count as firepower units in my opinion). Now, most decent armies out there would have more than enough anti-vehicle firepower to reliably kill one AV12 HP3 tank per turn. This means that on average you'll likely get 1 turn of shooting out of 1 vehicle, 2 turns out of the other and 3 out of the third one, averaging 2 turns per vehicle.

Of course it's a very rough approximation, but I believe that across a number of games it would be pretty spot on. At least in my games, almost no matter what army I face, the only vehicles that live past turn 3 are the ones that my opponent basically doesn't care about.

Thus I'd say that though Nightwing is certainly a poor value for points, it's about just as poor as all other eldar vehicles are. The Forge World just wants to keep things consistent :D

[Skandar]

What is really interesing: The forgeworld Night Spinner had a transport of 6. But with the FW FAQ it no longer is Transport.

Now the Rulebook has the GW Night Spinner at Transport. Though probably a typo...here's hoping!

Question is, would you WANT it to be a transport. IIRC Night Spinners can't hover, so the only way down is in flames.

[Defenestratus]

Great so i get 2 turns of shooting oit of my 145 point choice? And this assumes the enemy have no interceptor weapons

So - I've actually used the nightwing now in two games, and not only has it absolutely murdered my opponent, it hasn't died.

I don't know if its the list I'm using but it hardly even gets attention.

[Defenestratus]

Question is, would you WANT it to be a transport. IIRC Night Spinners can't hover, so the only way down is in flames.

I think you have your vehicles mixed up.

The Night Spinner is the fast skimmer artillery tank which is the disputed transport as well.

The Nightwing is the zooming flier with no hover mode.

[Skandar]

Oops, so I am.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Heh.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3eq9oV5QB1qcpel0.jpg

[SeekingOne]

So - I've actually used the nightwing now in two games, and not only has it absolutely murdered my opponent, it hasn't died.

I don't know if its the list I'm using but it hardly even gets attention.

Could you be so kind to share your list and general tactics with us?

[Lost Vyper]

Hi!

First time posting here, but here it goes anyway. ;)
I´ve been playing WH40K about 3-4 years CSM mainly, but i switched to Eldar in the beginning of this year and i´m loving the 6th edition! I usually go against BA and 9 times out of 10 got my butt handed to me. Then arrived the 6th edition and it´s a whole new ballgame! Now the games are super tight and more entertaining. New missions and rules just got better. We even got our friend buying the SW -army after few games of the 6th edition (he wasn't feeling the 5th) ! I love Eldrad and the Pathfinders, but carry the DA´s for troop choices also. Banshees got weaker, so i got SS & FD for my basic elite choices now. I dont know, why people are disliking the WW`s? i just got 3 more of those bad boys and i got 2 x 3 combination in my heavy support. Jink 5+ on the WS`s is like permanent smoke on a rhino, except the Energy shield has saved my troops almost 80% of the time.
Necrons...they got BAAAAAADDDDD...my friend just got few of those new chariots...hmmm...i haven't played against him for a while, but the BA player got shredded to pieces, so i´m contemplating my list against him as we speak.

Nice conversation going back and forth over here, keep those good ideas coming!

The Lost Vyper

[Warpspider89]

Yes, the exact wording of the rule as amended by the FAQ gives Harlequins Stealth, Shrouded and spotting distance. That is how it is written, until it is FAQd otherwise that is how it works.

It has been faq'ed now in 1.1 to read:

Shadowseer, Viel of Tears
Replace the ENTIRE entry with "The Shadowseer and her unit have the Stealth and Shrouded special rules".

No more stealth, shrouded, and spotting distance :(

[Spamthulhu]

In second edition they had an identical profile to the Storm Bolter IIRC, they should have just kept it at that in third.

Actually it was almost identical to the bolter.

Str 4 Rapid fire range 12/24" -2 save.

This was the biggest failure in design that happened between 2nd and 3rd. They seemed to want to make eldar different and more mobile with the assault weapon so they made them assault. Shorting the range to 12 inches made the average guardian useless. Heck, in 2nd they could still have lasguns. That would still be preferable as a troop choice. At leas they would be cheap and able to shoot 24 inches.

[SaganGree]

Actually it was almost identical to the bolter.

Str 4 Rapid fire range 12/24" -2 save.

This was the biggest failure in design that happened between 2nd and 3rd. They seemed to want to make eldar different and more mobile with the assault weapon so they made them assault. Shorting the range to 12 inches made the average guardian useless. Heck, in 2nd they could still have lasguns. That would still be preferable as a troop choice. At leas they would be cheap and able to shoot 24 inches.

I think you may have the range wrong for second... as I recall it was 24" STR 4 Sustained Fire (d6 with 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, jam)

I would like to point out though that while the profile of the bolter has not changed since Third, the rules that bolters use has changed each edition making them more powerful each new edition.

Rapid Fire - Bolters
3rd - Stationary - 1 shot 24", 2 shot 12" - all must within 12" to double tap - Move - 1 Shot 12"
4th - Stationary - 1 shot 24", 2 shot 12" - all must within 12" to double tap (I believe this was still in effect) - Move - 2 Shot 12"
5th - Stationary - 1 shot 24", 2 shot 12" - measure range for each model - Move - 2 shot 12"
6th - 1 shot 24" , 2 shot 12" - no shooting restrictions
Cannot assault if fired

So for a while there was an actual advantage to the Shuriken Cat in 3rd, on par with the bolter in 4th, and then 5th on became sub par.

[Romwe]

I miss the JAM dice from 2nd Ed. Would love to see them come back.

[Spamthulhu]

I think you may have the range wrong for second... as I recall it was 24" STR 4 Sustained Fire (d6 with 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, jam)

I would like to point out though that while the profile of the bolter has not changed since Third, the rules that bolters use has changed each edition making them more powerful each new edition.

Rapid Fire - Bolters
3rd - Stationary - 1 shot 24", 2 shot 12" - all must within 12" to double tap - Move - 1 Shot 12"
4th - Stationary - 1 shot 24", 2 shot 12" - all must within 12" to double tap (I believe this was still in effect) - Move - 2 Shot 12"
5th - Stationary - 1 shot 24", 2 shot 12" - measure range for each model - Move - 2 shot 12"
6th - 1 shot 24" , 2 shot 12" - no shooting restrictions
Cannot assault if fired

So for a while there was an actual advantage to the Shuriken Cat in 3rd, on par with the bolter in 4th, and then 5th on became sub par.

I can go pull out my rules and codex. Shuriken Catapult wasn't sustained. That was the cannon. The only difference with the bolter and catapult was the save modifier.

Sustained dice were fun though. I liked when they got rid of jams. Hated jams. Then they added Gets Hot and I shook my head.

I still have all of my 2nd Ed rules and codices. I had marines, Angels of death, and Eldar codices.

[Spamthulhu]

I think you may have the range wrong for second... as I recall it was 24" STR 4 Sustained Fire (d6 with 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, jam)

I would like to point out though that while the profile of the bolter has not changed since Third, the rules that bolters use has changed each edition making them more powerful each new edition.

Rapid Fire - Bolters
3rd - Stationary - 1 shot 24", 2 shot 12" - all must within 12" to double tap - Move - 1 Shot 12"
4th - Stationary - 1 shot 24", 2 shot 12" - all must within 12" to double tap (I believe this was still in effect) - Move - 2 Shot 12"
5th - Stationary - 1 shot 24", 2 shot 12" - measure range for each model - Move - 2 shot 12"
6th - 1 shot 24" , 2 shot 12" - no shooting restrictions
Cannot assault if fired

So for a while there was an actual advantage to the Shuriken Cat in 3rd, on par with the bolter in 4th, and then 5th on became sub par.

I can look it up and post the old rules but I am pretty sure the Shuriken Cat didn't have a sustained dice. The cannon had the sustained dice.

Assault cannons used a few of those dice and were crazy strong in the day. The only down side was the jamming and catastrophic failure.

The original bolt gun was str 4 range 12" 2 shots range 13-24" -1 to hit 1 shot (rapid fire) with a -1 armor save.

The only difference i remember between the Shuriken Cat and the Bolter was the save.

[Spamthulhu]

I can look it up and post the old rules but I am pretty sure the Shuriken Cat didn't have a sustained dice. The cannon had the sustained dice.

Assault cannons used a few of those dice and were crazy strong in the day. The only down side was the jamming and catastrophic failure.

The original bolt gun was str 4 range 12" 2 shots range 13-24" -1 to hit 1 shot (rapid fire) with a -1 armor save.

The only difference i remember between the Shuriken Cat and the Bolter was the save.


My memory was incorrect. They did have a sustained fire dice. Been a while since I cracked my 2nd ed open :)

[Wildcard]

Stormbolter should get a change in design philosophy..