Dark Eldar in 6th

[eldargal]

I've written a few times that I think DE are going to be hit hard by 6th until they get a FAQ, reading the rules again and seeing what some other people are saying on other forums I may have been too hasty. So I've written out a few thoughts below:

Flickerfields: with all skimmers getting the 5+ cover save Jink rule, FF seem to be useless. But you need to move to get jink, FF gives you a save if stationary. Could be handy for keeping an immobilised raider alive and denying kill points? It also still provides save agaisnt CC attacks and templates. FF are useful on flyers though, 5+ save against skyfire shots.

Raiders can now move 12" and fire their Dark Lance at full BS, not sure they could move more than 6" and shoot before? Trying to forget 5th, doing a good job so far. You can't disembark if a vehicle moves over 6" now, but you can move 6" after you disembark so our charge range is much the same. Our raiders can move 12", shoot their dark lance AND troops inside can snap fire and BS1. Give them a splinter rack and you can re-roll misses. This gives us a bit more damge output while increasing our mobility.

Nightshields: With premeasuring these can be used much more precisely.

FNP: as gone a 1/2 chance of ignoing a wound to 1/3, a big blow BUT it now works against AP1/2 weapons so our troops are much more durable against certain armies abundant with such weapons (GK)

Wyches: Wyches are problematic. With overwatch they will suffer casualties against most shooting BUT with the changes to defensive grenades giving them a PGL and charging from behind cover could give them a decent cover save (defensive grenades grant stealth to a unit if it is shot at by another unit with 8"). With the boost to haywire granades and the ease of striking vehicles these girls can now pop vehicles and dreadnoughts much more easily and still perhaps weather overwatch fire with a bit of luck. Still hoping the FAQ boosts them a bit but they may not be as useless as I thought.

Incubi are now just AP3, unless klaives get FAQed. Still great and likely to weather overwatch fire well, but expensive for a unit that can no longer go toe to toe with terminators.

Flyers: Our two flyers are pretty great now, only being hit on 6s apart from the quite rare skyfire ability. They can only fire two missiles a turn, though. Now that the voidraven has to move and can weather great volumes of fire while dropping its void mine actually makes said mine useful.

The Talos is still a beast, perhaps more so with the boost to monstrous creatures.

That's all I can think of at the moment, still a bit of a mixeed back but perhaps not quite as negative as intially suspected.

Edit: Beasts are still very fast and can assault through difficult terrain. Khymerae packs will be quite powerful against overwatch fire, keep them in the front to absorb wounds, pile in with the rest later.

Webway portals really seem useless now, unless FAQed to allow units to assault out of them. If so Wyches become useful again, take squads if 15 through a WWP for some more ablative wounds.

[alshrive]

how does a ravager do in the new rules? i am sure i will learn soon enough but was curious as to whether any light could be shed? how far can it move and still fire effectively?

[eldargal]

Ravager can still move 12" and fire all three weapons, HP may be a buff or a nerf depending on how you feel about them. Personally I'd say ravagers are much the same power level they were before.

[DrLove42]

I do think i'll be dropping Flickers though and using Nightshields instead. The ability to premeasure will help them.

BUT i'll still take them on fliers. They can jink and get a 5+ save to avoid fliers fire....wheras a DE flier get it without the sacrifice of BS for the next turn.

And as you say Splinterracks will make embarked troops better. And with the loss of AP2 power weapons, we might need to see dissintergrators to deal with Terminators....

WWP portal lsits have taken a boost and a nerf. You can't assault out of reserve which sucks. But you can infiltrate a hemonculus with a WWP in with mandrakes now and get it in the other half REALLY fast

[eldargal]

I'm still on the fence about FF. It will be useful against templates and CC, but the only tiem my raiders get near enough to assault ideally is when they are dropping off wyches. Do you assault the wyches or the raider? Assault the raider and the wyches charge in without overwatch so I can't see that happening much.

I just hate bringing things out of a WWP and not being able to assault right away, to me it seems asking them to be shot to pieces. I only ever bring assaulty things out of WWP so maybe I'm doing it wrong? Even a relatively durable talos I don't want floating about doing nothing for a turn while it can be shot up.:(

[alshrive]

i am dropping FF for NS as well i think (i have wrote a small 500 point ally list for DA- i have been looking for an excuse to do an army and that is it. plus i can justify to the fiancee! no darling, its not a new army- look- it's a perfectly legal expansion of my current army!) mwahahahahahaahahaha

[The Shadow King]

Wasn't there something about you can infiltrate a haemi if it joins a unit of infiltrating mandrakes? That's a boost if true.

[Krayd]

Assuming that the 'aerial assault' rule is still in effect (and it would need to be, in order for Ravagers to be as good as they were before), then would that rule override the '2 missiles' limitation on flyers, or is that limitation stated in the rulebook to be in place regardless of how many weapons the flyer can fire that turn?

[Krayd]

I'm still on the fence about FF. It will be useful against templates and CC, but the only tiem my raiders get near enough to assault ideally is when they are dropping off wyches. Do you assault the wyches or the raider? Assault the raider and the wyches charge in without overwatch so I can't see that happening much.

I just hate bringing things out of a WWP and not being able to assault right away, to me it seems asking them to be shot to pieces. I only ever bring assaulty things out of WWP so maybe I'm doing it wrong? Even a relatively durable talos I don't want floating about doing nothing for a turn while it can be shot up.:(

Well, it would make pinning more important (which would probably have to be done via bladevanes or necrotoxin missiles. Unfortunately, everything that I have read seems to indicate that pinning is no easier to accomplish than it was before.

Without the ability to assault, I would guess that reaver jetbikes will be the best unit to come out of a WWP. The Talos does have some formidable shooting options, so that could be feasible. It's unfortunate that they never specifically allowed venoms to come out of the WWP even though the fluff suggests that they are supposed to be able to.

Flickerfield is still useful, but could use a reduction to 5 pts instead of 10 (with a respective decrease in the cost of the Venom).

[MaltonNecromancer]

Flickerfields: with all skimmers getting the 5+ cover save Jink rule, FF seem to be useless. But you need to move to get jink, FF gives you a save if stationary. Could be handy for keeping an immobilised raider alive and denying kill points? It also still provides save agaisnt CC attacks and templates. FF are useful on flyers though, 5+ save against skyfire shots

I like to run a 10 woman Trueborn unit with 6 Splinter Carbines and 4 Splinter Cannon. Combined with Splinter Racks and Flickerfield, I still say Flickerfield is good in 5th.

[Quaade]

WWP wills still be a good way to drop off vulnerable shooty units for a first strike or sideshots where it realle hurts. The ability to create an attack vector at will should not be underestimated now that casualties are removed from closest to furthest.

I've always used thd WWP to enter shooty units and jetbikes and at most a single unit of wyches so there won't be that much difference for me other than my opponents will have a tougher time shielding their important dudes.

However if the WWP is FAQ'ed to allow assaults, it will be godly!

[eldargal]

Good point about reavers & WWPs.

Regarding aerial assault, it allows the vehicle to fire all its weapons, but I'm not sure it would trumpy the BRB when it says you can only fire two missiles a turn.

[The Shadow King]

Arial Assault is on 12 inches, and you have to move at least 18 if you're zooming, yes? so wouldn't come into play unless they are hovering, and why would you want your flyers hovering.

[eldargal]

Nope, flyer rules say cruising speed for flyers that zoom is 18-36 and they can fire up to four of their weapons. With aerial assault DE flyers can fire all of them which means TL splinter/SC + two dark lances + 2 missiles = 5 for the razorwing, so DE flyers are better off.

Ooh, and Reavers now get a 3++ jink save thanks to skilled rider, so that is rather nifty.

[alshrive]

reavers do seem a lot more viable imo now! i can't wait to actually get some 6th Ed games under my belt and see how it goes, first games with necrons, then maybe try this allies lark with my DE.

[DrLove42]

I like that the reavers flatout, bladevaning move is now done in the shooting phase. Means you could use the movement phase to help line up the run better, not ending up somewhere you could be assaulted

[The Shadow King]

Reavers already had a 3+ cover save in 5th when turbo boosting, the bonus is the 4+ cover save you now get when not turbo boosting, also known as blowing up tanks.

[Luke Licens]

Regarding aerial assault, it allows the vehicle to fire all its weapons, but I'm not sure it would trumpy the BRB when it says you can only fire two missiles a turn.

Specific overrules general, codex trumps BRB. Unless the BRB defines missiles as something other than weapons (which would mean they don't count against the 'weapons fired' count) then Aerial Assault overrides the 2 missile limitation from the BRB. I doubt they'll let that stand in the FAQ, but until we get the word you can still alphastrike with your DE missiles.

[eldargal]

Possibly, but the wording of aerial assault is specific to the cruising speed rules, not the new restriction on missiles. At this point I think it is one of the things needed to be FAQed, personally I agree with you but it wont stop the arguments.:(

For example, DE flyers aren't flyers in the codex, but they are in the BRB. Does the codex trump the BRB? I think not. People will apply the same logic to the new restriction on missiles.

[DrLove42]

I dunno. The only reason I ever nuked all my missiles into one target in one turn was cos the damn thing never survived long enough to shoot the rest of them off.

Now its got the survivabilty boost from being a flier, not shooting your load over the first squad you see (ooo eeerr) might not be the best tactic. Rather than overkilling one unit, weakening it enough for a unit with Power from Pain to finish it might be a better option

[Drew da Destroya]

Wasn't there something about you can infiltrate a haemi if it joins a unit of infiltrating mandrakes? That's a boost if true.

Yeah, actually... Starting your Mandrakes with a pain point gives them their shooting attack right away (plus the FNP, obviously). Could this be enough to make Mandrakes actually useable?

[eldargal]

Sadly ICs can't deploy with Infiltrators.

[Krayd]

Well, one thing that mandrakes *should* have (though I'm not actually expecting the FAQ to be kind/awesome enough to give them this) is the 'shrouded' USR.

[Anggul]

I'm going to be dropping all of my Flickerfields, so in that respect I'm quite happy as that's around 70-80pts for me to spend. I'll be taking Splinter Racks on my two Warrior Raiders now that they can move 12" and fire, so that leaves me with 50-60pts to play with. I really do hope they FAQ Klaives to be AP2, as Incubi, even though I usually go for Terminators with Wyches, should really be able to take on Terminators just purely out of principle, not to mention Artificer Armour like Sanguinary Guard.

Overwatch will hurt Wyches, but I can deal with that. They still won't be terrible. The nerf to FnP hurts like a wych though. (...okay yeah, I'm ashamed of that one. Horrifically so.) What I can't deal with is reserves not being able to do anything when they come in. Not only is that bad for Dark Eldar, but it's also pants-on-head retarded and there is no possible reason for it fluff-wise or rules-wise. On the other hand, if it's true that a lot of missions will have Night Fighting, we'll be safer as we can start more stuff on the field with less chance of being blown away, and return fire without any trouble due to army-wide Night Vision.

[deaddice]

Just had a look at the Dark Eldar FAQ

Cant assualt out of a webway portal Edit the turn you arrive
Incubi are ap 3 since klaives have their own special entry, but demi klaives can be ap 2 if they are 'clasped'

Still i not sure what class of weapon agonisers count as now?

[eldargal]

Dissapointing FAQ, just clarifies wording rather than attempting to rebalance things like the 8th ed FAQs did.

Agonisers would be power swords that wound on 4+, closest interpretation that matches what they currently do.

Ooh, except Lelith still ignores armour saves with her attacks! She may only be S3 but she looks a whole lot better now all th other PWs are AP3.:p

[deaddice]

Hmm disintegrators then to deal with those pesky terminators, also i suspect starcannons will be all more the flavour for eldar armies as well.

[eldargal]

Well disintegraotrs yes, starcannon are still too obscenely overpriced. You can get a ravager with 3 disintegrators for 105 points, on contrast a wave serpent can get a TL starcannon but its costing 125 points and only BS3.

[deaddice]

Speaking of the craftworld cousins, looking at the allies matrix i could take the Avatar in a dark eldar army, does the inspiring special rule apply to the dark eldar?

If this does not work on dark eldar fair enough but....

just to make things even more confusing Harlequins can be fielded in both the dark eldar and eldar armies so do they benefit from inspiring if they are chosen as a dark eldar elite and you have an Avatar as an ally choice ?

To me i answer should be yes it does but i know that the opposite opinion can be just as valid so i am just putting it out there.

Seems like one of those 4+ dice roll before the game with your opponent if you cant agree on it.

[DrLove42]

I like the fact the FAQ answers nothing about our acute senses

The cdoex talks about how living in a dark city helps us. Now it helps us.....reroll outflanking sides. Considering only one unit can outflank....thats just great

[DarkLink]

I really do hope they FAQ Klaives to be AP2, as Incubi


Why do you feel so entitled when they explicitly and intentionally nerfed every single power weapon in the entire game, all of which have plenty of fluff about killing terminators? Why would they ever FAQ something that's perfectly clear and obviously an intentional change?

[eldargal]

It isn't a huge nerf anyway, relying on Incubi to kill terminators was risky, dark light weapons have always been better. Of course now wyches might see more use against assault terminators, no overwatch, 4++ save and give the Hekatrix a power axe she is hitting at S5 AP2 four times on the charge.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Personal opinions:

Venoms: 2 HP? Boo. Looks like all light vehicles got this too, though.
Harlequins: Shadowseers aren't mentioned as getting the extra swanky Eldar FAQ version. What gives?
Grenades: Throw plasma in bunkers and ruins, many lols. Haywire is better now that you can throw one on the charge against a vehicle, it's a free attempt.
Flyers: Really want to try them out. Voidraven Bomb is much better now that everyone has a hard time aiming at them.
Night Vision: hilarious.
Jetbikes: Vaning on turn one.
Eldrad. Now in Every army.

[thecactusman17]

Hellions merry now be the best stock assault unit in the game for the cost. Reroll dangerous terrain failure, reroll full it partial charge rolls, extra attack at i10 and 3 s4 attacks, and they have amazing overwatch firepower too.

[thecactusman17]

Hellions are downright out-bleeping-standing. For holding an objective in cover or assaulting one, 20 hellions are going to be one of the best assault units in the game. Plus, hit and run in the first assault now makes perfect sense, because overwatch means that charging you down just gets you shot up before they attack first.

[DrLove42]

Personal opinions:

Venoms: 2 HP? Boo. Looks like all light vehicles got this too, though.
Harlequins: Shadowseers aren't mentioned as getting the extra swanky Eldar FAQ version. What gives?
Grenades: Throw plasma in bunkers and ruins, many lols. Haywire is better now that you can throw one on the charge against a vehicle, it's a free attempt.
Flyers: Really want to try them out. Voidraven Bomb is much better now that everyone has a hard time aiming at them.
Night Vision: hilarious.
Jetbikes: Vaning on turn one.
Eldrad. Now in Every army.



De dont have nightvision. They all still have Acute Senses.

Our fliers win, our vehicles hurt. No assaulting out of a Webway portal isnt good either

[Diagnosis Ninja]

De dont have nightvision. They all still have Acute Senses.

Our fliers win, our vehicles hurt. No assaulting out of a Webway portal isnt good either
Nope. It says Night Vision right next to every unit I've looked at.

Raiders become gunboats, and vehicles have a 4+ cover save while you're needing it.

Saying that vehicles are hurting is kinda moot, though, seen as everybody has suffered in that department.

As for the Webway Portal, it was fun while it lasted, but I'm sure everyone will be better off looking into an extra 15 points for Aegis Defence Lines, and making something suitably elf-y to represent them. DoW2 Force fields anyone? While you're at it, sit Eldar Pathfinders inside, and have a laugh with your default 2+ cover save on your own objective.

Also, check out the combos you can pull out with an Eldar Farseer with the powers, depending on lucky rolls. Eldrad is worth taking so that you get the 4 powers and the redeploy, and so that whatever unit he's with can get Overwatch at full BS with re-rolls to Hit.

[Anggul]

Why do you feel so entitled when they explicitly and intentionally nerfed every single power weapon in the entire game, all of which have plenty of fluff about killing terminators? Why would they ever FAQ something that's perfectly clear and obviously an intentional change?

Mainly just because they're big two-handed things, I figured they'd count as two-handed power axes but without unwieldy due to being two-handed, their design, and wielded by Incubi. They're close, but with nerfed AP.

I think the power weapon changes are one of very few bad things in the new ruleset. They were fine as they were and didn't need changing at all. All it does is make shooting even better than close combat and make Terminators better when they were already fine. Also power mauls are generally rubbish thus Chaplains just got crippled. A power weapon which isn't even AP3 is pathetic, because the fact is a lot of the armies are Space Marines, and not being able to ignore their basic troop armour on a combat-focussed HQ is just sad. I'm pretty certain that a Crozius Arcanum can smash through power armour.

But that's just a problem with the overall rules, not this FAQ specifically.

[DrLove42]

Nope. It says Night Vision right next to every unit I've looked at.



Yeah for some reason i've had a fart brain moment and decided it said Acute Senses....

That helps me more in my DE appreciation...Necrons won't want Nightfighting if it actual inconviences them, not us :P

[DarkLink]

Mainly just because they're big two-handed things, I figured they'd count as two-handed power axes but without unwieldy due to being two-handed, their design, and wielded by Incubi. They're close, but with nerfed AP.

Ah, I see. GW intentionally nerfed every single power weapon in the entire game, but obviously it shouldn't apply to your army:p;).

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Yeah for some reason i've had a fart brain moment and decided it said Acute Senses....

That helps me more in my DE appreciation...Necrons won't want Nightfighting if it actual inconviences them, not us :P
Night Vision and Acute Senses used to be the same special rule, around the time of the 4th/5th edition switch over. I think they just kept the wording for the whole thing. With the new changes to Night Vision though, and the fact it turns up in all of the default missions in the book, it might actually do something nowadays haha.

[Skari]

DE are still amazing, I cant wait to explore all the awesome options available to the army. ATM to get into the 6th ed mood I have reinstated my razorwing, and taken a jetbike farseer with awesomerunes of anti psykerness, he runs with some reaver jetbikes. And then some pathfinders. At larger games im thinking of a fireprism and then another ravager, or chronos.

All in all I am personally really happy about 6th ed, and cant wait to milk every aspect of it as a strategist.

[The Sovereign]

No assaulting from WWPs is ignorant. Not even open to debate. That better get FAQ'd, and quick.

No viable assault against terminator/artificer armor, especially with Incubi, is also stupid.

Everything else I can deal with.

[Skari]

Incubi were never good at taking termies out in the first place! Unless you wanted them ded.

[deaddice]

The power weapon nerf seems to be applied to just about all powe weapons but in my opinion one of the reasons why its AP3 is to balance out the fact ap two weapons get bonuses to the dmg chart on vehicles.

Just imagine a unit of incubi with two pain tokens they charge a tank they would be str 5 with decent chances to wreck the vehicle in CC or make it blow up with AP 2 adding that extra something.

Still it makes taking out terminators in close combat a nightmare unless you have rending and they real danger to terminators in close combat for me was always their fists.

Still the one thing that cheeses me off is that the balancing seems to ignore terminators with lightning claws, since they wont be striking last any army which does not have their own 2+ armour troops is going to struggle with them in CC unless they have a monstrous creature or a bunch of rending attacks.....

hmm welcome back to the table harlequins, talos and chrons.

Also this is good for nids i guess.

[Archon Charybdis]

One thing I haven't seen anybody bring up is the idea of Disintegrators on Ravagers now. I'm considering converting one of mine, because AP2 shooting is a lot more important and I expect we're going to see fewer vehicles anyway now that transports are assault preventing passenger shaking death traps.

[eldargal]

Exactly! Incubi are still fantastic for killing power armour, wyches still make great tarpits and AP2 darklight weapons are still the best way of burninating terminator.

Incubi were never good at taking termies out in the first place! Unless you wanted them ded.

Archon Charybdis, doesn't the Ravager rule let you swap out some dark lances for disintegrators or is that the razorwing? Either way I'm fairly sure you can have a mix.

[The Sovereign]

I just realized how deep the rumored poster boy-ism will run with Dark Angels in 6th Edition. Can you imagine DE (or any xenos) trying to fight a Deathwing army now?

[eldargal]

Disintegrators, blasters, wyches with power axe hekatrices, lots and lots of splinter fire.

[deaddice]

Converting for power axes now seems to be a thing that might become common now, since its the only way to get AP 2 in CC without being a MC or being a special char.

Still i assume GW took this into account by giving them the unwieldy rule.

Feels rather weird seeing the swift and agile dark eldar striking last.

[thecactusman17]

Ravagers can switch out any of their lances with disintigrators on a one for one basis.

In my game earlier tonight, I realized that Dark Eldar need to be far more aggressive now than ever before. While my Hellions stood out of cover, hoping to avoid overwatch from not one but two packs of Grey Hunters, my opponent ran a surviving flamer from the back forward and cooked off several from the side, almost forcing a morale check. Thankfully, I still had enough left to subsequently flatten him in that area--until his THIRD drop pod full of Hunters and some outflanking Wolf scouts came down, finishing off my unit.

[Krayd]

Some random observations/musings.

Units that have to make an emergency disembarkation can't perform any voluntary actions that turn - this would include overwatch. Granted, it's very situational... but coordinated close range anti-armor shooting plus assaulting(either with the shooting unit or another one) is nice work if you can get it.

I'm slightly disappointed that units that are pinned are still able to fire on overwatch. Makes gravtalons/necrotoxin slightly less useful as an assault set-up tactic. Well, at least you can still charge pinned units in cover without getting your initiative knocked down to 1.

Jump infantry can only dish out impact hits if they only moved 6" or less in the movement phase. So, I'm not sure exactly how often I'm going to be taking advantage of this, as generally one tries to move their jump infantry their maximum distance just so that they can be in assault range.

I foresee lots of Archons with shadowfield and poweraxe. Additional options will likely include either a soul trap, or an AP3 close combat weapon to use on 3+ armor or worse at normal initiative (while still getting +1 A from having a 2nd CCW). Luckily, I have a converted figure (that used to be my punisher Archon from 3rd-4th ed) with a halberdlike weapon which will serve nicely.

Mindphase gauntlets, Vexator Masks, and electrocorrosive whips will make for good challenge weapons. Or rather,they will make good "I'm going to make your character as inneffectual as possible, even if I can't kill him" weapons.

Mandrakes suck even worse now, lacking the ability to assault the opponents backline when outflanking... which is the only thing that I have ever used them for with any luck. Nightfiends, being characters, will get precision S4 attacks, but every units' characters get precision attacks, so it's still an overuse of points. They MIGHT (and that's a big MIGHT) be a bit more worthwhile while nightfight is in effect.

Pretty disappointed that huskblades were not made AP2. That's an incredibly hefty cost for a weapon that is only AP3.

Still not particularly worried about Termies though. My most common means of dealing with them before this was splintering them to death via concentrated spinter fire. That... doesn't change.

[The Sovereign]

Also, I'm convinced the WWP nerf was a calculation by GW to sell more raiders. ;)

[Krayd]

Also, I'm convinced the WWP nerf was a calculation by GW to sell more raiders. ;)

Well, then they should have made it possible for raiders to come out of the WWP! :P

[The Shadow King]

Converting for power axes now seems to be a thing that might become common now, since its the only way to get AP 2 in CC without being a MC or being a special char.

Still i assume GW took this into account by giving them the unwieldy rule.

Feels rather weird seeing the swift and agile dark eldar striking last.

Umm, just take a Incubi champ with demi klaives if you want AP2 in assault, 4 attacks on the charge, WS6, S5, I6 AP2 if I recall correctly. Disintergrators are better at taking care of termies anyway as others have said.

[Anggul]

Umm, just take a Incubi champ with demi klaives if you want AP2 in assault, 4 attacks on the charge, WS6, S5, I6 AP2 if I recall correctly. Disintergrators are better at taking care of termies anyway as others have said.

Klaivexes are, sadly, just a points sink. Also, why would you charge a full squad of Incubi at Terminators when only the Klaivex can actually do anything? With the utterly pointless power weapons nerf which benefits only Marines and pretty much no-one else, we now need to deal with Terminators with either Wyches or firepower. Incubi are for power armour only now, apparently the metal that Terminator armour is made of is immune to giant power Klaives, but an axe can get through it just fine. Seriously, the stupid new power weapon rules are pretty much the only thing I hate about 6th ed.

[eldargal]

I disagree, actually. The power weapon benefits Dark Eldar by boosting the usefullness of some special characters and benefits Eldar by boosting survivability of Phoenix Lords. I actually like it, god knows 2+ saves aren't exactly common and AP2 (ranged) weaponry isn't rare. If you were relying on melee to kill terminators before you were taking a mighty risk in my opinion.

Honestly apart from the WWP (which was never by favourite build anyway, but it was fluffy and nice) I think DE have come out of 6th really, really well. Better than Craftworld Eldar, but their book is older so that is hardly unexpected.

[WickedGood]

1. Dark Eldar really benefit from Eldar allies. I have been taking Eldrad, a wraithlord, and 5 rangers as allies at 1850. Eldrad fulfills a huge niche on our army. The psychic defense is immense. I have put a wound on one of their characters each time the actually tried to cast. Also taking divination really helps. That 2+ save on his terminators getting you down? Misfortune him and then unload massive amounts of poisoned shots. Now it's like he is standing there in power armor.

2. Dark Eldar bikes got much better. 48" range, 4+ invulnerable is moving normally, 3+ if turbo boosting and then a 5+ as soon as you get a pain token on them.

3. Our flyers live for more than 1 round! It is actually fun to have them on the board zooming around. One note other flyers drop them out of the sky quick though. I don't think the flicker field is worth it any more. The ability to evade for a 5+ fu;lfils this just fine and I have found that once the get enough hits on you your going to have trouble shooting the next round anyway. The night shield did come in handy a couple of times though.

I am still working on positioning and how that works with cover saves. I keep end up giving him 2-3 models out in the open as the nearest targets before he has to shoot the guys in cover. I think this is going to be a huge change.

[helvexis]

Disintegrators, blasters, wyches with power axe hekatrices, lots and lots of splinter fire.

on this i made a full all out splinter list against a mates deathwing army with 26 hamminators in 5th.

it didnt work i had 3 venoms with 2 Scannon nd 2 Scarbine trueborn squads, 3 5 man scourge with 2 Scannons a warrior squad or 2 in raiders with splinter racks and a 20man warrior squad with the duke, S2 cannons and 2 razorwings with dissintegrators, 4 missiles and a Scannon.

he had 5 squads of hammer shield terminators with a cyclone missile launcher, belial and 3 bikes for the scout deathwing assault with the first turn he got :/

i just didnt have enough shots to kill them all in time.
just couldnt do it :/ scourge were the best unit of the game along with trueborn in venoms.

what you say is true they are our only options really ... but weight of fire from poison wont be able to do it on its own.
i think beastmaster squads with razorwing flocks will be alot more common say 1master with 3-5 khymarae and the rest with as many flocks as you can afford.

i am Really looking forward to doing a jetbike/venom army with an allied bike farseer and some guardian bikes and shining spears and vipers.

[eldargal]

Darklight is the main thing, splinter fire is for mopping up survivors. Void raven with its AP2 lances, relative immunity to their fire and AP implosion missiles also a plus. Regardless unusually terminator heavy lists like Deathwing will still cause us issues.

[helvexis]

yeah voidravens look more and more likely to take with the voidbomb and likely to survive more than 1 turn to fire implosion missiles ... im almost tempted to take 4 of them now but then again it is an 11/11/10 vehicle that costs more than a landraider :/

[eldargal]

It's an 11/11/10 vehicle can only be hit on 6s and gets 5+ cover save and 5++ save and with nightshields reduced range further too.;)

[helvexis]

oh yeah it is awesome no doubts there but i could just take 2 naked ones for 5pts more without missiles but thats ok 2 bombs and 4 s9 lances ...

meanwhile fast attack slots just became great deciding between reavers and beastmasters :)

not sure if i will go back to a hybrid shooting with combat support yet as it looks like i may need some if for no other reason than to just slow things up now and again

[eldargal]

Someone on Warseer was saying Hellions are now utterly brilliant too.

[thecactusman17]

Helvexis, it's worth noting that the same setup would now utterly dominate said Deathwing list. The new wound allocation means that things would start dying quickly, and the potential allies addition could end up essentially doubling the saves your opponent has to make.

[Skari]

I'm loving the power spear.

[rizhail]

On the topic of power weapons: a thought occurred to me. If I'm reading the entry properly, a Succubus can take 2 power weapons ('a succubus can exchange her close combat weapon and/or splinter pistol for the following' is the wording I think; codex is out of hand at the moment). Two power weapons is 30 pts. Instead of the old 'agoniser, blast pistol, haywire' combo, take a 'twin power weapons and haywire' combo for similar cost. Model one power weapon as a power axe, model the other as one of the remaining three PW types. A sword is nice and balanced, while a spear provides an excellent weapon for the charge, and a mace is for lower AP enemies (charging a horde of orks, for instance). You can use the axe against tough stuff, and switch to the other weapon for things that don't need the high AP.

What do you all think?

[helvexis]

ah yeah id forgotten about the new allocating ... that would make it alot easier.

yes helions look like they became very good and the ability to drag an independant character out of a unit might be really useful if people are putting 2+ guys at the front.

i think its replace pistol with blast pistol and replace ccw with pw, agonizer, venom blade with the option to replace ccw and pistol for any of the wych weapons.

power spear on a jetbike charging in to help wyches may be almost an idea and it will look cool :) ... or you could just take a unit of shining spears :)

shame about the mandrakes becoming even more useless but i didnt use them anyway.

pretty much everything in our FA slot got a good buff im really liking this

[rizhail]

I just double checked, and the entry does indeed say 'replace close combat weapon and/or splinter pistol with:', as does the Archon's entry. Unless there's something else in the rules against taking two of the same close combat weapon, Succubi and Archons can take two different power weapons.

Now, I don't have the rulebook yet (despite pre-ordering, the dang thing is still working its way through the postal service), so I only have what's been posted on the net to work with, but it seems like a Succubus w/ two PWs and haywires wouldn't be too bad as a Wych cult HQ (neglecting for the moment whether a wych cult is all that effective given the new rules for overwatch and what not). 100 pts gets you 5 attacks base at WS 8 with the ability to switch between two different weapon profiles, grenades for use in the shooting phase (unless I'm misunderstanding the new rules about throwing 'nades), and all the usual Wych abilities (Drugs, 4++ save in assault, etc). Not too shabby.

Now if only GW had the decency to allow Wychs' Dodge saves to apply vs. Overwatch shooting.

[Quaade]

As for the Webway Portal, it was fun while it lasted, but I'm sure everyone will be better off looking into an extra 15 points for Aegis Defence Lines, and making something suitably elf-y to represent them.


The WWP is not dead, it's just different, I've had great succes with mine to get fields of fire my opponent didn't expect as well as become able to reach out and touch someone anywhere on the table with my Reavers and then get the hell out of dodge again.

As for mandrakes, I freaking love them, I've had them in two games now and both times they have been gamewinners.
First turn apply Hemo to them for pain token, then blast something to bits, if they get charged they actually have a decent chance to put out hurt due to sheer amount of fire.
They are also one of the few DE units who doesn't fear template weapons due to their invulnerable save and they are not bad in assault themselves either with S4 and 2 base attacks.

[eldargal]

The problem with mandrakes isn't so much that they are bad (though that is a matter of opinion, I've found them useful myself) but that they compete with Incubi, Bloodbrides and Grotesques for an elite spot. Also wracks if you don't take a haemonculus. Bloodbrides are really the ultimate target or attack spammer, Incubi mince MEQ, Grotesques are pretty much the most durable thing we have and wracks can be a really tough objective holding unit. Mandrakes in contrast can be good at disruption if you're lucky, with characters not being able to infiltrate with them they aren't as great as they used to be. Still I suppose you could bring them out of a WWP with a haemonculus and start frying stuff with S4 balefire fairly quickly.

[daboarder]

Hmm I think I like the idea of power spears on Helliarch's gives the unit a nice punch and you can HnR to prevent yourself being locked in combat.

[Havik110]

Someone on Warseer was saying Hellions are now utterly brilliant too.
hellions are some of my favorite units but the fact that you have to take a character to make them viable hurts them...

In 6th focus fire is going to hurt them since if you take a big squad its hard to get them all into cover...

I used to love bringing them out of the portal and then shooting the hell out of a unit with 40 splinter shots and then assaulting with 30 more shots...(they really need to faq the portal)...

They also as troops with the baron sit on an objective and go to ground to hold it quite nicely... They are better in 6th IMO because when they go to ground they can snap fire and with 42 shots you can make some wounds...

Hammer of wrath is a trap for them...its an extra 20 hits or so but they are not an assault unit, with good FnP, they die in droves and they only have access to 1 Power weapon...

they are great for clearing a horde with 40 splinter shots and maybe Hammer of wrath and then 30 attacks with whatever drug you rolled (what happens when you have fleet and are jump troopers?) but I have bounced them off of terminators and lost them all...

a fun unit, a fantastic looking unit on the table, a good unit for holding objectives for DE, but they can be a trap

[Autarch]

power spear on a jetbike charging in to help wyches may be almost an idea and it will look cool :) ... or you could just take a unit of shining spears :)

I just got my rulebook today, and I've been thumbing through it looking for the rules for the power spear and the counts-as-modeling rules (if it has a power axe its a power axe). Could someone hook me up with a page number?

EDIT- My bad I found it. And it couldn't have been more obvious in its location. Sorry!

[thecactusman17]

Fleet jump troops get the benefit of rerolling charge distance after moving 12". So instead of choosing one or the other you get both. However, you won't get impact hits if you charge with fleet.

[Skari]

I havent tried out the hellions yet but I will bring them to the table as soon as the meta begins to shift away from tanks.

[Archon Charybdis]

I've played two games with my Hellions allied into my Eldar army, and unfortunately the changes in cover mechanics really hurt them :-\ It's hard to get an entire unit (and I only run 15) into cover, and even with the Baron your typical save will be a 4+ cover now instead of 3+.

[eldargal]

I've made a Wych cult list for 6th, posted it here (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=23227). I've not tested it out yet but the idea is to use lots of haywire grenades (it's only 1000pts so no Scourges) to replace dark lance spam we used to need for vehicles. Lot of hydra gauntlets thrown in to make stuff die and a Razorwing to pewpew flyers and shoot the odd S6 pie plate.

Thoughts? Is replacing dark lance spam with haywire spam viable do you think? etc.

[thecactusman17]

I still take a few dark lances to help deal with some of the nastier vehicles, such as Hellhounds, Land Raider Redeemers, etc. I run mine on Razorwings or Voidravens to help as anti-air as well.

[Uncle Nutsy]

I stuck 12 hellions in cover (inside a building), got a nice 4+ cover save from everything shooting, even a landraider.. waited for it to disembark its' troops... and then used the hellions to cut down the khorne marines that poured out.

[darthken]

i think scourges have become a much more viable option to. i run this combo on the weekend and after the 1st round of shooting he was targeting them instead of my ravagers with tank killing weaponry

10 scourges 4 haywire blasters, start with a naked heamy to give them pain put them next to the cheesy farseer option, hit them with guide and fortune 3+ to hit with re-rolls, that glance on2's while re-rolling AS and all though i didn't try it you could buy a defence line and start them behind that as well

from what i can see unless you roll absolute c**p you should be popping 1 vehicle a turn.

[WickedGood]

i think scourges have become a much more viable option to. i run this combo on the weekend and after the 1st round of shooting he was targeting them instead of my ravagers with tank killing weaponry

10 scourges 4 haywire blasters, start with a naked heamy to give them pain put them next to the cheesy farseer option, hit them with guide and fortune 3+ to hit with re-rolls, that glance on2's while re-rolling AS and all though i didn't try it you could buy a defence line and start them behind that as well

from what i can see unless you roll absolute c**p you should be popping 1 vehicle a turn.

Unfortunately these two powers do not affect Dark Eldar Units. You must cast the at Eldar units. But no fear, use divination and take the primaris power for reroll all to hit rolls.

[WickedGood]

So the thing that I believe changes the DE the most is Eldar allies. I no longer think that I play Dark Eldar or Craftworld Eldar. I now just play Eldar. I will take allies in almost every army now as they two armies complement each other so well.

I am currently 5-1 with my Dark Eldar with Eldar allies. The psychic defense of a farseer is unbelievable and Eldrad is truly amazing. I have been playing divination and throwing out two super guides and a misfortune lets my 4+ poison shots work through just about any infantry unit. Here are the units I have been very impressed with so far:

1. Reaver jetbike. I have been taking two units of 9. with an effective rang of 24" on their bladevane attack it makes them very good at damaging enemies while ver tough to engage in hth.

2. Flyers - Our flyers are now durable and accurate and a reasonably good defense against other flyers.

3. Hellions. I have been playing the baron but the hellions manuevarability is very good now. The comments about cover are definitely true though and I tend to lose a couple of models outside of cover.

I think that some other units have some big potential I just haven't played with them yet.

Night Vision ignore the necron night fight is HUGE.

Being able to glance vehicles to death is HUGE.

Being able to challenge with your 2++ character who hits first his HUGE.

[Drake118]

Eldar Jet Bikes turbo boost 36", so you have an effective 36" range on your bladevanes...

[Aramel]

Also the new terrain rules state that open ground cannot be affected by terrain modifying special rules. So necron NF can no longer force difficult terrain tests on open ground.

[Filthspew]

I saw that flying MC was mentioned as a DE problem.

Reavers turbo boost over them, auto hit and cause grounded test, hopefully adding wounds.

With cluster caltrops, 9 reavers do 7,25w on T6. Better than 10 Kabalite rapid fire (6,70)!

Biggest problem is they do not loose hard to hit from being grounded.

But if the faq does not fix that, I will eat my 6th ruletbook in anger :mad:

Also a comment on previous post, FF gives you a save in cc. Jink does not.

The 5 wyches with haywire in venom could be a good variation against armor.

If they leave them, they will kill more, if not its a soft 60pts unit that draws resources.

Why get one when you can have two for double the price :)

We still need lances though, as you can not shoot the guys inside before next turn if you pop the transport in cc.

[Nachodragon]

Also the new terrain rules state that open ground cannot be affected by terrain modifying special rules. So necron NF can no longer force difficult terrain tests on open ground.

The two things in the Necron Codex that affected open ground are the Cryptek tremorstave and Orikan. Tremorstave still works as Codex overrules BRB and Orikan doesn't state anything about open ground.

Also, the rule is talking about rules that target terrain pieces, as open ground is not an actual piece of terrain, whatever rule is affecting the terrain would not affect open-ground as it is not actually terrain.

[Skari]

I'm loving readers. My razorwing is just as good, and interestingly enough my wyches have become a main at option with the haywires.