Tau Tactica: a 6th edition

[gcsmith]

Wanted to open up this post,

Tomorrow we all get our 6th edition books, well those who preordered and buy it, and I wanted to open up discussion for Tau talk, tactica and otherwise.

Obviously we still have the FAQ to wait for, which if like 8th fantasy goes up 12:01 AM.

Now What I want to say, the rumors give me great hope. I dare to dream Tau will be better in 6th edition, and thats without endless battlesuits.

Obviously, I need to get the rulebook before I make any true decisions.

So what are your opinions on it?

[DrLove42]

Some opf the rumours are looking better

Rapidfire changes make Fire Warriors better, as does Reaction Shots. I'll hope for some wargear that can allow them to overwatch/snap fire at full BS

Nightfighting vision (Blacksun Filters) seem to be likely ignore Night Fighting all together, making them an essential buy consdering the rise of nightfighting

Battlesuits moving 2D6 in the assault phase will be pretty good too

Also the deployment type that plays table length ways has to be good for 72" railguns

On the downside....no physic defense or assault and with overwatch Kroot are majorly screwed as an assault choice. No aircraft yet either

[gcsmith]

Some opf the rumours are looking better

Rapidfire changes make Fire Warriors better, as does Reaction Shots. I'll hope for some wargear that can allow them to overwatch/snap fire at full BS

Nightfighting vision (Blacksun Filters) seem to be likely ignore Night Fighting all together, making them an essential buy consdering the rise of nightfighting

Battlesuits moving 2D6 in the assault phase will be pretty good too

Also the deployment type that plays table length ways has to be good for 72" railguns

On the downside....no physic defense or assault and with overwatch Kroot are majorly screwed as an assault choice. No aircraft yet either

All good things, personally I think no aircraft can be a good thing, imagine at tournies, all the anti aircraft options people take will be wasted against us. Also I'm hoping markerlights can help with the Overwatch and Aircraft hitting BS.

Not to mention how Farsight got buffed, his rules specifically state he causes 2d6 + 5 AP against vehicles. Nice.

Also With rapid fire changes, I can see kroot being a fire base with krootox rather than an assault unit, I mean they can hit just as well as a fire warrior. And for their points are better than a guardsmen by miles.

[alshrive]

i am thinking that the Skyray may well have the Skyfire rule enabling it to target aircraft efficiently. i mean it is called the Skyray!

[gcsmith]

i am thinking that the Skyray may well have the Skyfire rule enabling it to target aircraft efficiently. i mean it is called the Skyray!

I agree,

I'm also looking forward to using O'Shovah, with Prefered enemy doing so good for shooting, preferred enemy against orks will be good, especially with a Fire warrior army.


I'm thinking a lot of new things will come from this.

[alshrive]

i think this will sufficiently refresh the Tau and potentially give them the boost they need so they are not a bottom tier army! I think in future that the Markerlight rules will change and they may go on to grant different USR per point expended. E.G give a unit Skyfire, or allow it to Snapfire at normal BS for example.... i must say that the idea of a Snap Firing unit of Fire warriors is actually a very off-putting thought for an Ork Charge

[gcsmith]

i think this will sufficiently refresh the Tau and potentially give them the boost they need so they are not a bottom tier army! I think in future that the Markerlight rules will change and they may go on to grant different USR per point expended. E.G give a unit Skyfire, or allow it to Snapfire at normal BS for example.... i must say that the idea of a Snap Firing unit of Fire warriors is actually a very off-putting thought for an Ork Charge

meh 6's to hit isnt scary, now if we can keep Markerlights back for snapfire bs we will own

[Drakkan Vael]

In addition, putting Tau fire warriors on a closed Skyshield Landing plattform will increase their durability a lot.

Consider building bullet shield unit additions like drones (or commanders with 2+/(4+ inv), fnp and two shield drones joined to a unit of broadsides and standing in front of them...

[gcsmith]

In addition, putting Tau fire warriors on a closed Skyshield Landing plattform will increase their durability a lot.

Consider building bullet shield unit additions like drones (or commanders with 2+/(4+ inv), fnp and two shield drones joined to a unit of broadsides and standing in front of them...

With the new wound allocation being like 3rd edition drones, I'm expecting to get drones be removed first rule back. meaning they don't need to be in front. But if not yes leave them infront.

Hoping to do some videos tomorrow on the rulebook changes as well as how Tau and Black Templar fair in the new rules :D

[TheStarkLord]

Sixth ed could do some great thins for tau. My only hope is that the faq for them doesn't suck like it normally does. As in i hope war gear that has no use under currwnt rules is modified and not just left as " yeah it does nothing".
Now to tangent... wishlisting fir a sec.
tau are supposed to be very mobile and have very good air superiority. So i hope that over the course of the new edition they get either the most or some if the btter flyer options. Flyers are a thing tau should be good at and if they ate not i'll very sad.

[DrLove42]

If FW update their flier book as expected, I can see Remora drones being quite good. 6 shots at BS3, S5 2 seeker missiles and networked markerlight. With a Stealth field, and only being hit on 6's....would make them quite hard

[gcsmith]

If FW update their flier book as expected, I can see Remora drones being quite good. 6 shots at BS3, S5 2 seeker missiles and networked markerlight. With a Stealth field, and only being hit on 6's....would make them quite hard

What Tau need is Good GW stuff, not good FW stuff. I want stuff I can use in tournaments and against all players. not stuff with permission.

[DrLove42]

I want broadsides to have an option like the Mortis Contemptor...stationary and gain AA :P

[Rudog]

I want broadsides to have an option like the Mortis Contemptor...stationary and gain AA :P

That sounds like a perfect fit for their advance stabilizer system... grant slow & purposeful or remain stationary to get AA.

[gcsmith]

That sounds like a perfect fit for their advance stabilizer system... grant slow & purposeful or remain stationary to get AA.

Would prefer it to say, Counts as using its own BS for all purposes, would make overwatch nasty

[ragnarcissist]

hopefully stealth suits will actually get stealth, or stealth AND shroud!!! has there ever been a USR given to a unit in an FAQ??

[gcsmith]

hopefully stealth suits will actually get stealth, or stealth AND shroud!!! has there ever been a USR given to a unit in an FAQ??

No idea, but since third we havn't had such a drastic change. And I started playing in third. second to third I don't think the internet existed in the way to make FAQ easily available.

So it is possible.

I found it interesting this months white dwarf featured Tau in it, especially with my store manager spouting stuff about them dropping Tau, then again he said You need to buy codex grey knights to play the SoB white dwarf dex. So I trust him as much as I trust Warseer.

[TheStarkLord]

Well the forge world stuf would be a fine addition. Alot of it is 40k approved now but gw needs to makw that clearer. They put it in a white dwarf and i think online. But that doesn't count for some reason. They need to put that forgre world models with the 40k approved stamp are ok for normal 40k in the brb or people will always do the whole "needs permission" thing.
But yeah besides fw haveing stuff gw still needs tpriduce somethig for them.

[TheStarkLord]

Getting back to tactics. I think kroot have mayne some new avenues of use. By that i mean people mivht acctually use krootox and their 48" rapid fire gun (it is 48 right? Dont have rule book with me). Could have a nice shooting bubble wrap of kroot followed by a layer of fw followed by broad sides. For a mean layer cake of shooty. :D

[gcsmith]

Getting back to tactics. I think kroot have mayne some new avenues of use. By that i mean people mivht acctually use krootox and their 48" rapid fire gun (it is 48 right? Dont have rule book with me). Could have a nice shooting bubble wrap of kroot followed by a layer of fw followed by broad sides. For a mean layer cake of shooty. :D

kroot gun is 48" and is basically a rapid fire Autocannon :D which is good.

[Rudog]

kroot gun is 48" and is basically a rapid fire Autocannon :D which is good.

True, but still just 1 shot each at a poor (and unimproveable) BS. And it's not like Krootox Riders are cheap (equivilant of 5 kroot).

Unless... has it been confirmed yet if rapid fire double tap is still 12" or half max distance? I'm assuming it's still 12", but if not... a 24" double tap high strength weapon? Might be worth it.

[gcsmith]

Aye, well Im doing several videos on 6th edition over the weekend, changes between 5th and 6th and how my two armies BT and Tau might change. Ill discuss krootox then.

[gcsmith]

Ok stealth suits got stealth and shrouding, but no AA for poor Tau, flyers are going to screw us up

[Tynskel]

Yeah, uh, skyray! Why you no have sky fire... Considering the original concept in IA:3 was AA tank...

[Tynskel]

What Tau need is Good GW stuff, not good FW stuff. I want stuff I can use in tournaments and against all players. not stuff with permission.

You don't need permission.

[gcsmith]

No skyfire, but at least stealthsuits are actually decent to use now, a character with fusion blaster and +3 to their cover save... nice


To be honest farsight leading a 7 man shas'vre unit will be a pain to kill especially with drones. MWAHAHAHA

[gcsmith]

Just want to put this video out there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncR1-q7HKk8&feature=youtu.be
When its uploaded, As I talk about changes to movement.

[Tynskel]

hmmm, I noticed that target lock was removed.

Your link doesn't work.

[gcsmith]

hmmm, I noticed that target lock was removed.

Your link doesn't work.

Cheers, and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncR1-q7HKk8&feature=youtu.be is correct link.

Shame Target lock is removed, thats the point of rail rifles. They only had to make it give the model split fire.

But it doesn't make sense, one of the unique things about Tau was being able to split fire.

BTW also have an unboxing vid here, not that anyone is interested, www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3pp-w-6EtI

Will do some Tau related vids after I finish the basic videos, one for shooting and Assault to go. And I would like questions I could answer related to Tau as well. :D

[Tynskel]

yeah, I don't know why they did that. It was good for their tanks.

Also it will make broadside worse, crisis suits worse. Farsight Super Squads will suck.

So, no AA on the AA Tank, and no Target Lock.
Here's my unboxing video: http://tinyurl.com/427n7hx

[gcsmith]

Seriously, I only did it cus I wanted to, not expecting people to watch it really. But I can see why you did i.

What I love is how we now get a T5 Ethereal, not great, but immune to Insta death nearly.

[Panxer]

I really like that Tau get a couple buffs, but I still think its pretty lack luster considering what other armies out there get.

Ok, the awesome:
XV suits are WAY more mobile now
Stealth suits actually have stealth and 'shrouded' which pretty much gives them a 3+ to whatever cover they are in (not to mention the can outflank and re-roll for which side they come in on now)
Bonding knives are awesome now
Sniper drones can allocate wounds to the opposing player on rolls to hit of 6+
Black Sun Filters ignore night fight
Marker Lights can snapfire
Decoy Launchers actually work now with hull points, causing a player to re-roll their damage
Drones can snap fire if the vehicle is stunned/shaken (whichever it is now with the damage chart)
There is a T 5 Ethereal

Now the suck:
Drones still count towards morale rolls for 25% losses (gee thanks)
Kroot are hobbled for line of sight when hiding in trees (but still keep bonuses for cover and movement)
Target locks are gone
Smart missile systems are basically junk now (being that cover can be claimed by the unit fired against)

More awesome than suck, but I still, I draw the line with the drones. It's the Tau's biggest weakness and with all the other buffs, they couldn't mitigate the drones?! Yay! Stealth suits have stealth! But I still lose a drone, will fail morale and run screaming off of the board! With all the other buffs we couldn't get T5 XV8 suits?

But my opinion is only and just that, an opinion. Taken as such.

[gcsmith]

OK sniper drones are super awesome now...

+3 to cover save

and where is it they can allocate wounds?

[soldier of the GG]

geez guys, i am new here. but i am really interested. nice vid. btw, i dont know al the short cuts, and am a bit new to tau, but i like them, and already pown my friends with them. can you guys teach me how to rule with them? and plz keep me informed about the new rules and their effects at tau, since i dont have the new rule book yet. thank you in advance.

[Yawarakaimatsuka]

Some questions :
- Where does the T5 ethereal come from?
- Since the effects of shrouded and stealth are cumulative, does it mean our stealth suits have a 4+ cover save in the open?

Some nice sides of 6th ed :
I've done some math and mounted great knarloc are now incredibly worth it. The smash, hammer of wrath, fear and fleet USR are making it an incredible beast!
Also knaroc riders are far less useless now that they have the new fleet and hammer of wrath USR, if they are assaulting they can easily get rid of a same point cost space marine tactical squad!

[Tynskel]

Aun Va is T(3)5 so now T5.

yes, to cumulative.
I don't know how the sniper drones get better. They lost Target Lock.

[gcsmith]

Aun Va is T(3)5 so now T5.

yes, to cumulative.
I don't know how the sniper drones get better. They lost Target Lock.

They now get +3 to cover save. so in ruins 2+ cover.

[DrLove42]

2 questions, concerning markerlights. FYI, i've not read rule book, only the FAQ's

1) If a Markerlight hits an aircraft, can a seeker missile still hit it on a 2+
2) If shooting at a target that has been markerlighted in snap fire AND/OR overwatch, can you be BS2?

[Tynskel]

They now get +3 to cover save. so in ruins 2+ cover.

Soooo... And you got that wrong, it is 2+ cover in everything but the open. (5+ +3 = 2+)
They sit there... but you cannot shoot 3 different ways...

[Tynskel]

2 questions, concerning markerlights. FYI, i've not read rule book, only the FAQ's

1) If a Markerlight hits an aircraft, can a seeker missile still hit it on a 2+
2) If shooting at a target that has been markerlighted in snap fire AND/OR overwatch, can you be BS2?

the issue is that the marker light only hits on a 6+. Once light up, the Missile hits on 2+.
The FAQ states that you cannot fire missiles on overwatch. I don't see why not markers. However, the only way to benefit from those marker hits is if you have a linkup (networked) for those makers.

[DrLove42]

I mean if your pathfinders laze up a target, can points be used to improve a unit thats snap shotting (stunned vehicle, fast vehicle etc)

[Tynskel]

I mean if your pathfinders laze up a target, can points be used to improve a unit thats snap shotting (stunned vehicle, fast vehicle etc)

did you read what I said? You need Networked Markers to do so.

[DrLove42]

Dont you only need networked if its the same unit firing? If its 2 seperate units (a pathfinder unit and a seperate tank) you dont need networked do you? Or has that changed?

[gcsmith]

From what I read snap shot reduces you to BS 1, then Markerlights can be used to raise your BS again. So as long as tokens exist on the target, go ahead.

[soldier of the GG]

seems normal. i agree with gcsmith

[Coyote81]

From what I read snap shot reduces you to BS 1, then Markerlights can be used to raise your BS again. So as long as tokens exist on the target, go ahead.

Based on the paragraphs in the beginning of the book. Anything the sets your stats to a value overrides everything else, unless two items set your stats, then you roll off 50/50 in that phase to see which one take precedence. Doesn't matter how many marker lights you shoot, your going to snapfire at BS1. I guess you could remove cover saves. Can pin units with overwatch either.

[WickedGood]

Frankly the big change for me is allies. I am contemplating
Eldrad with Harliquins
Mephiston with Storm shield terminators

We can finally have an answer to the assualt armies when they finally hit our lines.

Added to that Eldrad's ability to twin link our weapons and all of a sudden 2 X Guided 12 man firewarrior squads shooting a doomed unit looks pretty darn good. 36 hits, 18 wounds against T5 27 vs T4.

Then hit them with the harlies with anything that survives.

[Yawarakaimatsuka]

Frankly the big change for me is allies. I am contemplating
Eldrad with Harliquins
Mephiston with Storm shield terminators

We can finally have an answer to the assualt armies when they finally hit our lines.

Added to that Eldrad's ability to twin link our weapons and all of a sudden 2 X Guided 12 man firewarrior squads shooting a doomed unit looks pretty darn good. 36 hits, 18 wounds against T5 27 vs T4.

Then hit them with the harlies with anything that survives.

1- I don't think this Eldrad's ability can be use on anything else than eldar units.

2- I'm kinda unhappy to see that we're just an «in need of allies» army. I hope we will get some AA and some psychic able units of our own (i'm looking at you nicassar) in the futur.

3- For the time we don't have any AA, i'm gonna play my sky ray with my IA3. As long as my opponent accept Forge World units, it's perfectly legit to use it in this way.

[WickedGood]

Eldrad's psychic powers can be used by Tau.

Check out the battle brother rules.

[Tynskel]

Dont you only need networked if its the same unit firing? If its 2 seperate units (a pathfinder unit and a seperate tank) you dont need networked do you? Or has that changed?

when would you have marker tokens on a unit that is charging you?




I am pretty sure you cannot take named characters as allies. You can take them in your primary force, though.

[Smotku]

Eldrad's psychic powers can be used by Tau.

Check out the battle brother rules.

the Farseer powers of fortune and guide say eldar units so they cannot targe tau, however you can still use doom on the enemy and the far seer can give tau pschic defense

[gcsmith]

What I want to know, Markerlights vanish at the end of the TAU shooting phase. So if you try assaulting me, I stand and shoot, get a markerlight hit, and you fail to get in range. Will the token still be on in my turn?

Also on snap shots, they count your BS as 1 for those shots. Markerlights are a bonus applied afterwards. and Besides I've had to hit the flyer with the markerlight already.

[Coyote81]

What I want to know, Markerlights vanish at the end of the TAU shooting phase. So if you try assaulting me, I stand and shoot, get a markerlight hit, and you fail to get in range. Will the token still be on in my turn?

Also on snap shots, they count your BS as 1 for those shots. Markerlights are a bonus applied afterwards. and Besides I've had to hit the flyer with the markerlight already.

Read page 2 about modifiers, the markerlight modifier now applys before your BS is reduced to 1.

[gcsmith]

except that markerlights state they are applied after declaring to shoot, but before rolling to hit.

Also just noticed firewarriors can get stealth. :D

[Coyote81]

except that markerlights state they are applied after declaring to shoot, but before rolling to hit.

Also just noticed firewarriors can get stealth. :D

Good, that mean you can make yourself BS5 before overwatch reduces you to BS1.

[gcsmith]

Fair enough, but Markerlights should make it easier to hit, youve already hit it at least once, and thats their purpose.

[Yawarakaimatsuka]

Also just noticed firewarriors can get stealth. :D

I don't understand this one.

[gcsmith]

Oh, ill leave you searching for it, for now... :D

Almost ready to start planning Tau Army lists and do some videos on them. :D
Need to just do the video covering basic Assault phase.

[Panxer]

Allies? Yes. Yes, please. I know people are talking about the Eldar giving guide and doom to tau units, BUT consider this! With the new forgeworld update remote sensor towers already makes units within 6" twin linked so there goes guide, doom, yeah ok, that's pretty cool, BUT even the most basic tau weapon is S5 so we wound most basic infantry on 2's and 3's...alright, pretty good

Even better?! What do Tau lack?! Close combat! Allies...space marines right?! Specifically Blood Angels! I have two squads of SM's left from my old army and I intend to strip them and make them all into BA jump infantry troops. Throw in some sanguinary priests and you've got close combat jump infantry T4, 3+ armor, insane jump range, feel no pain, red thirst, deep strike, descent of angels, melta weapons, plasma weapons, power weapons, thunder hammers, you name it!

Just move them in and $ape face while coving from behind with suits, railguns and sniper drones...Inspired!

OOh! OOH! And since now XV25's get a 3+ cover to whatever they're in (PLUS NIGHT FIGHT RULE TO SEE THEM) you can have a 18" possible range jet pack infantry set with up to 18 burst cannon shots to help control the flanks while your red fleas are attaching melta bombs to some poor sucker's transport Squee! Every game won't be like the battle of Mogadishu now!

[Yawarakaimatsuka]

Blood angels would indeed be a great ally but I don't think XV25 still get shot at with night fight rules. Also they get a 2+ cover save in almost everything.

P.S.: gcsmith, I'm still searching the stealth thingy with excitement.

[DrLove42]

Blood angels would indeed be a great ally but I don't think XV25 still get shot at with night fight rules. Also they get a 2+ cover save in almost everything.

P.S.: gcsmith, I'm still searching the stealth thingy with excitement.

Incorrect. Stealth gens confer stealth And shrouded. These state that they stack. So 3+ to save

But no rolling distances anymore is correct

[gcsmith]

I will say this, the Tau infanty, (Firewarriors and Pathfinders) getting stealth only works if enemy are within 8" when shooting you. But otherwise they do get stealth. I will mention it in my video tomorrow if you don't get it before then.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Remoras + skyray + tetras would be perfect versus the potential IG flyer spam.

just too bad that some places would enforce permission for that.

[Jacubus]

I will say this, the Tau infanty, (Firewarriors and Pathfinders) getting stealth only works if enemy are within 8" when shooting you. But otherwise they do get stealth. I will mention it in my video tomorrow if you don't get it before then.

You mean Defensive Grenades. That's pretty cool

[WickedGood]

the Farseer powers of fortune and guide say eldar units so they cannot targe tau, however you can still use doom on the enemy and the far seer can give tau pschic defense

So I keep, doom. And then take 3 rolls on divination.

The primaris power is a better version of guide.

Misfortune could be a generic verson of null zone

Pefect timing could help some units out as well. I imagine hime standing with a unit of broadsides.

Telepathy has some nice stuff as well.

[Yawarakaimatsuka]

Incorrect. Stealth gens confer stealth And shrouded. These state that they stack. So 3+ to save

I was thinking they get 4+ in the open and 2+ in much pieces of terrain. Could someone else help us on this one?

[Straylight]

I was thinking they get 4+ in the open and 2+ in much pieces of terrain. Could someone else help us on this one?That's correct.

Stealth gives +1 to cover saves. Shrouded gives +2 to cover saves. Two two USRs stack, for a total of +3 to cover saves.

Stealth teams standing on open ground therefore have a 4+ cover save. Stealth teams in forests or similar terrain have a 2+ cover save (base 5+ from the terrain, +3 for Stealth and Shrouded). Stealth teams in ruins, buildings or fortifications also have a 2+ cover save (base 4+, 3+, or 2+ from the terrain, +3 for Stealth and Shrouded to a maximum of 2+).

Also, interestingly:

--Stealth and Shrouded are conferred on a unit so long as one model in the unit possesses them. This means that Drones attached to a Stealth Team benefit from the rule even though the Stealth Armor rules in the armory no longer specify this.

--...it also means that a Crisis Commander or Ethereal attached to a Stealth Team also gains Stealth and Shrouded.

--...and vice-versa: if Shadowsun were to join a unit (once her drones are all dead, of course), the unit she joined would gain Stealth and Shrouded. Yes, this means you have the potential of ending up with Stealth and Shrouded Broadsides.

--The rules on it are unclear, but Outflank and Infiltrate are also conferred. While Infiltrate specifies that ICs who don't possess the rule can't deploy with squads who are using it, Outflank does not appear to have any such restrictions. Unless an FAQ specifies otherwise, it looks possible to Outflank a Stealth Team with a Crisis Commander attached.

--The weapon tables in the BRB specifically take precedence over the weapon tables in the Codex. There is only one entry for Railguns in the BRB, which details both firing modes. This is an obvious oversight but it is also unambiguous: Broadsides can now fire submunition rounds from their Railguns.

[Yawarakaimatsuka]

That's correct.

Stealth gives +1 to cover saves. Shrouded gives +2 to cover saves. Two two USRs stack, for a total of +3 to cover saves.

Stealth teams standing on open ground therefore have a 4+ cover save. Stealth teams in forests or similar terrain have a 2+ cover save (base 5+ from the terrain, +3 for Stealth and Shrouded). Stealth teams in ruins, buildings or fortifications also have a 2+ cover save (base 4+, 3+, or 2+ from the terrain, +3 for Stealth and Shrouded to a maximum of 2+).

Also, interestingly:

--Stealth and Shrouded are conferred on a unit so long as one model in the unit possesses them. This means that Drones attached to a Stealth Team benefit from the rule even though the Stealth Armor rules in the armory no longer specify this.

--...it also means that a Crisis Commander or Ethereal attached to a Stealth Team also gains Stealth and Shrouded.

--...and vice-versa: if Shadowsun were to join a unit (once her drones are all dead, of course), the unit she joined would gain Stealth and Shrouded. Yes, this means you have the potential of ending up with Stealth and Shrouded Broadsides.

--The rules on it are unclear, but Outflank and Infiltrate are also conferred. While Infiltrate specifies that ICs who don't possess the rule can't deploy with squads who are using it, Outflank does not appear to have any such restrictions. Unless an FAQ specifies otherwise, it looks possible to Outflank a Stealth Team with a Crisis Commander attached.

--The weapon tables in the BRB specifically take precedence over the weapon tables in the Codex. There is only one entry for Railguns in the BRB, which details both firing modes. This is an obvious oversight but it is also unambiguous: Broadsides can now fire submunition rounds from their Railguns.

You've done a great job on the analysis of those new rules and how they affect us, it will be fun to try some of those!

[Panxer]

Blood angels would indeed be a great ally but I don't think XV25 still get shot at with night fight rules. Also they get a 2+ cover save in almost everything.

P.S.: gcsmith, I'm still searching the stealth thingy with excitement.

Yup, you're right. Night fight rolls don't exist, however I've read that shrouded gives 2+ to cover and stealth gives +1

correct me if I'm mistaken.

[gcsmith]

Correct, so you get +3 to cover save, makes stealth teams worth it in my opinion, also for sniper teams

[sarge.au]

Good, that mean you can make yourself BS5 before overwatch reduces you to BS1.

This is not what happens

1- Declare shooting with a snapshot
2- Snapshot takes you to BS1
3- Markerlights are applied AFTER shooting has been declared, but before shots are taken.
4- Shoot overwatch at higher BS.

This is how I, many Tau players on various forums and all the GW employees agree it is to be played. But if you don't want to use ML to boost overwatch shots, I won't make you.

[gcsmith]

The FAQ has proven Markerlight shots can be fired from overwatch, whats the point if you can't use the points themselves? you can't use them to fire missiles.

[sarge.au]

You can use networked markerlights to light up a target first. Also, although it is a point of contention, but markerlights stay on the target until the end of the Tau shooting phase or until removed via use, so strictly speaking, any ML shots landed in an overwatch will remain on the unit until the Tau shooting phase.

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread too, Page 2 of the Tau FAQ - Commander - Change unit type to Infantry (Jetpack, Character), same for the Shas'vre suit leaders, meaning any drone they take is also Infantry (Jetpack, Character), as per their rules on page 31 meaning they can accept and issue challenges if attached to a character.

[gcsmith]

A confusion I have with FAQ, All shas'vre are characters, but not bodyguard shas'vre.. I think thats an oversight possibly

Btw, My first Tau video will be up soon :D

[Coyote81]

This is not what happens

1- Declare shooting with a snapshot
2- Snapshot takes you to BS1
3- Markerlights are applied AFTER shooting has been declared, but before shots are taken.
4- Shoot overwatch at higher BS.

This is how I, many Tau players on various forums and all the GW employees agree it is to be played. But if you don't want to use ML to boost overwatch shots, I won't make you.

I quoted the page twice now I tyhink but here are the words from the BGB.

"Multiple Modifiers
Ia a model has a combination or rules or wargear that modify a characteristic, first apply any multipliers, then apply and additions or subtractions, and finally apply any set values."

There is even an example. So based on this, buring an overwatch you will be BS1 because that is a set modifier, and they override everything else.

Doesn't matter if everyone you know plays it wrong if the rulebook is pretty cut and clear on how it works.

[sarge.au]

A confusion I have with FAQ, All shas'vre are characters, but not bodyguard shas'vre.. I think thats an oversight possibly

Btw, My first Tau video will be up soon :D

Not an oversight. The Shas'vre leaders are characters, same as unit commanders, bodyguard shas'vre are not.

[gcsmith]

I quoted the page twice now I tyhink but here are the words from the BGB.

"Multiple Modifiers
Ia a model has a combination or rules or wargear that modify a characteristic, first apply any multipliers, then apply and additions or subtractions, and finally apply any set values."

There is even an example. So based on this, buring an overwatch you will be BS1 because that is a set modifier, and they override everything else.

Doesn't matter if everyone you know plays it wrong if the rulebook is pretty cut and clear on how it works.

sadly most rules are part of the equipment, IE think of the +1 BS upgrade suits can take.

Marker lights are not equipment they are tokens we spend as we shoot. If Markerlights did straight up BS increase for a turn I would agree. however they don't

[Coyote81]

sadly most rules are part of the equipment, IE think of the +1 BS upgrade suits can take.

Marker lights are not equipment they are tokens we spend as we shoot. If Markerlights did straight up BS increase for a turn I would agree. however they don't



"Multiple Modifiers
Ia a model has a combination or RULES or wargear that modify a characteristic, first apply any multipliers, then apply and additions or subtractions, and finally apply any set values."

Um, doesn't matter what the source is, the rules book covers that. Any modifiers..... Next your going to tell me they aren't rules.

[Tynskel]

still a set modifier. However, there are more uses for marker lights. You could always negate some cover!

[gcsmith]

No I'm not, but I fail to see how a set value, which according to the rules happens before markerlights would happen afterwards. The wording is also a COMBINATION, I don't believe there is a combination, since chronologically they occur at a different time. I elect to shoot and am BS 1, then I fire A networked markerlight then use it afterwards. But I agree, it will probably work as you say until it's FAQ. But the mention markerlights in overwatch in FAQ as if there is a purpose.

It makes sense in combat where they all happen simultaneously like the +1 strength from chargeing and x2 from fists. But the shooting and markerlights actually happen at different times according to their rules.

Also not really Tynskel since they are charging. And can't pin with overwatch either. Not much use for markerlights in overwatch despite being allowed. I reckon it will be FAQed to allow you to increase the BS.

[Coyote81]

No I'm not, but I fail to see how a set value, which according to the rules happens before markerlights would happen afterwards. The wording is also a COMBINATION, I don't believe there is a combination, since chronologically they occur at a different time. I elect to shoot and am BS 1, then I fire A networked markerlight then use it afterwards. But I agree, it will probably work as you say until it's FAQ. But the mention markerlights in overwatch in FAQ as if there is a purpose.

It makes sense in combat where they all happen simultaneously like the +1 strength from chargeing and x2 from fists. But the shooting and markerlights actually happen at different times according to their rules.

Also not really Tynskel since they are charging. And can't pin with overwatch either. Not much use for markerlights in overwatch despite being allowed. I reckon it will be FAQed to allow you to increase the BS.

So when you go to shoot overwatch, is your BS3 unit using it's BS? Or a modified one?

As I see it. 1:You fire a Networked MarkerLight at BS1, you hit. Then you go to fire your other guns , you check to see what your BS is when you shoot,. +1 BS for Markerlight, or and your BS is BS1 for firing as Overwatch. Seems like they are working in combination imo.

Plus timing doesn't matter, it's what modifiers are affecting you at the time you shoot. You could have gotten them from a psychic power the turn before, or from a marker light, or from snapfire. They all apply when you go to shoot and the set values override.

[gcsmith]

Meh, Ill just markerlight to have a free one next turn if they fail to get into combat then.

[Coyote81]

Meh, Ill just markerlight to have a free one next turn if they fail to get into combat then.

Agreed. I thought that was awesome.

[gcsmith]

Its awesome if they fail the charge roll, or you kill enough to stay out of charge range.

And I wish my Tau video would hurry up and upload to youtube. :( Quite surprised how popular my 40k vids have been :D

[gcsmith]

got a video discussing the tau somewhat up now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-fqxfT52LM

[Panxer]

got a video discussing the tau somewhat up now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-fqxfT52LM

Good video mate~ A lot of good points addressed. I do believe the Skyray can be used to hobble flyers with markerlights (ie using tetras to strip their saves and blast them with the remaining hits to launch missiles)

Stealth suits are pretty awesome now being that they have a 3+ to whatever cover they find themselves in; my only quam is that they have no ability to take special weapons like missile pods or plasma, but I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth. They have 3+ cover to whatever they're in, the can outflank and re-roll to determine what side they come in on, AND can take marker drones and snapfire with them (but for the points I don't know if I'd take them in a competitive list)

Sentry turrets are kind of annoying at best. They're pretty cool as a defensive unit though. I typically take them and place them along side a fearless unit of Broadsides with an ethereal to help screen anyone looking to get in assault, and with the look out sir rule, it might be actually worth it to take them now.

XV's will smash people now with what they are able to do with character rules now...buahahaha...I have 15 of them (2 as commanders) and holee tau poop fireforge config is going to &ape face now so hard!

Tetras are now a necessity given the points compared to pathfinders, BUT pathfinders with rail rifles are now SICK with the sniper rule. Now only if we can take them without buying the devilfish, I'll be all smiles.

Broadsides are now WAY more mobile and can fire on the move (How does this work now with stabilizers vs just being able to snap fire?)

Hammerheads got nerfed a bit, but with broadsides being nigh unkillable now, I'd dump a tank in exchange for moving TL anti-tank platform. Yes please.

Last thing: Allies. Everyone and their mom is calling for Eldar as an ally with all the special characters which can give tau units guide and doom. Works for you? Do it. But I for one am going to be making a blood angels successor chapter who'll pick up the slack as 3+ sv jump infantry with sanguinary priests to give them FNP AND red thirst AND 3 close combat attacks on the charge AND have power weapons and melta pistols etc! Ehmahgerd! Bludhenghels!

Danke:D

[gcsmith]

Am I the only one not seeing where Tau units gain the sniper rule?

I can see characters but not rail rifle guys.

Also Stealth suits don't need to snap fire with marker drones, as drones that are with them get the relentless rule, and if that drone is taken by the unit leader, they gain the character rule. :D

[DrLove42]

I had a thought...if you need a super awesome FW boost....

The Remora Drone Fighter.

Cheap, with networked markerlight, 2 seeker missiles and 2 burst cannons. And BS3.

That on its own isn't too bad as a flier. But theres more! Depending on yourreading of the rules it still has its stealth field generator.

Now either you apply it as written, and you have to be damn close to shoot it down
Or
You use the FAQ for the Tau codex. And suddenly it has a 4+ cover save at all times. And if it evades and gains a jink save, it gets a 2+ cover save....

[gcsmith]

I did mention it on my video Drlove42, I'm waiting for the new Forgeworld flyer book to see what it's new rules are, as a standard flyer for 40k.

[DrLove42]

Ah cool, youtubes a bit shoddy at work so haven't watched your vid.

If they're good, might give me an excuse to finish building the 2 i've had in my cupboard for 2 years....

[sarge.au]

Last thing: Allies. Everyone and their mom is calling for Eldar as an ally with all the special characters which can give tau units guide and doom.


Guide is Eldar units only. We still can't use it.

[Tauownz]

I watched your video last night, very informative. I think the remora could be nasty, I'm hoping it gets the same burst cannons as the hammerhead variant S6 AP4 w/ the seekers you could do some damage and hopefully they go down in points cost. As far as snipers go, not sure about the railrifle pathfinders. They still have to take the useless and way expensive devilfish and they lose their target locks now, so no more split fire. And w/ HQ characters rolling Look out sirs on a 2+ on every shot, imo I don't think they are the best choice. I think tetras are the way to go in fast attack. And if you want something for fliers, pick up the aegis defense line, 4+ cover for everything behind including vehicles and kroot and it comes w/ the 4 shot S7 48" thud gun that can hit fliers on a 2+ if say your shas'el is closest to it.

[Jacubus]

My question is Seeker Missiles... do they keep their BS5 when being launched at Flyers? I think one of the Faqs question covers it but my fellow 40kers don't think so.

[gcsmith]

They keep their BS when the vehicle can only snapshot, so yes I would say they do.

[Drakkan Vael]

Yes you fire at BS 5 but you still need a Markerlight to hit it at BS 1 first.

[gcsmith]

Aye, hence my wanting to get Tetra's

[Panxer]

Guide is Eldar units only. We still can't use it.

Roger that. I stand corrected. Danke. I'm still going to use blood angels to provide deep strike and close combat support. Clerp clerps.

Ohh! The guy talking about 'getting' tetras? I'd suggest removing and magnetizing the wings from your piranhas, so you can just take what you have and make it modular. Ok, it's not the 'forgeworld model', but you can add whatever you want to make them wysiwyg...imagination is the limit.

Broadsides... I'm curious at to broadsides now; can they move 6" and fire because of the 'slow and purposeful' usr?

[Aramel]

Just use Divination, the primaris power allows any unit within 12 to re-roll all hits for a turn. There is also a power that lets the psycher and his unit ignore cover saves, another to give a unit within 12 a 4+ invul. Most importantly is the first power that lets you overwatch at full BS and counter-attack. Most of these are great for Tau.

[Tauownz]

Broadsides can move 6" and still fire and get granted the slow and purposeful rule however you have to take the A.S.S. but if you do you lose overwatch. I run them in pairs now since target locks got nerfed. I think I'd rather have 8 smart missiles firing off in overwatch if I get asaaulted and spend those points on a targeting array and a hwbsf. Like the idea of deep striking blood angels for cc as you now can get your assault move after deepstrike.

[gcsmith]

Tau ownz, they don't have to activate their *** so don't always lose over watch.

[Uncle Nutsy]

so after doing some thinking, reading and watching, I think i'm going to do something along the lines of 2x3 crisis teams with twinlinked flamers, and a fusion/flamer on the team leader. the third 3 man team will probably be set up with missile pod/burst cannon or missile pod/flamers with the team leader having either plasma/fusion or plasma/flamer. Tetras, remoras and hammerheads with the plasma turrents, and finally a team of broadsides (with team leader of course) for that oh so nice extended range headshot.

CiB/burst cannon on the commander might be fun to use now with the AP1 buff.

[soldier of the GG]

so after doing some thinking, reading and watching, I think i'm going to do something along the lines of 2x3 crisis teams with twinlinked flamers, and a fusion/flamer on the team leader. the third 3 man team will probably be set up with missile pod/burst cannon or missile pod/flamers with the team leader having either plasma/fusion or plasma/flamer. Tetras, remoras and hammerheads with the plasma turrents, and finally a team of broadsides (with team leader of course) for that oh so nice extended range headshot.

CiB/burst cannon on the commander might be fun to use now with the AP1 buff.

you like flamers? i think that army will work great against orks, but space marines will make short work of the crisis battlesuits. because they have to get close in order for the flamers to work. perhaps you can better equipe your suits with burst cannons or other.

[Uncle Nutsy]

no no, the setup will work because of the fact that the hammerheads' plasma is quite good, and if i am so inclined, i'll equip TX42's with plasma. Marines have never really given me a problem.

[soldier of the GG]

kay. then i dont really see a bad thing in that army. i think it will do fine. o, and have any of you got an idea to beat necrons with thisn ew rules? a friend of mine told me they are now inmpossible to defeat. of course that won't be the case, but they have grown strong indeed. how do i beat them with tau?

[Tauownz]

I didn't have a problem w/ necrons in 5th, however with the emphasis on troops so much now and not so many vehicles, they have become a little harder. Gauss immortals and warriors are hard to down w/ that 4+ reanimate thing. I's suggest mass FW's and kroot w/ markerlight support by tetras. Railheads are nice now too vs. necrons w/ the ap4. Eliminate a unit than move on, keep skimmers out of 24" gauss range and bring bsf's. Premeasuring is in, use it to your advantage.

[Uncle Nutsy]

kay. then i dont really see a bad thing in that army. i think it will do fine. o, and have any of you got an idea to beat necrons with thisn ew rules? a friend of mine told me they are now inmpossible to defeat. of course that won't be the case, but they have grown strong indeed. how do i beat them with tau?

Luckily I know someone who plays necrons. Just gotta get a few games in with him before I figure something out.

the one tactic i've been using with everything up to this point has been solid so far. Target their heavy support first and destroy it as fast as possible.

[Panxer]

Luckily I know someone who plays necrons. Just gotta get a few games in with him before I figure something out.

the one tactic i've been using with everything up to this point has been solid so far. Target their heavy support first and destroy it as fast as possible.


I know the Necron well. 6th ed you will see many squads with maxed out warriors in front bubbling a cryptek and possibly a lord with a res orb with a ghost ark in the back pooping out troops 1 to 3 at a time to replace their losses.

You will see their flyer transport with troops who can move 36" and still drop troops

You will see the sniper unit with a kryptek with a teleporter who will mark a new unit and wound on a 2+ every time it comes out of the warp across the table.

You will see the triarch stalkers make everything TL that it shoots at and hits.

See small variations in play style with other unit types. Wraiths, monoliths etc, but otherwise what I've described will probably be in wide and common use

How to counter it? Railguns. Lots of rail guns. I suggest 2 teams of broadsides to take out the ghost ark while a hammerhead uses its submunition to template as many warriors as possible.

Deepstriking ( or rear missile support) XV8 teams with meltas or missile pods to deal with triarch stalkers and vehicles left standing

TONS of fire warriors with remote sensor towers to make them TL

Tetras. Lots and lots of Tetras

I don't know anything about buying terrain , but that might work well in defensive situations...

I have been driven and defeated by the necron more times than I can count in 5th ed, but now the blue fish people of the Tau'Va are to be respected now, if not totally feared. :D

[gcsmith]

now we have beasts of war trolling, at least I hope they are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgj8fmeQnB4&feature=g-all-u not only does the list suck, but it's illegal.

[Aramel]

Wow, half of what they say is wrong too lol.

[Tauownz]

Beast of war is a joke. Totally Clueless!!

[gcsmith]

They challanged people to get involved via skype, quite tempted. I'm by no means pro Tau player, but if they weren't trolling, then they need help.

[Panxer]

These guys are picking a whimpy and illegal list and laughing about it...Fug these guys.

I could field a straight up tau list without allies and smoke them under 6th ed. I'm also considering converting some skyray turrets into remoras so I have some flyers to use.

Aun'Va? Stealth Suits? These guys are a joke in this instance...

[Panxer]

Smug Chubby British wargamers aside, how does the Broadsides move/shoot work now?

There is no slow and purposeful anymore, so stabilizers are useless...

All XV suits are relentless (to include broadsides) BUT the codex (and I don't know if the FAQ addressed this or not) states that though they are relentless, they cannot fire heavy weapons...

So... ok. Relentless in the 6th ed book states that units with this rule can fire heavy salvo and ord weapons, but not heavy weapons (exempting snap fire), and can charge on the turn that they fired?

So what does this mean? We can move, snap fire, and charge with broadsides?:confused:

[Tynskel]

now we have beasts of war trolling, at least I hope they are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgj8fmeQnB4&feature=g-all-u not only does the list suck, but it's illegal.

bwahahahha!

I love these guys. I have yet to see a video where they get something right.

They are probably the loudest Noise Machine in the 40k Universe.

[Panxer]

Duh...ok slow and purposeful DOES exist...so the Stabilizers DO work, but NOW my question is...

USR says as long as ONE model in the unit has it, then the rest of it has it...then the codex says...in ONE has the Stab.'s then they ALL have to have the Stab,'s...

so...now which is it?

[gcsmith]

Duh...ok slow and purposeful DOES exist...so the Stabilizers DO work, but NOW my question is...

USR says as long as ONE model in the unit has it, then the rest of it has it...then the codex says...in ONE has the Stab.'s then they ALL have to have the Stab,'s...

so...now which is it?

Easy, they all have to have stabalizers. The Stabalization system only gives them SaP in a turn they activate them, and since turn = player turn unless otherwise stated they can overwatch in your opponents turn.

Question is, should I submit myself to challenge them.

[gcsmith]

bwahahahha!

I love these guys. I have yet to see a video where they get something right.

They are probably the loudest Noise Machine in the 40k Universe.

It consoles me that at least I get the stuff about tau right in my vids :D

[Panxer]

Roger that. Too easy.

Still maybe a better option to take a team with plasma and MT's, with a team leader with a bsf, plasma, and hw multi-tracker (being that only one model in the squad has to have it now in order for the whole unit to be equipped. Unless THAT'S been changed too...

[gcsmith]

hmm interesting I shall check.

[Uncle Nutsy]

I know the Necron well. 6th ed you will see many squads with maxed out warriors in front bubbling a cryptek and possibly a lord with a res orb with a ghost ark in the back pooping out troops 1 to 3 at a time to replace their losses.

You will see their flyer transport with troops who can move 36" and still drop troops

You will see the sniper unit with a kryptek with a teleporter who will mark a new unit and wound on a 2+ every time it comes out of the warp across the table.

You will see the triarch stalkers make everything TL that it shoots at and hits.

See small variations in play style with other unit types. Wraiths, monoliths etc, but otherwise what I've described will probably be in wide and common use

How to counter it? Railguns. Lots of rail guns. I suggest 2 teams of broadsides to take out the ghost ark while a hammerhead uses its submunition to template as many warriors as possible.

Deepstriking ( or rear missile support) XV8 teams with meltas or missile pods to deal with triarch stalkers and vehicles left standing

TONS of fire warriors with remote sensor towers to make them TL

Tetras. Lots and lots of Tetras

I don't know anything about buying terrain , but that might work well in defensive situations...

I have been driven and defeated by the necron more times than I can count in 5th ed, but now the blue fish people of the Tau'Va are to be respected now, if not totally feared. :D

nope. won't see all of that because, the guy only has two of the models you listed. He's got a doom/night scythe, annihilation barge, doomsday ark, immortals, Obryn and his buddy, guards, wraiths, a spyder and some immortals.

My plan is 2x2 broadsides, hammerhead with either the plasma variant or the RG, lotsa suits, lotsa tx42's, lotsa tetras, two or three squads of firewarriors.. and some DE nastiness.

[Uncle Nutsy]

exactly where was their list illegal?

i counted HQ, 1x elite, 3x troops, and 1x FA for tau, 1 HQ and 2 troops for the orks allies. so far, it fits.

[gcsmith]

No battlesuit commander, and no support systems on the broadsides. Sorry but if you base a tau list only on it's 1 hq 2 troops and what not, then you don't know tau all that well.

[Tauownz]

Anyone know if the tetra gets a run move after it shoots markerlights? Considering it's not really firing a weapon of damage. Just curious. The more I play them the more people go after them full force. And also is it still 12" and fire markerlights or can you move further now? Thanks.

[Panxer]

nope. won't see all of that because, the guy only has two of the models you listed. He's got a doom/night scythe, annihilation barge, doomsday ark, immortals, Obryn and his buddy, guards, wraiths, a spyder and some immortals.

My plan is 2x2 broadsides, hammerhead with either the plasma variant or the RG, lotsa suits, lotsa tx42's, lotsa tetras, two or three squads of firewarriors.. and some DE nastiness.

Roger that.

My guy I fight all the time uses the warrior factory spam,, flyer transports, a sniper deathstar squad, while using the triarch stalkers to make everything it hits twin linked for the rest of the army.

He'll run heavy destroyers, bugs, wraiths, or bikes as he feels like it, but the main threat is the massive numbers of troops he can field... IC's not withstanding, they are the greatest threat I have to worry about, and Thank you forgeworld for Sensor towers and a 15" double tap range.

[Panxer]

Anyone know if the tetra gets a run move after it shoots markerlights? Considering it's not really firing a weapon of damage. Just curious. The more I play them the more people go after them full force. And also is it still 12" and fire markerlights or can you move further now? Thanks.

House rule I think.

My gaming group probably wouldn't allow it because of what it does for the rest of the army. Yeah, it's a fast skimmer, BUT because it's technically shooting a 'weapon' (heavy 4 for tetras) they wouldn't let that fly.

What Tau need are a pathfinder bike squad! Something like star wars speeder bikes (with jetbike rules) so pathfinders might actually be worth taking now, AND you could diversify without having to buy a devilfish while still having mobile marker support! Woot:D

[Uncle Nutsy]

No battlesuit commander, and no support systems on the broadsides. Sorry but if you base a tau list only on it's 1 hq 2 troops and what not, then you don't know tau all that well.

ah yes that's right. I guess i've been playing DE so much, I forgot about the 1+ requirement.

but a massively expensive HQ? with tau? lol that's a fail.


My gaming group probably wouldn't allow it because of what it does for the rest of the army. Yeah, it's a fast skimmer, BUT because it's technically shooting a 'weapon' (heavy 4 for tetras) they wouldn't let that fly.

so does your gaming group also not let fly anything else that fires a heavy 4 weapon? lol. talk about an insult to common sense.

tetras ARE the bikes you're talking about.


Anyone know if the tetra gets a run move after it shoots markerlights? Considering it's not really firing a weapon of damage. Just curious. The more I play them the more people go after them full force. And also is it still 12" and fire markerlights or can you move further now? Thanks.

tetras don't run because they're vehicles. it doesn't matter if it's firing something that doesn't do damage, it's still firing a weapon.

[Panxer]

"So does your gaming group also not let fly anything else that fires a heavy 4 weapon? lol. talk about an insult to common sense.

tetras ARE the bikes you're talking about."

Uh...yeah, The guy was talking about, and I was referring to firing a 'weapon' (even though the markerlight does no damage and has no strength or AP value) WHILE ALSO doing the vehicle's "run" move in the firing phase AFTER firing the markerlight. That, would be a 'no go' at this station.

I, however was talking about scout marker jetbikes being a wound based T3(4), 3+ sv marker team that could take up to maybe 4-8 bikes, so they can't be taken out so easily. Tetras are nice. Really nice, but why not have something that can't be taken out with 2 glances or a penetration roll of more than 1...

It's the same thing basically as a pathfinder squad, but instead of a devilfish to move around, they have jet bikes and would have the opportunity to provide marker support AND be able to last for more than one turn from concentrated return fire.

[herigonz]

So... ok. Relentless in the 6th ed book states that units with this rule can fire heavy salvo and ord weapons, but not heavy weapons (exempting snap fire), and can charge on the turn that they fired?

So what does this mean? We can move, snap fire, and charge with broadsides?:confused:
Hrmmm, where does it say that Relentless units cannot fire heavy weapons? On page 41 of the BRB I see, "Relentless models can shoot with Heavy, Salvo, or ordnance weapons, counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase.

I just got my BRB book and have been reading through it so maybe I just haven't gotten to that part? Otherwise I don't know why I'd want Advanced Stabilization Systems on my Broadsides.

*Edit - I am still new to Tau. Is it that they're just considered (they being Broadsides) Infantry and not Infantry (Jetpack)? I know their entry says they are relentless but for the purpose of Rapid Firing only I guess?

[gcsmith]

Hrmmm, where does it say that Relentless units cannot fire heavy weapons? On page 41 of the BRB I see, "Relentless models can shoot with Heavy, Salvo, or ordnance weapons, counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase.

I just got my BRB book and have been reading through it so maybe I just haven't gotten to that part? Otherwise I don't know why I'd want Advanced Stabilization Systems on my Broadsides.

*Edit - I am still new to Tau. Is it that they're just considered (they being Broadsides) Infantry and not Infantry (Jetpack)? I know their entry says they are relentless but for the purpose of Rapid Firing only I guess?


Broadsides are not Jump infantry, which TBH I would expect them to become now that Jump infantry are relentless.

[Panxer]

Broadsides are not Jump infantry, which TBH I would expect them to become now that Jump infantry are relentless.

Codex states that all XV Units are relentless, but they cannot fire heavy weapons... Codex supersedes rulebook, and the 6th ed FAQ doesn't address it, so it still stands.

I corrected my post about the Slow and Purposeful not being in the rule book...it's there. I found it. I made a mistake, and I posted that I made a mistake...

Unless the broadsides buy the stabilizers, they have to adhere to the codex entry. The only difference in 6'th is that the broadsides don't have to roll for difficult terrain like we had to in 5th. They can move the full 6" and fire at normal BS...

Now, if you don't buy the A.S.S., you can still move and fire, but it's under the snap fire rule making it a TL 6+ to hit...

Either way you can still assault with the new rules... The difference is just being able to snap fire or fire at normal BS

[gcsmith]

Codex states that all XV Units are relentless, but they cannot fire heavy weapons... Codex supersedes rulebook, and the 6th ed FAQ doesn't address it, so it still stands.

I corrected my post about the Slow and Purposeful not being in the rule book...it's there. I found it. I made a mistake, and I posted that I made a mistake...

Unless the broadsides buy the stabilizers, they have to adhere to the codex entry. The only difference in 6'th is that the broadsides don't have to roll for difficult terrain like we had to in 5th. They can move and fire at normal BS...

Now, if you don't by the A.S.S., you can still move and fire, but it's under the snap fire rule making it a TL 6+ to hit...

Either way you can still assault with the new rules... The difference is just being able to snap fire or fire at normal BS

Broadsides are not jump infantry, they do not get move in assault phase. Relentless wasn't around when the codex was written. Now I expect they may become jump pack unit in next codex.

[ElectricPaladin]

Broadsides are not jump infantry, they do not get move in assault phase. Relentless wasn't around when the codex was written. Now I expect they may become jump pack unit in next codex.

Naw, the Broadside is explicitly a "slow and steady shoots your face" kind of unit, not a movilw jumpy jetpack sort of dude. That's the XV8's job.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Shadowsun + cheapo ethereal. Ethereal goes on top of a building and jumps to his death. then everyone in 18" of shadowsuns' drone (each side if she is in the centre) uses her leadership to pass morale, granting preferred enemy for everything. Now you have Angry Tau. You're welcome.

[Panxer]

The codex states: P27. "A powerfully bult variant of the Crisis Battle Suit, the advanced sensor suite employed by the battle suit grants the wearer the Acute Senses special rule, found in the Warhammer 40k Universal Special Rules section. The units don't count as moving when they fire rapid fire weapons. This ability does not extend to heavy weapons, however the user must be stationary to fire them.".

Ok, what does this mean?

First, the FAQ doesn't address this, BUT the new 'snap fire' rule's got us covered. The SF rule lets you move and fire even heavy weapons on a 6+ even if they move. TL weapons make this a good thing....

This allows also for overwatch... good thing

Now, if you want to buy the stabilizers, you can move and shoot at normal BS, AND still have your overwatch incase you get assaulted... good thing.

[Panxer]

Ok, I got it figured out...

All together the XV88's are better to NOT have the stabilizers.

This is why...

1. If you buy the stabilizers, you ARE NOT RELENTLESS, you are SLOW AND PURPOSEFUL. Jet pack units are relentless (how ironic that XV8's can't cary heavy weapons). The best that broadsides get is the fact that they can always fire the maximum range with rapid fire weaponry (but now with the new rapid fire rules, that doesn't matter)

2. If you buy the stabilizers you count as 'Slow and Purposeful' which takes away your ability to run, overwatch, and make sweeping advances, BUT you can move, fire at normal BS, and assault. Which would pretty scary if you took multi trackers

3. If you do not take stabilizers, you can take multi trackers and plasma move 6", snap fire/run, then assault 2 D6 OR (if assaulted) fire overwatch

So I hope this makes things more clear... Stabilizers (slow and purposeful) bad... Multi trackers, plasma, snap fire, assault...good.

Whatever wargear works for you, by all means...USE IT. Missiles, Plasma, Shield Gens...Tau are enemy specific. Be flexible.

We'll figure all this out as we go, but the horizon looks really good for our blue fishy friends.

[Uncle Nutsy]

wait no...

you can still take stabilizers. you can still snapfire if you have them... if you DON'T trigger them for a move.

[Panxer]

wait no...

you can still take stabilizers. you can still snapfire if you have them... if you DON'T trigger them for a move.

Right, you can still take them and opt not to use them. I just don't see the benefit in taking them at 10pts/model. You lose your ability to run, sweep, or overwatch. Why not just not take them and give them something more useful like black sun filters, let them snap fire, and use marker lights to up the BS from the snap fire?

Can you do that?! Move 6", allocate marker hits to raise BS, then snap fire at TL BS 1+ marker hits? If you can (and I know the codex, faq, and rule book don't say you can't. It's not even addressed!) then you still have a chance to move 6", snap fire at BS + marker hits, assault/overwatch/sweeping advance!

IF that's the case, there will be 9 Broadside lists everywhere...:eek:

[Panxer]

I've been reading the USR's, and I've noticed this phrase a lot... "if a unit that contains at least one model with this universal special rule"...

I know now that the USR overrules and supersedes the codex unless the codex specifically states a limitation.

Example: Black Sun Filters. Tau codex states (and is addressed in the FAQ) that a model that is equipped with a BSF has the 'night vision' USR...

SO I'm reading the Night Vision USR. Rule book P.40, 'If a unit contains a least one model with this USR ignores the effects of Night Fighting'

And so...Codex states that the model equipped with the BSF has 'night vision' USR, while the rulebook states that as long as one model in the unit has the USR, then the whole UNIT has the USR...

So the team leader has a HW BSF..., so now the entire XV8 unit has night vision?

Fire Warriors have a Shas'Ui with a HW BSF, so the entire squad has night vision?

Etc Etc Etc

Am I reading that right?

[Uncle Nutsy]

Right, you can still take them and opt not to use them. I just don't see the benefit in taking them at 10pts/model. You lose your ability to run, sweep, or overwatch. Why not just not take them and give them something more useful like black sun filters, let them snap fire, and use marker lights to up the BS from the snap fire?

Can you do that?! Move 6", allocate marker hits to raise BS, then snap fire at TL BS 1+ marker hits? If you can (and I know the codex, faq, and rule book don't say you can't. It's not even addressed!) then you still have a chance to move 6", snap fire at BS + marker hits, assault/overwatch/sweeping advance!

IF that's the case, there will be 9 Broadside lists everywhere...:eek:

well it all depends on your playstyle. you want to keep them moving, or do you want to use them as snipers on steroids?

the reason I say you can still overwatch/run while having having the stabilization system is because of one phrase: "choose to use"

If you trigger them to move and fire, you just cannot snapfire/overwatch/run in the next turn.


And so...Codex states that the model equipped with the BSF has 'night vision' USR, while the rulebook states that as long as one model in the unit has the USR, then the whole UNIT has the USR...

So the team leader has a HW BSF..., so now the entire XV8 unit has night vision?

Fire Warriors have a Shas'Ui with a HW BSF, so the entire squad has night vision?

Etc Etc Etc

Am I reading that right?

yup. it confers.

[gcsmith]

well it all depends on your playstyle. you want to keep them moving, or do you want to use them as snipers on steroids?

the reason I say you can still overwatch/run while having having the stabilization system is because of one phrase: "choose to use"

If you trigger them to move and fire, you just cannot snapfire/overwatch/run in the next turn.



yup. it confers.

Actually if you activate them you can overwatch in your opponents turn. They say they give you SaP for your turn, you won't have it for your opponents turn.

[Coyote81]

Right, you can still take them and opt not to use them. I just don't see the benefit in taking them at 10pts/model. You lose your ability to run, sweep, or overwatch. Why not just not take them and give them something more useful like black sun filters, let them snap fire, and use marker lights to up the BS from the snap fire?

Can you do that?! Move 6", allocate marker hits to raise BS, then snap fire at TL BS 1+ marker hits? If you can (and I know the codex, faq, and rule book don't say you can't. It's not even addressed!) then you still have a chance to move 6", snap fire at BS + marker hits, assault/overwatch/sweeping advance!

IF that's the case, there will be 9 Broadside lists everywhere...:eek:

Couple comments on this:

1. Why would I want to run with broadsides, if I'm not shooting with them, I shouldn't have bought them.
2. Why would I want to assault with them, see above. I guess if you really needed to beat up something really weak (aka like 5 or < gaurdsmen), but then you can just choose to not use them.
3. if you need to overwatch with you boradsides and it's kill something with overwatch or lose, scenario, you messed up a long time ago.
4.Sweeping advance with broadsides........never seen it, don't care if they can or not.
5. You cannot use markerlights BS bonus to increase snapfire shots, any modifier that sets you to a set stat value overrides and other modifiers.

FYI is you really want you can take multitrackers/Targeting arrays on your braodsides and take an HQ with stablizers, if he joins the squad the whole unit get stablizers.

[Panxer]

Couple comments on this:

1. Why would I want to run with broadsides, if I'm not shooting with them, I shouldn't have bought them.
2. Why would I want to assault with them, see above. I guess if you really needed to beat up something really weak (aka like 5 or < gaurdsmen), but then you can just choose to not use them.
3. if you need to overwatch with you boradsides and it's kill something with overwatch or lose, scenario, you messed up a long time ago.
4.Sweeping advance with broadsides........never seen it, don't care if they can or not.
5. You cannot use markerlights BS bonus to increase snapfire shots, any modifier that sets you to a set stat value overrides and other modifiers.

FYI is you really want you can take multitrackers/Targeting arrays on your braodsides and take an HQ with stablizers, if he joins the squad the whole unit get stablizers.

We were referencing about advanced stabilizer systems and whether to take them or not with broadsides.

1. Why assault with them? Because they are tough. A shield generator or shield drones makes them very resilient. And if they are accompanied by an ethereal, the unit is fearless (and if he's killed) the whole army has a chance to gain preferred enemy.

2. Yes, I'd rather shoot with them, but they are a HUGE target and with the mobility of most armies right now, they will most likely be in an assault by turn 3 (if not sooner)

3. I agree with the the multi-tracker equip, but I'd recommend, a Team Leader with SMS (or plasma, up to you), a HW blacksun filter, HW drone controller with 2 shield drones, and a multi tracker, while either maxing out the unit or not is up to you. I don't worry about the target arrays because of the marker support from sensor towers or tetras (not to mention the TL railguns/SMS/Plasma).

You like playing it like you've got it laid out? Cool! Play it! ;)

[soldier of the GG]

if you have a teamleader who has A.S.S that doesnt mean the whole squad has them, in fact, if someone has them the whole squad must have it in order to use it, so states the codex

[Tauownz]

I don't run A.S.S. on my xv88's but I'm pretty sure they all have to be equipped the same. They're more of a sit in cover don't move all game w/ 2 shield drones wrapped by kroot kind of unit w/ good firing lanes. Plus I think if you move w/ A.S.S. you can't snap fire, but if you getting assaulted it's game over for them anyway. I used to field at least 6 in a game in 5th all w/target locks. Now in 6th I might bring 1 or 2 at most in 2k game. It's all about troops/elites/FA and minimal tanks/transports, we need more small arms fire now.