Crazy idea for Tyranids in 6th

[KnightShift]

Regarding the ability to add allies...

I run an Ork army. Think it would be possible/legal for my boyz to have some captured Tyranid genestealers that they could unleash as a nasty surprise? Wouldn't be "allied" in the classic sense but something that could be thrown in as an asset to my forces :D

[XV8 Crisis Suit]

For some unknown (read: stupid) reason, GW decided that Tyranids don't get any allies. :c

You could, using the ally ruleset, but only in friendly games.

[Wildeybeast]

It is totally stupid. It's done for fluff reasons and ones that make perfect sense. But they then undermine that by having totally stupid alliances that make no sense whatsoever under the fluff. Why in the name of the greater good would Tau ally with Daemons?? Sure, it took them a while to learn that Orks don't make good client races, but surely they have moved on from there by now?

[Wolfshade]

I'm sure that they used to have actual Ork/Genestealer hybrids back in 2nd
but here is Curtis (of Ninjabread fame) hybrids (http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/2010/01/12/ork-genestealer-hybridz-shoota-boyz/)
http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/images/greenstealerz/greenstealerz-shootaz-1.jpg

[Ferro]

Seems the best nids can do is to ally Hive Fleet Kraken with Hive Fleet Leviathon, or somesuch.

[Lerra]

Why in the name of the greater good would Tau ally with Daemons??

Kroot have been known to fall to Chaos.

[XV8 Crisis Suit]

Kroot have been known to fall to Chaos.

Not to mention those blasted Renegade Tau under the influence of Commander Farsight. They're nothing more than pirates and mercenaries now. There's no telling where they'll draw the line.

[Wolfshade]

Kroot have been known to fall to Chaos.

Ah, but Kroot are mercenaries who work for whom ever they are not strictly speaking Tau

[Guidebot]

I'm sure that they used to have actual Ork/Genestealer hybrids back in 2nd
but here is Curtis (of Ninjabread fame) hybrids (http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/2010/01/12/ork-genestealer-hybridz-shoota-boyz/)
http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/images/greenstealerz/greenstealerz-shootaz-1.jpg

Those are fantastic.

What could have been, eh?

As it happens, I think they played it right to leave tyranids with no allies, but they need to balance it with something, or else it just makes tyranids plain worse in this regard than everyone else.

And tyranids are one army that really doesn't need that right now.

[Chris Copeland]

Isn't Farsight falling under the influence of Chaos these days? I thought that had been hinted at in the fluff...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Isn't Farsight falling under the influence of Chaos these days? I thought that had been hinted at in the fluff...

I personally thought that the Dawnblade was either an Eldar or a Necron weapon. Which, if the new fluff is to be believed, makes sense.

[Wildeybeast]

Kroot have been known to fall to Chaos.

Not exactly. There are Kroot who work for whoever pays them, but as Wolfshade says, they aren't Tau and the Kroot keep their mercenaries secret from the Tau proper. There have been Kroot who ate Chaos warriors and went all crazy and had to be put down, but there haven't been any who have openly embraced Chaos so to speak.


Not to mention those blasted Renegade Tau under the influence of Commander Farsight. They're nothing more than pirates and mercenaries now. There's no telling where they'll draw the line.

They aren't Chaos worshippers though. Farsight went a bit wappy out outside of Etheral AoE, but he still thinks he is fighting for the greater good and to protect the Tau.

So I stand by my claim, Tau would never ally with Chaos and would die beofre serving them as slaves or some such nonsense.

[heretic marine]

So I stand by my claim, Tau would never ally with Chaos and would die beofre serving them as slaves or some such nonsense.

I Agree

[Tynskel]

nah.

Everyone allies together when...

Tyranids come to eat you!

[Calmsword]

First off- the Tau have been seen aiding Chaos raids as independent mercenaries before- which makes sense but daemons? No... No one should be able to side with Daemons save Dark Eldar and CSM.

Secondly: Based on the current Tau fluff- There has only been one instance of the Tau coming across a Kroot Mercenary band and they were brought back into the fold without much complaint- but the Tau probably think this was a lone incident.

The Tau do use Ork Mercenaries as is illustrated in Kill Team, but not to the degree of an 'army' so to speak.

As to the 'renegade' Farsight- Literally no one knows about what's happened to him in the Empire and no one has seen nor heard from him since he left. What we do know is from the Ork codex and that is he bit off more than he could chew against an Ork Waaagh! which he fights a near never ending war with. In all likelihood the original RT report of Farsight's dealings is that he didn't go chaos/eldar/whatever and just got caught with his pants down.

Anyway- as of the 2nd codex the 'Dawn blade' doesn't do anything in terms of extending his life. We're just gonna have to wait for the 3rd codex- I hope Chambers writes it.

[papa smurf]

Could Tyranids ally with more Tyranids? I know that sounds really stupid, but if it is true that an ally can supply the mandatory, 1 HQ, 1 Troop and then 1 of any other choice (sans HQ), than a Tyranid army can "ally" with another Tyranid army, gaining another HQ slot and another additional slot of its choice in the rest of the force organization chart. I don't know what Games Workshop will put in the rulebook to address that, but if they don't prevent it (or maybe muck it up in the rulebook) then maybe Tyranids can get some extra force organization slots via using other Tyranids as "allies?" It sounds far-fetched but at least Tyranids would be able to benefit from the allies system that way...

[Wildeybeast]

First off- the Tau have been seen aiding Chaos raids as independent mercenaries before- which makes sense but daemons? No... No one should be able to side with Daemons save Dark Eldar and CSM.

What!? When? I'm sorry but I don't believe this. Tau acting as mercenaries goes competley against the greater good. References please!

[Akaiyou]

Not to mention those blasted Renegade Tau under the influence of Commander Farsight. They're nothing more than pirates and mercenaries now. There's no telling where they'll draw the line.

Somehow i dont think chaos daemons can 'pay' the kroot

[Ferro]

Could Tyranids ally with more Tyranids? I know that sounds really stupid, but if it is true that an ally can supply the mandatory, 1 HQ, 1 Troop and then 1 of any other choice (sans HQ), than a Tyranid army can "ally" with another Tyranid army, gaining another HQ slot and another additional slot of its choice in the rest of the force organization chart. I don't know what Games Workshop will put in the rulebook to address that, but if they don't prevent it (or maybe muck it up in the rulebook) then maybe Tyranids can get some extra force organization slots via using other Tyranids as "allies?" It sounds far-fetched but at least Tyranids would be able to benefit from the allies system that way...

This. And if for some reason GW refuses to let me add a fourth Elite slot to my nid lists, I say we start a grass-roots movement for national house-ruling to allow it.

Now, I agree in general that nids should not be allowed to ally with any other codex. But if the guy across the table from me brings Grey Nights + Imperial Guard and tries to tell me that I'm stuck with only three elites choices, I will look him in the eye and call him douchebag.

[chizal]

This. And if for some reason GW refuses to let me add a fourth Elite slot to my nid lists, I say we start a grass-roots movement for national house-ruling to allow it.

Now, I agree in general that nids should not be allowed to ally with any other codex. But if the guy across the table from me brings Grey Nights + Imperial Guard and tries to tell me that I'm stuck with only three elites choices, I will look him in the eye and call him douchebag.

remember at 2000 points you have the option to take another FOC

im also hoping nids will get to ally with themselves when the errata/faqs are released

[Tynskel]

wait. Do you get and 'extra' FOC, or is it that you must spend certain FOC slots on allies. There's a big difference.

[chizal]

allies have their own separate FOC hq 1 elites 0-1 troops 1-2 fast 0-1 heavy 0-1

[Tynskel]

Oi! But that's even crazier. I can go nuts here: Captain, Librarain, Master of the Forge, Chaplain... all in one army!

So, can you take more than one ally?

[chizal]

just one ally, but can take one ally FOC per Primary FOC

so in 2000+ battles you can have

HQ 2-4
elites 0-6
troops 4-12
fast 0-6
heavy 0-6

plus 2 lots of allies

hq 1
elites 0-1
troops 1-2
fast 0-1
heavy 0-1

can only ally with one army

[Tynskel]

interesting many of the forgeworld superheavy rules require that you are taking them as a second 'detachment'. So, they would fit in quite nicely to this new format.

[Andrew283]

I just still use the 4th edition codex for my Nids tbh. New book is tragic

[ShioriShi]

And oddly enough the IG dex plays more or less exactly like a Tyranid dex should... and they are writen by the same guy even.

[Tynskel]

I just still use the 4th edition codex for my Nids tbh. New book is tragic

That is the biggest bunch of bunk.
Yes, some things got 'nerfed', but those things were BROKEN. They added serious amount of cool stuff to the tyranid codex, as well as some awesome models. To say it is tragic is a load of junk.

WHAT is tragic was taking a noble race like the Dwarves, and then call them Squats. Not only that, then making them look like a thuggy biker gang.

[angeleania]

In 5th, i play nids.... i tried blood angels and grey knights, i went back to Nids...

My track record is not bad. I have played in a few comps in england. Though i cant get to some of the bigger ones. I always come in the top quater of the rankings.
Last comp was 60 people 3 games i won all 3 fighting Draigo, Necrons, and Duel Lash CSM's.
I run 3 tervigons, 2 trygons, 1 mawlok, 6 hive guard and doom. Its a spammy list at 1800pts, but thats the norm.

Are we Broken with the present codex, no...... But there are some match ups we really realy come close to auto lose. Dark eldar poison sucks. Vendetta spam and basalisks suck. A lucky Grey knight player, sucks.

Nids are considdered lower teir, Look at the ETC (European Team Champs) hardly a nid in sight, infact this year there may not be one at all. Ard boys - What was it 10 of the top 16 played grey nights? where were your nids?

Ok so now we have 6th, it all now rests on the FAQ, if they dont throw something then the nid player will take a nose dive in popularity. They are complicated to get a result, remove the effectivness of Genestealers, whilst giving every other codex a boost to fill in the gaps by allowing allies, allowing shots when ur charged. Add in flyers that cant be hit unless roll a 6... hahaha make them move 18-36 thanks our best guns only shoot 24"

So many things are looking bad for nids. its a mess. I do hope those FAQ's come out tomorrow. Then i will play and we shall see.

Remember NID's RULE, everything else is just lunch :)

[NocturnalReaper]

So looking into spam list because we all will. Tervigon Spam at 2500. For an exspensive Tervigon CC,AG,TS,Rege,CS,Cata,Onsl. You can take 8 with 76 gaunts. The Tervigons can then give onslaught and dominion and get new powers. One is also your Commander so more boost.

[Andrew283]

That is the biggest bunch of bunk.
Yes, some things got 'nerfed', but those things were BROKEN. They added serious amount of cool stuff to the tyranid codex, as well as some awesome models. To say it is tragic is a load of junk.

WHAT is tragic was taking a noble race like the Dwarves, and then call them Squats. Not only that, then making them look like a thuggy biker gang.

Behave, Other than the Trygon and Swarmlord very little good was added to the 5th edition dex. Cruddance looked at everything that was good with the 4th Ed dex and smaked that and nigh on everything else with the Nerf Hammer. The loss of Eternal Warrior in Synapse killed Warriors, Raveners and Broodlords.

[Anggul]

That is the biggest bunch of bunk.
Yes, some things got 'nerfed', but those things were BROKEN. They added serious amount of cool stuff to the tyranid codex, as well as some awesome models. To say it is tragic is a load of junk.

WHAT is tragic was taking a noble race like the Dwarves, and then call them Squats. Not only that, then making them look like a thuggy biker gang.

No. While some of the 4th stuff was broken, the 5th ed one is still crap. I can name at least one problem with every single entry in that codex except for Tyranid Warriors.

[angeleania]

Well first look at the rules and the FAQ. What did we get?

Hmm question is the Jinks save considered a cover save? Because the FAQ for Hive Guard says you dont get cover saves unless in area cover....

Genestealers have lost charge on the turn they arrive. But the Brood lord could be a winner.
Problem with this is that from the Biomancy table half the spells are shooting spell. Now nothing in the FAQ deals with " If you cant use the ability" But the BRB does sort of, it says if you roll the same ability again roll again, if you roll an ability that you cant use because its warp cost is hight than your ability, reroll. SO on that presidance i ask, If i roll a power i cant use due to my BS being 0 then i should just reroll till i get one i can use.

Winged HT, with twin devourers begin to look like the new auto include.

So i guess the balance will work out some, And just like the other armies we will have to adapt, lucky for the Nids we have been doing that for a long time.;)

[Wildeybeast]

Could Tyranids ally with more Tyranids? I know that sounds really stupid, but if it is true that an ally can supply the mandatory, 1 HQ, 1 Troop and then 1 of any other choice (sans HQ), than a Tyranid army can "ally" with another Tyranid army, gaining another HQ slot and another additional slot of its choice in the rest of the force organization chart. I don't know what Games Workshop will put in the rulebook to address that, but if they don't prevent it (or maybe muck it up in the rulebook) then maybe Tyranids can get some extra force organization slots via using other Tyranids as "allies?" It sounds far-fetched but at least Tyranids would be able to benefit from the allies system that way...

I can't see anyone else mentioning this so I'll pour cold water on your dreams - you cannot ally with anything from the same codex as you.

[Tynskel]

No. While some of the 4th stuff was broken, the 5th ed one is still crap. I can name at least one problem with every single entry in that codex except for Tyranid Warriors.

Whiners whining. That's stupid. I could complain about every entry in the space marine codex—they don't kill fast enough!

The tyranid codex rocks, just end of the days of endless swarm with 100 point monstrous creatures.

[Wildeybeast]

Hmm question is the Jinks save considered a cover save?


Yes. Yes it is. It explictly states so in the jink rules. Twice in fact.


Whiners whining. That's stupid. I could complain about every entry in the space marine codex—they don't kill fast enough!

The tyranid codex rocks, just end of the days of endless swarm with 100 point monstrous creatures.

Absouletly, you just have to know how to use it properly.

[Anggul]

Whiners whining. That's stupid. I could complain about every entry in the space marine codex—they don't kill fast enough!

The tyranid codex rocks, just end of the days of endless swarm with 100 point monstrous creatures.

Not really, I'm talking fluff just as much as balance.

I never played the 4th ed codex like that because I can completely agree with you that it was silly. I can, however, go through the 5th ed codex and make changes to every entry bar Warriors to make it fit the fluff and be balanced without being anything like the dark days of the 4th ed codex.

In fact, I have. No doubt it will need revising due to the new rules, but most of it still stands.

[Brass Scorpion]

Regarding the ability to add allies...

I run an Ork army. Think it would be possible/legal for my boyz to have some captured Tyranid genestealers that they could unleash as a nasty surprise? Wouldn't be "allied" in the classic sense but something that could be thrown in as an asset to my forces :D

Why is this in the News and Rumors section of the forum? It should be in Discussion.

[DarkLink]

That's a good question.

I'm also wondering if Tynskel is the only nidz player (I think you play nidz, right?) that isn't emo. You'd think GW put in a rule that nidz players have to dye their hair, wear eyeshadow, fishnets, and long bangs, and can't hang out with any of the cool people.

Oh, wait, I guess that last one is kind of an actual rule.

[Kawauso]

That's a good question.

I'm also wondering if Tynskel is the only nidz player (I think you play nidz, right?) that isn't emo. You'd think GW put in a rule that nidz players have to dye their hair, wear eyeshadow, fishnets, and long bangs, and can't hang out with any of the cool people.

Oh, wait, I guess that last one is kind of an actual rule.

For the record I love the Tyranid codex.

I just happen to be concerned with the army's capability for dealing with flyers. I realize that this is a problem many armies have right now, but with 'nids the problem seems more pronounced, because they won't ever get their own 'flyers' to counter them, and currently the most reliable options available are Flyrants and Harpies...which just don't seem to cut it in comparison (though I withhold final judgment until I've gotten some games under my belt). This is particular worrisome when considering how many flyers armies like IG and Necrons could potentially take...

It also bites that we're still waiting on a Harpy model...and personally I'd prefer some sort of melee variant. I'm not looking forward to being forced to include a 'Nid model with a gun in my army just to deal with a particular unit type. That's a matter of personal taste there, though.

Overall though? I love the 'nid book. I love sending swarms of gribblies to their doom, supported by hulking monsters that rip tanks apart (especially under the new rules, it looks like!).

[Bigred]

Moving this one over to 40K general.

Continue chatting.

[Brandoncbaker]

I heard or read something recently that said Nids has the highest percentage of Females playing them.

[Tynskel]

I heard or read something recently that said Nids has the highest percentage of Females playing them.

Kinda hard to sexualize bugs... oh wait the pyrovore....

[Tynskel]

That's a good question.

I'm also wondering if Tynskel is the only nidz player (I think you play nidz, right?) that isn't emo. You'd think GW put in a rule that nidz players have to dye their hair, wear eyeshadow, fishnets, and long bangs, and can't hang out with any of the cool people.

Oh, wait, I guess that last one is kind of an actual rule.

hahahah...
I am a bug player. Been playing since ~'93.
There were things I was miffed about with the bugs, but I'll take the 5th Edition Codex over 4th Edition any day. Just as I would take 4th over 3rd.

Now, 2nd Edition. There's a special place in my heart for that thing... Gargoyles with Flamespurts (I still have the models), parrying with boneswords, Genestealers causing Fear, Hive Tyrants with 3 different save throws, Alien looking hormogaunts...

[DarkLink]

I just happen to be concerned with the army's capability for dealing with flyers.

Flyers are going to be stupid good for anyone who can take them for a while. IG with their Hydras are the only army in the game that has a reliable means of dealing with them, since most flyer units have guns focused on killing infantry (except maybe one or two Necron/DE ones). And Hydras have problems now that they only hit ground units on 6's.

I'm not sure exactly how everyone's going to deal with this. I think I'll keep on a couple of psyrifle dreads for no other reason that their slightly above average ability to take down flyers.

[KrewL RaiN]

The 5th ed Tyranid book is so much better then the 4th. When people think of 4th ed Tyranids, it was Carnifex spam and ONLY Carnifex spam. Plus the 5th ed dex has WAY more useable stuff lol.

As for flyers, everyone has a right to worry about those. It's almost like GW made them too good so we are tempted to load up on them.

Only big thing that bothered me with the 6th ed changes was the outflank/infiltrate nerfs. I also can't afford the new book yet so I don't know how the new CC phase works. Not quite sure how the whole psychic phase works either, but outflanking a Tervigon/Broodlord Brood and dropping some psychic bombs may be tempting. Then you hope they live after lol.

Still I am excited to try some new things out. I was getting pretty sour with 5th ed annoyances, but I am so happy that a lot of that crap is fixed now. Tyranid players should be more happy with that then anything.


I heard or read something recently that said Nids has the highest percentage of Females playing them.

It's so true lol!

[DarkLink]

If you want to outflank, you'd better either do it with a unit that can shoot, or that can weather a turn of shooting, or one that's intended to die but to take a lot of effort to kill. Forty or fifty outflanking genestealers would do the trick, I think.

Frankly, I think the outflank nerf is a bit overrated. Aside from that, reserves got a major buff, so you can actually reliably put stuff in reserves and count on it coming in and influencing the fight. You just can't expect one random little 10-man genestealer squad with no support to accomplish much.



CC is pretty much the same, but with a few differences that work out in favor of the nidz, actually.

For one, No Retreat is gone. That will make horde players very happy.

Secondly, you only Pile In once a turn, 3", at your initiative step before you strike.

Supplementary to that, you pull casualties from the front. That means that killzones from 4th are back. If your genestealers cause enough casualties, all your opponent's front models (including his power fist) get pulled, and the models in back might not be able to consolidate into base contact. So if you kill enough guys, it's possible that your opponent won't get to hit back. This is like back in 4th ed, where genestealers and harlequins would sweep their killzones and laugh when no one was left alive to hit back, but they were still locked in combat.

And, of course, there are challenges.

[KrewL RaiN]

When I heard that no retreat wounds are gone, I was all
http://www.thecarrotbox.com/news/2007/homer_spinning.gif

That is one of the greatest buffs EVER for hordes. No retreat wounds always ticked me off, especially if an MC is in the same combat ><;

It's going to be interesting re learning and re adapting. I have some things I want to try, just to take some test nibbles hehe. Thinking the Dakkafex may be more useful too.

Infiltrating a Genestealer blob and hoping for some night fight is probaly the way to go when it comes to them. Outflanking them is just too risky now. They may be a fire magnet, so then have a staggered wave of doom to move up (Gargoyles with Hormagaunts behind them for example... wait are Gargoyles faster now? Ooo Gargoyles/Ravener wave may be nasty too) while the Genestealkers get picked on in cover.