Keeping hands out of the cookie Jar.

[Dalleron]

Raise your hand, or comment below, if you are NOT going to be using the new Allies Rule.

I for one won't be, as I don't feel the need or desire to. I don't see why it's in the BRB in the first place. For larger games perhaps, but that's Apocalypse where almost anything goes.

[Dalleron]

Oops, but this in the wrong area. Feel free to move it mods. :confused:

[triplare]

I play Tyranids...so...not using allies wont be a problem.

[Demonus]

For friendly games I dont see it being an issue. For tourney games where everyone will min/max their army, it will suck.

[MajorWesJanson]

For friendly games I dont see it being an issue. For tourney games where everyone will min/max their army, it will suck.

It's not such that people will min/max armies all of the sudden, just that they will min/max differently. The Allies rules are not the problem, people are the problem.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

This is another good rule! It allows for a much better themed army list. I could make the 1st war for Armageddon, or the battle where BA and Necrons team up, and many many more.

[Lockark]

In 5th I would deploy 9 oblits in a building suronded by rhinos, with two lash scor to make a "tower of power".

In 6th I can now have 12+ oblits in a buildings with the Fateweaver chill'in giving me Rerolls on my armour and Cover saves. Because I wasn't obviously playing a True Tower of Power Before!

O____o
lul, wut?

It's a part of the game, and in all honesty for alot of the newer armies it's not that big of a deal. I see it being more of a crutch for Older Army books to help them limp into 6th ed.

Their is a Reason the IG are friends with everyone.

[Wolfshade]

Thematically some of it makes perfect sense, Imperial Guard with a small Space Marine force or GK or SoB fits perfectly well into the fluff. Some of it is a bit strange for instance I would not have my BA allied with Necrons, unless I was facing Nids to recreate the story in the codex.
I can also see why eldar would ally with the imperium if the farseer sees that it is important for the mon keigh to win the battle after all they are playing the long game.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

"the long game" Hahahahaha!

[Emerald Rose Widow]

I play nids so I CANT use this rule, I mean I know it doesn't make sense fluff wise for nids to have allies, it doesn't change the fact that its yet another giant middle finger to the nids, because Purifiers weren't bad enough.

[Wolfshade]

I also find it strange Orks having allies, it seems to me that they would have enough issues trying to ally with themselves let alone another race

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I also find it strange Orks having allies, it seems to me that they would have enough issues trying to ally with themselves let alone another race

To be fair, if I was in the 41st Millennium I wouldn't trust ANYONE.
I'd make an exemplary Dark Angel.

[Wolfshade]

This is all because you want to wear a toga isn't it

[DrLove42]

Orks don't have allies

They're used by other races as a blunt tool to weaken the enemy

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Orks don't have allies

They're used by other races as a blunt tool to weaken the enemy

Re: Dawn of War (ALL OF THEM)

@Wolf, you know me man! :D

[DrLove42]

Precisily.

I'm considering allying Orks up with my Eldars. I really like painting Orks, and i make them look good. And the balence betwen the fragile precise Eldar and the mass Ork lump would make a nice contrast and a good army to play against.

[Cpt Codpiece]

I for one, am glad to see the return of allies.

it has been gone too long. the whole 40k universe is full of stories telling of great combined armies from multiple races fighting together, even the most tenuous link between them, which is then exploited to further the relationship of hate mankind oops the imperium has against all others.... even its own factions (looks at the =I=)

so yeah, i will be uising allies, as it gives me a chance to buy the odd bit of another army to maybe expand upon at a later day. also GK in any army will be cool. means i can go and buy some now :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Precisily.

I'm considering allying Orks up with my Eldars. I really like painting Orks, and i make them look good. And the balence betwen the fragile precise Eldar and the mass Ork lump would make a nice contrast and a good army to play against.

Though I am now tempted to do an army of- SIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIII!!!

[Captainparty]

I play nids so I CANT use this rule, I mean I know it doesn't make sense fluff wise for nids to have allies, it doesn't change the fact that its yet another giant middle finger to the nids, because Purifiers weren't bad enough.

How is this a giant middle finger? They want to make the game more cinematic and driven by stories, having rules in the book that contradicted all of the fluff (except genestealer cults perhaps) wouldn't really work. Stop being so over-dramatic and entitled

[eldargal]

Because it is a general rule mechanic that is being given only to certain armies, not all of them. Unlike WFB where the option to take detachments of certain other armies was given to anyone, even when it made little sense (Daemons and HE) because ti would have been unfair to restrict some armies and not others.

Also, genestealer cults would be a good excuse to have IG allied with tyranids at the very least.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/508/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

[Emerald Rose Widow]

How is this a giant middle finger? They want to make the game more cinematic and driven by stories, having rules in the book that contradicted all of the fluff (except genestealer cults perhaps) wouldn't really work. Stop being so over-dramatic and entitled

Entitled? your kidding me right? My army is the ONLY one that doesn't have at least tenuous allies so its something that uniquely tyranids have ZERO access to, and I'M being entitled. Did you honestly put ANY thought into that response before you threw it out?

[gcsmith]

Entitled? your kidding me right? My army is the ONLY one that doesn't have at least tenuous allies so its something that uniquely tyranids have ZERO access to, and I'M being entitled. Did you honestly put ANY thought into that response before you threw it out?

All other allies you can argue, Tyranids are the great unthinkers, their fluff has moved beyond genestealer cults. They don't have allies because of it. Besides, they got massive buffs from 6th ed, Harpy is finally useful.

[Montserrat]

[RAISES HAND]

I will not play that uber-broken games, thats for sure.

[eldargal]

There is no such thing as 'moving beyond the fluff'. Just because it hasn't been mentioned in a while doesn't mean it has ceased to be.

All other allies you can argue, Tyranids are the great unthinkers, their fluff has moved beyond genestealer cults. They don't have allies because of it. Besides, they got massive buffs from 6th ed, Harpy is finally useful.

Why don't you wait until a) you've seen the rules and b) actually experienced it being boken before having a hissy fit?

[RAISES HAND]

I will not play that uber-broken games, thats for sure.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hah!

Does this mean that Ultramarine Half-Eldar bloke still exists? He was cool.

[eldargal]

That was Tigurius, and given the way Space Marines and the Imperiums xenophobia has been expanded upon more recently it would be safeto say he is not half-eldar. Things was different in 1st edition!:)

[Wolfshade]

Tigirius and Eldar, hopefully, he will be able to teach farseers about psychic powers

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

That was Tigurius, and given the way Space Marines and the Imperiums xenophobia has been expanded upon more recently it would be safeto say he is not half-eldar. Things was different in 1st edition!:)

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWH! Fail. :(

This guy's Tigurius? (http://media.photobucket.com/image/half%20eldar/Dayspring83/1250261614413.jpg)

[eldargal]

Sort of, he was chief librarian of the Ultramarines, now Tigurius is but during the same time frame. I forgot they changed the name, I guess the half-eldar thing has been retconned then.:p

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I am full of sads.

[Wolfshade]

Got to love 1st ed fluff it was super fluffy!

[Defenestratus]

Raise your hand, or comment below, if you are NOT going to be using the new Allies Rule.

I for one won't be, as I don't feel the need or desire to. I don't see why it's in the BRB in the first place. For larger games perhaps, but that's Apocalypse where almost anything goes.

Raises hand.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Got to love 1st ed fluff it was super fluffy!

And then TDA realised that most of his armies are like that... I play 1st edition without realising it...

[Wolfshade]

Not until you get your vehicle card out to work out where about it hits do you play 1st

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't tanks. xD

[eldargal]

Well it depends. I'm going to use allies to make som fluffy theme armies with display boards to go with, like Eldar/Ordo Xenos joint excavation team in some Eldar ruins. But when it comes to the tabletop I have a strict xenos only policy.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Space Racist. xD

[eldargal]

It's not racist when you are objectively superior to everyone else.:p /fistbumps nearby Howling Banshee

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

A fair point. Seeing as I'm becoming an Eldar player, do I get a fistbump?

[DrLove42]

Not until your Eldar force outnumbers the rest of your armies. And ***** that we're drastically underpowered and overcosted on a regular basis

We Eldar folk are elitist :P

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You clearly aren't aware that Farseers now kill Grey Knights like pros.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

All other allies you can argue, Tyranids are the great unthinkers, their fluff has moved beyond genestealer cults. They don't have allies because of it. Besides, they got massive buffs from 6th ed, Harpy is finally useful....Genestealer cults are mentioned in the fluff of their 5th ed. 'dex. Either you don't know what you're talking about, or you're from the future, when cults have been retconned in the 7th ed. 'dex. :P

As far as I'm concerned, Tyranids can ally with Imperial Guard, Orks, Tau, Eldar and Dark Eldar.

The backlash against allies really surprises me, especially considering just how limited the rule's apparently going to be. 1 Elites, 1 FA, 1 Heavy Support? The armies considered to be overpowered are so since they already have a wide selection of powerful units, a weaker codex borrowing a few powerful units isn't going to magically be stronger than the already powerful codices.

[bfmusashi]

Genestealer Cults are mentioned, but I'm unaware of any Hive Fleet showing up and not eating the cultists early into the campaign. I, personally, think putting the genestealer cults back in would be rad as hell, but I don't think there's a Tyranid HQ that would let you do it. But, if Broodlords/Patriarchs got moved to HQ you could have a rad cult with a Primaris acting as a Magus. Stupid crap like this has me uber excited about 6th.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

They usually get nommed, but when the design choice is between not giving the 'nids allies or mentioning "in more recent battles the Hive Mind assumes direct control over the cults rather than immediately consuming them.", I'd probably pick the option that doesn't close a single army out of a core game mechanic :P

[Mr.Pickelz]

If Eldar + Eldar allows me to take more Harlequins, then I'm all for it. :D :D

[PlaguedOne]

I'll be using allies, because I want to use proper daemons with my CSMs again. :(

[Limey El'Jonson]

Raise your hand, or comment below, if you are NOT going to be using the new Allies Rule.

I for one won't be, as I don't feel the need or desire to. I don't see why it's in the BRB in the first place. For larger games perhaps, but that's Apocalypse where almost anything goes.

I have Dark Angels, my son has Orks. There can be an alliance. After the shenanigans on Piscina IV you think that wouldn't happen, but there you go. That'll be fun. Doublewing with Warboss and Nobz as troops in a Battlewagon with outflanking deffkoptas.

[robrodgers46]

I want to play Orks, but I don't have the time, money, or energy to put together another army, especially when I can't seem to stop expanding the ones I have. But now I have the option to get just a few orks and use them as allies, which will be FUN.

40k is a game, it is supposed to be FUN. I can't see anything in the allies rule that isn't FUN, unless you always play against people who maximise their armies to try and table you in turn 3. Which, is not FUN anyway.

I've already ordered a Dakkajet. It will be FUN.

r

[DrBored]

I will be using allies and I will be encouraging my friends, Tournament Organizers, and even my enemies to use allies.

They are now an integral part of the game. It's not like in WFB where it only impacts who your team tourney partner is, this is how you can now build your army list. To ignore it is to be a bad sport, to have bad sportsmanship.

It's like playing Hide and Seek only nobody can actually hide, they just stand around a room and wait to be tagged. It ends up not looking like the game at all, and those that have to play by these altered rules end up not having as much fun while the minority of players that prefer it this way tag them all out with ease.

I can understand being afraid of change. This is a big change in 40k. The last time we heard of allies was long before they were FAQ'd out of the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters Codices. But now everyone can use them, so why are people complaining? If you're worried about your opponent having a broken ally combination in a tournament THEN BRING YOUR OWN.

[Lockark]

I also find it strange Orks having allies, it seems to me that they would have enough issues trying to ally with themselves let alone another race


The Blood Axes are infamous for Hiring them self as mercs in exchanges for weapons and gear. (Thow alot of times once the fighting if over, the Blood Axes use their new guns agiest the people who hired them.)

It's the reason why the other Ork Clans don't trust them, and accuse them of not being Orky enough.

So because of the Blood Axes, it makes sense for the Orks to be able to be allied by any faction who are not above using Xenos Mercs.

Personally I'm a huge Fan of the Blood Axes, and the allies system has me hopeful they will start becoming more prominent in the Ork fluff instead of being over shadowed by the Goffs/Evil sunz/Bad Moons.

[Wolfshade]

Oh yes I am aware of that, but Blood Axes are just stormboyz

[Thrudd]

If Eldar + Eldar allows me to take more Harlequins, then I'm all for it. :D :D

No ally with yourself...

[Lockark]

Oh yes I am aware of that, but Blood Axes are just stormboyz

lul, wut?

Please stop right now, because it's painfully obvious you don't actually know any of the ork fluff with the above comment.
=C

The Blood Axes are one of the Ork Klans, Saying their nothing but Storm Boys/Kommandoz is like saying the Bad Moons are nothing but flash gits, or that the Deff Skullz are nothing but Lootahs!

[Wolfshade]

lul, wut?

Please stop right now, because it's painfully obvious you don't actually know any of the ork fluff with the above comment.
=C

The Blood Axes are one of the Ork Klans, Saying their nothing but Storm Boys/Kommandoz is like saying the Bad Moons are nothing but flash gits, or that the Deff Skullz are nothing but Lootahs!

Please stop right now, because it's painfully obvious you don't actually know the language you are typing in with the above comment.
=C


... Ork Klans, Saying their
Ork Klans, saying they're

I am perfectly aware of the fluff, but made an oversight, I say perfectly aware I don't actually have my copy of Waaargh the Orks (or however many As it has), I made a slip I am fallible just like anyone else.

[gendoikari87]

Raise your hand, or comment below, if you are NOT going to be using the new Allies Rule.

I for one won't be, as I don't feel the need or desire to. I don't see why it's in the BRB in the first place. For larger games perhaps, but that's Apocalypse where almost anything goes.

then don't use it. I for one will be allying marines and guard to make the perfect adeptus mechanicus army.

[gendoikari87]

It's not racist when you are objectively superior to everyone else.:p /fistbumps nearby Howling Banshee

Superior? you're still mostly flesh. Surely you realize that fact makes you highly inferior to the machine cult.

[gannam]

Everyone hated codex creep. This is GW's answer. Embrace it. It allows for "almost" everyone's favorite army to get a taste of the new toys.

If Nids are really good in this edition, I would be pretty damn happy about that. I want a low model count nid army. It would be more fun then pooping gaunts all day hoping for a draw.

[Tannarak]

My hormagaunts outside of synapse range can get 4 attacks on the charge per base (potentially with poison - if it would still exist...)

[clively]

We'll be using allies as well.

Primarily for two reasons:

1. CSM *should* have real Daemons on the field with them, not those under powered generic things.

2. SM *should* have IG detachments to go with them as well.

That said, I'm not too keen on the FOC requirements for the allies. I would have preferred it being a 2 troop min with one optional elite OR heavy with no HQ's allowed.

I think it's a bit more realistic that a commander would requisition some extra grunt forces and not extra leaders.

[gendoikari87]

We'll be using allies as well.

Primarily for two reasons:

1. CSM *should* have real Daemons on the field with them, not those under powered generic things.

2. SM *should* have IG detachments to go with them as well.

That said, I'm not too keen on the FOC requirements for the allies. I would have preferred it being a 2 troop min with one optional elite OR heavy with no HQ's allowed.

I think it's a bit more realistic that a commander would requisition some extra grunt forces and not extra leaders.

You get the leaders when they drop down from the sky to save your ***. i'm afraid a lowly company commander can't tell a space marine captain "no thanks, we just need your meatshields"

[neilasaurus]

I have hesitations about game balance. And some of the table doesn't seem right. And I too question that Tyranids get cut out completely when saying they now use Genestealer Cults for more than just food would less fluff altering than saying Black Templars are huggy friends with aliens.
But...
I just can't resist bringing my Inquisitor and his Callidus girlfriend back into my Imperial Guard.

Here's something I haven't heard anyone mention:
Why couldn't Tyranids and Necrons ally? There is no reason for conflict between them (now that the Ctan are gone at least.) The Tyranids want to consume all organic material in the galaxy, the Necrons are not organic. The Necrons could care less if their planets are completely devoid of life. The Tyranids are not susceptible to Chaos, and will leave the galaxy once they have eaten everything, leaving the galaxy in the exact state Necrons would like it, completely devoid of life capable of psyking. They may plot to stab each other in the back after the battle, but that is true of every army in 40k, including the Imperial forces with each other.

[KrewL RaiN]

I find a lot of the alliances allowed rather silly because of fluff reasons. I have Tyranids, Chaos Daemons and Orks. I see that Orks and Daemons can ally and I am all... what lol. It would make my mind ache joining those two together lol.

What I would love to do is have a main Daemon force with some Word Bearer back up. The smaller elite group of WB would be summoning a flood of Daemons from the Warp.

[Chris Copeland]

I'm going to stick my hands right into that cookie jar! I will do so cheerfully, with good intent, and for great big fluffy reasons! I love the painting and modeling side of this hobby a LOT and I look forward to the painting a modeling possibilities.

I won't be sticking my hands in the jar to create min/maxed, WAAC reasons. I shan't be treading that road. I imagine most of the guys in my club will take the same approach. Cheers. Cope

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I find a lot of the alliances allowed rather silly because of fluff reasons. I have Tyranids, Chaos Daemons and Orks. I see that Orks and Daemons can ally and I am all... what lol. It would make my mind ache joining those two together lol.Orks+Daemons actually have a bit of history together! Waaaay back Stormboyz had a habit of falling to Khorne, and in the Daemonhunters 'dex they had a short bit about nurgle-orks, along with a rather awesome picture of them!

[KrewL RaiN]

Orks+Daemons actually have a bit of history together! Waaaay back Stormboyz had a habit of falling to Khorne, and in the Daemonhunters 'dex they had a short bit about nurgle-orks, along with a rather awesome picture of them!

OMG Nurgle Orks? I gotta find this stuff!

I was also thinking of the Changeling. Say the Changeling killed the Warboss and then copied his form. Then started ordering the Orks around causing all kinds of trouble lol. If I were to ally my Orks and Daemons together, I would probaly make that special Changeling acting as a Warboss lol.

I would only do ally stuff if I can make it awesomely fluffy. I am not a WAAC gamer at all, hell Tyranids are my main army and that would say enough about that!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm going to stick my hands right into that cookie jar! I will do so cheerfully, with good intent, and for great big fluffy reasons! I love the painting and modeling side of this hobby a LOT and I look forward to the painting a modeling possibilities.

I won't be sticking my hands in the jar to create min/maxed, WAAC reasons. I shan't be treading that road. I imagine most of the guys in my club will take the same approach. Cheers. Cope

As will I! :)

[Wolfshade]

Wolfguard + GKs anyone?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Well yeah, but that's mainly just because I'm doing Armageddon. Where the Wolves and Knights legitimately fought together.

[Wolfshade]

I know, just yanking your chain.
Though I think if you read enough fluff you would find most armies have allied together.
In the Blood Angel series by James Swallow you have the Blood Knights allied with the Blood Angels, and while they are a sucessor chapter they are also renegade so would that be a case for BA + CSM?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah, it would. I like the Knights of Blood, they're pretty epic.
Better than the Lamenters.

[lattd]

What about a guard army with a wolf lord squad of grey hunters and the aquilla landing pad to make up the story in the SW codex where system lords wanted to arrest the grey hunters for not standing down but helped thousands of civilians get off the planet instead of being eaten by tyranids.

[Wolfshade]

Lamenters with their stable geneseed and no DC. Worst of all you have to paint them yellow

[DrLove42]

Thanks to new GW paints yellow is no where near as hard to do.

Base coat in Ceramite White. 1 layer of Yriel Yellow. Agrax wash. Yriel yellow on top, leaving crevices. Highlight at will. Then you could uset the Lamenters glaze to make it really pop.

[Wolfshade]

I know, my old Yellow rage is no longer founded

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Lamenters with their stable geneseed and no DC. Worst of all you have to paint them yellow

It's the fact that they refused to sent the Blood Angels any aid, and the Knights of Blood sent EVERYONE.

[Wolfshade]

I think they sent people, but got lost along the way, such is the lament of the Lamenter to have the worst luck in the imperium.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They also get angry and depressed when they bleed. They're like Emos.

[Wolfshade]

Emos in yellow?!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Okay then, Scene kids. They're *like* Emos, but they like colour. :p

[Wolfshade]

Now you've lost me. Does this mean I am too old?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Probably. They're basically colourful Emos.

[Wolfshade]

To quote Kat "I don't wanna live"

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Scene girls are usually fairly attractive to be fair.

[Wolfshade]

I'm all confused now.
So what music do these erm scene-it people like emo or something more prog rock esque

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Emo music, Bring Me The Horizon seems to be a hit with them. Mainly because their lead singer is, as they describe it, "fit".
Anything that's whiney.

[DeluX]

OMG Nurgle Orks? I gotta find this stuff!

I was also thinking of the Changeling. Say the Changeling killed the Warboss and then copied his form. Then started ordering the Orks around causing all kinds of trouble lol. If I were to ally my Orks and Daemons together, I would probaly make that special Changeling acting as a Warboss lol.

I would only do ally stuff if I can make it awesomely fluffy. I am not a WAAC gamer at all, hell Tyranids are my main army and that would say enough about that!
Presented for your enjoyment, Nurgle Orks:
http://dlx-design.com/images/NurgleOrks.jpg

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

That is cool!

[Wolfshade]

It is but I prefer the stealerorks

[guitarangry]

Presented for your enjoyment, Nurgle Orks:
http://dlx-design.com/images/NurgleOrks.jpg

That makes me want to convert some nurgle orks now and i have too much to do already.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

It is but I prefer the stealerorks

Que?

[Wolfshade]

http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/images/greenstealerz/greenstealerz-shootaz-1.jpg

And more: http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/category/blog/hybridz/

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh! Cool.

[Wolfshade]

Very

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

A common theme nowadays is Necrorks, Orks with Necrons all over them.

[Wolfshade]

In a flayed one style?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Hahahaha! Unfortunately not.

[Wolfshade]

Is this like your assassin/farseer thing because if so I am not sure I want to know

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

"assassin/farseer"?
No, it's Orks looting Necron tech.

[Wolfshade]

That sounds better, url?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Um... Games Workshop Shrewsbury?

The manager is doing an army, his friend is doing one, and that friend was inspired by somewhere else.
I don't do web searches. :D

[Wolfshade]

I do, I use it in lieu of knowing things/meeting people

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ah, I'm a very social person. :D

[Wolfshade]

I've noticed

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

That's because you stalk me Wolf. :D

[Defenestratus]

I wonder what the percentage of posts by TDA and Wolfshade are simple 1-liners that have barely any consideration to the topic at hand?

You two really need to go find a 40k chat room where you can trade good natured jabs at each other.

Just sayin'

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Cheers mate!

[Wolfshade]

I wonder what the percentage of posts by TDA and Wolfshade are simple 1-liners that have barely any consideration to the topic at hand?

You two really need to go find a 40k chat room where you can trade good natured jabs at each other.

Just sayin'

The trouble is that they start on topic and as natural with any conversation move on from the original gambit, now whether that is off topic or that the topic has changed as the posts continue is where the question lies