What has 6th Ed fixed?

[Mr Mystery]

Perhaps a little early for this kind of thread, but here goes anyway.

For those unaware, the 8th Edition Fantasy rulebook did a great deal to re-balance the game overall. New mechanics and rules helped to tone down the nastier armies, whilst buffing up the more tired armies. The result, even before the new raft of Army Books began hitting was a much better game overall, with less of a power gap between certain books.

And it would seem they are attempting the same thing with 6th Edition 40k.

I'm going to approach these changes based on the complaints I've most often read about online, so it's far from exhaustive, and remember that at all times this is just my opinion.

So, off we go.

1. Feel No Pain. Confirmed as dropping down to 5+. Phew. This became fairly prevalent in 5th Edition, whether through psychic powers, or mass upgrades to squads. To those armies with wide access to FnP, players often depended on it, leading to a great amount of frustration from opponents. Whilst not exactly game breaking, it could mean players weren't suitably punished for silly deployment etc.

2. Overwatch. It's about time if you ask me! I've never really played HTH heavy armies, prefering my short ranged firefights. Having played through the ignominy of 3rd Edition, where a squad in combat basically stayed in combat, through the various toning downs, this is the iceing on the cake for me. No matter what my opponent tries, my guns can now give it some dakka, which is nice.

3. Fear. Barely hinted at in White Dwarf, it's noted that all Daemon units cause it. Exact mechanic remains unknown though. But regardless, it's about bloody time. In Fantasy, when a Greater Daemon, or something akin to a Hive Tyrant comes barrelling at your troops, there's a fair chance they'll head for the hills. But ever since 3rd Edition, even a lowly conscript has simply given a round of applause as some colossal horror devours the command squad. Psychology has been sorely missed in 40k, and it's good to see it back!

4. The different valued objectives. HALLELUJAH! Now THAT is giving the game tactial depth. I loved 5th Editions victory conditions when it came out, but sadly as all objective were equal, my tactics stagnated. Deploy my objective on homesoil, set up a bunker unit. Sally forth to drive my opponent off his. Rinse and repeat game after game. Now though, I have to try to second guess my opponent, and he has to guess what I'm up to. Base sitting may not work all that well now, and it's possible the most valuable objective will be somewhat exposed. Small change to the rules, big impact on my tactical nous.

Now all these things I see as being overtly positive. It's hard for me to go into much more depth as so many of the changes remain largely unquantified! Now, over to you. Ideally, as there are many threads discussing concerns, try to stick to what you see as positive changes in this one!

[oldone]

By the looks of things off the interwebz i think they have balanced vehicles now with infantry, as hull points make it fairly easy to kill them but they are need for speed (transport) as the game seems to be mostly* based on objectives again which is brilliant.
Next there is cover, I'm an ork/ tyranids player and even I'll admit it was terrible having the whole 4+ blanket, what little <AP3 my armies could muster did little as they cover system generally stop the wounds from going through to various marines. but at the same time ruins are still 4+ so they have found a balance between 4th ed where (personally) cover favored shooty armies and 5th ed where (personally) it favored combaty armies.
Apart from that, as i haven't read the book probably a lot more :D

[fuzzbuket]

it also fixed casualty shenannigins! woooo

[Xenith]

If you multicharge, you no longer get the +1 A bonus. Unsure on that one. I guess no more multicharge shenanigans, as you will get overwatched by multiple units.

My Vanguard are upset at the overwatch rule.

[Black Hydra]

I think I'll still multi assault with my Wraiths. They are tough enough to weather a bunch of shots and can drop models in base contact to I1. My full strength Wraith squad took IG and Tau fire and they only dropped 2 of them with 4 Wraiths left, one wound each. I went on to multi assault the command squad and main crisis suit squad, getting rid of both of them in 3 turns. Totally worth it.

And overwatch is only BS1. Not much to be afraid of to be honest. As for that psyker power that allows one to fire at regular BS during overwatch, Tau don't get psykers so it's alright for now.

Hullpoints still intrigue me. There's a higher chance now of getting Crew Shaken (apparently) but hullpoints are stripped whenever you get anything else other than wrecked or destroyed (at least that's the consensus). I think Crew Shaken shouldn't count towards that. It would mean just glance the vehicle to death. I think that's why they removed Immobilized as well since that stacked with having all the weapons destroyed and wrecked a vehicle.

[gcsmith]

I think I'll still multi assault with my Wraiths. They are tough enough to weather a bunch of shots and can drop models in base contact to I1. My full strength Wraith squad took IG and Tau fire and they only dropped 2 of them with 4 Wraiths left, one wound each. I went on to multi assault the command squad and main crisis suit squad, getting rid of both of them in 3 turns. Totally worth it.

And overwatch is only BS1. Not much to be afraid of to be honest. As for that psyker power that allows one to fire at regular BS during overwatch, Tau don't get psykers so it's alright for now.

Hullpoints still intrigue me. There's a higher chance now of getting Crew Shaken (apparently) but hullpoints are stripped whenever you get anything else other than wrecked or destroyed (at least that's the consensus). I think Crew Shaken shouldn't count towards that. It would mean just glance the vehicle to death. I think that's why they removed Immobilized as well since that stacked with having all the weapons destroyed and wrecked a vehicle.

Oh, Trust me, you will see tau armies with a farseer, plus it makes complete fluff sense.

[Levitas]

A Dark Eldar point of view:

Having a boat load of wyches I want to see how combat works, as at this point just getting there looks dangerous. I'm assuming combat is nastier with the use of AP and that they can use their poison? Otherwise they get hit hard by overwatch and a nerf to FNP.

While having marines with FNP is hard to deal with, DE Wyches really need it to stand a chance in the marine environment. To get boltered on the way into combat is something they will have to dance with, even at BS 1 your going to loose a fair few models.

[PhatCat]

As a DE player, I've about seen enough to know it's going to suck. We effectively have no saves left... AP5 chainswords, cover down to 5+, FNP down to 5+. Open-topped still +1 to damage chart (and all those melta guns now +2, even if the chart was nerfed downwards). Can't move more than 6" and disembark. Random assault distances (though maybe fleet offsets...?)

But hey, now we get a 5+ Jink save... which we already had. And 4+ flat-out save! Which we already had. And our AP2 weapons destroy vehicles on a 5+! Which we already had (and sucks). Really, the only thing I've seen that might help DE are haywire glances getting possibly nastier (expect a FAQ nerf).

So, we have to use the broken-*** allies rules to hope to compete? And this isn't a blatant money ploy by GW to get us to buy more crap to cover up their lousy rules writing? Shocking.

[Black Hydra]

Oh, Trust me, you will see tau armies with a farseer, plus it makes complete fluff sense.

I did forget to take allies into account. Well that solves that.

Also that random charging really nerfs Orks and Tyranids. Here's why. Fleet now only allows you to reroll one D6 from the 2D6 for charging. Unless Fleet also allows the unit to assault after running, it means most assault armies won't have range. Sure the assault distance could potentially be 12" but really can we always count on that happening? And what about Thraka's special Fleet rules? Will one die always be 6 of the 2D6?

Overall that's one of those mediocre changes to the game.

[Black Hydra]

But hey, now we get a 5+ Jink save... which we already had.

Actually it seems only Dark Angels get Jink.

[Smotku]

Perhaps a little early for this kind of thread, but here goes anyway.

For those unaware, the 8th Edition Fantasy rulebook did a great deal to re-balance the game overall. New mechanics and rules helped to tone down the nastier armies, whilst buffing up the more tired armies. The result, even before the new raft of Army Books began hitting was a much better game overall, with less of a power gap between certain books.

And it would seem they are attempting the same thing with 6th Edition 40k.

!

I have to disagree with you. The changes to fanatsy didnt neccesarily balance the game. it made it more random which takes the skill out of the game. It dnt balance the armies it just changed which armies are more powerful and nerfed others some it made worse. For example the magic phase made high elves stupid broken and orks and goblins are pathetic. Dwarves got better but vampire counts and chaos warriors got worse. The net effect is that it did change things but by making it more random it made it more fun forv some and less fun for others.

The things that you listed are for the most part changes that are not from fantasy and I am not necessarily opposed to them. Most of them dont seem to come from Fantasy so i guess that is why the dont seem offensive to me.

In responce to your intent i didnt see 5th ed as really broken. So cant really see anything as needing fixed rules wise. The probelem is within the codices not the rules. i dont see the rules changing that.

[Anggul]

Oh, Trust me, you will see tau armies with a farseer, plus it makes complete fluff sense.

Eldar powers specify 'Friendly Eldar units'. Fear not.

[Black Hydra]

Eldar powers specify 'Friendly Eldar units'. Fear not.

Yeah but what about the rulebook powers? They won't say that.

[Anggul]

Yeah but what about the rulebook powers? They won't say that.

True, but we'll have to wait and see what the rules are on them.

[Black Hydra]

@Anggul: Agreed. I'm pretty sure there will be rulebook powers that help out friendly units in general. It only makes sense if they are allowing allies. But like you said it's a wait and see game. I definitely wouldn't mind my Chaos Primaris Psyker having abilities that help out my CSM.

[PalinMoonstride]

Eldar powers specify 'Friendly Eldar units'. Fear not.

Can't wait to guide my venom spam!

[Demonus]

Im curious to see what "beast" will mean in the new rules. As it stands, Scarabs can move 6, fleet d6 then charge 12". With charges now being random, that is a huge hit to their strategy unless beasts now charge 3d6 or something. Hmm, what averages 12"? =P

[Defenestratus]

wrong thread. WOOPS

[Wildcard]

Dunno what AP value does the GK force weapons have, but if they are like power weapons, and with it AP3 (dunno if its been yet written in stone if they are ap2 or 3) But this would atleast make a little difference on Sv2+ units (MegaNobs, Many HQs, Terminators etc..)

Given that GK were the most whined army of the 5th, it's weird to see very little talk about how 6th will nerf / balance etc. them...

If it's still no charge from Deep Strike, then most assault DSers will be sorely beaten. (first a round of standing still getting shot at, and then when charging, that overwatch/snapfire whatever it is that lets you shoot assaulting units)
GK Assassin (culexus?) that DS 3" away from enemy surely could use the possibility to engage that unit at that turn..

Dunno if its fixing, or making things less diverse, but it seems that many forces now have the chance to include "Hammerhand" and "Quicksilver" type psychic powers in their lists via Psykers.. (although random, but still)

I haven't seen how to allocation of multi-wound models work, but i am hoping there is no longer possibility to play sheningans with multiple loadout combinations.

Transports should be popping open more likely now, which is good imo. It has been so, that if you lose your anti-armor weapons, enemy can just kite you in their transports. Now it would seem your footslogging close combat units will have a chance to throw some dice a bit earlier in the game..

[bfmusashi]

I'm full expecting force weapons will need to be activated to get the power weapon AP, which would make GK worse than their Daemon Hunters iteration.

[Black Hydra]

Dudes and dudettes, 2 incredible standouts from today's Faeit article:

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/06/q-and-with-rulebook-more-goodness.html#more

Fleet doesn't allow the models to run and assault anymore. You can choose either one then reroll for the one you chose. Tyranid and Ork players everywhere weep! Damn you Nerfhammer!

On the other hand, Khorne Bezerkers just got really good. Rage is apparently only +2 attacks not including the running at nearest target. Wow I wish most assault armies had that.

So shooting is in and assaults out. The changes to Fleet really messes things up unless newer versions to assault codices or FAQ's change that. But somehow I don't think GW has the Xenos' interests as top priority.

[Wildcard]

I'm full expecting force weapons will need to be activated to get the power weapon AP, which would make GK worse than their Daemon Hunters iteration.

Then GK are truly going to be needing some other kind of buff. One attack base with normal weapon and str5, or one attack base with normal str and ap3..

And the point costs are there still..

And no charge after DS.. boohoo..

I hope i am wrong, and please correct me if thats the case, but currently it would seem that there are no new goodness for the GK at all.
- Stormravens have to start from the reserve: Nice, there goes my main anti-armor platforms (with many points worth of transported units inside). And 2x glan and its gone! (a feat not too hard to accomplish).
- Power weapons AP3: How to hell are we going to be able to kill those HQ units now with Sv2+? With one attack base..
- Stormbolters: Nothing buff yet to be revealed for assault weapons.
- Psilencers: Still probably the most useless weapon upgrade in the whole game (out of the 3 possible..).
- No charge from DS: Full Terminator lists are gonna get shot over and over again before getting into combat.. (some sort of interceptor rules, first round of enemy fireing, overwatch etc..)
- MC Doubling its str and halving the attacks..: NDK, 3attacks with a sword that re-roll hits, wounds and armor penes at str6-7. Truly not worth splitting attacks most likely to 1 just to get one hit with str 10... And if rumours stand true and these get no jump infantry attack bonus then there is nothing good coming towards NDKs. (and the NDK hammer is already str 10, i4, so unless you cant get str20, its really not that important to use "smash attack"..) :)
- GK HQs & many units paying extra for rules they hardly use / benefit from (all things daemon etc) And Still cannot exchange their psychic skill (aside from hammerhand) to one found from the corebook..
- Allies: Only imperial army that cannot be friends with any imperial army.. so no buffing & boosting, well, anyone.. (I've only seen one chart, so i may be wrong tho on this one..)

[Mr Mystery]

From all the QQing about Grey Knights, I don't think too many people will be upset they lose some oomph.

To be honest, I think Overwatch is being a smidge overrated. Sure it's nice, and has some potential to blunt assaults, I see it as being slightly more concillatory than a buff.

[Wildcard]

To be honest, I think Overwatch is being a smidge overrated. Sure it's nice, and has some potential to blunt assaults, I see it as being slightly more concillatory than a buff.

It all depends on the numbers.. If all you ever gonna get is one shot, or your whole army relies on pinpoint accuracy, then it is not that much..
But say, orks, that naturally hit only with 5+, its gonna be a huge boost to them imo, since its basically already incorporated into their stats (or weapon stats that is).
Also, Squad of lootas would be hitting on 5+ if they were stationary, now they can move and hit on 6'es, theres really not that much difference to say a Marine will be hitting normally on a 3+ and now he would need 6 to hit..

Also, theres a lot of difference if you charge on 5 man tactical squad (or even 10man). They will be rapid firing you for 9 shots if sergeant has pistol (19 if its 10man squad). Now, normally its 'balanced' so that these guys will need 3+ to hit on a str4 weapon. now its 6'es.
Compared to a 10man loota squad that normally hit on 5+. Now you charge and they overwatch shoot you: up to 30 str7 shots that hit you on a 6+..

See the difference :)

[Mr Mystery]

It all depends on the numbers.. If all you ever gonna get is one shot, or your whole army relies on pinpoint accuracy, then it is not that much..
But say, orks, that naturally hit only with 5+, its gonna be a huge boost to them imo, since its basically already incorporated into their stats (or weapon stats that is).
Also, Squad of lootas would be hitting on 5+ if they were stationary, now they can move and hit on 6'es, theres really not that much difference to say a Marine will be hitting normally on a 3+ and now he would need 6 to hit..

Also, theres a lot of difference if you charge on 5 man tactical squad (or even 10man). They will be rapid firing you for 9 shots if sergeant has pistol (19 if its 10man squad). Now, normally its 'balanced' so that these guys will need 3+ to hit on a str4 weapon. now its 6'es.
Compared to a 10man loota squad that normally hit on 5+. Now you charge and they overwatch shoot you: up to 30 str7 shots that hit you on a 6+..

See the difference :)

Oh it can be dirty....but it's still not as horrendous as some might fear. I'd imagine there's a limitation as with stand and shoot in Fantasy. If you charge from 2" away, it's not terribly likely that you'll be able to Overwatch (just flapping my gums! I don't know about the exact rules). Plus it seems Heavy Weapons won't be able to do it all. Depending on how you read White Dwarf...

[GrogDaTyrant]

Ork players everywhere weep!

I don't think I ever even bothered to use The-Waaagh... Oh wait, yes I did. I used it once as a joke to point out how limited it was for an "army-wide special rule", just before unleashing a tidal wave of shooting dice with my warbikes. Though to be honest, I never used it when playing my footsloggers either. Unleashing more shots with the Fearless shoota horde was far more important than running into combat and risking No Retreat biting me in the arse.

[Black Hydra]

I don't think I ever even bothered to use The-Waaagh... Oh wait, yes I did. I used it once as a joke to point out how limited it was for an "army-wide special rule", just before unleashing a tidal wave of shooting dice with my warbikes. Though to be honest, I never used it when playing my footsloggers either. Unleashing more shots with the Fearless shoota horde was far more important than running into combat and risking No Retreat biting me in the arse.

I don't think everyone plays like that. WAAAGH! is pretty good. But I agree that many Orks shooting is very scary as well.

[Demonus]

2 quick things:

why does Rage make Khorne Berserkers good? Did they gain it when i wasnt looking?

i dont forsee having to activate force weapons to make them ap3. force weapons have always already been PW in 40k,

[Black Hydra]

why does Rage make Khorne Berserkers good? Did they gain it when i wasnt looking?

Because it apparently doesn't force your models to run into a gunline anymore. Now it just gives them +2 attacks. But we don't know anything for sure yet.

[Gir]

Because it apparently doesn't force your models to run into a gunline anymore. Now it just gives them +2 attacks. But we don't know anything for sure yet.

The point was Khorne Beserkers don't have rage.

[Black Hydra]

The point was Khorne Beserkers don't have rage.

I mixed up a previous CSM rumor. They said they gain Rage if they fail an Ld test. I don't plan on using Bezerkers so I didn't read up on their rules. It always seemed appropriate for them to have Rage.

I guess now it makes sense as to why they're rumored to be getting it.

[terminus]

Can't wait to guide my venom spam!

Eldar and Dark Eldar aren't brothers in arms, so their powers don't affect each other, whether from codex or rule book.

[eldargal]

Hm, we were told they were brothers in arms earlier.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Still so much confliction in something that should be cemented by now.

[eldargal]

This chart from GW:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143872&d=1340660153
Has been confirmed as being inthe BRB by someone with the rulebook on reddit, and it shows Dark Eldar as brothers in arms with Eldar. So either the reddit source is wrong or terminus.

[Wolfshade]

I recognise that chart where is it from? Doubles tournament?

[eldargal]

Yup, one of the recent GW tournaments. I'm not saying terminus is wrong, but we have several sources claiming to have the rulebook, one of which confirms that this chart is the same as the Allies listed in the BRB. It could be it is they that do not have the book and are wrong. Point is even now things are very much up in the air regarding the 6th ed rules.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They put up the rules for the doubles tourney last night, someone may wish to look into that for insight.