View Full Version : Help with Dark Eldar.
Veggieburrger
09-24-2009, 07:03 PM
I've only recently begun playing 40k. My collection which until today, was little more than a rhino and some marines, now consists of a TON of dark eldar stuff. In fact more stuff than I know what to do with. Now, I know that Dark Eldar is suppose to be a harder army to play, but I don't really mind the learning curve, but no one, and I mean NO one at my local stores plays them...I need help from someone with expreince.
Here's what I know I've got off the top of my head.
-Two Archons.
-Dracon.
- a bagillion and two incubi
- The blades guy
- Incubi Master (three I think)
-a dosen or so wyches
-Four Raiders
-60 ish warriors, plently of all special and heavy weapons
-10 scorges.
-Ravager
-Two Talos.
-Maybe some jet bikes.
-Tons of other models, I haven't sorted through yet.
Its a little overwhelming,so please BOLS help unwhelm me :D
Dunadan
09-24-2009, 07:28 PM
My 2 cents:
-2 HQs w/ Incubi in Raiders(&blades guy)=ultra killy assault unit
-2 Raider Squads w/ Splinter Cannon, Blaster, & Dark Lances on Raiders=fast scoring unit
-Ravagers w/ 3x Disintegrators rock
-Taloi are somewhat slow and fragile(for an MC)
-Scourges w/ Splinter Cannon=fragile, but if you can play them right, they'll deal some nice damage(40 Str 4 shots at BS 4, yes please).
I prefer to leave Dark Lances on the vehicles, and give the Warriors Splinter Cannons & Blasters(since Shredders are expensive, and Splinter Cannons provide good anti-infantry fire already).
I'm sure some of the more experienced DE players will be on their way shortly, but heres my thoughts as I've had a little bit of experience with, and against them.
10 man warrior squads on foot with two dark lances a piece seem to be the standard troop unit found in most DE armies. For a hundred points you get a versatile unit whose job is to mainly stay back and shoot down armor. They almost always make their points back in every game. Two seems to be a staple of many army configurations. I prefer no other upgrades to keep them cheap and expendable, but investments in other options may be useful.
Scourges are IMHO one of the more lacking units in the DE army. Their expensive, and will go down to almost any sort of fire directed at them. Larger unit sizes do not seem to help. With dark lances being heavy 1, i would lean towards SC's if you take them at all. Minimum unit size also helps IMHO. Hug cover and keep them mobile and hunt down squads that stray to far from their comrades.
Since you have a few raiders and a lot of warriors, you might as well make a coupe of raider squads to make a mechanized element to your army. Keeping the raiders cheap with dark lances is always a good idea. Raider squads would do well with SC's as they will probably be moving a bit once they hit the ground, and being able to fire always is a good thing. If you plan on leaving them inside the raider all game then a second dark lance may be very feasible. Sybarites are good if you plan to go assaulting with your squad. If so, then some sort of agoniser or punisher may be almost mandatory. I personally like to take two raider squads in my 1500 pt army, each with a SC and a shredder. The raider is armed with a DL and I like trophy racks and a horrorfex just for fun. I usually do not have a sybarite but if I do, he has a agoniser and combat drugs or just the plain terrorfex and nothing else. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.
Your wyches might do well as a mechanised unit in a raider, or maybe stashed as a hidden webway portal unit, to be delivered via one of the raider squads. Either way, a sybarite is almost mandatory as well as some sort of fancy stick to taunt her opponents with. Drug dispencer is always a good option IMO. I usually opt for the webway portal way as it affords me a bigger squad of wyches. Not only that, but it allows them to get to the enemy unmolested. This is priceless as they can even assault the turn they arrive. Just be careful, because if the bearer of the portal is slain before it is activated, then all units held within are automatically lost. This is why I only tend to keep the one big wych squad in this manner, so in the off chance that I do lose the portal, it won't necessarily cost me the game.
Your HQ unit is truly a scary thing indeed. DE lords are some of the toughest characters in the game to beat in hth as they almost always strike first, and have a nasty bag of tricks that they can pull on their opponent. My standard foot lord mounted on raider is routinely equipped with a shadow field in the off chance that my opponent gets to attack back, a drug dispencer, as well as the punisher/tormentor helm combo. Its a bit uncreative, but it definitely works. Incubi retinue seems to be a favorable option for you as you seem to have more than enough models for it. They are expensive, but are just so good at killing meq. Drazzar is also a good choice in case your lord runs up against more than even he can handle. Keep some of the arcane gear in mind ( archangel of pain) as some of these unique items are some of the best in the game. Causing a pinning test with a modifier is rare trait that most armies canot boast excluding the tau. DE have one of the only effective ways to create a "pinning army". I'll explain this in the very end.
Reaver jetbikes are one of the most all around useful units in the DE army. With a succubus they can be slightly above average in hth with their wych drugs as well as the succubus's special weapon (agoniser?) If given a terrorfex, they can be quite the nuisance. Keeping them mobile to make the most of their invulnerable save is key, as well as timing their attack with the rest of your army instead of ranging too far ahead too early, and getting cut up by mass fire.
As for heavy support, 99% of DE players swear by their 3 ravagers with disintegrators. Since you have one and two talos, I say go for those. When you think about it , the talos can be quite useful. It has decent toughness instead of an armor value, but unfortunately moves like infantry. Just try to get it into hth with all due haste and see what it can do against vehicles. And don't forget that since it moves like infantry, it can also run!
IMO, you kinda lucked out. Virtually all the models you have listed as owning are pretty solid choices game-wise. Hellions are probably the worst unit in the army, as well as mandrakes. Grotesques may be a useful meat shield, but don't expect much else out of them. Going back to the pinning thing, keep this in mind. DE are one of the only army who can not only prduce the pinning tests with modifiers, but also possess the speed and cunning to exploit it. Try pinning a tough non fearless unit. If successful, you can now ignore that unit for a whole turn and concentrate on the rest of his army.
Apologies if anyone's still awake out there reading this, it really did sound shorter in my head...
Toloran
09-25-2009, 03:16 PM
Some of this is a repeat of the other posts but it is worth confirming:
Wyches are one of the best assault units in the game, point for point even without upgrades. Armed with wyche weapons and a succubus wielding an agonizer, they are truely something to fear. Unlike other assault oriented units, they aren't particularly lethal (in a models killed perspective). Instead, they are exceptionally difficult to kill in assault and tend to get just enough kills on the opponent to force a leadership test. The trick with them is to either A) kill enemies in cover or B) finish off enemies during your opponents assault phase. This way, you avoid having them shot to tiny little pieces. Anyone who has dealt with them before (but not a lot) tend to mark them as being a higher kill priority then they really deserve. Use that to your advantage.
DE HQs are one of the scariest assaults units in the game. Unlike wyches, they have power and toughness. Achons armed with a Shadow Field, combat drugs, and a punisher can go toe to toe with almost any non-vehicle in the game and come out unscathed. Incubi are in a similar boat since they are basic warriors but with power armor and power weapons. Being faster then most other units allows them to wipe out most enemies before they get to swing back. Also, unlike wyches, they aren't nearly as vulnerable to shooting. As for Incubi masters, I personally don't bother with them most of the time unless it is a really high point game (I generally play <2000pts).
As for DE HQ weapons, the big point of contention is having them take an Agonizer + Pistol or a Punisher + Tormenter Helm. Against average MEQs, they're functionally identical but the latter costs more. Against other things, it varies. Agonizers are good against Monstrous Creatures (and can even punch a vehicle if you are lucky) and don't need any additional wargear to be awesome. Punishers don't have the same reliability as Agonizers, but aren't limited to being 4+ to wound against everything. Combined with combat drugs, you can easily get strength 6 (or 7 with that one other piece of wargear, i forget what it's called) which allows you to wound marines on a 2+ and punch through the back armor of vehicles (Unlike the agonizer, this can even penetrate).
Raiders are the bread and butter of your army. Getting more is rarely a bad thing. For relatively cheap, you get a fast mode of transportation, mobile cover (when it inevitably dies), and a tank killer weapon (Dark Lance). If you plan on a unit assaulting (ever), always put it in a Raider. WWP based armies you can get away without having as many but otherwise you want a lot of raiders. Although I personally tend to run them as bare-bones as possible, Night Shields and Horrorfexes deserve special mention. Raider are effectively flying cardboard boxes: They have the double penalty of being open-topped and armor 10 all around. Being a skimmer helps but not enough usually. Anything that limits how often they are shot is a Good Thing. That is where the Night Shield comes in. It might not seem like a huge penalty to your opponents shooting, but it is the difference between being able to get your guys in place and being shot down out of range. Horrofexes are one of the better pinning weapons in the game: Although they don't deal damage (and replace shooting your dark lance that turn), they also can potentially inflict the largest penalty to pinning tests (Tau can do better but it requires a lot of markerlights).
Silver
09-26-2009, 11:59 PM
i know this tacic might not be enough to take the scourges points back but using a squad with splinter rifles to flank an infantry squad, lay down their firepower and take out (hopefully half) the enemy. then use a terrorfex from the champion to force a pinning test. the squad should then have a MASSIVE loss in leadership and be pinned. if an opposing squad wants to shoot them next turn they will have to shoot through their own people and the scourges therefore get a cover save, hopefully deterring them.
next turn... repeat
will it work???
also, be careful not to be overconfident in the wyches. they're good, but one squad should never be put toe to toe with a horde. they are most effective when taking out dedicated assault squads, units with power weapons or (my favourite) terminators. timing is essential. you want to kill an enemy unit in the second round of combat to avoid being caught in the open.
btw, how did you get strengh 7 for the lord???
~Silver
angelblade
09-29-2009, 09:55 PM
dark eldar players are few and far between and experienced tournament dark eldar players are like golden horse ****, but in the darkest parts of the internet there are some dedicated DE sites with allot of good tactics. be careful though some of those sites have been abandoned and offer only 3rd ed and 4th ed tactics (there hosts probably got bored waiting for a new dex and moved on to a diff army) there's a a yahoo group called commograh and they generally give good advice on how to use things. the one bonuses of having a 10 year old dex is we have discovered every possible way to make a powerful list imaginable seriously i personally can quote any line from the book and its page number im currently on my 8th copy of the thing :cool:
Veggieburrger
10-01-2009, 09:02 PM
Thanks for the helps so far guys,
I was wondering if there was away to get scourges to work effecticly, I really like the models. And don't have enough Ravagers to fill out my heavy support yet. (and the talos is ugly as sin)
DarkLink
10-01-2009, 09:43 PM
One of the wargear upgrades lords can take can get them up to str 7. Basically, once they've killed a model, they gain +1str for the rest of the game. You have to stack it with all those other str bonus wargear.
Not sure how useful scourges will be. Don't give them Dark Lances. You can get much cheaper dark lances elsewhere, and the dark lances prevent you from taking advantage of your movment.
On the other hand, their splinter cannons are too expensive for such a fragile unit. About the only thing I could think of was to use them as an assault unit, but Dark Eldar have much better assault units elsewhere.
crazy_irish
10-03-2009, 07:43 AM
Well you should list up all the "wargear" für S7.
So what you need is:
1 Lord S3
1 Punisher +1S
1 Jetbike +1S
1 KD +1S
1 Animus Vitae +1S
and yes, since the 5te Edition FAQ we are allowed to take two handed weapons on a jetbike.
I also have to confirm some facts on wyches. They realy are good in taking hits, if you are able to save.
The realy are only good against elite CC troops. eg, the fight between them and a normal SM squad looks the same as a fight between them and a SM Assault squad.
So pic your fights, so that the wyches benefit as much as possible from there super-hero-powers XD
Using scourges point effectiv is not possible...
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