Why Eldar players tend to be cranky.

[eldargal]

We used to have hte fastest army, now Blood Angels are as fast and Necrons are faster.
Our army used to be the oldest, most advanced army then the Necrons were introduced, taking over a good chunk of our backstory and doing everything better than us.
We used to have exclusive access to the Webway, now the Necrons have limited access and the Imperium managed to map the sodding thing.
Our armies technology is so superior to everyone elses it has lower strength, AP at a higher cost than the Imperium equivalent.
We won the Eye of Terror campaign and our reward was our most venerable special character being killed off.
We performed very well in the Medusa V campaign and our reward is our head Autarch commiting suicide by bad guy.
Every man and his spacedog kills an avatar at some point.
Our armiesprecious civilian population gets sent to war wearing papier mache armour and peashooters.
Howling Banshees had an exclusive ability to gain I10 on the charge, now all jump infantry will be getting it.
Armed with unmatched precognisant abilities, unrivalled technology and undetectable movement through the webway in most of our background our commanders just charge into enemy guns like Orks.

Additions:

The best psykers in the world, now outdone by Wolves, Angels, Knights .....
And gifted with incredible foresight and inteligence and yet seem to walk into ambushes all the time
Supposed to have the best airforce ever, yet most of the plastic fliers can do everything ours can, but better






I'm sure I'm missing some.:p So the next time you wonder 'Why is that eldar player such a cranky barstud?' you can look back on this thread and think 'thank god I play Space Marines instead'.:rolleyes:

(Disclaimer: this is a tongue in cheek, slightly hyperbolic look at all the ills that have befallen the Eldar as an army in the past ten years or so. It is not a whine, nor an excuse for SM/Necron hate)

[DrLove42]

You missed the best psykers in the world, now outdone by Wolves, Angels, Knights .....

And gifted with incredible foresight and inteligence and yet seem to walk into ambushes all the time

Supposed to have the best airforce ever, yet most of the plastic fliers can do everything ours can, but better

[eldargal]

I actually started writing up the bit about psykers, went back to reword it then forgot and just hit submit.:rolleyes:

[Deadlift]

I thought Eldar players were cranky because they made the wrongful assumption that the Eldar models were based somewhat aesthetically on ancient Egypt, which has been proven time and again to actually be the Necrons who have the egyptian vibe in space thing going in much better style.

3.....2......1.......commence verbal bombardment :p

[SotonShades]

I just think you guys don't know how to have fun :P



The Eldar seriosuly do deserve some love, not unlike the treatment their dark kin got. Let's hope the good pointy ears don't have to wait quite so long though! I'd hate to see one of the primary races of 40k relegated quite that far! Knowing how the studio works though, they won't even finalise a realease slot until they are 100% happy, especially with an army that really should be a fine sword to the hammer of the IG or chainsword of the Marines; when used with skill and care, utterly leathal and able to root out the weakspot in any foe. Used clumsilly, they shatter.

Let's face it, with the way the fluff for each army has been turned up to 11, the Eldar should be getting something so seriously juicy we will think Draigo waltzing through the warp and perfoming surgical graffiti sounds tame and run of the mill...

[Levitas]

I weep the tears of isha daily, but...

Its not all bad though. The path is a cool way to try out different jobs, like being an artist and phoenix lord in the same lifetime(s) Then Dark ELdar have the best parties, which in a pretty gloomy world is something of a plus. Then you have our war machines, like the titans, which are the best looking things around. We have the prettiest armies, and the most talented painters often gravitate towards our beauty. When we win games we win with flair, style and pure sex. Not boring square boxes that just rush at you. :D

So revel in the pointy eared arrogance of it all. :cool:

[Wildeybeast]

Cue people whining about how Tau are so much worse off than Eldar....

[Deadlift]

I weep the tears of isha daily, but...

Its not all bad though. The path is a cool way to try out different jobs, like being an artist and phoenix lord in the same lifetime(s) Then Dark ELdar have the best parties, which in a pretty gloomy world is something of a plus. Then you have our war machines, like the titans, which are the best looking things around. We have the prettiest armies, and the most talented painters often gravitate towards our beauty. When we win games we win with flair, style and pure sex. Not boring square boxes that just rush at you. :D

So revel in the pointy eared arrogance of it all. :cool:

Eldar and their dark cousins are without doubt a painters army. Harlequins being the obvious stand out ( cool models ) models. Despite the androgynous look which I can't stand, some of the models in the Eldar range still look very nice. Dire avengers being some of the nicest looking troop choices still.

[Archon]

We used to have hte fastest army, now Blood Angels are as fast and Necrons are faster.

Dark Eldar:cool:


Every man and his spacedog kills an avatar at some point.

Same goes for greater Demons, Terrorfexes, Dreadknights etc.



Our armiesprecious civilian population gets sent to war wearing papier mache armour and peashooters.

Dark Eldar?



Howling Banshees had an exclusive ability to gain I10 on the charge, now all jump infantry will be getting it.

Isn´t it "allways strike first", feels like I11?

As for Psykers, take a look at poor Ahriman and compare him to a 100 pts. SW-Runepriest:) but wait till the next codex and the pointy ears will shine again;)


On the positive side: Who is able to outflank with a torrent of a torrent of S6 shots? Who can cruse along with inv. save that is rerollable? Who has a spearthing, that can hurt a vehicle like a lascannon? Who has a holofield, that sucks up a lot of firepower and can bring the shooter on the edge of insanity? Who has a special char. that walks (at times) an near every table with a pointy ear on it ... even if he counts as dead?

[Mr Mystery]

And this is what you get for 2nd Edition!

Seriously!

[Happosai]

Eldar players are cranky cuz I play Necrons and love it :-P

[Panxer]

Bew hew hew :D

Tau are crankierer... wa wa.

[DrLove42]

Based on hull points, holofields are about to become a liabiltity that can be done without.

Some 70-120 points i can suddenly spend on other things

[Mr.Pickelz]

I'm with ya Eldargal, but you forgot to mention Harlequins getting left behind. :(

[Houghten]

Same goes for greater Demons, Terrorfexes, Dreadknights etc.

Not on the table; in the fluff.

[sangrail777]

Well said Eldargirl, I never heard it put that out like that but at face value you have a solid point and I for one will stop making fun of Eldar players.

[Insert_nickname_here]

I think it has been long enough since the eye of terror campaign for the glorious second coming of Eldrad. If Draigo can survive in the warp, just imagine what Eldrad could do.

(If you're reading this, come on GW, you know it would be cool!)

[Mr Mystery]

Based on hull points, holofields are about to become a liabiltity that can be done without.

Some 70-120 points i can suddenly spend on other things

Ditto Living Metal. And Quantam Shielding. And Symbiotic Repair. Not to mention Fabricator Array....

First three of those are included in base cost.....

Hence I'm calling shenanigans on the current rumourage.

[addamsfamily36]

I think it has been long enough since the eye of terror campaign for the glorious second coming of Eldrad. If Draigo can survive in the warp, just imagine what Eldrad could do.

(If you're reading this, come on GW, you know it would be cool!)

Second this.

I mean ive heard two versions of Eldrads demise. 1) he eternally fights a demon at the heart of a blackstone fortress and 2) he thought he was going to fight a demon but it ended up being the god slannesh and he was obliterated into the warp.

Either way, if he;s in the warp id be willing to say he could survive if draigo can.

[Mr.Pickelz]

It would be interesting to see Draigo and Eldrad partner up in the warp.:D:D

[SonicPara]

Tau players deserve to be in the same group as us Eldar players; Tau and Eldar are some of the only armies where you can do everything right and still suffer a crushing defeat because herp derp missile launchers or OP magic dreadnoughts.

With that said, Eldar are far better off than Tau and I still think Tau needs the rework first.

[gwensdad]

I'm sure I'm missing some.:p So the next time you wonder 'Why is that eldar player such a cranky barstud?' you can look back on this thread and think 'thank god I play Space Marines instead'.:rolleyes:

(Disclaimer: this is a tongue in cheek, slightly hyperbolic look at all the ills that have befallen the Eldar as an army in the past ten years or so. It is not a whine, nor an excuse for SM/Necron hate)

You forgot lack of grenades for most of the troops (the number one complaint I hear from local Eldar players.)

[The AKH]

You forgot lack of grenades for most of the troops (the number one complaint I hear from local Eldar players.)

Not to mention Striking Scorpions bereft of Fleet due to their "heavy armour".

[Panxer]

tau players deserve to be in the same group as us eldar players; tau and eldar are some of the only armies where you can do everything right and still suffer a crushing defeat because herp derp missile launchers or op magic dreadnoughts.

With that said, eldar are far better off than tau and i still think tau needs the rework first.

high five!!! Ermegurd!! Clerp clerps!

[eldargal]

The Tau codex is certainly in worse shape, but Tau haven't been GWs shipping boy for the past thirteen years either.:)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Stuff like Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders are going to be mean now! And Corsairs! Gods! I'm going to see if I can make a bent Eldar army just using the new powers. FLAMPANZERS AHOY!

[eldargal]

Well I'm not sure Swooping Hawks will be that much improved. They have no CC abilities to speak of and their lasguns are rubbish. Not sure how the rumoured changes boost them much. Same for Warp Spiders really. Unless there are some advantages to ranged jump troops that I've missed.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Power Blades are written in the codex as ignoring armour, not listed as power weapons, as such not affected by power weapon AP nerf.

[eldargal]

Fairly sure the power blade description calls them power weapons, plus only the exarch can have them so, what, 4 PW attacks on the charge without grenades isn't that great. Certainly if you expect to be doing a lot of hit and run attacks with them the power blades will help but I wouldn't say they are much improved.

[fuzzbuket]

well everythings now wraithguard :D

EAT MY 2+ LASER CANNON OF DEATH (toodahloo dragio)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Fairly sure the power blade description calls them power weapons, plus only the exarch can have them so, what, 4 PW attacks on the charge without grenades isn't that great. Certainly if you expect to be doing a lot of hit and run attacks with them the power blades will help but I wouldn't say they are much improved.

I think it just says adds +1 attack and ignores armour.
You are also forgetting that they can shoot before they charge.

[bfmusashi]

I really like the idea of Draigo and Eldrad meeting up in the warp, but not because Eldrad should survive because he's the 'best.*' It would mean Eldrad's transcended the basest natures of his race.
Slaanesh is the doom of the Eldar and a part of them. To be able to deny the base nature of his people (the pursuit of pleasure and perfection) so thoroughly as to resist absorption into the gestalt psykic child of his species but to survive in a realm where everything can, will, and never happens when he can't help but look at all possible outcomes would make Eldrad a bit more than the tabletop could contain. I mean, he's seen EVERYTHING and has retained his sanity. He can lead his people from their fate or to the best use of their doom. He might even be able to skip the safety of using runes and use the full psykic might of the Eldar in the blunt manner humans do.
The big human psykers (Librarians all) all overcame burdens or achieved tasks previously thought impossible, there's no reason Eldrad shouldn't be able to find a way to escape Slaanesh.**


*Or because I'm fairly certain Draigo is a protagonist in 40k Zelda and Eldrad would wait in a cave to tell him "It's dangerous to go alone."
** And if people don't like it there's the big retcon button of Tzeench/The Deciever did it.

[mikethefish]

I realize that this thread is largely done in jest, but it truly is hard for me to have very much sympathy for Eldar players. When your army's theme is "we do everything the best - PLUS we are dying off and filled with angst"...well that delves just a little too far into "sparkle vampire" territory for my tastes. Seriously the entire Eldar army is like the Twilight Saga for 40k (in attitude)

Plus they all wear stupid looking hats. Honestly, how much sympathy am i supposed to feel for them? ;-)

[The AKH]

The Tau codex is certainly in worse shape, but Tau haven't been GWs shipping boy for the past thirteen years either.:)

And the Eldar are responsible for the Tau's development sooooo...

[Deadlift]

Seriously the entire Eldar army is like the Twilight Saga for 40k (in attitude)

Plus they all wear stupid looking hats. Honestly, how much sympathy am i supposed to feel for them? ;-)

This made me chuckle, bravo Mr Fish.

[eldargal]

Everyone wears silly hats, it's how you know its science fiction.:p
Seriously though, it isn't about sympathy more just some acknowledgement that Eldar players have had to put up with an awful lot in the past decade so when they get a bit cranky there are actual reasons for it, not just whining because the book is old or they can't beat everyone without trying (which would be bad).:)

I realize that this thread is largely done in jest, but it truly is hard for me to have very much sympathy for Eldar players. When your army's theme is "we do everything the best - PLUS we are dying off and filled with angst"...well that delves just a little too far into "sparkle vampire" territory for my tastes. Seriously the entire Eldar army is like the Twilight Saga for 40k (in attitude)

Plus they all wear stupid looking hats. Honestly, how much sympathy am i supposed to feel for them? ;-)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Poor, poor Eldar. They're a dying race that haven't yet realised that they are dying... *cough*squats*cough* :D

[Defenestratus]

More reasons to be angry:

1) Our Phoenix Lords have had a combined consciousness for thousands of years, yet get punked in the face by your generic SM captain with a fancy glove every time.

2) Our transports go vrooom vroom fast, but for whatever reason, the ramps all face backwards to let the cheddarheads out.

3) The super tough undead robots we put on the board - for some reason like to eat missile launchers to the face whenever possible.

[DrLove42]

It always annoyed me that a Wraithlords save is 3+.

Basically means that anything that can hurt them (with the exception of poison) relibaly will ignore their save. Melta guns, lascannons, missile launchers, lances all AP3 or better

They may as well not have a save.

Its the fact that the most treasured heirlooms of the eldar race, the Phoenix Lords and Wraith Constructs have no kind of Invuln save.

Yes a Dreadknight is less tough, but it has a 2+ armour save, 5 + invuln and more attacks. And no Wraithsight!

[eldargal]

We need a new codex is what it boils down to, the book was great when it came out but edition creep and a bit of codex creep has really neutered it. I'm actually quite hopeful, 8th edition has shown GW can write a new edition and army books to go with it that are all fairly well balanced against each other. Twelve months...

[Anggul]

Seriously the entire Eldar army is like the Twilight Saga for 40k (in attitude

Twilight is the single worst piece of literature our generation has been subjected to. Eldar get over their problems by seeing the future and chopping the problem in half without the whiny rubbish.

Eldar are far cooler.

Also their war god is made of lava and win.


I agree Eldargal, almost all of the current fluff involving the Eldar makes no sense at all. It's not that the Eldar can't be beaten, but the fluff where they are beaten (which is most of it) never makes any sense. They always do stupid things and lose where they shouldn't, rather than just being out-fought straight and simple, which is how you beat Eldar. It's not easy, but it's how you beat them. You aren't going to out-manoeuvre them, especially as they can see the future, so it comes down to the actual fighting, where they're strong but by no means unbeatable.

[eldargal]

Eldar really aren't emo at all certainly. If you read the fluff they experience emotions far more strongly than humans, the Path system helps mellow them out, it doesn't make them emo. The old Dark Eldar were far more emo then Craftworlders, now they aren't emo either.

Actually the battle where the Eldar lose at the end in the Necron codex was quite well done in that it was Eldar arrogance that undid their earlier victories, I thought the Eldar were portrayed very well in general. But yes there are some really terrible depictions of Eldar fighting. Most of the SM books from Black Library are guilty of it and one of the worst examples from GW proper would be the battle in the 5th ed C:SM. Warp Spiders being ambushed by Scouts and Thunderhawks dogfighting with Nightwings and the Eldar in general jsut throwing themselves at an entrenched Space Marine position.:(

[Deadlift]

Maybe be the Eldar are going to get the squat (eaten by nids) treatment :eek:

With the Tau being the new poster boy xeno army. :p when their codex comes 1st.

[Defenestratus]

I donno EG,

I nearly tossed Path of the Warrior away because I couldn't deal with the first half where he was basically so emo that he couldn't operate in society anymore.

I understand that certain units can't be reflected in the game like they are in the fluff.... but I still think the Avatar is underwhelming.

I also think that the codex, when it came out, was above average but not stellar. Certainly we were happy with the options we got, like the tempest launcher (I don't care what people say about it, I still love it) but it was also one of those books that went the way of "less is more" ... CSM, Eldar DA. The trifecta of purely yawn-worthy books IMO.

[eldargal]

Well, Korlandril was emo at times that is true, but that was him rather than Eldar in general. He was trying to get his hands on Thiriannas spirit stones, got jealous of his friend then threw a mighty wobbla when she gave him the 'I just want to be friends' speech.:rolleyes: It was the whole extreme emotions thing that Korlandril failed to control, most of the other Eldar were fairly moderate in that regard.

The Avatar, Phoenix Lords, Guardians, Storm Guardians, Swooping Hawks, Shining Spears, Support Platforms, Vypers and jetbikes are all underwhelming really.:)

[Anggul]

Actually the battle where the Eldar lose at the end in the Necron codex was quite well done in that it was Eldar arrogance that undid their earlier victories, I thought the Eldar were portrayed very well in general.

I liked how they were portrayed in the Necron book for the most part, but I would have to disagree with you on the ending. There's arrogance, then there's walking right into a blatant and obvious trap. If there is one thing that a Farseer is not, it is hasty. Also, even with a so-called 'hasty' rune-casting, all paths of fate going into the Necron labyrinth would obviously have pointed to: 'trap and death because it's a Necron labyrinth which he's blatantly leading you into, so how about now that his surface forces are pretty much gone you just annihilate the place with big weapons?'.


Other than that I too appreciated how Ward portrayed the Eldar.


I certainly never thought I'd see the day that I wrote that.

[GrogDaTyrant]

I still love it) but it was also one of those books that went the way of "less is more" ... CSM, Eldar DA. The trifecta of purely yawn-worthy books IMO.

Those 3 are not the only ones that should be added to the uninspiring 'less=more' codex list... Orks can certainly be added to there. The majority of Ork veteran players came to the same consensus about it upon it's release in late 4th... It was a 'good effort', but uninspiring and left much to be desired. Oddly enough it seems like the players who praise the Ork codex as being 'well-written' and 'a terrific improvement', either don't play Orks at all or never played them prior to this codex.

[Archon Charybdis]

I'm cranky because I had a conversation the other day kvetching about Eldar having access to half the powers IG do in the new rulebook. I said that I thought it was BS that the most powerful psykers in the galaxy had half the options, to which a friend responded "Pshaw, Eldar aren't the most powerful psykers in the galaxy, it's totally humans." :confused:

I posted the bit from the Ulthwe blurb, stating literally "Craftworld Ulthwe is home to the most powerful psykers in the galaxy." and also that "though not as powerful as Farseers, few psykers of the other races can match the psychic power of a Warlock." To which he responded "No no, that's old fluff, all the new fluff is that humans are way more powerful, like Mephiston and Malcador."

You've gotta be freakin' kidding me :mad:

[darth_papi76]

It seems that the Eldar never get to be as good as their fluff. Like Eldargal wrote, we just need a new codex. Perhaps the FAQ for 6th edition will be kind to us.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Well, Korlandril was emo at times that is true, but that was him rather than Eldar in general. He was trying to get his hands on Thiriannas spirit stones, got jealous of his friend then threw a mighty wobbla when she gave him the 'I just want to be friends' speech.:rolleyes: It was the whole extreme emotions thing that Korlandril failed to control, most of the other Eldar were fairly moderate in that regard.

Giggety.

[DrLove42]

I'm cranky because I had a conversation the other day kvetching about Eldar having access to half the powers IG do in the new rulebook. I said that I thought it was BS that the most powerful psykers in the galaxy had half the options, to which a friend responded "Pshaw, Eldar aren't the most powerful psykers in the galaxy, it's totally humans." :confused:

I posted the bit from the Ulthwe blurb, stating literally "Craftworld Ulthwe is home to the most powerful psykers in the galaxy." and also that "though not as powerful as Farseers, few psykers of the other races can match the psychic power of a Warlock." To which he responded "No no, that's old fluff, all the new fluff is that humans are way more powerful, like Mephiston and Malcador."

You've gotta be freakin' kidding me :mad:

*FACEPALM*

Oh dear...

One day. One day we will get a new book and the world will fear us!

[Wolfshade]

While I wound say that Malcador was the most powerful human psyker (after the Emporer) I think that there is a signifcant gap between the two.
The Eldar race are the most gifted psykers (or at least should be). I think the trouble is Farseers/Warlocks are at their best when buffing (doom/guide/fortune) rather than the Sm Libbys who are droping S10 ap1 blast templates which is a much more unsubtle approach. In that raw offensive approach people oftent hink libbys are all powerful.

[eldargal]

There is certainly a radical difference between how Eldar and human psykers manifest their abilities. Human psykers are much more about brute force, blasts of power, ripping themselves and their allies through the warp to teleport, things like that. Eldar ahave much greater understanding and finesse when it comes to using the warp.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I like Eldars. They are full of sexy tanks and armour.

Eldar should also have a "Sun Mage" equivalent, from the High Elf books, like a young, reckless kinda mage.

[Wolfshade]

Exactly, and I think that it is that finess which makes people think they are less powerful

[Thanatos_elNyx]

While I wound say that Malcador was the most powerful human psyker (after the Emporer)

***coughMagnusTheRedcough*** :p

[Deadlift]

***coughMagnusTheRedcough*** :p

not strictly human though was he ?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Magnus was a legend. Best Primarch ever.

[Wolfshade]

not strictly human though was he ?

Exactly!
Also not the best primarch ever, that would be Sanguinius, he had the best hair, wings and didn't have all angst against his dad for saying no and thus lead humanity to the brink of annhilation :p

[DrLove42]

See MAgnus is the best.

He may be a traitor, but he didn't want to be. He didn't take the power of chaos for control or domination, but did it to save his legion

He didn't choose to rebel, he almost let his chapter be destroyed when the Wolves attacked.

He even tried to warn his father.

He kills 2 Demonically POossessed Phantom Titans with his brain alone

Magnus is one of the best, and most wronged of all the Primarches.

He also stopped the Wolves getting successor chapters, which must be a good thing

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

See MAgnus is the best.

He may be a traitor, but he didn't want to be. He didn't take the power of chaos for control or domination, but did it to save his legion

He didn't choose to rebel, he almost let his chapter be destroyed when the Wolves attacked.

He even tried to warn his father.

He kills 2 Demonically POossessed Phantom Titans with his brain alone

Magnus is one of the best, and most wronged of all the Primarches.

He also stopped the Wolves getting successor chapters, which must be a good thing

I am in complete agreement.

[Thanatos_elNyx]

not strictly human though was he ?

Nor was the Emprah!


Exactly!
Also not the best primarch ever, that would be Sanguinius, he had the best hair, wings and didn't have all angst against his dad for saying no and thus lead humanity to the brink of annhilation :p
I'll give you wings, but hair? Have you seen Magnus!?
Magnus_the_Red.jpg (http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs27/f/2008/077/9/9/Magnus_the_Red_by_Noldofinve.jpg)

Coulda worked for Loreal.

As for Angst, the Blood Angels are like the Twilight Marines of 40k. :p

But I digress.

Eldar (Ulthwe) were my first army (though I don't have them anymore), and Thousand Sons my second.
As you can imagine, I am flabbergasted that neither of these armies are the best psykers in the game.

[Wolfshade]

He also stopped the Wolves getting successor chapters, which must be a good thing

Ok, you've got at least 1 good point ;)

But he did break the golden arch

Actually, this points to why I really love the BL stuff because you start to understand why they turned "traitor" and start to understand their motivations and feel sorry for them, like Alpharius being traitor just because that is the best solution in the "long game"

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

As opposed to Lion "on the fence" El'Jonson.

[Panxer]

Nope, Eldargirl's right. Eldar are the 'elder'..codex Snickersnort...

Apparently their dex came out in 2005, and the Tau came out in 06, but I still say that Tau are brokenerer...and probably need a new dex soonerer...

[DrLove42]

Other than the (super heavy debacle (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=23010)) i resurect this thread with;

An Eldar Pilots Lament

An Eldar pilotinga Nightwing is the fastest, most maneuverable and deadly aircraft there is in the entire 40K universe.

Close to invisble and capable of maneuvres that would be impossible for any other mortal to survive.

Back when fliers were introduced this was represented in 3 ways;

- We had a minimum move a turn of 18" as opposed to the 36" of other aircraft
- We had a 4+ permanant save as our shields and deflective computer programes protected and hid us
- Every weapon was AA mounted, as opposed ot most aircraft that had none or very few.

Now....

- Everything moves 18" minimum
- We do get the Vector Dancer rule to show our maneuverability...but so does the Vulture aircraft.
- We have a 5+ cover save (or a 3+ if we go to BS1 for a turn). Ignored by Hydras and lots of other things
- EVERY aircraft (including the ground attack aircraft like the Vendetta) gets anti-aircraft on every gun...

Good to see we have nothing unique now!

[Defenestratus]

Other than the (super heavy debacle (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=23010)) i resurect this thread with;

An Eldar Pilots Lament

An Eldar pilotinga Nightwing is the fastest, most maneuverable and deadly aircraft there is in the entire 40K universe.

Close to invisble and capable of maneuvres that would be impossible for any other mortal to survive.

Back when fliers were introduced this was represented in 3 ways;

- We had a minimum move a turn of 18" as opposed to the 36" of other aircraft
- We had a 4+ permanant save as our shields and deflective computer programes protected and hid us
- Every weapon was AA mounted, as opposed ot most aircraft that had none or very few.

Now....

- Everything moves 18" minimum
- We do get the Vector Dancer rule to show our maneuverability...but so does the Vulture aircraft.
- We have a 5+ cover save (or a 3+ if we go to BS1 for a turn). Ignored by Hydras and lots of other things
- EVERY aircraft (including the ground attack aircraft like the Vendetta) gets anti-aircraft on every gun...

Good to see we have nothing unique now!

I'm actually trying to think about what a nightwing does BETTER than any other flyer - and I cannot think of one.

I look forward to having my 145 pt nightwings get blown out of the sky by 120 pt vendettas.

[Gotthammer]

Nightwings can do two things better - suck and die :(

I was actually thinking of getting a Phoenix bomber for my Corsairs - not if these FAQs don't get changed.

[darth_papi76]

I think I'm beginning to get the hint from GW/FW..."we don't want anyone playing Eldar anymore."

[Gotthammer]

Maybe they're trying to align the game with the background and make Eldar a dying race on the tabletops too?

[Defenestratus]

Oh I forgot - in addition to being the suck compared to the imperial fliers, they are also AV10 - so yes... a squad of marines can shoot you from 24" away with bolters and the-soon-to-be-ubiquitous-plasmaguns and with a reasonable chance of glancing it enough to bring it down.

Thanks FW!

[DrLove42]

Forgot to mention that we have 2 less armour values on each facing when compared to the cheaper and more heavily armed Valk.

The Phoenix is better than a Nightwing...save survivability issues but has all the AA weapons, a better offensive output, the good missile battery and BS5 against ground targets

[JMichael]

The new FW book is all flyers and hopefully has new rules for the planes that are not covered in the FAQ

[DrLove42]

The Nightwing won't likely change. It was already changed in IA11, and that was only a year or so back

[Lemt]

As a NecrOn player I agree with pretty much everything, but most of all the Necrons using the Webway now.

I mean really, Eldar and Necrons had both unique ways of going around the galaxy, and now both got screwed because they have to use the same mechanism? Webway belongs to the Eldar, Necrons would sooner collapse it.

[Chronowraith]

- We have a 5+ cover save (or a 3+ if we go to BS1 for a turn). Ignored by Hydras and lots of other things


Overall the Nightwing isn't what it used to be, but it's not as bad as people are making it sound after only a cursory glance.

I disagree with the statement that the hydra causes the Nightwing to lose it's "shrouding" cover save.

According to the IG FAQ, Hydras only cause flyers to lose their "jink" save. Now according to the 6th BRB, Flyers only jink when the player declares they are evading. Just don't declare an evade against a hydra and you still have a 5+ cover save.

Against non-Hydra skyfire units this means that, when necessary, the Nightwing would be able to survive fusillades that might otherwise bring down sturdier flyers like valkyries and the like. Move flat-out with the Nightwing and you'll see a flyer with a 2+ cover save.

Regardless, this is a stop-gap measure. With the release of 6th edition it is clear that GW will be bringing flyers to every codex, it is just a matter of time before Eldar players see ours released.

[CrimsonTurkey]

I thought Eldar players were cranky because they made the wrongful assumption that the Eldar models were based somewhat aesthetically on ancient Egypt, which has been proven time and again to actually be the Necrons who have the egyptian vibe in space thing going in much better style.

3.....2......1.......commence verbal bombardment :p

I'd say Eldar are more art-deco than anything else. Just look at the falcon.

[Sainhann]

Yes we can be cranky.

Many years ago we were once the shining stars of 40k; we had a great mix of units and could put together some very strong lists just using Guardians.

But then the Guardians got nerfed into the ground. Their weapon range was cut in half, from 24" down to 12". At the same time the movement in the game was changed from 4" to 6" and a 6" assault range.

This was the end of Guardians ever taking a large part in any Eldar players army. Because due to their such short range weapons they were lucky if they got a single shot off before they were assaulted and killed.

But they were not the only Eldar unit that end up sitting in long forgetten cases.

Dark Reapers - at 35 points each far to expensive to field on the tabletop. They were once a main stay of a Eldar army. But today hardly anyone uses them.

Swooping Hawks - Also overprice and while they might have some use in 6th they apparently cannot assualt Flyers. No staying power and are easily killed.

Our vehicles are overpriced with the cheapest Falcon being 120 points. For that I could get 3 Rhinos for my Space Marines. But it really can't do anything with that other than carry 6 guys around. So you end up spending well over 150-170 points for a vehicle while a Space Marine could get several.

So what happen since the nerfing of the Eldar nearly a decade ago? Well most Eldar Players have went over to Mech Eldar led by Eldrad and use reserve tricks in order to win them games.

Well 6th Edition has basically killed that list.

Oh there was one good thing that happen to the Eldar since the nerfing. The Dire Avengers got an additional 6" back in range for their S. Catapults. The results they made a come back and are the standard Troop choice for Eldar players.

But we really do not have much in the way of troop choices; Dire Avengers, Rangers, Guardians & Guardian Jetbike Squadrons.

Rangers cost nearly twice as much as their Imperial counterparts for not much additional benefit.

Plus due to the limitation of just how many troops Choices you can have (minimum 2 & maximum 6) most Eldar players will usually go with the bare minimum 2 and some might go with 3 maybe 4 choices.

The reason it usually just not worth it taking more than that.

So the Eldar got nerfed and constained at the same time due to the Force Composition Chart coming along right after the nerfing.

So Eldar players had to become Min/Maxer's not by choice but because they needed to inorder to have chance at winning games.

So yes we have every right to be cranky and for those of us who started playing Eldar from their very first showing in White Dwarf 127 even more so.

Though my very first 40k army was Eldar Harlequins and we know what happen to them. At least they finally did make it back to the table and did not end up like the Squats. But GW has hosed over the Eldar.

Only time and a new Codex will tell if they will ever make it back to the level that they should be at.

[Archon Charybdis]

I just made a post to Forge World's facebook page and then copied that an email. I expressed my appreciation for fast FAQs, but then I laid out the reasons I thought these changes were bad for game balance and my personal enjoyment of the hobby. I capped it with the all important statement that these changes will prevent me from making future purchases from Forge World, like buying another Nightwing or buying a Revenant. Letting them know these changes will impact sales negatively is probably the most effective tool we angry Eldar players have.

[eldargal]

I've emailed them, I don't use Facebook. Hopefully this will get changed.

Even if the Nightwing is better off (which I doubt), Eldar titans now have no protection whasoever against destroyer weapons.

[rle68]

I think I'm beginning to get the hint from GW/FW..."we don't want anyone playing Eldar anymore."

Please do stop playing eldar.. ill keep doing it and doing very well.. FLYERS are not the end all be all

i took most of this in jest until this comment...."Seriously though, it isn't about sympathy more just some acknowledgement that Eldar players have had to put up with an awful lot in the past decade so when they get a bit cranky there are actual reasons for it..." scuse me? get over yourself already

my god your army still is a viable option if you just learned how to play it
you whine about all the psychers in the other armies yet you can butt cold stop them all from ever casting anything.. and yet you whine

you havent had a book in how long you waited half the time the orks and wolves and DE players did so shut up already (dark eldar got a book that was worse then the one before) and is even more so in 6th

templars are older then yours is and now they are unplayable.. eldar are still a very viable army in 6th and more so when the next dex is out templars wont have a dex for 3 years at the soonest so for 3 years an army i have played for 10 years will sit on the shelf as they are unplayable you get 0 sympathy from the rest of us

RUNES OF WARDING ... nuff said... and you whine about njal 3+ to negate your casting? hypocrites
oh yeah ghost helm.. STOP for the love of god stop whining about your psychic nerf.. your preaching to def ears

vibro cannons... end armor and flyers... a 50 point model that can kill any flyer in the game in 1 round.. i feel so sorry for you

wraithguard end armor and alot of other stuff
pathrfinders now have a valid purpose

wahhhhh we dont own the skies our... 4+ save nothing over str 8 1d6 super boost is gone now ill cry some purple panther tears for you..


maybe you should read the new rule set and adjust your armies like everyone one else has too

face it the eldar still are a major force they have to do it slightly different now oh boy.. ill actually feel sorry for you if they army is unplayable and un winnable but it isnt.. dont post a whining rant and claim its in jest it doesnt come across in jest and all it does is make those who play multiple armies laugh at you

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The Eldar players are just annoyed that they were outsmarted by Creed. :p

[Defenestratus]

Please do stop playing eldar.. ill keep doing it and doing very well.. FLYERS are not the end all be all

<snipping all the drivel>



...spoken as a person who has no effing clue what he's talking about.

Do you realize that out of all the things you listed, NONE of it can be considered a buff, but rather maintaining the status quo?

Runes of Wardng is just as effective as it always has been and I guarantee you that, thanks to worthless diatribes like yours, it will get nerfed in the next edition of the codex.

Its arguable as to whether vibrocannons even work on flyers - and they don't do anything better than they did already.

The only thing that are actually BETTER are pathfinders and rangers - but even that's arguable since cover saves as a whole have been nerfed.

The nightwing is a nothing more than a land speeder as far as resilience is concerned yet costs 145 pts. Since the save went from a 4++ to a 5+ cover save its value has dropped precipitously. Those of us that have flyers (I have three nightwings and a phoenix) and have enjoyed using them in the past, are all of a sudden wondering why we even take them when other things such as warp spiders, shining spears and hornets are much more attractive.

Alsothe fact that now in apoc, they are incredibly nerfed. When playing on our standard 12 foot wide table, they're going to be mostly worthless since they either have to risk deepstriking or come on from a table edge then spend 4 turns getting in range

My gaming group - which are usually a bunch of hard-***** when it comes to playing by the rules, have all agreed that the nerfs to the Eldar titan holofields are ridiculous and have agreed to play as it was in 5th until FW fixes the issue.

[Chronowraith]

The only thing that are actually BETTER are pathfinders and rangers - but even that's arguable since cover saves as a whole have been nerfed.


A little over-dramatic, don't you think?

The Avatar and lists based around him grew in power thanks to the loss of No Retreat.

Runes of Warding may work the exact same as previously but given the nerf to psychic defenses like the psychic hood, it is an amazing buy for its point value.

Phoenix Lords, while still lackluster overall, still managed to gain a boost due to the power weapon changes since they all have 2+ armor.

Fire Dragons are even better at hunting vehicles since they get +2 on the damage chart and can reroll their penetration rolls.

Artillery received a HUGE boost since they are T7, W2, and 3+ armor and thus far more survivable.

Jetbikes also gained a huge boost. A permanent toughness increase and not the stupid parenthesis crap like in previous editions is a huge boost. Turboboosting 36" is marvelous given that our jetbikes are scoring troops. A permanent 5+ cover save? Hell yes!

Warp Spiders gained a great deal since they can once again penetrate vehicles (not like they needed to with HP).

I could go on. So please, keep the melodramatic rants to yourself. I play Eldar, have played Eldar for 20 years, and 6th edition gave us some sizeable boosts over 5th editon (I'm talking about the main game, not apocalypse). Eldar have been in worse spots on the power totem pole before.

[rle68]

...spoken as a person who has no effing clue what he's talking about.

Do you realize that out of all the things you listed, NONE of it can be considered a buff, but rather maintaining the status quo?

Runes of Wardng is just as effective as it always has been and I guarantee you that, thanks to worthless diatribes like yours, it will get nerfed in the next edition of the codex.

Its arguable as to whether vibrocannons even work on flyers - and they don't do anything better than they did already.

The only thing that are actually BETTER are pathfinders and rangers - but even that's arguable since cover saves as a whole have been nerfed.

The nightwing is a nothing more than a land speeder as far as resilience is concerned yet costs 145 pts. Since the save went from a 4++ to a 5+ cover save its value has dropped precipitously. Those of us that have flyers (I have three nightwings and a phoenix) and have enjoyed using them in the past, are all of a sudden wondering why we even take them when other things such as warp spiders, shining spears and hornets are much more attractive.

Alsothe fact that now in apoc, they are incredibly nerfed. When playing on our standard 12 foot wide table, they're going to be mostly worthless since they either have to risk deepstriking or come on from a table edge then spend 4 turns getting in range

My gaming group - which are usually a bunch of hard-***** when it comes to playing by the rules, have all agreed that the nerfs to the Eldar titan holofields are ridiculous and have agreed to play as it was in 5th until FW fixes the issue.

i actually know more then you do obviously
vibro cannons do affect flyers there is no debate if you dont know that then you should stop playing as you have no idea at all what the fff you are talking about trying reading your own codex before you open your yap.

no one is speaking about bs apoc games... apoc itself means nothing in the scheme of 40k by itself competetive 40k play has 0 to do with apoc

ohhh wahhh we dont like the rules we wont play by them .. read all that i ever need to read from you go back to the sandbox but leave your ball well still play

[rle68]

A little over-dramatic, don't you think?

The Avatar and lists based around him grew in power thanks to the loss of No Retreat.

Runes of Warding may work the exact same as previously but given the nerf to psychic defenses like the psychic hood, it is an amazing buy for its point value.

Phoenix Lords, while still lackluster overall, still managed to gain a boost due to the power weapon changes since they all have 2+ armor.

Fire Dragons are even better at hunting vehicles since they get +2 on the damage chart and can reroll their penetration rolls.

Artillery received a HUGE boost since they are T7, W2, and 3+ armor and thus far more survivable.

Jetbikes also gained a huge boost. A permanent toughness increase and not the stupid parenthesis crap like in previous editions is a huge boost. Turboboosting 36" is marvelous given that our jetbikes are scoring troops. A permanent 5+ cover save? Hell yes!

Warp Spiders gained a great deal since they can once again penetrate vehicles (not like they needed to with HP).

I could go on. So please, keep the melodramatic rants to yourself. I play Eldar, have played Eldar for 20 years, and 6th edition gave us some sizeable boosts over 5th editon (I'm talking about the main game, not apocalypse). Eldar have been in worse spots on the power totem pole before.

Thank you well said finally a voice of sanity

[DarkLink]

I'm not overly optimistic for Eldar. I was initially pretty excited about the ally rules, since I have both Eldar and Sisters that I could ally with my Grey Knights, but Hull Points alone have hit Eldar pretty hard and Sisters are, well, Sisters, so that excitement has more or less died down. I just can't justify taking them, compared to the awesome GK units that are available.


i actually know more then you do obviously

He's got your grammar, punctuation, and spelling beat by about a decade of schooling, however. And while he may or may not be melodramatic about this, he's also completely correct that most of your points seem to ignore the fact that most of the 'buffs' you've mentioned are status quo, and you've ignored a number of nerfs eldar have gotten. Considering the massive flaws in your analysis of how several other armies will be affected by the changes 6th ed has brought, you really don't seem to know more than he does.

And, by the way, dismissing an argument with "well, I obviously know more about this than you do" without any justification whatsoever is not a solid counter argument. If you want anyone to take you seriously, you might want to consider that. Putting a minimal amount of effort into the quality of your writing helps as well.

[rle68]

I'm not overly optimistic for Eldar. I was initially pretty excited about the ally rules, since I have both Eldar and Sisters that I could ally with my Grey Knights, but Hull Points alone have hit Eldar pretty hard and Sisters are, well, Sisters, so that excitement has more or less died down. I just can't justify taking them, compared to the awesome GK units that are available.



He's got your grammar, punctuation, and spelling beat by about a decade of schooling, however. And while he may or may not be melodramatic about this, he's also completely correct that most of your points seem to ignore the fact that most of the 'buffs' you've mentioned are status quo, and you've ignored a number of nerfs eldar have gotten. Considering the massive flaws in your analysis of how several other armies will be affected by the changes 6th ed has brought, you really don't seem to know more than he does.

And, by the way, dismissing an argument with "well, I obviously know more about this than you do" without any justification whatsoever is not a solid counter argument. If you want anyone to take you seriously, you might want to consider that. Putting a minimal amount of effort into the quality of your writing helps as well.

posting about typing and offering nothing doesnt hellp your case either..i did make counter points

spec for spec eldar are every bit as winnable as any army out there and this woe is me rant doesnt hold water

point blank, i dont have to mention the nerfs the eldar got because they dont affect the game play of the army to the point they whine about we have a right to complain.. no they dont.. the army still is a viable winning dex.. the rules changes didnt change that

dont really care if you agree or not .. i have played more then fair amount of 40k with almost every army out there..

and for the nerfs oh noes wytch blades are 2d6 plus str 3 for armor pen now not str 9.. oh noes what r we gonna do .. uhmm singing spears anyone? still str 9... that didnt change

wave serpents lose the 4+ cover save.. the rest doesnt change not that life altering

pathfinders using ap1 shots now kill terminators alot easier same as before yes but being able to pick what ones i want to die is a major boost.. look out sir doesnt work when you shoot the melta gun in the 5 man squad..that boost is huge.. and its been overlooked by the ones complaining

as its been pointed out the status quo as you like to say didnt change for everything but what it does do now versus the new rules is major

[lattd]

Except for the fact marines have an effective range of 30 to hit with weapons that ignore eldar armour on most units, we have had some major nerf's i do believe that eldar players have overlooked the new psychic powers.

[Morbid]

I have probably 5k points worth of Eldar. Love them. Slay with them. 100% non-cranky nor butt-hurt. I even bought a 1500 points worth of DE to be a fluff enemy only to find out GW consider them brothers in arms. I've played them allies in a foot build and the out come is terrifying (for the enemy :P)!

Though I appreciate the humor and jabs, Eldar are far from bad. Yes their ages old codex is good for 1 build. And? Tau have a newer book than Eldar and still have no good builds :P.

Of coarse I have 7 armies total, so I guess I don't count.

P.S. the Avatar crushes now. Love it!

[Anggul]

Please do stop playing eldar.. ill keep doing it and doing very well.. FLYERS are not the end all be all

i took most of this in jest until this comment...."Seriously though, it isn't about sympathy more just some acknowledgement that Eldar players have had to put up with an awful lot in the past decade so when they get a bit cranky there are actual reasons for it..." scuse me? get over yourself already

my god your army still is a viable option if you just learned how to play it
you whine about all the psychers in the other armies yet you can butt cold stop them all from ever casting anything.. and yet you whine

you havent had a book in how long you waited half the time the orks and wolves and DE players did so shut up already (dark eldar got a book that was worse then the one before) and is even more so in 6th

templars are older then yours is and now they are unplayable.. eldar are still a very viable army in 6th and more so when the next dex is out templars wont have a dex for 3 years at the soonest so for 3 years an army i have played for 10 years will sit on the shelf as they are unplayable you get 0 sympathy from the rest of us

RUNES OF WARDING ... nuff said... and you whine about njal 3+ to negate your casting? hypocrites
oh yeah ghost helm.. STOP for the love of god stop whining about your psychic nerf.. your preaching to def ears

vibro cannons... end armor and flyers... a 50 point model that can kill any flyer in the game in 1 round.. i feel so sorry for you

wraithguard end armor and alot of other stuff
pathrfinders now have a valid purpose

wahhhhh we dont own the skies our... 4+ save nothing over str 8 1d6 super boost is gone now ill cry some purple panther tears for you..


maybe you should read the new rule set and adjust your armies like everyone one else has too

face it the eldar still are a major force they have to do it slightly different now oh boy.. ill actually feel sorry for you if they army is unplayable and un winnable but it isnt.. dont post a whining rant and claim its in jest it doesnt come across in jest and all it does is make those who play multiple armies laugh at you

While I agree that Eldar are now better than before and we should mostly be happy by the changes... pretty much everything you have said here is complete crap and doesn't validate the point at all.

There are good things to say against those who suggest that Eldar really, really suck, but these are none of them.

1. It IS a bigger deal for Eldar to have their powers stopped, as Eldar rely far, far more upon psychic powers than any other army. No, no, Grey Knights do not, Grey Knights do fine even without the powers, the powers are just a boost.

2. Wraithguard have always been good, but until they make a plastic kit, they're far too expensive.

3. Pathfinders are still stupidly over-priced.

4. Yes, yes it is stupid that the Eldar have crappy flyers compared to the Imperium when they're meant to be awesome in the air. This is simple fact which is undeniable.


I play multiple armies, and Eldar are just one of them. Yes, Eldar are still decent. The negative points that have been made about them, however, are still true and valid, and although they are usable, there are a lot of options which are terrible. Just because you can make a good army with them, doesn't mean they're good, as people want to play with the models they like, rather than the ones they have to use to make a decent list. So kindly stop being an obnoxious moron and actually consider what is being said and reply in a decent manner rather than coming across as a fool.

[Chronowraith]

I play multiple armies, and Eldar are just one of them. Yes, Eldar are still decent. The negative points that have been made about them, however, are still true and valid, and although they are usable, there are a lot of options which are terrible. Just because you can make a good army with them, doesn't mean they're good, as people want to play with the models they like, rather than the ones they have to use to make a decent list. So kindly stop being an obnoxious moron and actually consider what is being said and reply in a decent manner rather than coming across as a fool.

While I disagree with the way rle68 is framing his arguments I do feel he is correct on the state of the Eldar. I laid out many boosts in power in my post above and many of those are sizeable gains in power. The nerfs that hit the Eldar on the other hand, hit every race/faction in the 40k universe. You can't blame 6th edition for making changes that impacted the Eldar a little more severely than other races. We have a codex that was made for 4th Edition. It worked VERY well in 4th, it worked passably in 5th, it still works passably in 6th. On an anecdotal level, I've played 3 games of 6th edition and won all three so far (vs. Chaos, Space Marines, and Grey Knights).

People need to look at the army book and see what has improved, as there are quite a few items out there that have improved, and see how they can work those into their lists. Stop trying to use a 4th edition square peg in a 5th edition round hole. Put the toy down, take your square peg, and then see how it fits in the framework of 6th edition.

Do Eldar generals need to make adjustments? Aboslutely. At this rate the only armies that don't need anything more than fine adjustments are Grey Knights, who were horribly overpowered in 5th, and the Necrons who were written with a forward-looking nod towards 6th edition.

I run a Yme-Loc craftworld army that is extremely tank heavy. So far in 6th I have dropped most of my Wave Serpents as well as my howling banshees in favor of other troops more amenable to 6th edition.

[Archon Charybdis]

i do believe that eldar players have overlooked the new psychic powers.

The new powers are great if you're running a bike or footslogging Farseer, and don't care to buff any units inside transports. If you're like me and have generally run your Farseer in a Wave Serpent with Dire Avengers for a doom/guide bladestorm, you're stuck with the old powers to be able to ignore LOS.

[eldargal]

No, Eldar are not ok. They need a new book, that is the cause of most of the problems, but it doesn't change the fact that we have gone from having a variety of mech and foot builds viable to a few builds of foot viable only. I don't want to bloody play footdar, I don't give a **** that some units got buffed if I can't play the army the way I WANT TO! Our assault units are virtually useless because we can't get to the enemy without being shot to pieces, thanks to the changes to disembarkation. Our fragile vehicles that were reliant on holofields and energy shields to keep them alive can no logner do so, they will get glanced to death. Etc.

I'm sure if you want to run a wraithguard/pathfinder footdar list you will be thrilled. I don't want too, so I'm not.

I've taken Howling Banshees in EVERY game I've played in 17 years, because I love them. Now I'm expected to take wraithguard (old models which I dislike) or pathfinders to get the job done? Sod that, I'll just wait for a new codex.

LEt's make a list:

Avatar: Good for footdar, bad for mech still. Same
Farseers: Still great, boost against other psykers bar GK. Better
Seer Council: Still great, still hugely expensive. Much the same
Autarch: Still bad, Farseers can do reserve manipulation better. Worse
Dire Avengers: Still good, bladestorm on overwatch is nice. Same
Howling Banshees: Would be a good power armour killer if they could be delivered to the enemy intact (see Wave Serpent). Worse
Fire Dragons: Still great, can't do my favoured combo of Fire Dragons and Banshees anymore though (see wave serpent) Same
Striking Scorpions: Can't assault after infiltrating anymore, can't assault after disembarking. Worse.
Dark Reapers: Extremely expensive, limited utility. Same
Swooping Hawks: Can glance stuff to death in assault, can't assault after deep striking. Lucky to survive that long. Still bad. Same
Warp Spiders: Get a I10 strike in an assault, relatively pointless as they are a shooty unit. Still Ok. Same.
Shining Spears: Still ok, still highly expensive. More durable, laser lance worse than before (AP4 instead of ignores armour). Slightly worse.
Rangers/Pathfinders: Much better, still expensive, still not enough firepower to be relied on as a troops choice. Better
Guardians: Still terrible. Same
Vypers: Slightly boosted by jink and squadron rule changes. Still fragile and expensive with anything other than s-cannons or scatter lasers. Slightly better.
Falcon: Gains jink and ability to move 12" and fire two weapons. Remains overpriced, can be glanced to death more easily thanks to hull points. Holofields useless. Worse.
Fire Prism: Gains jink and ability to move 12" and fire two weapons. Holofields useless. Blast weapon does full S against partial hits now. Much the same/slightly better.
War Walers: AV10, 2 HP, even more fragile than before, still a cheap way of putting out a lot of S6 shots. Nor worthless, but still: Worse
Support Weapons: T7 2W, much, much better. Better
Wave Serpent: Gains jink and ability to move 12" and fire two weapons. Energy field virtually useless, still protects against high S weapons, gets glances to death easily, units can no longer assault after disembarking. Hugely expensive for what it does. Much worse, undermines mech lists almost completely.
Wraithguard: Still good, still expensive, still slow. Same.
Wraithlord: Boosted like all MCs. Better.
Harlequins: Possibly boosted if FAQ is accurate, still very expensive, still very fragile, still hard to deliver intact to the enemy. Much the same, perhaps slight boost due to importance of AP2 from rending.
Eldrad: Still great. Same
Yriel. Ignores saves, perhaps better than before as a result. Slightly better.
Phoenix Lords: Still need ++saves, still overpriced, slightly less vulnerable due to PW nerf. Same

So for me, judging by my playstyle we have 7/ Better, 11/12 Same and 7 worse, one being wave serpents which completely removed my ability to play the army the way I want too.

This doesn't take into account the severe nerfing most of our FW units have taken as well. If you are happy with teh way the army plays now, I'm very pleased for it. But don't go calling me a whiner just because I don't want to use units I don't like in a way I don't like to have a viable army. I'm with with edition adaptation, but there is a difference between a new paradigm and having most of the builds in a codex invalidated.

[Morbid]

No, Eldar are not ok. They need a new book, that is the cause of most of the problems, but it doesn't change the fact that we have gone from having a variety of mech and foot builds viable to a few builds of foot viable only. I don't want to bloody play footdar, I don't give a **** that some units got buffed if I can't play the army the way I WANT TO! Our assault units are virtually useless because we can't get to the enemy without being shot to pieces, thanks to the changes to disembarkation. Our fragile vehicles that were reliant on holofields and energy shields to keep them alive can no logner do so, they will get glanced to death. Etc.

I'm sure if you want to run a wraithguard/pathfinder footdar list you will be thrilled. I don't want too, so I'm not.

I've taken Howling Banshees in EVERY game I've played in 17 years, because I love them. Now I'm expected to take wraithguard (old models which I dislike) or pathfinders to get the job done? Sod that, I'll just wait for a new codex.

Sounds to me like you refuse to adapt. You are acting like no other armies suffer from the exact same issues Eldar do. If you have been playing for 17 years, you would know that rule changes make one need to change it up. I don't use Wraithguard in my footdar, but I could as I own 13 wraith models.

I still hear the banshee nerf and it was a bit of a hit but not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. If terrmies are a big deal to your footdar list, you ARE playing them wrong.

So you can cry for Eldar to magically have a new book in your hand tomorrow, or you can adapt and come out with a new strat that will leave people scratching their heads. Your call.

[eldargal]

There is a difference between adapting and no longer being able to use your favourite units in an army AT ALL.

I never mentioned termies. I seldom assaulted terminators with Banshees, not unless they had been well and truly softened up first. Banshees are useless in a mech list because they have to stand around for a whole turn being shot at/assaulted and then hoping their target is still in their threat range. The fact is I can't even get them near regular power armour without being shot to pieces first and then losing a couple more to Overwatch, largely due to the completely inescusable lack of assault vehicles and the change to disembarkation. This rule does affect Eldar more than most other armies because few other armies are so reliant on vehicles to get their assault troops into position ,and those that are tend to have the option for assault ramps or some such thing.


Yes, I could adapt. Or I could just accept that I can't play my army the way I want to and wait for a new book. Nothing about this changes the fact that thanks to changes in 6th the number of vialbe builds has dwindled.

Also, I'm not actually 'crying'. I'm just pointing out how badly the book has fared in the transition. What does piss me off, though, is patrnising little snots who think just because their build works anyone else whose doesn't is 'whining' or 'crying'.

Also, other armies have problems with 6th too, I never said they didn't. But that doesn't mean that Eldar don't either. It is entirely possible to discuss how a codex is affected both negatively and positively without referring to other codices. However, Eldar are in an unusually bad position in that they are an expensive, elite army that is no longer elite due to edition creep over two editions.

[Sainhann]

While I do agree with Eldargal in some aspects about the current Eldar Codex, I.E. units are over cost and the selection is not great in a few areas.

But if she has been playing Eldar for 17 years, which is just a few years short of when they were in White Dwarf 127, I.E. July 1990.

http://www.gamehobby.net/white_dwarf_magazine/white_dwarf_127.html

Then she would have played Footdar because that is all they really could do 22 years ago and even that had some major restrictions.

I should know because that was when I started playing them. Though they were actually my 2nd army. My first were Harlequins.

I have had to rearrange my Guardians along with several of my other units as well.

I had to drop my converted Heavy Weapons Guardians because the squads went to Support Platforms, I have lost the use of nearly half my Guardians because they are armed with Las Guns. Oh and these are not easy to convert over to Shuriken Catapults due to them being metal.

Oh and at the same time my Guardians who did have Shuriken Catapults got their range cut in half. Oh and my Harleguins became completely illegal.

So I know GW track record with the Eldar and that record has been nothing but nerfing the hell out of them.

So now we have 6th Edition and yes Mech Eldar got hit hard. But so did every other armies vehicles.

The new Codex is still months away and I am not sure just what GW will do to the Eldar.

But until then we need to think and actually rethink just how we build our lists.

Yes, you can't not count on any vehicle lasting for long but that does not mean to cut every single vehicle out of your list.

As I have stated before a Squadron of War Walkers can be good if you use them well and protect them with cover. Also a Squadron of Vypers can also be useful and they can be had for 210 points and have 21 str 6 shots.

Yes you would need to take some Jet Bikes since that will give them some cover.

Dire Avengers are still good and should be ran in two Squads of 10 so that you can coordinate their Bladestorming ability.

I would even consider running a few squads of 20 Guardians and have some Banshees to back them up in case they get charged.

I know that nearly every single Eldar player just loves Eldrad but I would just run with a plain Farseer and use the points that you save for something else.

You want vehicles then get some Dark Eldar and use theirs. Buggers are far cheaper and you can assault from them. Oh, and Dark Eldar can get Harlequins just like we can.

I would also use Rangers though would only convert them to Pathfinders only with you have the points. I would go with Squads of 5 or 6 since that keeps their point cost down.

The days of the small Elite Mech Eldar army are over because if you try fielding an army of mostly vehicles expect them to get shot out of the sky by turn three.

Hell I would consider running some Imperial Guard as Allies since you can address several of the areas that our current Codex lacks.

But for 6th Edition I would be thinking Firepower and lots of it.

But whatever you do remember you are still playing an Eldar army and it does have its weaknesses.

But it can also be fast and powerful as well.

Until more Anti-Aircraft support come out many players will be running with Flyers and you need to adapt, like it or not.

[Morbid]

This rule does affect Eldar more than most other armies because few other armies are so reliant on vehicles to get their assault troops into position ,and those that are tend to have the option for assault ramps or some such thing.

Tell that to Chaos Berserker builds, oh and Ork speed freaks, Oh and Dark Eldar, Oh and GK, Oh wait and SW, Oh and don't forget Vanilla Marines, OH and tell that to Imperial Guard, OH and don't forget Necrons, OH and don't forget Blood Angels.

Notice a pattern? All lists that use transports we're hurt badly (okay Crons not as much :P). Somehow Eldar, whom had a few strong footdar builds in 5th, are more hurt than all the armies that I mentioned that also got badly hurt by the transport nerf?
Don't buy the hype.

Yes Eldar could use a new Codex, but so could my Dark Angels as well as Tau.

Play the build you want how you want it. If I lose with my footdar, I wont come online to cry for them to get buffed, I will shake my opponents hand and have a beer with them and talk about the game. Much better for scene imo.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

People, let's calm down. Let's not insult each other and start a fight. The Eldar have taken some very severe hits lately, and I agree with the points laid out by DrLove and eldargal, I was thinking of making an Eldar army until all of this came to light, now I'm not so sure. My army (Necrons) have won every game of 6th that I have played, because THEY WERE WRITTEN FOR IT. So please, stop with all of this madness.

[eldargal]

Cost of basic rhino: 35pts
Cost of basic Wave Serpent: 100points.

Toughness and save of basic SM unit: 4 3+
Toughness and save of basic eldar unit: 3 5+

Marines still have an assault vehicle, too. Eldar do not.

Necron Ghost Ark is no longer worth taking? Too bad, lucky for you you still get the Night Scythe that carries 50% more models and has an Assault 4 S7 cannon strapped to it for the same cost as a wave serpent with a popgun.

Raiders, in comparison, still get a 5++ can DE units can assault out of them. All for half the cost of a wave serpent. They were fragile before, they are fragile now. They are no worse than before. The same cannot be said of wave serpents.


The fact is a huge number of builds are invalidatd by 6th. That the same happens to other armies is irrelevent, I'm talking about the Eldar codex. Is it the end of the world? No. Is it going to be permanent? No. Has it happened? Yes. The end. I don't need some obnoxious little cretin telling me I'm 'crying' just for pointing out the bloody obvious, or telling me that other armies have suffered too. I know that, it doesn't change the fact Eldar have been hit hard.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Woah! Don't start on me, I was agreeing with you! :D Yes, Necrons are good, it's hard to make a bad army of them and Night Scythes are bent. Ghost Arks are good! They have all the hull points and can rip tanks to smithereens, I like them, I just don't like Warriors.

[eldargal]

That wasn't aimed at you, TDA.:)

Just to set things straight:

I'm not saying Eldar are terrible.
I'm not 'crying'.
I'm not 'whining'
I'm not denying other armies haven't been hit as well.
All I'm saying is that Eldar have taken a hit in 6th edition. That is all. The actual codex isn't too bad even so, it was old and clunky before, it was old and clunky now.
I am saying mechanised Eldar is terrible, and that is very frustrating as a mech Eldar player especially when many of our units don't function at all well without transports.

What is extremely irritating is that FW kicked us while we were down, but that is another issue.

[deaddice]

I can see why alot of people would be cringing with 6th since eldar have always been made with the idea of them being fragile on foot and in 6th every thing is easier to kill esp tanks.

As an eldar player who always preferred footdar i know its going to be up hill till a new codex comes out but until then the struggle will keep me engaged ( i enjoy challenges myself )

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh, here, have a voucher for a hug. Redeemable at any TDA outlet. :)

[SaganGree]

Well, at least one thing that changed is for the better... Swooping Hawks will be in all my builds now instead of Fire Dragons. Simply because its cheaper at 105 base to have 5 DS in on a vehicle and Haywire it to death (because you can throw grenades)... and for 27 points more you can stick in an exarch to yo-yo back if the DS screws up. Its still a suicide squade but its a cheaper replacement.

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it... I do believe that warp spiders got nerfed... in that with the changes to Rapid Fire, they only get 2 shots at 6".

As for a change that a friend of mine discussed... We were thinking of Urien and Eldrad leading a full 10 Grotesques with 2, 3 man Wracks in Venoms. And maybe a Voidraven with shattershards to help drop the flyers.

Admittedly... it's footdar... Though I may use Wave Serpents for my DA's, but it would be more for offense rather than the defense they used to play.

TBH... it really matters more what others are going to be playing... as Eldar cannot make a well rounded list as easily as others.

[Gwyidion]

You've got some ... misunderstandings with the rules.

First, swooping hawks can throw a single grenade in the shooting phase. So, a unit of 5 swooping hawks gets one grenade attack, and cannot assault.

second, warp spiders weapons are not rapid fire weapons. they are assault weapons.

[SaganGree]

Given, I am shaky on the grenade rules atm...

But while I know that Army Builder has Warp Spiders as Assault 2... can someone please confirm this via the dex?

I stand corrected... it is an assault 2 weapon.

[Sainhann]

Yup, only one model can throw a Grenade from each squad.

Now if they could get Grenade Launchers that could shoot Haywire Grenades Swooping Hawks would be in every Eldar list.

But I would disagree that Eldar cannot make a well balance list for 6th Edition, even with our the Current Codex.

150 points gets you a squadron of War Walkers that can put out 21 shots.

210 points gets you a squadron of Vyper that can do the same.

Dire Avengers are still good but should work in squads of two so that one can cover the other back or work with a squad of Guardians.

Yes Guardians still have the nerfed to hell Shuriken Catapult but with Overwatch I would take 40 shots.

Then add in a Close Combat Squad like Banshees or Harlequins so in case the Dire Avengers or Guardians do get charged you can counter charge.

Yes, we lost the ability to assault from our vehicles with this new Edition. But with Overwatch I am not sure that I would want to charge into anything with what we got to use assault Troops.

Remember our Eldar are only Toughless 3 so against most opponents you will be getting wounded on 3+, and then in some cases you will have a save.

Nope, I really think we need to go to fast hit & run strikes; I.E. Vypers with Jet Bike support and lots of fire power; I.E. War Walkers.

If we could field squadrons of Wraithlords but we can't.

I never like the Wave Serpent anyway because it does costs far to much. But you can still include one or two and put them on one flank.

Put nothing in them and get your opponent to waste stuff on them.

Eldar in 6th Edition will need to be thinking about being mobile and better be using the terrain to provide cover.

I also think that many Eldar players have come to depend on Eldrad far to much and should consider not using him.

Also consider playing at 2000 points or more as well since that opens up the 2nd Force Composition Chart. I was hoping that they would have gotten rid of it but that did not happen.

Plus maybe well will be able to get more than Dire Avengers as Troop choices in the new Codex but that is months away.

[eldargal]

Oh it is quite possible to put together a well balanced list, the problem is the units that will work in that list are severely limited. Few options, less variety, less viable builds = bad hit from 6th edition. It's hardly surprising, the codex was written for 4th edition afterall. But it's still a bit of a blow.

Overwatch isn't that bad for our assault troops either, against a squad of tactical Marines Banshees would lose 1.11 to the charge and kill five marines in response, Scorpions I forget, it may have been .89 or something. The issue is we can't get them in the position to do so without taking heavy casualties from enemy shooting or even be counter-assaulted.

[EldarVeteran]

40 overwatch shots with Guardians = 1 dead Marine. Not really going to do a lot. Now, assuming you moved into range on your turn before, then 3 dead previously. That leaves 6 assault Marines or equiv. At least Dire Avengers can back away.

As is typical with Eldar they need buffs from Avatar, Warlock or Farseer, making them into a tarpit unit (or better overwatch) whilst the combat specialists arrive to help.

I never used to run with Eldrad - now he is even more awesome and a must include for most (Footdar) games by flooding buffs from the Divination discipline.

[Archon Charybdis]

Tell that to Chaos Berserker builds, oh and Ork speed freaks, Oh and Dark Eldar, Oh and GK, Oh wait and SW, Oh and don't forget Vanilla Marines, OH and tell that to Imperial Guard, OH and don't forget Necrons, OH and don't forget Blood Angels.

Alright, of those armies you just mentioned, ONE is as adversely affected by the transport changes as Eldar, and thats Berserkers--and even they could take a Land Raider, or at least more reliably foot slog it with T4 and a 3+ save. Every other army you mentioned has plentiful access to Assault vehicles, jump packs, or just outright don't have dedicated assault units in transports. You can't even begin to make the argument Blood Angels are near as hurt by the fact they can't assault out of Rhinos as Eldar are by not being able to assault out of Serpents.

[Sainhann]

So we cannot assault from our over priced transport. The cheapest you can get one is 100 points for that and 5 more points a Space Marine player can get 3 Rhinos.

In 6th Edition Space Marine players are not going to stop taking Rhinos or Razorbacks because for 210 points they can get 6 Rhinos which means even with the easier to knock out vehicles in 6th you will still be spending several turns to knock out all 6 Rhinos.

What really hurts the Eldar is the fact that their main Infantry troops (I.E. Guardians) have the shortest Range weapon in the game.

Guardians - 12"
Imperial Guard - 24"
Space Marines - 24"
Tau - 30"
Chaos - 24"
Dark Eldar - 24"

Even their 2nd best Troops (I.E. Dire Avengers) only have a 18" range.

Then we get to the Force Composition Chart which limits the number of Troop choices to just "SIX" so this limits us. So what have Eldar players done? Simple they took the bare minimum two units and went to max out the Elite and Heavy Support.

Before this chart came into being we could & would field more than just six units of troops.

True if you can talk your opponent into a game of 2000 points of more you now have the ability to field 12 total Troop choices. But something tell me that Tournaments will be set to something like 1850.

So it will just be the 6 troop choices.

Which means that we will go with Dire Avengers and take more than 4 units tops and 2 if you give them a over price Wave Serpent.

But four units of Dire Avengers would be 588 points or around 31.78% of your total points at 1850. If you went with just the two and Wave Serpents the cheapest that will be 494 points or around 26.70% or your total points at 1850.

Now I think that if you try to go with a small model count in 6th Edition you can expect to lose most of your games since you will not be able to soak up the shooting that will be coming your way.

But trying to go horde or trying to put over 100 models on the table means going with Guardians and well they need to be in close in order to do anything.

But being within 12 inches with Guardians means that you can expect them to get charged and destroyed.

It is a nice Catch 22.

You need them but due to their short weapon range your opponent with sit 18-24" away and just shoot you.

If you get with 12" they will move closer and shoot you and then charge you.

This is what we get for clearing the tables of Space Marines back in 2nd Edition.

So now in 6th Edition the last real list that most Eldar Players use (MECH ELDAR) is now gone as well.

My Imperial Guard did not take a hit either did my Space Marines or Orks.

But Eldar could have a hard time of it until their new Codex comes out and lowers some of their units costs, or Guardians get a Force structure similar to Imperial Guard.

Where one Troop choice is made of several units and not just one.

2-5 Squads of 10-12 Guardians
1-2 Support Weapon Sections (I.E. 3 x Support Weapons)

But I doubt GW will do this.

[Iaipunk]

Overwatch in any form is the bane of eldar as well.
Stinks to have all your close combat specialists shot to death before they get close.

Eldar should return to being the specialist army.
I'd be really happy if they brought back the Craftworld lists.

[Sainhann]

Overwatch in any form is the bane of eldar as well.
Stinks to have all your close combat specialists shot to death before they get close.

Eldar should return to being the specialist army.
I'd be really happy if they brought back the Craftworld lists.

So true since for most of our units except for Storm Guardians we are looking at around 5-10 models max in our Assault units.

They are also only toughness three and since most assaults will happen within 7-9" away from your target you can expect to be on the receiving end of some Rapid Fire. Then their are the Flamer hits.

The only unit that we have that might with stand 15+ shots are Striking Scorpions due to their 3+ Armor Save.

But we all experience bad dice rolls or had seen some great dice rolls from our opponent.

You declare a charge and they roll five 6's out of 18 dice. All wound and then you fail to make 3 saves. So your squad of ten is now down to seven.

Plus you were charging into Terrain and you end up fighting at WS 1. Expect to lose some more.

I would not even consider charging anything with my Eldar unless I far outnumber them.

It is just better to just sit back and shoot them.

Far less risk on your unit.

Maybe if the Banshee's Mask stop the Overwatch fire from happening then maybe. But since Banshee's are just str 3 they just may have a problem wounding their target since against most opponents you will need to roll 5+.

So if we want to run an Assault type army then you will need to be thinking Harlequins.

But then you run into another major issue that Eldar have to deal with.

Point cost of our units.

[eldargal]

Banshees really aren't too badly affected by Overwatch, against Marines for example you will only be losing 1 Banshee on average and killing five in return. Against Tau or most other S4 shooting you might lose one or two Banshees but kill a lot more in return. Banshees remain a good unit for hunting down elite, small units (terminators aside). Harlequins would be very good against overwatch if you can charge them from some cover, with both stealth and shrouded and as it stands spotting range. The difficulty with both units is getting them in a position to assault a unit without losing most of the unit, without decent wave serpents we simply can't do that.

[Fueldrop]

Disclaimer: this may contain elements already covered upthread, as i had an uncharacteristic TL : DR moment. sorry in advance.

My eldar are staying in their foam until the new codex comes out. my favorite way of dealing with vehicles (witchblades) got hit so hard with the nerf bat that it's now in orbit (S9 against vehicles to strength 3 + 2d6. no more reliable anti-landraider for you!). haven't checked the new psyker rules to see if that makes up for it in my warlock-farseer heavy army, but even so...

banshees: power weapon nerf, plus boost for jump pack assault troops = lost their good points.

Dire avengers: i used to run with power weapon and shimmer shield (combined with defend and the squad held up termies while the exarch kicked *** and took names). that had me model most of them with what are now considered power spears... and most of the time those are AP4 :(. no more headhunting ugly terminators for me.

speaking of power spears and lances... shining spears are now an overpriced shooting unit. after all their strength on the charge just dropped from 6 to 4, while jink and skilled rider make them very survivable in a hit and run firefight. deadly charges... don't make me laugh.

to the best of my knowledge none of the eldar artillery platforms are capable of indirect fire... still (this could be wrong as i've only skimmed the new rules before giving up in despair and going back to my shadowrun.) this means they get all of the drawbacks of artillery with none of the benefits, and most have fairly short range to boot. (though this was a problem in the old edition too)

ok, i'm all better now. i'm just going to go off and cry about deepstriking landraiders landing on my skimmers...

on a brighter note, everyone have a nice day!

[Yarlen Fireblade]

Dire avengers: i used to run with power weapon and shimmer shield (combined with defend and the squad held up termies while the exarch kicked *** and took names). that had me model most of them with what are now considered power spears... and most of the time those are AP4 :(. no more headhunting ugly terminators for me.

speaking of power spears and lances... shining spears are now an overpriced shooting unit. after all their strength on the charge just dropped from 6 to 4, while jink and skilled rider make them very survivable in a hit and run firefight. deadly charges... don't make me laugh.


You have your points, but good news is Laser Lance is not a power weapon(spear). It IS in the rulebook and is str6 ap3 attacks on the charge, as good as it was before except for terminators. And I don´t see many terminators outriding and charging a 48" moving unit.

In the Dire Avenger sprue there´s a Diresword. You can model any of the power weapons you like for your DA exarch. I run it with a power axe and shimmershield, nobody can complain. Also, avengers have some very good combos. You can wrap a delicate eldar unit, bladestorm AND snap fire when the opponent has no other choice than assault your avengers.
Bladestorm prevents you from firing your next shooting phase, nothing about the opponents assault phase. That is 35+24 shuricat shots on a double catapult exarch you can dish. No horde units can withstand that.
Give them a try, Some Eldar units lost, others won marginally, but overall they´re playable. And this month we should get our rumored fighter/bomber with the secon flyer wave.

[Fueldrop]

You have your points, but good news is Laser Lance is not a power weapon(spear). It IS in the rulebook and is str6 ap3 attacks on the charge, as good as it was before except for terminators. And I don´t see many terminators outriding and charging a 48" moving unit.

In the Dire Avenger sprue there´s a Diresword. You can model any of the power weapons you like for your DA exarch. I run it with a power axe and shimmershield, nobody can complain. Also, avengers have some very good combos. You can wrap a delicate eldar unit, bladestorm AND snap fire when the opponent has no other choice than assault your avengers.
Bladestorm prevents you from firing your next shooting phase, nothing about the opponents assault phase. That is 35+24 shuricat shots on a double catapult exarch you can dish. No horde units can withstand that.
Give them a try, Some Eldar units lost, others won marginally, but overall they´re playable. And this month we should get our rumored fighter/bomber with the secon flyer wave.

thank holy terra that someone actually paid attention to the rulebook when reading it! you have made me much happier my friend. only problem is that i don't want to have to remodel all my exarchs choppy things just because the rules change. i may have to, but that doesn't mean i have to like it!

also i've been reading upthread. someone mentioned Wraithguard.
sorry, but Wraithguard are not a viable eldar build. why? $24 a model, that's why! (deadly serious... unfortunately. when it's almost cheaper to field the unit in points than it is in dollars, that unit stops being a viable cornerstone for your army [hordes not included])
yup, living in the middle of nowhere can really suck. Wraithguard become a viable option when i can afford to eat in the same month as buying a squad.

[Gwyidion]

thank holy terra that someone actually paid attention to the rulebook when reading it! you have made me much happier my friend. only problem is that i don't want to have to remodel all my exarchs choppy things just because the rules change. i may have to, but that doesn't mean i have to like it!

also i've been reading upthread. someone mentioned Wraithguard.
sorry, but Wraithguard are not a viable eldar build. why? $24 a model, that's why! (deadly serious... unfortunately. when it's almost cheaper to field the unit in points than it is in dollars, that unit stops being a viable cornerstone for your army [hordes not included])
yup, living in the middle of nowhere can really suck. Wraithguard become a viable option when i can afford to eat in the same month as buying a squad.

Price is not a reason for non-viability. I have 25 wraithguard. They work just fine.

[Yarlen Fireblade]

I see myself magnetising some of my power weapons. Luckily, That would only mean my Great Harlequin and Dire Avenger exarch... not much work.

[Defenestratus]

Price is not a reason for non-viability. I have 25 wraithguard. They work just fine.

+1